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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Feb 17, 2014 8:20:13 GMT
The biggest (and only) thing with modern football that really winds me up is how the FA, the clubs and the game itself is dead set on pricing out the vast majority of it's fan base.
There is so much money flowing around the football world that every club in the Premier League could financially survive quite easily if not a single fan turned up to watch a game over the entire season. This obviously isn't the case for smaller clubs who depend on fan revenue but for clubs like us, I dare say it's true. So just why is it that we're being asked to pay such ridiculous costs on almost constant basis over the course of 9 months?
It's greed, absolute greed. And it's annoying because it is so avoidable because it's so unnecessary.
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Post by mcf on Feb 17, 2014 8:39:15 GMT
How many of you lot have Sky?
That is where the majority of fans (in terms of revenue) now sit.
Add on the 'fans' that are prepared to pay from all over the globe and that is why we are here.
Anyone can watch 20/30 games of football a month on TV for about the same price of a solitary ticket to watch a game live.
To say it is not for the 'fans' anymore is ludicrous though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 9:41:41 GMT
The biggest (and only) thing with modern football that really winds me up is how the FA, the clubs and the game itself is dead set on pricing out the vast majority of it's fan base. There is so much money flowing around the football world that every club in the Premier League could financially survive quite easily if not a single fan turned up to watch a game over the entire season. This obviously isn't the case for smaller clubs who depend on fan revenue but for clubs like us, I dare say it's true. So just why is it that we're being asked to pay such ridiculous costs on almost constant basis over the course of 9 months? It's greed, absolute greed. And it's annoying because it is so avoidable because it's so unnecessary. My point is this: If it is so wrong, why do you put up with it?
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Post by Clem Fandango on Feb 17, 2014 10:25:57 GMT
Great thread this and some of the posts echo my own thoughts which actually started a couple of years ago.
For me the sooner the whole thing implodes the better its not necessarily the money but I really don't like 90% of modern footballers who seem the world owes them a living and as soon as things aren't going their way turn on the people who put them in the wonderful position they're in.
As its been said the money involved has probably driven some of this behaviour but the gamesmanship that's now rife through the game is shocking. I cant abide the diving and faking of injury. That spanish fool from Swansea in the game last week who decided to sit on the floor in the 90th minutes complaining of a leg injury but who moments later after a couple of minutes treatment could continue running around still leaves me foaming at the mouth. I think this is part of the reason I've started to watch other sports more and more I find myself a huge fan of cycling these days and yes some of them maybe cheating through doping etc but doping or not you've still got to show a lot of steel to win some of those races.
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Post by hollybush on Feb 17, 2014 10:43:34 GMT
God knows I don't have the solutions, **************, I'm just agreeing with those on here who say it's all a bit shit these days! I'm going to suggest some things below but I'm well aware there are potential problems with them, so feel free to pick them apart! First though, the game didn't change for decades and was more popular back then than it is now (in this country at least), until hooliganism spoiled it for many. Then the police catastrophically mismanaged Hillsborough and suddenly stadia had to become soulless caverns where you are no longer allowed to do pretty much anything. Then Sky created the mega-rich elite and ruined any semblance of a competition for the rest of us. It's certainly more popular than ever in the places you're talking about, where cheap or even free access to live EPL games is common. But in all those places, there are basically five or six teams supported and the rest of us are almost unheard of! And popularity in this country? Not so sure, for the reasons above. OK, the big sides continue to attract the glory-hunters and day-trippers (been to OT recently? It's full of Chinese and Asians, who may as well have been at Alton Towers for all the emotional investment they have in their 'day out') but the PL experience soon wears off for the rest of us once we realise 10th is like winning the League these days and the usual suspects crowd out the top spots and trophies that matter. In this country an increasing number of people who remember well the pre-Sky days are turning their backs on football. I'm not sure I'd describe them as insignificant, after all they're the ones who get their kids involved. If they're not passing on their love of the game to the upcoming lot, who will? To an extent they are probably replaced by the well-to-do, well off 'customer'-types who are not really all that bothered with football if truth be told, but want the 'product' now it's expensive and it's got a certain cachet to say you spent £250 on a day out with your kids at Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. Amazing how willing some people will be to part with their cash if something suddenly becomes expensive. Make it free and they'd probably not bother! Either way, I think that's a dangerous game football is playing by alienating its core support and attracting what I'd describe as the 'holiday' crowd. A different type of holiday will come along soon and they'll be off! One solution is to remove the closed shop where the wealthy clubs are guaranteed success year on year (with the exception of odd years here and there, eg ManU this season) by taking away the money rewards for entering the CL; if necessary return it to a simple two-legged knockout compo. It used to be about the glory, now it's about generating revenue purely so the top European clubs can stay that way. If they don't like it and want to break away, let them go. We and the majority of the PL can't compete regularly with them anyway so they may as well piss off and form their own Super Euro League (which de facto exists anyway) while we'll have a genuinely competitive competition in the meantime, with the league winners being crowned English Champions. Entry to this elite would have to be based on how much money your owner has, otherwise what would be the point. Would we miss the Utds, Chelseas, Arsenals? I don't think so. Perhaps English football could take a leaf out of the NFL and operate a draft system. Have the FA take charge of youth development in this country, not the clubs, (which might even benefit the national side too) then allocate a certain percentage of players to each division, with the better ones allocated to the top flight, the next best to the Championship etc. Give the bottom clubs in each division the picks of the creme of the crop in the same way the NFL draft works. Re-introduce gate receipt sharing. It was obvious that the big rich clubs would benefit massively from this change when it was introduced, and they have. Another way for them to maximise their revenue at the expense of the smaller clubs. As you can see, most of my ideas are all about re-distributing the wealth. Not surprising really since anyone can see that money is ruining the competitive side of football and turning many supporters away. If you just like the quality of the football and the entertainment, **************, without worrying too much about how your side does, or ever will do given the current situation, I can see why you'd say the PL is brilliant. I'd say you're a bit unusual in that respect, as most fans just want to see their team win a fair contest, but fair play to you if that's how you feel. I've played lots of sport and watched lots of sport and the moment money takes away the fair competition element, I'm no longer interested. All great points Luke. I'll say this - how good did you feel when we stuffed Manchester United? I rather enjoyed that and i'd hate not to have the opportunity not to be able to do that again. I was 10 feet tall for days after that. Personally I think the game is in better shape than most people seem to think. The Germans seem to have the model everyone reveres these days, but they're still all about the money when all is said and done, even with "the people" running it. Yes, football has taken a battering with the points you raised, Hillsborough, hooligans etc. but to see my clubs players pitting themselves against some of the best in the world is purely exhilarating. We can give any side in the world a game at the Brit. Any side. If you don't enjoy that fact, then maybe the game is turning it's back on you? Essentially, 22 blokes running around on a grass pitch, a football, two goalposts and a few rules attempted to be enforced by a blind twat in black is the same as it always was. OK, we have cheats and divers these days, but back in the "glory days" we had career terminating injuries dished out by cynical unskilled thugs that I certainly wouldn't pay to watch today. How some of those thugs are remembered with any fondness whatsoever is totally perplexing to me, just as the divers of 2014 are lambasted as the ruination of the game by some people today. These blokes were far worse than any Terry or Suarez in my book, far worse. Collective nostalgia really can play tricks on the mind. The game is far from perfect, but not having the opportunity to stuff Chelsea or Arsenal would be really missed by this poster. That's just too good to miss out on. Think about what you would be giving up if you gave up on SCFC. No way, not for me, not ever. I've never read such a load of confused bollocks in my life. At one point you're going on about how much Stoke are in your blood, then you say prem football is brilliant, then you go on about Far Eastern support. Who gives a sweet swinging fuck about how many millions of Indonesians watch the Prem, when your so-called beloved team struggle every year to reach half way, and your main criteria for saying the football is brilliant is based on watching star players from other clubs? The football is shit, because it's blatantly unfair. Only the rich can compete, so what's happened to 'the working-man's ballet' we were all so proud of? There's better football played on Fenton park, because it's not based on greed and money. Your wonderful Far Eastern fans bring nothing to the game but money and greed. They have no concept of watching a game where the streets around the ground were as likely to house a player as a fan. Surely football is about more than money and star players making ludicrous amounts of cash, but it seems that that's all that matters to you. Just remember, we had the opportunity to stuff Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. in the days when stuffing them was often a step on the way to winning the league, something that other clubs did regularly. In the 21 years since the Prem was formed, there have been 5 different champions, 4 of which have shared 20 of the titles. In the 21 years before that, there were 7 different champions and in the 21 before that, there were 12. Since the war 16 clubs have been English champions, with Manure holding top spot with 18 victories. Strangely, 13 of those 18 are since 1992. Where on earth is the fairness, the balance, the justice in any of that? It's people like you, who are happy to see their own club have no chance at all, so long as you can watch all the big clubs, and occasionally beat one of them, while still having no hope whatsoever of emulating them, that are bringing the game to its' knees. Call yourself a Stoke fan, you must be fucking joking; you're as much a glory hunter as your buddies in Jakarta and Singapore.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 13:23:00 GMT
All great points Luke. I'll say this - how good did you feel when we stuffed Manchester United? I rather enjoyed that and i'd hate not to have the opportunity not to be able to do that again. I was 10 feet tall for days after that. Personally I think the game is in better shape than most people seem to think. The Germans seem to have the model everyone reveres these days, but they're still all about the money when all is said and done, even with "the people" running it. Yes, football has taken a battering with the points you raised, Hillsborough, hooligans etc. but to see my clubs players pitting themselves against some of the best in the world is purely exhilarating. We can give any side in the world a game at the Brit. Any side. If you don't enjoy that fact, then maybe the game is turning it's back on you? Essentially, 22 blokes running around on a grass pitch, a football, two goalposts and a few rules attempted to be enforced by a blind twat in black is the same as it always was. OK, we have cheats and divers these days, but back in the "glory days" we had career terminating injuries dished out by cynical unskilled thugs that I certainly wouldn't pay to watch today. How some of those thugs are remembered with any fondness whatsoever is totally perplexing to me, just as the divers of 2014 are lambasted as the ruination of the game by some people today. These blokes were far worse than any Terry or Suarez in my book, far worse. Collective nostalgia really can play tricks on the mind. The game is far from perfect, but not having the opportunity to stuff Chelsea or Arsenal would be really missed by this poster. That's just too good to miss out on. Think about what you would be giving up if you gave up on SCFC. No way, not for me, not ever. I've never read such a load of confused bollocks in my life. At one point you're going on about how much Stoke are in your blood, then you say prem football is brilliant, then you go on about Far Eastern support. Who gives a sweet swinging fuck about how many millions of Indonesians watch the Prem, when your so-called beloved team struggle every year to reach half way, and your main criteria for saying the football is brilliant is based on watching star players from other clubs? The football is shit, because it's blatantly unfair. Only the rich can compete, so what's happened to 'the working-man's ballet' we were all so proud of? There's better football played on Fenton park, because it's not based on greed and money. Your wonderful Far Eastern fans bring nothing to the game but money and greed. They have no concept of watching a game where the streets around the ground were as likely to house a player as a fan. Surely football is about more than money and star players making ludicrous amounts of cash, but it seems that that's all that matters to you. Just remember, we had the opportunity to stuff Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. in the days when stuffing them was often a step on the way to winning the league, something that other clubs did regularly. In the 21 years since the Prem was formed, there have been 5 different champions, 4 of which have shared 20 of the titles. In the 21 years before that, there were 7 different champions and in the 21 before that, there were 12. Since the war 16 clubs have been English champions, with Manure holding top spot with 18 victories. Strangely, 13 of those 18 are since 1992. Where on earth is the fairness, the balance, the justice in any of that? It's people like you, who are happy to see their own club have no chance at all, so long as you can watch all the big clubs, and occasionally beat one of them, while still having no hope whatsoever of emulating them, that are bringing the game to its' knees. Call yourself a Stoke fan, you must be fucking joking; you're as much a glory hunter as your buddies in Jakarta and Singapore. Well, thankyou for the fascinating insight into your state of mind Hollybush. I suppose I must firstly apologise "For bringing the game to it's knees". But how you get to "Happy to see my own club have no chance" and "Call yourself a Stoke fan, you must be fucking joking" is a bit of a stretch for me. You are very much the problem if you think that it's OK to insult someone like that, particularly as what you are saying bears no resemblance whatsoever to anything i've actually said, so steady on a bit eh mate. And as far as glory hunter goes: here's me in 1971 age 6 outside the Vic with my old man. RIP Dad. I suppose he was a fucking glory hunter too was he?
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Post by hollybush on Feb 17, 2014 13:32:18 GMT
Football will no doubt survive and a new generation of fans will replace those of us longer in the tooth. These new fans will have no problem with diving, cheating etc as it's all they've ever known. They'll have no issue with the 'competition' being an effective closed shop with entry only for those with fabulous wealth who can build massive stadia and buy up all the best players as this also will be normal for them. There will however be a huge swathe of ex-fans who simply don't recognise or value the footballing product they once loved to be involved with. Will this matter? Maybe not, provided there is a constant stream of new customers happy with what's on offer. But it doesn't diminish the value of what the ex-fans say when they argue that football is all a bit pointless, soulless and unrecognizable from the thing they used to enjoy. ************** is right when he says the quality of football has improved. It has. But the whole football experience has diminished massively. Only Sky's and the PL's PR machines working overtime and very effectively it has to be said are keeping a new generation interested. I'll bet there are millions of forty plus fans who think football is a bit wank these days and only have a passing interest in it. I didn't renew my ST this year. I've watched MoTD once this season. I know who is going to finish top four, I know who will reach the latter stages of the CL, it's quite likely who's going to win the LC. It's boringly predictable. It's increasingly lifeless. It's expensive. It's purely about money. It's riddled with cunts on and off the pitch. It's bent from FIFA downwards. In short, all a bit crap these days! The game has changed beyond all recognition and will continue to do so, change is the only constant. Yet football has never been more popular. If youve not been to Soth East Asia you simply would not comprehend the popularity of the EPL. However, here in the UK there's a small ageing (and to be honest, insignificant) minority that are falling out of love with it...so what's the solution here Luke? I'll use this as a reply to you **************. What you seem to be saying is that football is changing in a way that takes it away from me, sifuluke and many others, but it doesn't matter because it means you can enjoy watching Suarez with all your South East Asian buddies. That is the attitude of a wanker, not a proper football fan, and you can deny it all you like, but you know that Stoke will never stand a chance of getting much above halfway in the Prem, and YOU DON'T CARE, because you'll still be able to watch us lose to all the other stars. You're better off outside the country mate, because you sound just like a Japanese tourist. You're just another one who's been taken in by the Premiership bullshit. The English Premiership, home of the greatest players and football in the world. Except that none of the play or are ever likely to play, for Stoke. Now I'm just a simple Stoke fan, but I really don't give a shit if Messi, Ronaldo and Pirlo are playing against Stoke, because believe it or not, I go to watch Stoke, not the fucking opposition.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 13:57:43 GMT
The game has changed beyond all recognition and will continue to do so, change is the only constant. Yet football has never been more popular. If youve not been to Soth East Asia you simply would not comprehend the popularity of the EPL. However, here in the UK there's a small ageing (and to be honest, insignificant) minority that are falling out of love with it...so what's the solution here Luke? I'll use this as a reply to you **************. What you seem to be saying is that football is changing in a way that takes it away from me, sifuluke and many others, but it doesn't matter because it means you can enjoy watching Suarez with all your South East Asian buddies. That is the attitude of a wanker, not a proper football fan, and you can deny it all you like, but you know that Stoke will never stand a chance of getting much above halfway in the Prem, and YOU DON'T CARE, because you'll still be able to watch us lose to all the other stars. You're better off outside the country mate, because you sound just like a Japanese tourist. You're just another one who's been taken in by the Premiership bullshit. The English Premiership, home of the greatest players and football in the world. Except that none of the play or are ever likely to play, for Stoke. Now I'm just a simple Stoke fan, but I really don't give a shit if Messi, Ronaldo and Pirlo are playing against Stoke, because believe it or not, I go to watch Stoke, not the fucking opposition. I just like the football, you know the match. Is that OK with you? I'm also a lifelong Stoke fan with a season ticket. What do you do? Just watch the Stoke players and cover your eyes when the opposition are in possession? Fuck me. Hollybush, when I say "insignificant minority" i'm referring to the small numbers of true fans that are drifting away from the game through disillusionment, not the fact that these fans or you are in some way insignificant as a person... Furthermore I respect these people, it's clowns like you who cry and moan their fucking nutsacks off about it all being corrupt, shite and "not ilke the old days" and then have the fucking brass neck temerity to go to the fucking games, claiming they are true "Stoke fans". The way you've just spoken to a fellow Stokie...well that's what I call a fucking wanker mate
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Post by f1rew0rks on Feb 17, 2014 14:00:11 GMT
The game has changed beyond all recognition and will continue to do so, change is the only constant. Yet football has never been more popular. If youve not been to Soth East Asia you simply would not comprehend the popularity of the EPL. However, here in the UK there's a small ageing (and to be honest, insignificant) minority that are falling out of love with it...so what's the solution here Luke? I'll use this as a reply to you **************. What you seem to be saying is that football is changing in a way that takes it away from me, sifuluke and many others, but it doesn't matter because it means you can enjoy watching Suarez with all your South East Asian buddies. That is the attitude of a wanker, not a proper football fan, and you can deny it all you like, but you know that Stoke will never stand a chance of getting much above halfway in the Prem, and YOU DON'T CARE, because you'll still be able to watch us lose to all the other stars. You're better off outside the country mate, because you sound just like a Japanese tourist. You're just another one who's been taken in by the Premiership bullshit. The English Premiership, home of the greatest players and football in the world. Except that none of the play or are ever likely to play, for Stoke. Now I'm just a simple Stoke fan, but I really don't give a shit if Messi, Ronaldo and Pirlo are playing against Stoke, because believe it or not, I go to watch Stoke, not the fucking opposition. while I agree with you (and I'll try to do it without insulting anyone ;-)) It really is quite nice to see Stoke City playing against (and very occasionally beating) some of the best players in the world. Having said that, I live down South and I go watch my local team when theres no Stoke match to watch. Championship football at Bournemouth or even Conference at Woking. The standard reduces as the level reduces but the physicality increases at the same time. The fans seem to be a world apart from the Premier League fans, proper "flat cap" types with a real knowledge of every player and their club history. The more I see Flores diving and cheating, the more I see referees blatantly favouring the bigger teams the more i am pushed towards these lower league teams.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 17, 2014 14:03:50 GMT
I'll use this as a reply to you **************. What you seem to be saying is that football is changing in a way that takes it away from me, sifuluke and many others, but it doesn't matter because it means you can enjoy watching Suarez with all your South East Asian buddies. That is the attitude of a wanker, not a proper football fan, and you can deny it all you like, but you know that Stoke will never stand a chance of getting much above halfway in the Prem, and YOU DON'T CARE, because you'll still be able to watch us lose to all the other stars. You're better off outside the country mate, because you sound just like a Japanese tourist. You're just another one who's been taken in by the Premiership bullshit. The English Premiership, home of the greatest players and football in the world. Except that none of the play or are ever likely to play, for Stoke. Now I'm just a simple Stoke fan, but I really don't give a shit if Messi, Ronaldo and Pirlo are playing against Stoke, because believe it or not, I go to watch Stoke, not the fucking opposition. I just like the football, you know the match. Is that OK with you? I'm also a lifelong Stoke fan with a season ticket. What do you do? Just watch the Stoke players and cover your eyes when the opposition are in possession? Fuck me. Hollybush, when I say "insignificant minority" i'm referring to the small numbers of true fans that are drifting away from the game through disillusionment, not the fact that these fans or you are in some way insignificant as a person... Furthermore I respect these people, it's clowns like you who cry and moan their fucking nutsacks off about it all being corrupt, shite and "not like the ilke the old days" and then have the fucking brass neck temerity to go to the fucking game, claiming they are true "Stoke fans". Now thats what I call a fucking wanker mate But they still love their club, that's why they go. They just don't like how their loved one is being treated and possibly showing anger that their fellow fans don't care either. Who are you to suggest people shouldn't go to the games. It's their game as much as yours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:13:02 GMT
I just like the football, you know the match. Is that OK with you? I'm also a lifelong Stoke fan with a season ticket. What do you do? Just watch the Stoke players and cover your eyes when the opposition are in possession? Fuck me. Hollybush, when I say "insignificant minority" i'm referring to the small numbers of true fans that are drifting away from the game through disillusionment, not the fact that these fans or you are in some way insignificant as a person... Furthermore I respect these people, it's clowns like you who cry and moan their fucking nutsacks off about it all being corrupt, shite and "not like the ilke the old days" and then have the fucking brass neck temerity to go to the fucking game, claiming they are true "Stoke fans". Now thats what I call a fucking wanker mate But they still love their club, that's why they go. They just don't like how their loved one is being treated and possibly showing anger that their fellow fans don't care either. Who are you to suggest people shouldn't go to the games. It's their game as much as yours. Hold your horses, first of all I would never tell anyone what to do, they're just suggestions. But if you think something is wrong, why do you support it? Is that so hard to grasp? Is it not hypocritical? If my daughter was taking drugs, I wouldnt give her money just because "oooh, but I wuv her..." Pathetic. I'd make sure she had zero money. And that is true love my friend. The point is, you're all fucking moaning about it, but doing fuck all about it, expecting someone else to fix it for you. Fuck Sky off and sign up with Malcolm's campaign if you want to see change - at least Malcolm is doing something other than moan like a drain. DIY. Ever heard of it? I'll just continue to enjoy watching Stoke, sticking it to Man U and Chelsea, like i've always done, happy, without insulting anyone...except Minnie.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 17, 2014 14:23:39 GMT
But it's not the club who they have the problem with is it?! It's FIFA, the FA, the Premier League.
Your daughter would be a problem if she took drugs. Why wouldn't you just drop her, walk away, find someone else to love? Because you love her. And they love their club.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:36:32 GMT
But it's not the club who they have the problem with is it?! It's FIFA, the FA, the Premier League. Your daughter would be a problem if she took drugs. Why wouldn't you just drop her, walk away, find someone else to love? Because you love her. And they love their club. Why do some walk away then? If you have a problem with the governing bodies, then you ultimately have a problem with the Club. It's non-negotiable. I have issues with FIFA and i'll never fully back England whilst we play WC tournaments under Blatter and Co. And I couldn't walk away from my daughter, I would do everything in my power to help her get better. If, after all my attempts failed, I would have to walk away. I'd love to know how many moaning hypocrites on this thread have Sky at home.. ...more than a few I suspect. Now that is truly fucking pathetic. People are very much defined by their actions, not their words (although in Mr. Hollybush's case I am quite prepared to make an exception ).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:41:16 GMT
But they still love their club, that's why they go. They just don't like how their loved one is being treated and possibly showing anger that their fellow fans don't care either. Who are you to suggest people shouldn't go to the games. It's their game as much as yours. Hold your horses, first of all I would never tell anyone what to do, they're just suggestions. But if you think something is wrong, why do you support it? Is that so hard to grasp? Is it not hypocritical? If my daughter was taking drugs, I wouldnt give her money just because "oooh, but I wuv her..." Pathetic. I'd make sure she had zero money. And that is true love my friend. The point is, you're all fucking moaning about it, but doing fuck all about it, expecting someone else to fix it for you. Fuck Sky off and sign up with Malcolm's campaign if you want to see change - at least Malcolm is doing something other than moan like a drain. DIY. Ever heard of it? I'll just continue to enjoy watching Stoke, like i've always done, without insulting anyone...except Minnie. I'd love to know what I can do about it. I'd love to know what joining the FSF would do too. Isn't it partly funded by those who dish out what us mere mortals have to put up with each and every week.? What realistic chance has this merry band of well educated men got in altering the course of its paymasters under the guise of 'Robin Hood'....? Yes,...its almost a conflict of interests scenario. Let's have a chat , and then we'll carry on as if nothing has ever happened , but the good news is we'll continue to pay your wages to fight further good causes on the fans behalf. In reality , it's a lap dog ....a poodle for stroking , cajolling and giving the odd the biscuit too. Its bark is worse than its bite. I don't want to be told about the good work it has done in the past , I want to know what it intends to do about the rising price of watching 'the beautiful game' and gradual demise of its grass roots supporter. SOMEONE who doesn't have the necessary funds to watch a sport they love at a football ground of their choice. Someone from from Chell Heath , Fegg Hayes or Brindley Ford that works 60-70 hours a week perhaps... but whose voice is being ignored because there are plenty more well heeled individuals prepared to pay the going rate. I might chain myself to Sir Stans Statue .....What D'yer think **************...? A goer...? mumf
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:44:44 GMT
Hold your horses, first of all I would never tell anyone what to do, they're just suggestions. But if you think something is wrong, why do you support it? Is that so hard to grasp? Is it not hypocritical? If my daughter was taking drugs, I wouldnt give her money just because "oooh, but I wuv her..." Pathetic. I'd make sure she had zero money. And that is true love my friend. The point is, you're all fucking moaning about it, but doing fuck all about it, expecting someone else to fix it for you. Fuck Sky off and sign up with Malcolm's campaign if you want to see change - at least Malcolm is doing something other than moan like a drain. DIY. Ever heard of it? I'll just continue to enjoy watching Stoke, like i've always done, without insulting anyone...except Minnie. I'd love to know what I can do about it. I'd love to know what joining the FSF would do too. Isn't it partly funded by those who dish out what us mere mortals have to put up with each and every week.? What realistic chance has this merry band of well educated men got in altering the course of its paymasters under the guise of 'Robin Hood'....? Yes,...its almost a conflict of interests scenario. Let's have a chat , and then we'll carry on as if nothing has ever happened , but the good news is we'll continue to pay your wages to fight further good causes on the fans behalf. In reality , it's a lap dog ....a poodle for stroking , cajolling and giving the odd the biscuit too. Its bark is worse than its bite. I don't want to be told about the good work it has done in the past , I want to know what it intends to do about the rising price of watching 'the beautiful game' and gradual demise of its grass roots supporter. SOMEONE who doesn't have the necessary funds to watch a sport they love at a football ground of their choice. Someone from from Chell Heath , Fegg Hayes or Brindley Ford that works 60-70 hours a week perhaps... but whose voice is being ignored because there are plenty more well heeled individuals prepared to pay the going rate. I might chain myself to Sir Stans Statue .....What D'yer think **************...? A goer...? mumf I'll get me donkey jacket on and fetch the brazier. See you down at Sir Stan. Could be a long night Mumf...
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 17, 2014 14:48:44 GMT
But it's not the club who they have the problem with is it?! It's FIFA, the FA, the Premier League. Your daughter would be a problem if she took drugs. Why wouldn't you just drop her, walk away, find someone else to love? Because you love her. And they love their club. Why do some walk away then? If you have a problem with the governing bodies, then you ultimately have a problem with the Club. It's non-negotiable. I have issues with FIFA and i'll never fully back England whilst we play WC tournaments under Blatter and Co. And I couldn't walk away from my daughter, I would do everything in my power to help her get better. If, after all my attempts failed, I would have to walk away. I'd love to know how many moaning hypocrites on this thread have Sky at home.. ...more than a few I suspect. Now that is truly fucking pathetic. People are very much defined by their actions, not their words (although in Mr. HollyBush's case I am quite prepared to break my own rules of judgement...). We're clearly very different people where football is concerned. I can't stand Blatter and FIFA, but I love my country like my club and despite not even agreeing with how the England team is ran I'll be supporting my country this summer in all 3 games It is fascinating taking in different opinions, and I don't think there's a right or wrong opinion to have. I can't see how anyone can say what we've got now is brilliant. But you think it is, good for you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:55:46 GMT
Why do some walk away then? If you have a problem with the governing bodies, then you ultimately have a problem with the Club. It's non-negotiable. I have issues with FIFA and i'll never fully back England whilst we play WC tournaments under Blatter and Co. And I couldn't walk away from my daughter, I would do everything in my power to help her get better. If, after all my attempts failed, I would have to walk away. I'd love to know how many moaning hypocrites on this thread have Sky at home.. ...more than a few I suspect. Now that is truly fucking pathetic. People are very much defined by their actions, not their words (although in Mr. HollyBush's case I am quite prepared to break my own rules of judgement...). We're clearly very different people where football is concerned. I can't stand Blatter and FIFA, but I love my country like my club and despite not even agreeing with how the England team is ran I'll be supporting my country this summer in all 3 games It is fascinating taking in different opinions, and I don't think there's a right or wrong opinion to have. I can't see how anyone can say what we've got now is brilliant. But you think it is, good for you. I try not to read too much into it, I love Stoke and i'm not really one for moaning my ballbag off and then doing nowt about it. And I must love England more than you because i'm taking a stand - i'll be burning Blatter effigy's before each England game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 15:14:29 GMT
Okay **************.....Wrap up warm. I'll be standing next to a lada riva estate wearing a donkey jacket with a placard. On that placard will read a sign " The more the monkey climbs the tree , the more it shows it's arse ".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 15:18:03 GMT
Okay **************.....Wrap up warm. I'll be standing next to a lada riva estate wearing a donkey jacket with a placard. On that placard will read a sign " The more the monkey climbs the tree , the more it shows it's arse ". I think Minnie's got the handcuffs and chains...don't know why, Salop will drop us all down in his Rolls-Royce...
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Feb 17, 2014 15:30:57 GMT
Maybe the reality is Rooney £300k a week......
I said to mates in the pub Sat night, I honestly don't enjoy it as much as I used to, I was on the Boothen after graduating from Dad's knee in the Stand, been going now non stop for over 60 years.
I think it was more fun in the lower leagues, I got a muddy arse at Wigan, players got up and got on with it and any one team in the whole bloody league could win the title.
The Sheiks and Russian oil men have made it a 4 horse race, it's not that I don't look forward to going, it's just not the bloody same, evolution I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 17:56:21 GMT
Hold your horses, first of all I would never tell anyone what to do, they're just suggestions. But if you think something is wrong, why do you support it? Is that so hard to grasp? Is it not hypocritical? If my daughter was taking drugs, I wouldnt give her money just because "oooh, but I wuv her..." Pathetic. I'd make sure she had zero money. And that is true love my friend. The point is, you're all fucking moaning about it, but doing fuck all about it, expecting someone else to fix it for you. Fuck Sky off and sign up with Malcolm's campaign if you want to see change - at least Malcolm is doing something other than moan like a drain. DIY. Ever heard of it? I'll just continue to enjoy watching Stoke, like i've always done, without insulting anyone...except Minnie. I'd love to know what I can do about it. I'd love to know what joining the FSF would do too. Isn't it partly funded by those who dish out what us mere mortals have to put up with each and every week.? mumf On a serious note, if everyone who had an issue with things did actually sack Sky and join Malcolm's FSF - something might actually get done if enough people sign up and bring pressure to bear. I suppose doing nothing is the worst of all possible scenario's if you're genuinely pissed off with the way the game is going. As i've said already, I enjoy the Premiership, it can be brilliant but its far, far from perfect.In the real old days people used to go to the Cinema maybe 3 or 4 times a week. Try that one today with a paper cup half filled with ice, topped up with sugar water for £6.00 a go. I still think that a SCFC season ticket remains very, very good value. If you can't spare £450 once a year for something you genuinely love then it's time to pack it in. As for the diving, i'm over it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 18:21:08 GMT
I'd love to know what I can do about it. I'd love to know what joining the FSF would do too. Isn't it partly funded by those who dish out what us mere mortals have to put up with each and every week.? mumf On a serious note, if everyone who had an issue with things did actually sack Sky and join Malcolm's FSF - something might actually get done if enough people sign up and bring pressure to bear. I suppose doing nothing is the worst of all possible scenario's if you're genuinely pissed off with the way the game is going. As i've said already, I enjoy the Premiership, it can be brilliant but its far, far from perfect.In the real old days people used to go to the Cinema maybe 3 or 4 times a week. Try that one today with a paper cup half filled with ice, topped up with sugar water for £6.00 a go. I still think that a SCFC season ticket remains very, very good value. If you can't spare £450 once a year for something you genuinely love then it's time to pack it in. As for the diving, i'm over it. "If everyone" being the important bit..... The reality is not a piggin chance in hell......hence my lack of enthusiasm and reluctance. One can only let nature take its course I'm afraid. Mumf
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Post by f1rew0rks on Feb 17, 2014 18:28:19 GMT
yep. agreed, EVERYONE is the most important word there. Little old MUMF and me dropping Sky will do absolutely sweet F'k all. I think cuffing ourselves to Sir Stan is favourite so far, but can we wait till the summer when its warmer?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 19:13:42 GMT
So post-war in the 45 years up to the start of the Premier League there have been 15 different 1st tier English League Champions. That's one new winning team every three years. In the Premiership era it's been 5 teams in 22 years, that's approximately one new league winner every 4 years. That's hardly a quantum leap and is totally non-conclusive in the context of the debate. Luke mate, your very well made points are not actually backed up by the facts. They're just opinions that are dripping with a heavy slug of nostalgia. Well, **************, let's see how it all pans out over the same period, if we're both still alive in 23 years' time! I suspect your 'quantum leap' will be staring you square in the face, as the direction of travel over the last few decades has been pretty obvious to anyone. It'll take some drastic changes to English football for anything to alter now, including the big boys voting to change things. Not very likely is it. Money talks, the rich make the rules, they've fixed them so they keep winning and getting more money. I reckon you could probably add Liverpool to the list of league winners as sooner or later they'll either luck out or get it right, or get taken over by the mega-rich, but anyone else? Probably not, provided the game carries on the way it's going. So that's Chelsea, ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City. You ask if I know who's going to win the League. Yes, it'll be one of those five. Again. And again and for the next couple of decades just like it's been in Scotland for the last 30 years with an even smaller pot to choose from. What fun. The point about Sky or BT is a decent one. How anyone can moan about the way football is going while paying good money to the folk who are ruining it is a bit weird.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 17, 2014 19:26:25 GMT
From what I see of it German football has many of the answers Bigger (full) stadiums, cheaper prices, subsidised travel to home games, beer sold on the terraces Not sure about their distribution of TV income - the more even the spread the better Players wages need to limited Club ownership back to the fans Clubs getting into debt to be suspended - fair play rules really implemented Will it happen? Not holding my breath
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 17, 2014 20:13:01 GMT
From what I see of it German football has many of the answers Bigger (full) stadiums, cheaper prices, subsidised travel to home games, beer sold on the terraces Not sure about their distribution of TV income - the more even the spread the better Players wages need to limited Club ownership back to the fans Clubs getting into debt to be suspended - fair play rules really implemented Will it happen? Not holding my breath Not sure how the 'club ownership back to the fans' would work practically. With football being a 'special' business then perhaps there could be some kind of 'restrictive covenant' that comes with Club ownership which works to protect the interests of the community/match goers. {including ticket prices/facilities} I'd add to your fine list: -Transfer caps {money and numbers} -A British draft system for young/emerging talent -No loans within the same league -National quotas within the British teams -Better officiating to reflect a quicker game -Agents linked to Clubs {rather than a myriad of leeches linked to players} with the FA having greater powers of arbitration -The Champions League only for Champions and knock out only/a Cup Winners and Runner's Up Cup {again knock out} My main concern is that the current English model is illogical, unsustainable. If/when the money from TV decreases if we continue on this path we'll be left with a pale and sterile 'football' that too many will have fallen out of love with. It increasingly feels like there are a few folk scoffing at the trough to the detriment of the game. There's not really a single issue and certainly no unanimity amongst 'fans'. I don't reckon' that solo Soccer Suffragette action will lead to change, but I reckon' conversations like this help {even if not particularly pro-active or direct}. They are a start, and may stir up a groundswell. Anyway I'm off to the boozer to watch Faye vs Upson... That's the beauty of the TV, hypocrite maybe. I havn't fallen out of love with the game just yet, but in certain lights I've certainly started to question what I see in her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 20:35:48 GMT
From what I see of it German football has many of the answers Bigger (full) stadiums, cheaper prices, subsidised travel to home games, beer sold on the terraces Not sure about their distribution of TV income - the more even the spread the better Players wages need to limited Club ownership back to the fans Clubs getting into debt to be suspended - fair play rules really implemented Will it happen? Not holding my breath An end to foreign ownership perhaps...? Perhaps a more even playing field might filter through and ensue...?
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Post by Pricey on Feb 17, 2014 20:56:32 GMT
I know German football is held up as a beacon of light by many but is it really that much better than over here? They have the 50+1 ownership rule, cheaper tickets for the hardcore support, safe standing and decent atmospheres; but they've had a lot of problems with hooligans recently, tickets for casual supporters are almost as much as ours and despite the likes of Wolfsburg and Dortmund winning the league in recent years, Munich are turning it into a monopoly.
They sign everyone else's best players as soon as they get anywhere near their peak, which in combination with their obscenely high revenues has led to them pretty much having the league wrapped up by Christmas. They currently have a 46-match unbeaten league run stretching back well into last season and in 13/14 have played 21, won 19, drawn 2, scored 57 and conceded 9. They are 16 points ahead of the chasing pack and will probably wrap the title up mathematically with a couple of months of the season left. And we say our league is uncompetitive!
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 17, 2014 21:10:50 GMT
I know German football is held up as a beacon of light by many but is it really that much better than over here? They have the 50+1 ownership rule, cheaper tickets for the hardcore support, safe standing and decent atmospheres; but they've had a lot of problems with hooligans recently, tickets for casual supporters are almost as much as ours and despite the likes of Wolfsburg and Dortmund winning the league in recent years, Munich are turning it into a monopoly. They sign everyone else's best players as soon as they get anywhere near their peak, which in combination with their obscenely high revenues has led to them pretty much having the league wrapped up by Christmas. They currently have a 46-match unbeaten league run stretching back well into last season and in 13/14 have played 21, won 19, drawn 2, scored 57 and conceded 9. They are 16 points ahead of the chasing pack and will probably wrap the title up mathematically with a couple of months of the season left. And we say our league is uncompetitive! I was generalising about German football Pricey but you are right about Bayern who are despised by most other German clubs Again distribution of money is the root of the problem (as in Spain) - UEFA are trying to address the problem but at the moment just scratching the surface
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 17, 2014 22:10:17 GMT
This thread is one of an increasing number on the same subject, and IMO, the first step on not too long a road. I've read on this thread that the 'oldies' will drift away and become 'natural wastage'. It doesn't quite work that way. With some of the older ones drifting away will be some of those not quite so old who look on the oldies as part of the reason they go to the game. So when some of the younger ones also drift away, so, too, will some of the even younger ones. Ad infinitum until eventually, 'local' fans diminishing in ever increasing numbers will vanish up the arse of the hoola-hoola bird and the game will become a product of the ultimate masses: a global TV product selling its soul where a supporting background noise from supporters is to be had. It will probably be Asia, and any club who want financial success will take their 'wares' wherever the TV moguls say they should go. You don't think I'm right? When I was watching players like Tom Finney with his amazing talent working as a plumber and also as a footballer, if anybody had ever told me that one player would earn £15,000,000 a year, then I would have laughed in their faces and told them they were fucking crazy.
OS.
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