|
Post by Olgrligm on Feb 16, 2014 14:06:38 GMT
I can rhink of several reasons why it is, both on and off the pitch. Yes, me too, but I doubt we'll be seeing you down at N-U-L FC with a "Black Power" placard anytime soon though MD? Not in the foreseeable future, no.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 16, 2014 15:39:32 GMT
This guy is hardly going to turn his back on his childhood team and then start following another, only to say "err...i've made a mistake" is he? It would take a lot more than the antics of someone like Vincent Tan to stop me supporting Stoke. I'm also sure that many Cardiff fans are very grateful for what Mr. Tan has done and the ambition he is showing for the famous old Welsh club. I mean "Against Modern Football". Where's the positive message in that? You might as well be against marmalade. If you're serious about going off to support another team, just get on with it. End of. Quite often these people can be so outspoken that they unwittingly back themselves into a corner, leaving no other option but to actually follow through their petty grumbles in a futile attempt to preserve their dignity... That symbol is a fucking joke too. Is the modern game so awful? Or is the modern fan just a spoilt, moaning mardarse? I think, on the whole, the Premiership is brilliant, but it's far from perfect. Is it better than the old First Division as it was, say, in the '70s? I think not. The football isn't a higher standard today, it certainly isn't as competitive. It is though much much more expensive. Not to say the League then was perfect - but it was, on the whole, better as far as I'm concerned. I can see why folks would want to find some way of rediscovering a different kind of football.
|
|
|
Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 16, 2014 16:33:37 GMT
I understand the assumption that those falling out of love with the game are those perhaps in their late 40s onwards, but I'm 27 tomorrow and can honestly say I'm starting to fall out of love with it all.
Wayne Rooney on £1,200,000.00 a month. FFS!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 16:48:04 GMT
Football will no doubt survive and a new generation of fans will replace those of us longer in the tooth. These new fans will have no problem with diving, cheating etc as it's all they've ever known. They'll have no issue with the 'competition' being an effective closed shop with entry only for those with fabulous wealth who can build massive stadia and buy up all the best players as this also will be normal for them. There will however be a huge swathe of ex-fans who simply don't recognise or value the footballing product they once loved to be involved with. Will this matter? Maybe not, provided there is a constant stream of new customers happy with what's on offer. But it doesn't diminish the value of what the ex-fans say when they argue that football is all a bit pointless, soulless and unrecognizable from the thing they used to enjoy. ************** is right when he says the quality of football has improved. It has. But the whole football experience has diminished massively. Only Sky's and the PL's PR machines working overtime and very effectively it has to be said are keeping a new generation interested. I'll bet there are millions of forty plus fans who think football is a bit wank these days and only have a passing interest in it. I didn't renew my ST this year. I've watched MoTD once this season. I know who is going to finish top four, I know who will reach the latter stages of the CL, it's quite likely who's going to win the LC. It's boringly predictable. It's increasingly lifeless. It's expensive. It's purely about money. It's riddled with cunts on and off the pitch. It's bent from FIFA downwards. In short, all a bit crap these days! The game has changed beyond all recognition and will continue to do so, change is the only constant. Yet football has never been more popular. If youve not been to Soth East Asia you simply would not comprehend the popularity of the EPL. However, here in the UK there's a small ageing (and to be honest, insignificant) minority that are falling out of love with it...so what's the solution here Luke? God knows I don't have the solutions, **************, I'm just agreeing with those on here who say it's all a bit shit these days! I'm going to suggest some things below but I'm well aware there are potential problems with them, so feel free to pick them apart! First though, the game didn't change for decades and was more popular back then than it is now (in this country at least), until hooliganism spoiled it for many. Then the police catastrophically mismanaged Hillsborough and suddenly stadia had to become soulless caverns where you are no longer allowed to do pretty much anything. Then Sky created the mega-rich elite and ruined any semblance of a competition for the rest of us. It's certainly more popular than ever in the places you're talking about, where cheap or even free access to live EPL games is common. But in all those places, there are basically five or six teams supported and the rest of us are almost unheard of! And popularity in this country? Not so sure, for the reasons above. OK, the big sides continue to attract the glory-hunters and day-trippers (been to OT recently? It's full of Chinese and Asians, who may as well have been at Alton Towers for all the emotional investment they have in their 'day out') but the PL experience soon wears off for the rest of us once we realise 10th is like winning the League these days and the usual suspects crowd out the top spots and trophies that matter. In this country an increasing number of people who remember well the pre-Sky days are turning their backs on football. I'm not sure I'd describe them as insignificant, after all they're the ones who get their kids involved. If they're not passing on their love of the game to the upcoming lot, who will? To an extent they are probably replaced by the well-to-do, well off 'customer'-types who are not really all that bothered with football if truth be told, but want the 'product' now it's expensive and it's got a certain cachet to say you spent £250 on a day out with your kids at Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. Amazing how willing some people will be to part with their cash if something suddenly becomes expensive. Make it free and they'd probably not bother! Either way, I think that's a dangerous game football is playing by alienating its core support and attracting what I'd describe as the 'holiday' crowd. A different type of holiday will come along soon and they'll be off! One solution is to remove the closed shop where the wealthy clubs are guaranteed success year on year (with the exception of odd years here and there, eg ManU this season) by taking away the money rewards for entering the CL; if necessary return it to a simple two-legged knockout compo. It used to be about the glory, now it's about generating revenue purely so the top European clubs can stay that way. If they don't like it and want to break away, let them go. We and the majority of the PL can't compete regularly with them anyway so they may as well piss off and form their own Super Euro League (which de facto exists anyway) while we'll have a genuinely competitive competition in the meantime, with the league winners being crowned English Champions. Entry to this elite would have to be based on how much money your owner has, otherwise what would be the point. Would we miss the Utds, Chelseas, Arsenals? I don't think so. Perhaps English football could take a leaf out of the NFL and operate a draft system. Have the FA take charge of youth development in this country, not the clubs, (which might even benefit the national side too) then allocate a certain percentage of players to each division, with the better ones allocated to the top flight, the next best to the Championship etc. Give the bottom clubs in each division the picks of the creme of the crop in the same way the NFL draft works. Re-introduce gate receipt sharing. It was obvious that the big rich clubs would benefit massively from this change when it was introduced, and they have. Another way for them to maximise their revenue at the expense of the smaller clubs. As you can see, most of my ideas are all about re-distributing the wealth. Not surprising really since anyone can see that money is ruining the competitive side of football and turning many supporters away. If you just like the quality of the football and the entertainment, **************, without worrying too much about how your side does, or ever will do given the current situation, I can see why you'd say the PL is brilliant. I'd say you're a bit unusual in that respect, as most fans just want to see their team win a fair contest, but fair play to you if that's how you feel. I've played lots of sport and watched lots of sport and the moment money takes away the fair competition element, I'm no longer interested.
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 16, 2014 18:05:41 GMT
Says the man with 60,000 posts on an internet forum.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2014 18:10:26 GMT
Says the man with 60,000 posts on an internet forum. I don't look geeky though!
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Feb 16, 2014 18:25:03 GMT
I remember the days when any club could literally win the title. Ipswich won in their first season at the top after successive promotions from the 4th Division. This isn't ancient history - it is well within my time of watching the game.
Forest came up with Cloughie and won both the title and the European Cup.
The strength of English football was that no one dominated for too long. This was partly due to the maximum wage which meant that players like Tom Finney could play for their local club for ever without being poached by a mega rich owner from a rival club.
I don't advocate a return to maximum wage, but English football would be more of a spectacle for the average club supporter if it wasn't dominated by a handful of super rich clubs.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 18:45:54 GMT
I remember the days when any club could literally win the title. Ipswich won in their first season at the top after successive promotions from the 4th Division. This isn't ancient history - it is well within my time of watching the game. Forest came up with Cloughie and won both the title and the European Cup. The strength of English football was that no one dominated for too long. This was partly due to the maximum wage which meant that players like Tom Finney could play for their local club for ever without being poached by a mega rich owner from a rival club. I don't advocate a return to maximum wage, but English football would be more of a spectacle for the average club supporter if it wasn't dominated by a handful of super rich clubs. I completely take your point March, i'm just not so sure that I agree with it. Just because any (and that's not strictly true actually) side could win it, does that really make it better? Look how tight things are at the moment, surely that's better than Liverpool running away with it each year?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 19:19:21 GMT
The game has changed beyond all recognition and will continue to do so, change is the only constant. Yet football has never been more popular. If youve not been to Soth East Asia you simply would not comprehend the popularity of the EPL. However, here in the UK there's a small ageing (and to be honest, insignificant) minority that are falling out of love with it...so what's the solution here Luke? God knows I don't have the solutions, **************, I'm just agreeing with those on here who say it's all a bit shit these days! I'm going to suggest some things below but I'm well aware there are potential problems with them, so feel free to pick them apart! First though, the game didn't change for decades and was more popular back then than it is now (in this country at least), until hooliganism spoiled it for many. Then the police catastrophically mismanaged Hillsborough and suddenly stadia had to become soulless caverns where you are no longer allowed to do pretty much anything. Then Sky created the mega-rich elite and ruined any semblance of a competition for the rest of us. It's certainly more popular than ever in the places you're talking about, where cheap or even free access to live EPL games is common. But in all those places, there are basically five or six teams supported and the rest of us are almost unheard of! And popularity in this country? Not so sure, for the reasons above. OK, the big sides continue to attract the glory-hunters and day-trippers (been to OT recently? It's full of Chinese and Asians, who may as well have been at Alton Towers for all the emotional investment they have in their 'day out') but the PL experience soon wears off for the rest of us once we realise 10th is like winning the League these days and the usual suspects crowd out the top spots and trophies that matter. In this country an increasing number of people who remember well the pre-Sky days are turning their backs on football. I'm not sure I'd describe them as insignificant, after all they're the ones who get their kids involved. If they're not passing on their love of the game to the upcoming lot, who will? To an extent they are probably replaced by the well-to-do, well off 'customer'-types who are not really all that bothered with football if truth be told, but want the 'product' now it's expensive and it's got a certain cachet to say you spent £250 on a day out with your kids at Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. Amazing how willing some people will be to part with their cash if something suddenly becomes expensive. Make it free and they'd probably not bother! Either way, I think that's a dangerous game football is playing by alienating its core support and attracting what I'd describe as the 'holiday' crowd. A different type of holiday will come along soon and they'll be off! One solution is to remove the closed shop where the wealthy clubs are guaranteed success year on year (with the exception of odd years here and there, eg ManU this season) by taking away the money rewards for entering the CL; if necessary return it to a simple two-legged knockout compo. It used to be about the glory, now it's about generating revenue purely so the top European clubs can stay that way. If they don't like it and want to break away, let them go. We and the majority of the PL can't compete regularly with them anyway so they may as well piss off and form their own Super Euro League (which de facto exists anyway) while we'll have a genuinely competitive competition in the meantime, with the league winners being crowned English Champions. Entry to this elite would have to be based on how much money your owner has, otherwise what would be the point. Would we miss the Utds, Chelseas, Arsenals? I don't think so. Perhaps English football could take a leaf out of the NFL and operate a draft system. Have the FA take charge of youth development in this country, not the clubs, (which might even benefit the national side too) then allocate a certain percentage of players to each division, with the better ones allocated to the top flight, the next best to the Championship etc. Give the bottom clubs in each division the picks of the creme of the crop in the same way the NFL draft works. Re-introduce gate receipt sharing. It was obvious that the big rich clubs would benefit massively from this change when it was introduced, and they have. Another way for them to maximise their revenue at the expense of the smaller clubs. As you can see, most of my ideas are all about re-distributing the wealth. Not surprising really since anyone can see that money is ruining the competitive side of football and turning many supporters away. If you just like the quality of the football and the entertainment, **************, without worrying too much about how your side does, or ever will do given the current situation, I can see why you'd say the PL is brilliant. I'd say you're a bit unusual in that respect, as most fans just want to see their team win a fair contest, but fair play to you if that's how you feel. I've played lots of sport and watched lots of sport and the moment money takes away the fair competition element, I'm no longer interested. All great points Luke. I'll say this - how good did you feel when we stuffed Manchester United? I rather enjoyed that and i'd hate not to have the opportunity not to be able to do that again. I was 10 feet tall for days after that. Personally I think the game is in better shape than most people seem to think. The Germans seem to have the model everyone reveres these days, but they're still all about the money when all is said and done, even with "the people" running it. Yes, football has taken a battering with the points you raised, Hillsborough, hooligans etc. but to see my clubs players pitting themselves against some of the best in the world is purely exhilarating. We can give any side in the world a game at the Brit. Any side. If you don't enjoy that fact, then maybe the game is turning it's back on you? Essentially, 22 blokes running around on a grass pitch, a football, two goalposts and a few rules attempted to be enforced by a blind twat in black is the same as it always was. OK, we have cheats and divers these days, but back in the "glory days" we had career terminating injuries dished out by cynical unskilled thugs that I certainly wouldn't pay to watch today. How some of those thugs are remembered with any fondness whatsoever is totally perplexing to me, just as the divers of 2014 are lambasted as the ruination of the game by some people today. These blokes were far worse than any Terry or Suarez in my book, far worse. Collective nostalgia really can play tricks on the mind. The game is far from perfect, but not having the opportunity to stuff Chelsea or Arsenal would be really missed by this poster. That's just too good to miss out on. Think about what you would be giving up if you gave up on SCFC. No way, not for me, not ever.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 19:36:52 GMT
I see where you're coming from, **************, really I do, but to answer your question to March, who summed up how I feel in thankfully a tenth of the words!
"Just because any (and that's not strictly true actually) side could win it, does that really make it better?" - Yes. Yes, it does. Emphatically yes. Unless your enjoyment is restricted purely to waiting for the one game in ten or 15 when we manage to pull off a victory against a big side. Yes, of course it feels great, but it shouldn't be that rare an occurrence, because the odds should not be so heavily weighted in the rich boys' favour that, in every other outing where we lose, the response is - ah well what did we expect against their resources? What's the fucking point of that as a competition?!
And I'm not giving up on SCFC. I never will. Someone once said supporting a football team is like a marriage with no right of divorce. I disagree. It's like having kids. No matter how much they might piss you off or disappoint you on occasions, you'll always want the best for them, always look out for them, always support them however you can.
It's football I'm slowly giving up on, not SCFC. SCFC are a part of that obviously and I'll always care how they're doing, but not that much if they're effectively playing with one leg tied to the other (and I don't mean Jon Walters!) which is what modern football is doing.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 16, 2014 19:44:38 GMT
Says the man with 60,000 posts on an internet forum. I don't look geeky though! So you say...
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2014 19:48:10 GMT
I don't look geeky though! So you say... Liam Gallagher. Helmut Hair. Lego man. Fat Stevie G (when my hair was shorter and I was fatter). Or just plain cunt. But not geeky.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 19:49:45 GMT
The thing is Luke, they tried this level playing field with motor racing, where every driver had the same car, it was as boring as hell.
In the good old days of football, where "anyone could win it", how come we've only won one one trophy in over 150 years? Truth is, it's never been like that and the nearest we came to adding to that was in this "league of impossible achievement" in the same competition as Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea only to be beaten by a single goal against the richest side in world club football. Is it really so one sided?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 20:06:12 GMT
Motor racing is a boring as hell now! One team with all the money and best designers dominates! Sounds familiar does it not!
Post WW2 to the Sky era, 15 or so different clubs won the league, god knows how many different ones won the FA Cup. League winners included Portsmouth, Ipswich, Villa, Burnley, Wolves, Derby, Nottm Forest, small provincial clubs managed by inspirational managers with an eye for talent. We very nearly did win it just after the war and in the early 70s. We'll get nowhere near these days and nor will the bigger clubs in that list like Villa!
Post Sky, you've had 5 clubs winning the league, (4 if you exclude Blackburn who bought it in 93). It'll stay like that for as long as money dominates. It'll become as dull and as pointless as a competition as the Scottish League.
You really may as well not bother playing the games, just add up the cost of the players, their wages and the owners' worth and hand the points out on that basis, only bothering with a game if the difference between the two is marginal!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 20:23:42 GMT
Motor racing isn't just Formula 1 though... So post-war in the 45 years up to the start of the Premier League there have been 15 different 1st tier English League Champions. That's one new winning team every three years. In the Premiership era it's been 5 teams in 22 years, that's approximately one new league winner every 4 years. That's hardly a quantum leap and is totally non-conclusive in the context of the debate. And as for the 2014 English League Champions, tell me who is definitely going to win it. You can't. Tell me, who is definitely getting relegated? You can't. Stoke to finish in the top 10? We don't know. The 2014 FA Cup Winners? A yet unknown side. Luke mate, your very well made points are not actually backed up by the facts. They're just opinions that are dripping with a heavy slug of nostalgia.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Feb 16, 2014 20:25:03 GMT
I remember the days when any club could literally win the title. Ipswich won in their first season at the top after successive promotions from the 4th Division. This isn't ancient history - it is well within my time of watching the game. Forest came up with Cloughie and won both the title and the European Cup. The strength of English football was that no one dominated for too long. This was partly due to the maximum wage which meant that players like Tom Finney could play for their local club for ever without being poached by a mega rich owner from a rival club. I don't advocate a return to maximum wage, but English football would be more of a spectacle for the average club supporter if it wasn't dominated by a handful of super rich clubs. I completely take your point March, i'm just not so sure that I agree with it. Just because any (and that's not strictly true actually) side could win it, does that really make it better? Look how tight things are at the moment, surely that's better than Liverpool running away with it each year? The thing is that we could have won the title at some point in the last 150 years. However, unless something dramatic happens to the game in England, we will not win the title this season, next season or any other season for the next 150 years. Neither will Ipswich or Forest or Derby or ..................................... name 84 more clubs. To me, that diminishes the game as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 20:26:51 GMT
I completely take your point March, i'm just not so sure that I agree with it. Just because any (and that's not strictly true actually) side could win it, does that really make it better? Look how tight things are at the moment, surely that's better than Liverpool running away with it each year? The thing is that we could have won the title at some point in the last 150 years. However, unless something dramatic happens to the game in England, we will not win the title this season, next season or any other season for the next 150 years. Neither will Ipswich or Forest or Derby or ..................................... name 84 more clubs. To me, that diminishes the game as a whole. Money has always been a factor in football. Its always been there and it always will be there, whether we like it or not!
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Feb 16, 2014 21:54:18 GMT
We are the fans, without us football is nothing.
Every season i feel the contempt shown towards us grows. The chasm between us and the people who own, commentate, run and play the game at the higher levels is now so absurd that i question my own judgement on contributing to this farce.
It's like we are expected to be in awe of the money involved, like for some reason it makes us feel part of something big. Media talking it up, turning it into a fucking soap opera, giving us something to debate like it's their gift to us. Perhaps they created this beast as a distraction tactic, it's what they allow us to have opinions about. The old culture was taken away and sold back to us by SKY, if we want to be loyal we can fucking well pay for it and be thankful. Takes the piss. Even the sponsers rub it in our faces, Wonga, cash converters etc, they treat us like mugs and we lap it up.
I don't trust football anymore either, Where there's brass there's a scam. Television and betting is where the money's at now, they care more for the revenue collected from the Far East than the traditions or match day experience for loyal fans. Big clubs are nowt but brands and run the same way and the smaller clubs would do exactly the same given half the chance.
Catching up with old friends with the brutal banter that accompanies this though is something i would really miss should i not renew my season ticket. Saying that though it'll be on in the pub and i have plenty of friends in there who were priced out of the game years ago.
Stoke City have always been part of me and always will. But football has become an illusion, it's not "real" anymore. They need to realise the pantomime is not what real fans enjoy and start treating us with respect again, They have pushed our loyalty to breaking point.
Rant over.....
Oh hang on, to those who see me in the pub and insist on repeating Match of the Day opinions to me like i'm in their new trendy gang cause i've always been a regular at Stoke..... I'm not fucking interested, you didn't talk to me about Stoke when we were shit, and your opinion on this is meaningless to me.
Try me on another subject. hahaha
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Feb 16, 2014 22:19:56 GMT
Good thread. I'm resisting a temptation to write a thesis on many of the point raised. So I'll just say - if you are not prepared to see football continuing in its current direction,think that it's our game not theirs, and that we can change things - or at least some of them - join the FSF www.fsf.org.uk
|
|
|
Post by dutchpeter72 on Feb 16, 2014 22:37:53 GMT
Good thread. I'm resisting a temptation to write a thesis on many of the point raised. So I'll just say - if you are not prepared to see football continuing in its current direction,think that it's our game not theirs, and that we can change things - or at least some of them - join the FSF www.fsf.org.uk You're a smoothie Malcolm
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 22:47:36 GMT
Football is already well beyond the means of most hard working families. Attendances are already beginning to fall and will continue to do so. There are also those people who can afford the ticket prices , but who feel the price of tickets is obscene and not worth the effort.
Next season another 1500 will 'go missing' never to return. It's a simple concept of people voting with their feet. You can argue amongst yourselves as to what can be done about it , but the bottom line is for prices to come down to a level that the majority can afford. Football has become far too elitist and examples of this can be seen on this thread.
When a matchday ticket represents 2/3rds of unemployment benefit then you know that there is something drastically wrong with our society.
|
|
|
Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 17, 2014 0:20:58 GMT
Too add to the point of how many different league winners have there been...the English teams to qualify for the Champions League group phase in the last 10 years (could be longer).
Man Utd Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool Man City (3 times?) Tottenham (once?)
I don't care what anyone says. If you take part in sport, whether it's the Premier League or Tean & District Darts League, you aim to be the best. If a pub in Uttoxeter manages to sign up Taylor, Van Gerwen, Lewis, a couple of county players and somebody to be captain, you know you've got no chance of winning anything. And it's not like Stoke can even qualify for the Champions League. We qualified for the Europa League by luck of an easy cup run and then losing to the only team placed higher in the football league than us. I dreamt of Stoke reaching the Prem, but eventually it takes your soul away. Right now my footballing soul feels like the Riverside Stadium looked when Boro got relegated. Having been full of noise, hopes and dreams, now half full, bitter and trying to keep hold of false hope that one day things will improve.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 0:24:01 GMT
It's obvious that some folks are finding the whole issue of being a football fan both morally and financially challenging. If I felt so strongly about something i'd honestly do something about it. I used to go to loads of gigs, then one day I just stopped going. I realised that i'd had my fun with watching bands and moved my life on, in fact I think I joined a band.
Just because you're getting bored with football, cheesed off with the costs, or disillusioned with Wayne Rooney's salary, doesn't automatically mean that there is a problem with football per se, its a problem between you and the modern game. You don't have to demonise something just because you're struggling with it on a personal level.
There are still plenty of folk who think that football remains good value and they can still enjoy it. If thats not you, just go and do something else...but above all remain positive about matters, park it up, come back to it later if you need to.
It grates with me when I read posts from people moaning on about this Premier League and that Club, and yet are somehow unable to take any personal action on the matter. That for me is the biggest and saddest waste of all. Football is, after all, just a game.
Never mind reclaim the game, reclaim your ability to move on in life!
|
|
|
Post by The battheader chronicles on Feb 17, 2014 0:31:41 GMT
I'm 18 now, had an interest in football from bout 9-ish supported stoke since I was 11 odd and I've already had enough of modern football, think rugby from here on it. The amount they earn whilst it make sence in terms of business and revenue generated and so on should never have got this far
|
|
|
Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 17, 2014 1:00:29 GMT
It's obvious that some folks are finding the whole issue of being a football fan both morally and financially challenging. If I felt so strongly about something i'd honestly do something about it. I used to go to loads of gigs, then one day I just stopped going. I realised that i'd had my fun with watching bands and moved my life on, in fact I think I joined a band. Just because you're getting bored with football, cheesed off with the costs, or disillusioned with Wayne Rooney's salary, doesn't automatically mean that there is a problem with football per se, its a problem between you and the modern game. You don't have to demonise something just because you're struggling with it on a personal level. There are still plenty of folk who think that football remains good value and they can still enjoy it. If thats not you, just go and do something else...but above all remain positive about matters, park it up, come back to it later if you need to. It grates with me when I read posts from people moaning on about this Premier League and that Club, and yet are somehow unable to take any personal action on the matter. That for me is the biggest and saddest waste of all. Football is, after all, just a game. Never mind reclaim the game, reclaim your ability to move on in life! Nice diplomatic work **************. But you are necessarily dislocated from the whole experience. And have your view. You in T-Land are closer to the Prem experience than loads of indigenous Potters. .. and it's getting increasingly remote for folk like us on the doorstep. It's wrong and getting wronger.. the 'true' fans {match goers} are nowt more than canned laughter today...
|
|
|
Post by craig67 on Feb 17, 2014 1:07:25 GMT
He doesn't realise he's part of the problem though, bless him. And I'm specifically on about the bloke in the photo. Fuckin hell bayern that is very harsh. How about taking account of what he's saying and doing rather than picking out the way he looks and the fact he's carrying a flag ffs? This guy is as passionate and old-school a fan as you can get and he's taken the pretty big step of turning his back on it, purely on principle - and doing a little bit to stand up for traditions I thought you valued in footy. In what way is he 'part of the problem'? The Bayern's of this world are part of the problem.Keyboard warrior who takes everybody to task.This is a bloke who couldn't even be bothered to watch the Soton match on his laptap-and what was your excuse? Quick to complain and condemn but does nothing about it!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 6:45:01 GMT
It's obvious that some folks are finding the whole issue of being a football fan both morally and financially challenging. If I felt so strongly about something i'd honestly do something about it. I used to go to loads of gigs, then one day I just stopped going. I realised that i'd had my fun with watching bands and moved my life on, in fact I think I joined a band. Just because you're getting bored with football, cheesed off with the costs, or disillusioned with Wayne Rooney's salary, doesn't automatically mean that there is a problem with football per se, its a problem between you and the modern game. You don't have to demonise something just because you're struggling with it on a personal level. There are still plenty of folk who think that football remains good value and they can still enjoy it. If thats not you, just go and do something else...but above all remain positive about matters, park it up, come back to it later if you need to. It grates with me when I read posts from people moaning on about this Premier League and that Club, and yet are somehow unable to take any personal action on the matter. That for me is the biggest and saddest waste of all. Football is, after all, just a game. Never mind reclaim the game, reclaim your ability to move on in life! Nice diplomatic work **************. But you are necessarily dislocated from the whole experience. And have your view. You in T-Land are closer to the Prem experience than loads of indigenous Potters. .. and it's getting increasingly remote for folk like us on the doorstep. It's wrong and getting wronger.. the 'true' fans {match goers} are nowt more than canned laughter today... Hmmm...possibly Cheesey, but I don't see being in Thailand as any different from being in Clayton tbh. If something's wrong it's wrong. Tis harder to be a Potter in Hua Hin than it is in Hanley. I write this to you from Beech and I do get to games by the way - cost me a bloody fortune (I still have a season ticket). I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that i'm not a true fan old boy!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 6:49:50 GMT
Fuckin hell bayern that is very harsh. How about taking account of what he's saying and doing rather than picking out the way he looks and the fact he's carrying a flag ffs? This guy is as passionate and old-school a fan as you can get and he's taken the pretty big step of turning his back on it, purely on principle - and doing a little bit to stand up for traditions I thought you valued in footy. In what way is he 'part of the problem'? The Bayern's of this world are part of the problem.Keyboard warrior who takes everybody to task.This is a bloke who couldn't even be bothered to watch the Soton match on his laptap-and what was your excuse? Quick to complain and condemn but does nothing about it! Bayern's a teddy-bear. A teddy-bear with 60 million posts yes, but still a teddy-bear! Leave Bayern alone you big bully!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 7:37:49 GMT
It's obvious that some folks are finding the whole issue of being a football fan both morally and financially challenging. If I felt so strongly about something i'd honestly do something about it. I used to go to loads of gigs, then one day I just stopped going. I realised that i'd had my fun with watching bands and moved my life on, in fact I think I joined a band. Just because you're getting bored with football, cheesed off with the costs, or disillusioned with Wayne Rooney's salary, doesn't automatically mean that there is a problem with football per se, its a problem between you and the modern game. You don't have to demonise something just because you're struggling with it on a personal level. There are still plenty of folk who think that football remains good value and they can still enjoy it. If thats not you, just go and do something else...but above all remain positive about matters, park it up, come back to it later if you need to. It grates with me when I read posts from people moaning on about this Premier League and that Club, and yet are somehow unable to take any personal action on the matter. That for me is the biggest and saddest waste of all. Football is, after all, just a game. Never mind reclaim the game, reclaim your ability to move on in life! Nice diplomatic work **************. But you are necessarily dislocated from the whole experience. And have your view. You in T-Land are closer to the Prem experience than loads of indigenous Potters. .. and it's getting increasingly remote for folk like us on the doorstep. It's wrong and getting wronger.. the 'true' fans {match goers} are nowt more than canned laughter today... That's absolutely spot on, cheesy (from yet another exile) I put on the ST Early Bird thread; it is shocking all - well, most - PL clubs aren't lowering prices (for STs at the very least) given that - as Saturday's early FA Cup ties showed - no one wants to be broadcasting games from empty stadiums. In Australia, that's what the A-League is for! If this was Germany, fans from all clubs would have already agreed a date for No-One-Goes Day; and it would be impeccably observed. At the point absolutely everybody else is coining it in, it is well time the passion of the sound effects got a little bit back. So - and as Delia Smith so obviously says to Hubby, as she clambers into bed - "Where are ya bollocks?!"
|
|
|
Post by stokiejohn on Feb 17, 2014 8:08:22 GMT
After having had sky for many years I finally got rid of it recently. Like others on here I hold them ( along with the premier league / so called champions league) for helping to destroy the " true fans " game in pursuit of the fortunes they could make out of it at our expense. Some great points from Luke ( and others) on this subject. I am in my 50's now and while I will always love Stoke I will never accept how the game is been ( mis) managed by those who are supposed to be looking after its heritage? The great players from the past must be turning in their graves at what is happening, and continues to in what some call change or even progress?? At least I can sleep a little easier now I am no longer paying a sky subscription, and not be a hypocrite as I feel I was.
|
|