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Post by jeycov on Nov 20, 2013 16:05:50 GMT
Yes dead and buried. I assume it could be possible to seek a judicial review of the process but that would be expensive and in any event too long. I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2013 16:08:25 GMT
Yes dead and buried. I assume it could be possible to seek a judicial review of the process but that would be expensive and in any event too long. I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too. Yeah I don't get that either. I suspect it's because there is no good reason.
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Post by apb1979 on Nov 20, 2013 16:08:37 GMT
I think after today there will be no more fishing in the MLS market.
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Post by stokeramblers on Nov 20, 2013 16:10:35 GMT
I think after today there will be no more fishing in the MLS market. Depends if we're still in thrall to the Beswick Boys as I suspect we are. Their bread seems to be well buttered Stateside..
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Post by fca47 on Nov 20, 2013 16:10:55 GMT
As they say "one law for the rich one for the poor"
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Nov 20, 2013 16:12:03 GMT
This is too bad for Juan, but he was not the answer to our problems this year, and who knows if he would have developed into a player that would contribute to our club on a regular basis.
Now we have a little more to spend in January on a player that will actually make an immediate impact.
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Post by jeycov on Nov 20, 2013 16:13:17 GMT
I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too. Yeah I don't get that either. I suspect it's because there is no good reason. Surely we have the legal expertise to follow this up and at least get an explanation. The procedure needs to be transparent In that way we can see how the criteria has not been met and also see how / if other players make successful applications to play in this country.
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Post by stokeramblers on Nov 20, 2013 16:14:13 GMT
This is too bad for Juan, but he was not the answer to our problems this year, and who knows if he would have developed into a player that would contribute to our club on a regular basis. Now we have a little more to spend in January on a player that will actually make an immediate impact. Hopefully. Although I think part of the attraction with Juan was him being a very cheap option being on a free transfer.
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Post by kenwyne on Nov 20, 2013 16:17:07 GMT
watch this kid go on and become a great player in spain or germany and we get screwed because of this bullshit
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Post by Jimm on Nov 20, 2013 16:18:16 GMT
Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back
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Post by stokiejoe on Nov 20, 2013 16:18:27 GMT
Yeah I don't get that either. I suspect it's because there is no good reason. Surely we have the legal expertise to follow this up and at least get an explanation. The procedure needs to be transparent In that way we can see how the criteria has not been met and also see how / if other players make successful applications to play in this country. We would probably be able to challenge the process, they are a quasi-judicial body. A couple of years from now after a very expensive process we may find that "talent" is a subjective matter and cannot be measured .In other words an expensive waste of time.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2013 16:18:31 GMT
Yeah I don't get that either. I suspect it's because there is no good reason. Surely we have the legal expertise to follow this up and at least get an explanation. The procedure needs to be transparent In that way we can see how the criteria has not been met and also see how / if other players make successful applications to play in this country. I don't think it matters, it's the way it's always been done I think. Standard FA bullshit.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 20, 2013 16:19:56 GMT
You have to laugh don't you! How fucking wank and inept are we?! Off to hell in a handcart.. Thankfully he was on a free. We need to get our act together very quickly. Doesn't make any difference if he was on a free or not. The contracts (the one with Agudelo and the one with his club/MLS if we had paid for him) would have been SUBJECT TO A WORK PERMIT like all contracts for non EU players are. So, even if we had been due to pay £millions, the deal would be off if he failed his work permit hearing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2013 16:20:39 GMT
Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back I can't be arsed to check but I don't think anyone has said that. Very strange.
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Post by ruts66 on Nov 20, 2013 16:20:42 GMT
They let all the shit of Europe in to claim what they want and put strain on our public services yet they won't let a young lad in that can give so much to the system? And they wonder why this country is fucked! It would appear so. There'll be thousands of new (benefit-claiming) Roma beggars and thieves 'working' the Royal Parks in January yet a young, professional athlete from our wartime ally cannot come over to contribute 40%+ of his considerable earnings to the exchequer. The FA can just fuck off...
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Post by stokiejoe on Nov 20, 2013 16:23:06 GMT
Thankfully he was on a free. We need to get our act together very quickly. Doesn't make any difference if he was on a free or not. The contracts (the one with Agudelo and the one with his club/MLS if we had paid for him) would have been SUBJECT TO A WORK PERMIT like all contracts for non EU players are. So, even if we had been due to pay £millions, the deal would be off if he failed his work permit hearing. Yes I understand that but we haven't paid anything up front either.
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Post by stokeramblers on Nov 20, 2013 16:23:22 GMT
Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back I can't be arsed to check but I don't think anyone has said that. Very strange. Could be my fault. I did jokingly make a comment that were doomed and going down... Perhaps this tweeter needs a new sarcasm detector.
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Post by Jimm on Nov 20, 2013 16:23:48 GMT
Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back I can't be arsed to check but I don't think anyone has said that. Very strange. It's the same idiot who posts on here
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 16:32:15 GMT
This is too bad for Juan, but he was not the answer to our problems this year, and who knows if he would have developed into a player that would contribute to our club on a regular basis. Now we have a little more to spend in January on a player that will actually make an immediate impact. Thing is you'll only get dogs hone cases in January if it comes to us been in a relegation scrap. We are going down chaps.
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Post by pistol on Nov 20, 2013 16:37:50 GMT
The appeal hearing probably looked at Edu and Shea and made their decision based on the fact that neither of them have started a Premier League game for us. They might have done us a favour.
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Post by ladyinred on Nov 20, 2013 16:41:19 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure that they would of considered the appeal earlier this year, where we signed a player with more international caps, paid £2mill plus and he doesnt play.
A younger player, with less caps, on a free - was always going to be a difficult ask.
Part of the argument for Willian was that Chelsea (and Spurs) were prepared to spend a huge amount of money - hence he musy be 'exceptionally talented'
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 20, 2013 16:43:03 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure that they would of considered the appeal earlier this year, where we signed a player with more international caps, paid £2mill plus and he doesnt play. A younger player, with less caps, on a free - was always going to be a difficult ask. Part of the argument for Willian was that Chelsea (and Spurs) were prepared to spend a huge amount of money - hence he musy be 'exceptionally talented' Who did we sign for £2 million plus with more caps than Agudelo?
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 20, 2013 16:44:23 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure that they would of considered the appeal earlier this year, where we signed a player with more international caps, paid £2mill plus and he doesnt play. A younger player, with less caps, on a free - was always going to be a difficult ask. Part of the argument for Willian was that Chelsea (and Spurs) were prepared to spend a huge amount of money - hence he musy be 'exceptionally talented' Who did we sign for £2 million plus with more caps than Agudelo? Shea ?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 20, 2013 16:45:09 GMT
Who did we sign for £2 million plus with more caps than Agudelo? Shea ? Yes, I have just checked - I didn't realise he had 24 caps.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 20, 2013 17:02:22 GMT
Yes dead and buried. I assume it could be possible to seek a judicial review of the process but that would be expensive and in any event too long. I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too. I have only had the chance to skim this thread so apologies if I have missed something, but everyone seemed to think this was the original permit hearing, while the above link and the quotes in it seem to make it quite clear that this was an appeal. So when the fuck was the original hearing? Is the hearing carried out, rejected, we automatically say "we appeal!" without bothering to check the relevant criteria for the granting of the work permit and they then carry out the appeal there and then?!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2013 17:04:20 GMT
I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too. I have only had the chance to skim this thread so apologies if I have missed something, but everyone seemed to think this was the original permit hearing, while the above link and the quotes in it seem to make it quite clear that this was an appeal. So when the fuck was the original hearing? Is the hearing carried out, rejected, we automatically say "we appeal!" without bothering to check the relevant criteria for the granting of the work permit and they then carry out the appeal there and then?! I have no idea but it was always going to be rejected first time around. That was never in doubt.
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Post by Squeekster on Nov 20, 2013 17:06:14 GMT
Lets get real we need to leave some space for the 30,000 plus Romainians that will flood in next year when we open up to yet more dead wood from Europe!
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Post by march4 on Nov 20, 2013 17:12:01 GMT
I told you all months ago about the likelihood of this happening.
It will be no surprise to some in the club.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 20, 2013 17:15:12 GMT
Questions:-
1. Was this an appeal? 2. If so, when was the original hearing? 3. If the original hearing had already happened, on what basis did we appeal, knowing the rules and recent comments about 'home grown' players?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:15:57 GMT
I do not understand how a reason cannot be given for this decision!!! Having gone through the process of formally making an appeal surely this cannot be a valid outcome (no explanation that is) Just when we need some positive news to lift the morale both on and off the pitch too. I have only had the chance to skim this thread so apologies if I have missed something, but everyone seemed to think this was the original permit hearing, while the above link and the quotes in it seem to make it quite clear that this was an appeal. So when the fuck was the original hearing? Is the hearing carried out, rejected, we automatically say "we appeal!" without bothering to check the relevant criteria for the granting of the work permit and they then carry out the appeal there and then?! nope, we'd have known he didn't fit the criteria for a work permit before we'd even signed any pre-contract with him anyway but would have seen it as perfectly reasonable that we could argue our case using precedents of literally scores of other players in all 4 leagues who have got a work permit due to other factors (the fact most the games he missed were solely because of injury, he is obviously extremely talented given the age of his first cap and his continued inclusion in the national side since then etc.) the initial hearing would automatically be turned down because he doesn't fit the criteria so we then appeal and get the chance to put those arguments forward. as i've said, there are many many players who have been let in with far less to base any kind of a case on but because Dyke wanted to make a name for himself in his new role it's obviously been turned down because of this big push for bringing through english talent (which hadn't been mentioned by Dyke BEFORE we made our agreements with Agudelo).....basically it will be a case of using this as setting an example to make Dyke's campaign look good (whilst feverishly campaigning in the background to get a Belgian youngster with Kosovan and Albanian roots to agree to play for England) two words...one is Joke and the other rhymes with bucking!
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