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Post by stokeyank on Nov 20, 2013 17:15:59 GMT
Just a couple curious questions if anyone know (I don't feel like taking the time to look it up myself).
Can he re-apply for a permit in the future (how long)?
And if so could we sign him to a contract and loan him back to an MLS side until that time passes??
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 20, 2013 17:17:28 GMT
I'm not arsed.
At least this will now ensure we channel all our energies into getting a couple of strikers who will hit the ground running in Jan.
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 20, 2013 17:18:50 GMT
Robert Prytz all over again! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif)
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 20, 2013 17:20:36 GMT
I would hope that the club weren't seeing this as their plan A striker seeing as he was young, unproven and very cheap otherwise it just goes to prove that the Coates family are definitely not intending to put any more funds into the club. We need to get a player who can hit the ground running NOW, Agudelo was more likely "one for the future" ........not a phrase I like but seems appropriate in his case seeing as he was on a FREE.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 20, 2013 17:21:34 GMT
I have only had the chance to skim this thread so apologies if I have missed something, but everyone seemed to think this was the original permit hearing, while the above link and the quotes in it seem to make it quite clear that this was an appeal. So when the fuck was the original hearing? Is the hearing carried out, rejected, we automatically say "we appeal!" without bothering to check the relevant criteria for the granting of the work permit and they then carry out the appeal there and then?! ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/vEIFeJPtIIq1awrUd6zP.gif) nope, we'd have known he didn't fit the criteria for a work permit before we'd even signed any pre-contract with him anyway but would have seen it as perfectly reasonable that we could argue our case using precedents of literally scores of other players in all 4 leagues who have got a work permit due to other factors (the fact most the games he missed were solely because of injury, he is obviously extremely talented given the age of his first cap and his continued inclusion in the national side since then etc.) the initial hearing would automatically be turned down because he doesn't fit the criteria so we then appeal and get the chance to put those arguments forward. as i've said, there are many many players who have been let in with far less to base any kind of a case on but because Dyke wanted to make a name for himself in his new role it's obviously been turned down because of this big push for bringing through english talent (which hadn't been mentioned by Dyke BEFORE we made our agreements with Agudelo).....basically it will be a case of using this as setting an example to make Dyke's campaign look good (whilst feverishly campaigning in the background to get a Belgian youngster with Kosovan and Albanian roots to agree to play for England) two words...one is Joke and the other rhymes with bucking! Cheers Mick. So basically there is no actual intial hearing, just the right to appeal a desicion that you knew was always going to go against you. You couldn't make this shite up could you. ![(whiteflag)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/HArWf7IGynTyf0kQFpe_.gif)
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Nov 20, 2013 17:23:37 GMT
Ridiculous
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Post by RichardTMP on Nov 20, 2013 17:25:31 GMT
Rudolph Austin spring to mind?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:27:31 GMT
I told you all months ago about the likelihood of this happening. It will be no surprise to some in the club. Get thee tin hat on youth. The usual clan be along shortly claiming you know fcuk all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:31:18 GMT
I'm not arsed. At least this will now ensure we channel all our energies into getting a couple of strikers who will hit the ground running in Jan. You really believe we'll be attracting a couple of strikers that'll hit the ground running in January?. You won't be getting quality strikers least of all in january, well not unless they've hit the dogs home we won't. Certainly won't be strikers that are ready to hit the ground running.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 20, 2013 17:38:25 GMT
I'm not arsed. At least this will now ensure we channel all our energies into getting a couple of strikers who will hit the ground running in Jan. You really believe we'll be attracting a couple of strikers that'll hit the ground running in January?. You won't be getting quality strikers least of all in january, well not unless they've hit the dogs home we won't. Certainly won't be strikers that are ready to hit the ground running. I disagree. Coates will open his chequebook if we are anywhere near the bottom 3. He won't risk our premier league status. There was money available in the summer but Hughes chose to go with what he had and wait until the right players were available.
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Post by interestedobserver on Nov 20, 2013 17:44:17 GMT
I'm not trying to rant on Shea, but it's near fact that Shea sucks and always has. Yet you can see he is one of the most popular players even when he embarrasses himself in most games. I'm convinced the panel cares about money more then any one wants to believe. Honestly who doesn't bend rules when profits can be increased. what money would the FA have got by giving Shea a work permit? if US fans love Shea (rightly or wrongly) then fair enough Stoke may sell more shirts but how would the FA make money out of it? I know this was a few weeks ago and you were probably just naive about the worldwide Brek Shea conspiracy. Hopefully, by now you've realized the breadth of the Shea conspiracy and how high up it goes. I'd say more. But I'm afraid to draw too much attention to myself. I don't need them tracking me down and eliminating me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:48:58 GMT
You really believe we'll be attracting a couple of strikers that'll hit the ground running in January?. You won't be getting quality strikers least of all in january, well not unless they've hit the dogs home we won't. Certainly won't be strikers that are ready to hit the ground running. I disagree. Coates will open his chequebook if we are anywhere near the bottom 3. He won't risk our premier league status. There was money available in the summer but Hughes chose to go with what he had and wait until the right players were available. Difference between Coates opening his cheque book and players wanting to come. No decency available cone January, well certainly not someone proven to get prem goals anyway.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 20, 2013 17:52:47 GMT
Ah well, he was never going to be in the first team anyway, those that thought he would be coming here and get thrown straight in were being very naive.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 17:53:04 GMT
![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif) Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back You seriously need a hobby, stalk me a little further and you'll realise the latter was sarcasm. Also thanks for the other abusive post, kindly point out your twitter and facebook to me and I'll happily ensure I don't annoy you any further.
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Post by bolders on Nov 20, 2013 17:54:31 GMT
We might still buy him and send him to Belgium or holland to gain the necessary games to qualify, just like Chelsea and Man U do
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Post by Jimm on Nov 20, 2013 18:02:36 GMT
(lol) Jason Martin ?@scfcjase The implosion is incredible, mind. Missing out on Agudelo has somehow relegated us Jason Martin ?@scfcjase Pulis could get work permits, Hughes Out bring TP back You seriously need a hobby, stalk me a little further and you'll realise the latter was sarcasm. Also thanks for the other abusive post, kindly point out your twitter and facebook to me and I'll happily ensure I don't annoy you any further. Typing Aguedelo into twitter search is hardly stalking you is it & if you class that was being abusive then you must be a bit square
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 18:07:25 GMT
Poor little jimmy wouldn't let go.
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Post by huuuuuth on Nov 20, 2013 18:16:02 GMT
Robert Prytz all over again! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif) I remember that Rob ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cGxK1LQ3mbwGz59PPCrG.gif) Went on to be a top player for Rangers didn't he? ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) The positive we can take from Agudelo is we've now got no choice but to splash out on someone decent in Jan. Had a bit of an uneasy feeling (probably wrong though ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) )that the club was hoping he'd be the one to "hit the ground running"
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 20, 2013 18:19:05 GMT
Robert Prytz all over again! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif) I remember that Rob ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cGxK1LQ3mbwGz59PPCrG.gif) Went on to be a top player for Rangers didn't he? ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) The positive we can take from Agudelo is we've now got no choice but to splash out on someone decent in Jan. Had a bit of an uneasy feeling (probably wrong though ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) )that the club was hoping he'd be the one to "hit the ground running" Agudelo certainly have something special about him so I believe he could have been a future star here, but no use crying over spilt milk! Move on, but move fast! ![(bye)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/sxlha3OWhqFVd36WaQ0c.gif)
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 20, 2013 18:26:44 GMT
Robert Prytz all over again! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif) I remember that Rob ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cGxK1LQ3mbwGz59PPCrG.gif) Went on to be a top player for Rangers didn't he? The positive we can take from Agudelo is we've now got no choice but to splash out on someone decent in Jan.Had a bit of an uneasy feeling (probably wrong though ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) )that the club was hoping he'd be the one to "hit the ground running" We would have had to do that anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 18:29:14 GMT
The appeal hearing probably looked at Edu and Shea and made their decision based on the fact that neither of them have started a Premier League game for us. They might have done us a favour. I tried saying this in the original post. It fell on deaf ears.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 20, 2013 18:29:51 GMT
A decision that reeks of hypocracy and small club bullying. If this was Man Utd, Chelsea etc this deal would have gone through. 20 year old player with 17 caps for a country ranked 13th to England's 10th and Brazil's 11th.
How did Chelsea get Willian in? He is 25 and has only played 4 games for Brazil.
Its absolute bollocks. It seems our own FA is open to corrupt decision making as as FIFA.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 20, 2013 18:42:32 GMT
A decision that reeks of hypocracy and small club bullying. If this was Man Utd, Chelsea etc this deal would have gone through. 20 year old player with 17 caps for a country ranked 13th to England's 10th and Brazil's 11th. How did Chelsea get Willian in? He is 25 and has only played 4 games for Brazil. Its absolute bollocks. It seems our own FA is open to corrupt decision making as as FIFA. That is an interesting comparison , sadly money talks in football far too loudly and a lot spent on Wilian compared to little here, shame but would have needed a lot of time to adjust anyway so we plod on as usual
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 20, 2013 18:51:13 GMT
A decision that reeks of hypocracy and small club bullying. If this was Man Utd, Chelsea etc this deal would have gone through. 20 year old player with 17 caps for a country ranked 13th to England's 10th and Brazil's 11th. How did Chelsea get Willian in? He is 25 and has only played 4 games for Brazil. Its absolute bollocks. It seems our own FA is open to corrupt decision making as as FIFA. That is an interesting comparison , sadly money talks in football far too loudly and a lot spent on Wilian compared to little here, shame but would have needed a lot of time to adjust anyway so we plod on as usual How on earth could they turn it down if that information about Willian is correct!? Things like that really makes me go mad! UNFAIR!!! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif)
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 20, 2013 18:58:38 GMT
I am led to believe that Mark Hughes wanted to sign Agudelo. He wasn't something brought to us by Cartwright and Beswicks, though he may or may not be their client. I don't know.
How Hughes was interested I don't know and whilst it seems far-fetched, apparently Hughes tried to take Agudelo to Man City. I guess that would have made him 16 or 17 at the time.
The source for this information is usually impeccable but I have to admit to being surprised by this. If true, I suspect that Hughes may well be very disappointed at the outcome of the tribunal, which in itself is ridiculous given the revenue that the player would be bringing into the country.
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Post by jeycov on Nov 20, 2013 19:00:38 GMT
A decision that reeks of hypocracy and small club bullying. If this was Man Utd, Chelsea etc this deal would have gone through. 20 year old player with 17 caps for a country ranked 13th to England's 10th and Brazil's 11th. How did Chelsea get Willian in? He is 25 and has only played 4 games for Brazil. Its absolute bollocks. It seems our own FA is open to corrupt decision making as as FIFA. I agree and the fact that the FA don't have to explain the decision is ridiculous. (Don't other foreigners who apply for a work permit here, get some reasons given for any decision made regarding their application?) If the system does not allow any sort of feedback from their decision, then there is no accountability and as mentioned it will be impossible to measure how "fair" this situation is for us. This case should be argued regardless of whether he would be ready to play for us or not! If it would not cost us too much. could we loan him to another European Club as suggested in an earlier post? Yes we need to prioritise a couple of other strikers (hopefully we are anyway) but this smacks of one rule for the elite and another for the riff raff
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Post by unknown182 on Nov 20, 2013 19:02:31 GMT
That is an interesting comparison , sadly money talks in football far too loudly and a lot spent on Wilian compared to little here, shame but would have needed a lot of time to adjust anyway so we plod on as usual How on earth could they turn it down if that information about Willian is correct!? Things like that really makes me go mad! UNFAIR!!! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif) I read somewhere Mourinho argued that if Willian was of a different nationality then he would of played more international football. Which is outrageous if true.
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Post by stokeramblers on Nov 20, 2013 19:16:58 GMT
I am led to believe that Mark Hughes wanted to sign Agudelo. He wasn't something brought to us by Cartwright and Beswicks, though he may or may not be their client. I don't know. How Hughes was interested I don't know and whilst it seems far-fetched, apparently Hughes tried to take Agudelo to Man City. I guess that would have made him 16 or 17 at the time. The source for this information is usually impeccable but I have to admit to being surprised by this. If true, I suspect that Hughes may well be very disappointed at the outcome of the tribunal, which in itself is ridiculous given the revenue that the player would be bringing into the country. Hughes has said that himself in a press conference.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 20, 2013 19:18:10 GMT
That is an interesting comparison , sadly money talks in football far too loudly and a lot spent on Wilian compared to little here, shame but would have needed a lot of time to adjust anyway so we plod on as usual How on earth could they turn it down if that information about Willian is correct!? Things like that really makes me go mad! UNFAIR!!! ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3fpOQXhXVXuSM73B6hK4.gif) Yep Chelsea and clubs like them seem to dislike hearing no for an answer and have the means and ways to influence people fairness does not come into it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 19:20:59 GMT
Gary Mellor's replied to someone on Twitter, saying he's in the US and will talk to his agent and the club. Assume it's dead but we'll have to see what happens.
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