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Post by foster on Sept 3, 2013 8:30:48 GMT
Perfectly acceptable to be questioning why Hughes hasn't been backed to even a third of what Pulis got, especially when TV revenue has rocketed. After all, Coates has previous ... Not saying he's gone back to that yet but the signs are definitely there. Once bitten... and all that. Perhaps Sparky has got what he wants,who from the club has said targets were missed,all speculation and rumour perhaps!also the Coates family owe supporters nothing. do the supporters owe them?No.
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Post by MrMagic on Sept 3, 2013 8:53:01 GMT
However it's dressed up, as far as I know only Newcastle UTD have spent less than Stoke in this window. Yes, that's the Newcastle UTD that everyone is laughing at. It really does look like the plug has been pulled on spending, which is more than frustrating. With a good forward on top of what we've got, we'd be looking like genuine top 10 challengers. As it is I'm not sure we are. When you pull out of a deal for Peter Odemwingie because the price has gone too high, then alarm bells should be ringing.
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Post by foster on Sept 3, 2013 8:55:23 GMT
However it's dressed up, as far as I know only Newcastle UTD have spent less than Stoke in this window. Yes, that's the Newcastle UTD that everyone is laughing at. It really does look like the plug has been pulled on spending, which is more than frustrating. With a good forward on top of what we've got, we'd be looking like genuine top 10 challengers. As it is I'm not sure we are. When you pull out of a deal for Peter Odemwingie because the price has gone too high, then alarm bells should be ringing. People are laughing at them because they didn't sign anyone, not because they spent no money. I think most people who know anything about football transfers would say that we've done exceptionally well from a financial perspective. Would spending 20m on Carlton Cole make you feel better.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 3, 2013 9:05:56 GMT
However it's dressed up, as far as I know only Newcastle UTD have spent less than Stoke in this window. Yes, that's the Newcastle UTD that everyone is laughing at. It really does look like the plug has been pulled on spending, which is more than frustrating. With a good forward on top of what we've got, we'd be looking like genuine top 10 challengers. As it is I'm not sure we are. When you pull out of a deal for Peter Odemwingie because the price has gone too high, then alarm bells should be ringing. People are laughing at them because they didn't sign anyone, not because they spent no money. I think most people who know anything about football transfers would say that we've done exceptionally well from a financial perspective. Would spending 20m on Carlton Cole make you feel better. Foster, I agree 100% with this. Looked at in terms of money spent, we have not spent much . Looked at in terms of how the squad differs from that of last season, Sparky has achieved a lot. # We have switched from a 442 to a 433/451 and have brought in the players to make that happen. # We finally have a proper left back and and under 21 Spanish International as cover and a back 4 which at long last can help the team attack as well as defend # We have a midfield squad which perms 3 from Wilson, Whelan, N'Zonzi, Adam amd Ireland (once up to speed) - that's by far the best looking midfield we have had in over 25 years. # We have two International wide strikers/wingers with genuine pace with Ethers and Pennant as cover. # The only area we have not strengthened is main striker although we a) have Agudelo arriving in January and b) have a manager prepared to pick an in form Jones over and out of form Crouch. We've done all this for a transfer outlay of less than £7 million WHICH WILL LEAVE PLENTY OF MONEY TO STRENGTHEN IN JANUARY IF NEEDS BE. Of course it isn't perfect but, for my money, its bloody impressive. Comparing us with Newcastle's summer is laughable.
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Post by casper113 on Sept 3, 2013 9:17:10 GMT
Obviously recouping the investment. Don't blame them if I'm honest. This. WTF do people expect? Solid gold seats, along with the girl of your dreams serving up popcorn and Pedigree while Messi lays it off to Rooney who slips a beautiful pass in to Ronaldo? Take a look at the price of your ticket... WHO THE FCUK WOULD WANT ROONEY
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Post by MrMagic on Sept 3, 2013 9:18:54 GMT
However it's dressed up, as far as I know only Newcastle UTD have spent less than Stoke in this window. Yes, that's the Newcastle UTD that everyone is laughing at. It really does look like the plug has been pulled on spending, which is more than frustrating. With a good forward on top of what we've got, we'd be looking like genuine top 10 challengers. As it is I'm not sure we are. When you pull out of a deal for Peter Odemwingie because the price has gone too high, then alarm bells should be ringing. People are laughing at them because they didn't sign anyone, not because they spent no money. I think most people who know anything about football transfers would say that we've done exceptionally well from a financial perspective. Would spending 20m on Carlton Cole make you feel better. Of course the business that we've done has been exceptional. I'm not denying that. You've missed the point of my concern entirely. We've seemingly come a long way this window, but the lack of improvement in the striker department could see us missing out on a great opportunity to really leap forwards. Of course I don't want us to spend tens of millions on an overpriced ageing forward, want that one of the nails in Pulis coffin? There is, and has been value out there, and given the choice I'd have rather skipped the Ireland deal and loaned a striker. Not saying its all bad, far from it, but you'd have to be blind and stupid not to see the glaringly obvious about the change to financial approach here.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 3, 2013 9:21:43 GMT
I think my view has been far more consistent than your own Mark. Despite being a Pulis fan I have always been a critic of our transfer window activities and although Pulis's backing was fulsome, the windows were riddled with missed first targets, lack of planning and a general sense of fuckwittery. This window (despite as you put it, 'our professional recruitment team') has been riddled with the exact same apparent blazing incompetence. You cannot in all seriousness chase various renowned strikers for four months then profess yourself happy with the window when we haven't signed one. I think the quality in the squad is pretty good but it is unbalanced and to say we have strengthened 'across the squad' is just dizzy 'Pulis is gone' fabrication, I'm afraid! I reckon we're more balanced than last season. Rome wasn't built in a day mate. ps - I do accept paypal. It's over now Fozzo thank God and I think the squad is more than good enough to keep away from the bottom three but I still find elements of our business somewhere between puzzling and disappointing. The fact that Begovic is still here is probably the single biggest 'highlight', the lack of a long chased main central striker the 'low light'. The midnight departure of Jerome, the 'are you fucking taking the piss' light!
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Post by MrMagic on Sept 3, 2013 9:22:05 GMT
People are laughing at them because they didn't sign anyone, not because they spent no money. I think most people who know anything about football transfers would say that we've done exceptionally well from a financial perspective. Would spending 20m on Carlton Cole make you feel better. Foster, I agree 100% with this. Looked at in terms of money spent, we have not spent much . Looked at in terms of how the squad differs from that of last season, Sparky has achieved a lot. # We have switched from a 442 to a 433/451 and have brought in the players to make that happen. # We finally have a proper left back and and under 21 Spanish International as cover and a back 4 which at long last can help the team attack as well as defend # We have a midfield squad which perms 3 from Wilson, Whelan, N'Zonzi, Adam amd Ireland (once up to speed) - that's by far the best looking midfield we have had in over 25 years. # We have two International wide strikers/wingers with genuine pace with Ethers and Pennant as cover. # The only area we have not strengthened is main striker although we a) have Agudelo arriving in January and b) have a manager prepared to pick an in form Jones over and out of form Crouch. We've done all this for a transfer outlay of less than £7 million WHICH WILL LEAVE PLENTY OF MONEY TO STRENGTHEN IN JANUARY IF NEEDS BE. Of course it isn't perfect but, for my money, its bloody impressive. Comparing us with Newcastle's summer is laughable. What's laughable Lakeland is the inability to understand that what I posted is a fact rather than a comparison! Only Newcastle have spent less this window, as opposed to previous windows where we have been one of the higher spenders. I'm not saying I want us to blow £20m on anyone, but surely you can see that there has been a change of stance?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 3, 2013 9:26:40 GMT
Mt M, you are the one who chose to bring in the fact that everyone was laughing at Newcastle. My point and that of foster is that, although we have spent very little, we have improved the squad - and very few in the football world will be laughing at us. You may not agree, but I think we've had a good window and if we have a good window whilst at the same time taking steps on the road to make the club self sustaining, I'm delighted and not at all critical.
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Post by MrMagic on Sept 3, 2013 9:32:34 GMT
Mt M, you are the one who chose to bring in the fact that everyone was laughing at Newcastle. My point and that of foster is that, although we have spent very little, we have improved the squad - and very few in the football world will be laughing at us. You may not agree, but I think we've had a good window and if we have a good window whilst at the same time taking steps on the road to make the club self sustaining, I'm delighted and not at all critical. I've said I'm happy with the business we have done Lakeland. In fact in Pieters and ArnautovicI think we've done unbelievable business. However, coming out in the media in July stating that the first task Hughes gave Cartwright was to find a top-ten striker, spending all window chasing various strikers and then failing to sign one does raise some questions in my opinion.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 3, 2013 9:42:13 GMT
Mt M, you are the one who chose to bring in the fact that everyone was laughing at Newcastle. My point and that of foster is that, although we have spent very little, we have improved the squad - and very few in the football world will be laughing at us. You may not agree, but I think we've had a good window and if we have a good window whilst at the same time taking steps on the road to make the club self sustaining, I'm delighted and not at all critical. I've said I'm happy with the business we have done Lakeland. In fact in Pieters and ArnautovicI think we've done unbelievable business. However, coming out in the media in July stating that the first task Hughes gave Cartwright was to find a top-ten striker, spending all window chasing various strikers and then failing to sign one does raise some questions in my opinion. We did sign one - Agudelo but, of course he is not available until January. I think Hughes still wants Diouf and I presume we'll try again in January to sign him on a pre contract and then maybe offer his club a couple of £million to bring the deal forward. I'd have liked to see a loan striker to bridge the gap. Lukaku would have been ideal but I suppose Everton still have that star appeal for the moment. But, to be honest, the lack of a new striker is the only significant fault I can find with the window - and even then I take comfort in the fact that Hughes is prepared to play Jones ahead of Crouch. I take some consolation in the fact that I expect significant strengthening in January. Not a bad window in my book.
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Post by hollybush on Sept 3, 2013 9:51:50 GMT
And again we have the usual suspects adding 2 and 2 and making 5,000,000. Just because we didn't sign a striker doesn't mean any of the following:-
1) Hughes wasn't allowed to sped the money.
2) The scouting team are so shit they couldn't find one.
3) Scholes is a wanker.
All these are fabrications, because nobody knows why.
Maybe the striker(s) we were pursuing were over-priced by their existing clubs.
Maybe they were asking ridiculous wages.
Maybe they were being hawked around by their agents and wouldn't really move unless a Champions League club wanted them.
The problem all clubs of our size face is that every club out there is desperate for a 15-20 goal a season striker, and there just aren't enough to go round.
Imagine if we'd paid £20 million for some unknown striker and he was a flop. How much stick would Hughes, Cartwright et al have got then?
If anybody can show me hard evidence that the purse strings have been tied shut, I'll happily accept it, but you all know damn well that you can't. It's all agenda based, speculative bollocks and you know it.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 3, 2013 9:59:33 GMT
That bloke Everton signed 30 million? More than Fellani? Fucking Hell ever likely we didn't sign a top ten striker.
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Post by MrMagic on Sept 3, 2013 10:00:26 GMT
Hollybush - of course non of us know the truth about finances. We've spent less this summer on all of our signings than we've spent on one benchwarmer who can't play if its a bit gusty, in the past. That's not a bad thing at all, but clearly there has been a change of approach. If you can't see that then I'd look a little closer to home on the agenda front.
Lakeland - I agree its been a good window aside from the striker aspect. The frustration for me isn't that I think we've done poor business, far from it. It's that we seem to be one piece of the jigsaw away from having a bloody fantastic chance at a top ten finish.
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Post by foster on Sept 3, 2013 10:02:21 GMT
Hollybush - of course non of us know the truth about finances. We've spent less this summer on all of our signings than we've spent on one benchwarmer who can't play if its a bit gusty, in the past. That's not a bad thing at all, but clearly there has been a change of approach. If you can't see that then I'd look a little closer to home on the agenda front. Lakeland - I agree its been a good window aside from the striker aspect. The frustration for me isn't that I think we've done poor business, far from it. It's that we seem to be one piece of the jigsaw away from having a bloody fantastic chance at a top ten finish. If we don't spend anything in January then I'll be inclined to agree. But I wouldn't assume that we've had a change in approach based solely on one transfer window.
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Post by stokecity4life on Sept 3, 2013 10:04:49 GMT
One simple answer to this - Brilliant Business.
Well done Coates et al.
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Post by hollybush on Sept 3, 2013 10:08:47 GMT
Hollybush - of course non of us know the truth about finances. We've spent less this summer on all of our signings than we've spent on one benchwarmer who can't play if its a bit gusty, in the past. That's not a bad thing at all, but clearly there has been a change of approach. If you can't see that then I'd look a little closer to home on the agenda front. Lakeland - I agree its been a good window aside from the striker aspect. The frustration for me isn't that I think we've done poor business, far from it. It's that we seem to be one piece of the jigsaw away from having a bloody fantastic chance at a top ten finish. Your opinion, not 'clearly a change of approach'. We all know that Hughes has been tasked with not throwing money away on ageing pros with no resale value, but that doesn't mean he can't spend decent money on younger players. The problem is that those players, if we're talking about paying £10 to £15 million pounds or more, aren't going to want to come to Stoke anyway. The kind of players who would improve us, and also aren't necessarily looking for a club playing in European competition, are exactly the £2 or £3 million pound players we've actually bought, or the likes of Diouf, who's club don't want to sell.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2013 10:10:49 GMT
Wages, Away Travel, Ground Maintenance, potential future funds.
Clearly, some people are a bit reactionary and think because we didn't blow 66 million on more players that we're going to go down. Who says that Coates won't release that money to Hughes in January, or even next season. I genuinely believe we'll stay up no problem. If Coates offers Hughes 80 odd million, considering the banked cash + TV money next year, we could sign 3 or 4 very very good players.
Coates has put shed loads into this club, right from his own pocket, I think you should give the guy some credit.
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Post by foster on Sept 3, 2013 10:13:29 GMT
Wages, Away Travel, Ground Maintenance, potential future funds. Clearly, some people are a bit reactionary and think because we didn't blow 66 million on more players that we're going to go down. Who says that Coates won't release that money to Hughes in January, or even next season. I genuinely believe we'll stay up no problem. If Coates offers Hughes 80 odd million, considering the banked cash + TV money next year, we could sign 3 or 4 very very good players. Coates has put shed loads into this club, right from his own pocket, I think you should give the guy some credit. I'd wager that he would recoup more than he's invested from his own pocket if he ever decides to sell up. Speculate to accumulate.
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Post by nzstokie on Sept 3, 2013 10:14:17 GMT
Surely its just too early to say how successful or unsuccessful this window will turn out too be. Hughes understands through bitter experience that splashing the cash does not guarantee success. He has also stated a few times now that he has inherited a squad of with great spirit and professionalism who a enjoying the opportunity to express themselves on the pitch. Lets just give it a bit of time before worrying too much about what's been spent.
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Post by primmerz on Sept 3, 2013 10:21:31 GMT
We added quality in areas we needed to improve in and got some bargains. Shows you don't need to spunk money up the wall to get what we needed, people moaned when we wasted millions on average players, now people moan when we add good players for cheap as chips that actually improved our side!
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2013 10:26:38 GMT
Wages, Away Travel, Ground Maintenance, potential future funds. Clearly, some people are a bit reactionary and think because we didn't blow 66 million on more players that we're going to go down. Who says that Coates won't release that money to Hughes in January, or even next season. I genuinely believe we'll stay up no problem. If Coates offers Hughes 80 odd million, considering the banked cash + TV money next year, we could sign 3 or 4 very very good players. Coates has put shed loads into this club, right from his own pocket, I think you should give the guy some credit. I'd wager that he would recoup more than he's invested from his own pocket if he ever decides to sell up. Speculate to accumulate. Of course foster, but what's your point? When he took over, we were a pretty cash strapped club with some rather ordinary players and low turnouts at the ground (I remember when we had 10k odd in March). We didn't even own the ground fully. He's invested money, lots of it, and it's starting to pay off. How's that a bad thing? He's run the club as both a hobby and a business, and we're now a much better club for it. If Coates sold the club for a massive profit tomorrow he should be congratulated on his success and thanked for his contribution to this football club.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 3, 2013 10:36:50 GMT
After the window we are stronger than we were going in, partly I have to say due to Hughes and his team turning the style around. Wahtever the reason, Kenwynne looked a new man on Saturday as did N'Zonzi, add in two full backs way better than last year, Wilson looking very comfortable and Arny and the option of Asaidi off the bench up front an dit is hard to argue we are stornger in 6 or 7 positions than last year and the other 4 are begovic, Huth, Shawcross and Adam, the last of which has Ireland as a wild card. I would say squad is strongest outside of the top 7 or 8 and team is a definite top 10 contender. My guess is we were willing to spend for clear improvement but not a squad player and couldn't find a target willing to come. We have depth, 3 international goalies no less, and we should rightly wait for quality. Moving Jerome on was also right, he is not smart enough as a footballer to play in a porgressive 4-3-3 as we are developing, he is a player suited to the long ball 4-4-2 approach
We are doing what people wanted especially the TP critics, evolving, not wasting money, shopping abroad for bargains. Now we have to give it time
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Sept 3, 2013 10:38:44 GMT
People are laughing at them because they didn't sign anyone, not because they spent no money. I think most people who know anything about football transfers would say that we've done exceptionally well from a financial perspective. Would spending 20m on Carlton Cole make you feel better. Foster, I agree 100% with this. Looked at in terms of money spent, we have not spent much . Looked at in terms of how the squad differs from that of last season, Sparky has achieved a lot. # We have switched from a 442 to a 433/451 and have brought in the players to make that happen. # We finally have a proper left back and and under 21 Spanish International as cover and a back 4 which at long last can help the team attack as well as defend # We have a midfield squad which perms 3 from Wilson, Whelan, N'Zonzi, Adam amd Ireland (once up to speed) - that's by far the best looking midfield we have had in over 25 years. # We have two International wide strikers/wingers with genuine pace with Ethers and Pennant as cover. # The only area we have not strengthened is main striker although we a) have Agudelo arriving in January and b) have a manager prepared to pick an in form Jones over and out of form Crouch. We've done all this for a transfer outlay of less than £7 million WHICH WILL LEAVE PLENTY OF MONEY TO STRENGTHEN IN JANUARY IF NEEDS BE. Of course it isn't perfect but, for my money, its bloody impressive. Comparing us with Newcastle's summer is laughable. Totally agree a remarkable job has been done with such little resource, would have liked to sign Ireland and saved the loan for a Lukaku, Ba, Defoe but it looks like those avenues were pursued with no end result. I think the era of spending big on "stars" is over having said that and we are going to have to be as canny in future as we have been in this window
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 3, 2013 10:44:03 GMT
Utter fucking jizz bollocks. You are clearly not up to speed with "the legacy" Sheiky! Or did you think the millions we were spending on players that had ten parts of fuck all resale value was a never ending and sustainable gift from the fairies that would never catch up with us? Perhaps its that twat Cartwright"s doing again? But TP's spending has created value, our player asset base is worth about £80 million, Bego, Shawcross, Huth, Cameron, Wilson, N'Zonzi all worth more than we paid for them. Together with appreciation of the ground and TV money, no case to say we couldn't have spent if we wanted to this window. more we couldn't get the targets we want and we have depth and quality we are happy with. We also have an increasing wage bill and that is the key driver of success. TP creted a great platform, established us in the league and we are now moving ahead, much faster and better than I imagined. People may not like TP or his style of football but the facts are clear, 5 years in the Premier League, massive generation of cash and a club more valuable when he left than when he came.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 3, 2013 10:49:35 GMT
The squad is far improved in my opinion, I'd much rather have that than pay over the odds for half decent players.
Being as though we've spent about £12304040404040404 million (speculation) over the last few years, I don't blame Coates for being a bit more restrained this window. If that is even the case anyway.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 3, 2013 10:51:46 GMT
maybe paying back some of the £86,000,000 coates has put into the club Anyone would think this is from his own personal wealth. No-one was asking for tens of millions but it is frustrating when we are a goalscorer away from something very exciting. Just seems the purse strings have been tightened at the most inconvenient time. I have faith in Hughes to do very well with what he's got and as long as he's happy with what he's been given so that he doesn't walk away prematurely ...
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 3, 2013 10:52:34 GMT
You are clearly not up to speed with "the legacy" Sheiky! Or did you think the millions we were spending on players that had ten parts of fuck all resale value was a never ending and sustainable gift from the fairies that would never catch up with us? Perhaps its that twat Cartwright"s doing again? But TP's spending has created value, our player asset base is worth about £80 million, Bego, Shawcross, Huth, Cameron, Wilson, N'Zonzi all worth more than we paid for them. Together with appreciation of the ground and TV money, no case to say we couldn't have spent if we wanted to this window. more we couldn't get the targets we want and we have depth and quality we are happy with. We also have an increasing wage bill and that is the key driver of success. TP creted a great platform, established us in the league and we are now moving ahead, much faster and better than I imagined. People may not like TP or his style of football but the facts are clear, 5 years in the Premier League, massive generation of cash and a club more valuable when he left than when he came. The club is more valuable, but we've also spent tonnes of money on players with no re-sale value. Crouch for £10 million? Whitehead for £5 million? We'll be lucky if we recoup £500,000 from Crouch.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 3, 2013 10:58:01 GMT
maybe paying back some of the £86,000,000 coates has put into the club Anyone would think this is from his own personal wealth. No-one was asking for tens of millions but it is frustrating when we are a goalscorer away from something very exciting. Just seems the purse strings have been tightened at the most inconvenient time. I have faith in Hughes to do very well with what he's got and as long as he's happy with what he's been given so that he doesn't walk away prematurely ... He should be happy with a job at this stage, no one was going to touch him with a barge pole after QPR. After all the criticism Coates got for throwing money at Pulis, I don't blame him with showing restraint with a manager who also has a habit of spunking money on middling players.
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Post by maxdecarlo on Sept 3, 2013 10:59:46 GMT
remarkable job- your having a laugh! we have boughtmainly garbage that no other premier league teams who have mid table pretenssions would touch with a bargepole! pennant- no prem games for 12 months was agrbage at wolves assaidi- could even get a game for a very poor liverpool outfit last season-4 europa league games- he was linked to the championship not any other prem team. One decent tackle on him early doors and you wont see him again! marco - he obviously has major issues and is a gamble- clearly has talent but the special one called him ' a child' does not bode well but he fits the coates mantra- e was cheap ireland- what a joke the only other club seriously interested were middlesbrough- hes hardly played in 12 months its laughable to suggest he can improve the team- who would you want on the beanch- ireland or jerome!!!!!!!!!!!! muniesa-has played one senior game in 4 years suffererd a career threatening knee injury- again he was cheap and looking at him against walsall he clearly is not up to the prem peters- may be ok but was woeful v liverpool and his crosssing on saturday was abysmal- jury out
to suggest we have had a good window is ludicrous- goal scoring was a priority and we have not addressed that at all-in fact having lost jerome we are weaker up front and to suggest marko is a forward is a joke
coates has reined it in as the club has served its purpose- for him and bet 365--
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