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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2013 16:51:21 GMT
Peter Coates is a staunch Labour Party supporter. I don't share his politics but I'm delighted that, as long as he is in charge of the club, the chances of an admitted Fascist being appointed manager are as close to zero as makes no difference. I don't know Denise's politics but I doubt she has moved far enough from her father's politics to be happy with bet365 being associated with a club with a Fascist manager. So, it looks as though the Potters can count on my support for a good few years yet!
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Post by dime on Apr 1, 2013 16:53:30 GMT
Okay, this is a pretty deep subject for the Oatcake and one that should probably be put to bed! Italy had death camps true. Looking for someone or something ro blame, Mussolini turned on the Italian Communist party after Caporetto and the political and social fallout from WW1, wrongly of course, Mussolini was at one time a staunch Communist supporter and writer for Communist papers i think. I'm not bringing this up as justification for Italian death camps or the persecution of Slavs but his motivation was generally political rather than racial I think. I could be wrong on this however, but I think Italian persecution of the Jews was as other have said more in keeping with the nazi agenda, I don't think Mussolini gave a shit about the Jews. You are right, death camps are not a necessary part of war, but we've all used them at some point in our murky history Some pesky cunts called "The British" invented concentration camps. No, the British invented the term "concentration camps" the first use was in Poland, besides the "concentration camps used by Britain during the 2nd Boer war, and many countries since are far, far removed from the Nazi extermination camps. Incidentally the Italian death camp mentioned on this thread was a German installment in the German puppet state of Northern Italy. Fascism and Nazism are not interchangeable.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 16:54:42 GMT
Some pesky cunts called "The British" invented concentration camps. No, the British invented the term "concentration camps" the first use was from the Polish, besides the "concentration camps used by Britain during the 2nd Boer war, and many countries since are far, far removed from the Nazi extermination camps. Incidentally the Italian death camp mentioned on this thread was a German installment in the German puppet state of Northern Italy. Fascism and Nazism are not interchangeable. I'll stick to Nazi puns.
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Post by Boothen on Apr 1, 2013 16:55:18 GMT
His views are massively misinterepreted imo. Hes actively supported anti-racism campaigns on numerous occasions and stated that it wasnt necessarily the actions of Mussolini that he supported, but rather that he felt he was "deeply misunderstood". Hes another guy who left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastards can take a cheap shot at. I'd be delighted if we sacked Pulis and brought in someone of Di Canio's ability. I won't bother posting, as you read my mind. 100% agree with you.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 16:56:02 GMT
Okay, this is a pretty deep subject for the Oatcake and one that should probably be put to bed! Italy had death camps true. Looking for someone or something ro blame, Mussolini turned on the Italian Communist party after Caporetto and the political and social fallout from WW1, wrongly of course, Mussolini was at one time a staunch Communist supporter and writer for Communist papers i think. I'm not bringing this up as justification for Italian death camps or the persecution of Slavs but his motivation was generally political rather than racial I think. I could be wrong on this however, but I think Italian persecution of the Jews was as other have said more in keeping with the nazi agenda, I don't think Mussolini gave a shit about the Jews. You are right, death camps are not a necessary part of war, but we've all used them at some point in our murky history Some pesky cunts called "The British" invented concentration camps. The truth's disappointing isn't it?
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 17:01:19 GMT
No, the British invented the term "concentration camps" the first use was from the Polish, besides the "concentration camps used by Britain during the 2nd Boer war, and many countries since are far, far removed from the Nazi extermination camps. Incidentally the Italian death camp mentioned on this thread was a German installment in the German puppet state of Northern Italy. Fascism and Nazism are not interchangeable. I'll stick to Nazi puns. Yes they were different, the British didn't outwardly cull the Boers, what the German's did was on an industrial scale but I still think the point remains,n our history makes being holier than thou on such matters highly questionable
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 17:01:50 GMT
No, the British invented the term "concentration camps" the first use was from the Polish, besides the "concentration camps used by Britain during the 2nd Boer war, and many countries since are far, far removed from the Nazi extermination camps. Incidentally the Italian death camp mentioned on this thread was a German installment in the German puppet state of Northern Italy. Fascism and Nazism are not interchangeable. I'll stick to Nazi puns. Yes they were different, the British didn't outwardly cull the Boers, what the German's did was on an industrial scale but I still think the point remains,n our history makes being holier than thou on such matters highly questionable
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 17:02:26 GMT
Some pesky cunts called "The British" invented concentration camps. The truth's disappointing isn't it? I've got to be honest our imperial past doesn't bother me. We did a lot of evil things and we did a lot of good things. As long as You learn from those mistakes and don't make them again I don't know what more people in our time can do. What was done, was done and it was wrong but it happened and You can't change it. Anyway DiCanio is a right Focke*. I know it's German but it's a tedious pun to fascism!
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Post by dime on Apr 1, 2013 17:05:02 GMT
Yes they were different, the British didn't outwardly cull the Boers, what the German's did was on an industrial scale but I still think the point remains,n our history makes being holier than thou on such matters highly questionable Don't get me wrong I'm not saying earlier uses of them were in anyway harmless, just that internment and people dying due to illness or malnutrition in many cases the result of poor management, is in no way comparable to the mass murders of the extermination camps under the Nazis.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 17:08:47 GMT
Yes they were different, the British didn't outwardly cull the Boers, what the German's did was on an industrial scale but I still think the point remains,n our history makes being holier than thou on such matters highly questionable Don't get me wrong I'm not saying earlier uses of them were in anyway harmless, just that internment and people dying due to illness or poor malnutrition in many cases the result of poor management, is in no way comparable to the mass murders of the extermination camps under the Nazis. I know nowt about ours it has to be said. WW2 however is a bit of an obsession of mine, I find it fascinating.
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 1, 2013 17:10:10 GMT
This is how I'd react.
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Post by Gods on Apr 1, 2013 17:12:38 GMT
I'd probably draw the line at a Communist/Marxist.
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 1, 2013 17:17:24 GMT
I suppose the Stokies on here who are having a go at Di Canio would be happy if we had a communist in charge who admired Stalin? That is a way of dealing with the subject that even Di Canio and Mussolini would have described as: Ignoratio Elenchi !
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 17:19:25 GMT
I'd probably draw the line at a Communist/Marxist. Are You American? Communists scare Americans something silly, I find it most amusing.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 17:30:44 GMT
I suppose the Stokies on here who are having a go at Di Canio would be happy if we had a communist in charge who admired Stalin? That is a way of dealing with the subject that even Di Canio and Mussolini would have described as: Ignoratio Elenchi ! Why? because it's hypothetical? As hypothetical as asking how people would react if Paulo Di Canio had become Stoke manager?!
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 1, 2013 17:42:56 GMT
(slaphead)That is a way of dealing with the subject that even Di Canio and Mussolini would have described as: Ignoratio Elenchi ! Why? because it's hypothetical? As hypothetical as asking how people would react if Paulo Di Canio had become Stoke manager?! No, by asking if anybody who share his opinions( about politics ) could be a manager in Stoke, and how you would react to that. That`s a simple question. No reason to make it more confusing with that "Argumentum ad hominem tu quoque"-stuff.
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Post by basingstokie on Apr 1, 2013 17:55:19 GMT
It`s not about what I like or not. It`s about if a footballclub want to employ a manager/boss who speak positive about an ideology which clearly are misanthropic. Whatever you may think, but he is actually in a posistion where he can affect a lot of people with his wiews. So let me ask again: Would you have tolerated that Stoke appointed a manager who told several times that he is a facist and admire Benito Mussolini? Yes. Politics and sport don't mix. IMO PdC should keep his political views private. It is unfortunate that he hasn't, but they aren't illegal and don't affect his management skill. So, no, I wouldn't have any issue with him being at Stoke.
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benno
Lads'n'Dads
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Post by benno on Apr 1, 2013 17:56:47 GMT
Maybe a stupid question but what are his views? (Di Canios)
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2013 17:58:23 GMT
Maybe a stupid question but what are his views? (Di Canios) They are not hard to find if you can use Google.
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Post by shipshape on Apr 1, 2013 18:00:29 GMT
All this admiring Mussolini could easily be down to misquotes as per usual for our media. For example if someone asked me what I thought of Margaret Thatcher I might say:
"I admire Margaret Thatcher for the way she liberated the Falklands and didn't allow British Citizens to succumb to an oppresive regime. However I think she is one of the most evil women in the past thirty years for the way she oppressed working class people of her own country and oversaw one of the most disgraceful cover-ups in this country's recent history allowing a whole section of society to be criminalised and treated like scum for the next quarter of a century"
In the press this could quite easily be reported as "I admire Margaret Thatcher".
I wouldn't want Di Cannio at Stoke because I don't think the way he treats players would fit in with Premier League primadonnas (unfortunately), not based on selective quotes from his past. One thing I would be sure of is he'd give his all for the club and be totally and utterly committed to the cause.
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Post by generationex on Apr 1, 2013 18:07:31 GMT
Whether Di Canios views are illegal depends which country you're in. In Germany they are.
But as Hitler said to Mussolini - "Two wrongs don't make a Reich" (coat on).
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 18:07:36 GMT
Why? because it's hypothetical? As hypothetical as asking how people would react if Paulo Di Canio had become Stoke manager?! No, by asking if anybody who share his opinions( about politics ) could be a manager in Stoke, and how you would react to that. That`s a simple question. No reason to make it more confusing with that "Argumentum ad hominem tu quoque"-stuff. I think I understand what you mean, although I can't be certain
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Post by gibby1409 on Apr 1, 2013 18:08:23 GMT
I realise the whole thread is based around is he or isn't he a facist. But in reality, would we really want a manager who's done the square root of fook all in his managerial career?
For Shearer in 2009, then read De Canio in 2013, and we all know how that ended!
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 18:12:30 GMT
Whether Di Canios views are illegal depends which country you're in. In Germany they are. But as Hitler said to Mussolini - "Two wrongs don't make a Reich" (coat on). What part of Di Canio's 'views' are illegal in Germany?!
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Post by dime on Apr 1, 2013 18:16:22 GMT
Whether Di Canios views are illegal depends which country you're in. In Germany they are. But as Hitler said to Mussolini - "Two wrongs don't make a Reich" (coat on). What part of Di Canio's 'views' are illegal in Germany?! None of them! Yet again it's a case of people not differentiating between Fascism and Nazism, there is plenty about fascism to argue against without the need to brand it something which it is not.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 18:17:05 GMT
What part of Di Canio's 'views' are illegal in Germany?! None of them! Yet again it's a case of people not differentiating between Fascism and Nazism, there is plenty about fascism to argue against without the need to brand it something which it is not. Makes for a good pun though.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 18:42:23 GMT
What part of Di Canio's 'views' are illegal in Germany?! None of them! Yet again it's a case of people not differentiating between Fascism and Nazism, there is plenty about fascism to argue against without the need to brand it something which it is not. I know mate, I was being a bit of a dick in asking in fairness. Seeing whether an answer could actually be given but in my haste, I missed the joke at the end of the post! There are no right or wrong opinions on the issue raised in the original post, just that people should be mindful when discussing Di Canio and Italian fascism not to confuse the issue with unnecessary reference to issues relating to Nazism. People don't distinguish between the two and I can understand that to an extent given that generally people know a lot more about the Third Reich but it makes a lot of what's said unfounded. NO, NO, NO, STOP GETTING FASCISM WRONG!
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Post by Gods on Apr 1, 2013 18:45:26 GMT
I'd probably draw the line at a Communist/Marxist. Are You American? Communists scare Americans something silly, I find it most amusing. No, but Joseph Stalin called himself a marxist and is conservatively reckoned to have been responsible for the death of tens of millions of people. And Mao Tse Tung the one time Chairman of the Communist Party in China with his Little Red Book must have heaped more misery on a nation than living should allow. I just reckon that these 2 jokers alone must have caused more misery than all the fascists put together.
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Post by dime on Apr 1, 2013 18:48:06 GMT
None of them! Yet again it's a case of people not differentiating between Fascism and Nazism, there is plenty about fascism to argue against without the need to brand it something which it is not. I know mate, I was being a bit of a dick in asking in fairness. Seeing whether an answer could actually be given but in my haste, I missed the joke at the end of the post! There are no right or wrong opinions on the issue raised in the original post, just that people should be mindful when discussing Di Canio and Italian fascism not to confuse the issue with unnecessary reference to issues relating to Nazism. People don't distinguish between the two and I can understand that to an extent given that generally people know a lot more about the Third Reich but it makes a lot of what's said unfounded. NO, NO, NO, STOP GETTING FASCISM WRONG! This, as previously stated, plenty wrong with Italian fascism for people to get their teeth into, without the assumption that he's a Nazi.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 18:50:10 GMT
I know mate, I was being a bit of a dick in asking in fairness. Seeing whether an answer could actually be given but in my haste, I missed the joke at the end of the post! There are no right or wrong opinions on the issue raised in the original post, just that people should be mindful when discussing Di Canio and Italian fascism not to confuse the issue with unnecessary reference to issues relating to Nazism. People don't distinguish between the two and I can understand that to an extent given that generally people know a lot more about the Third Reich but it makes a lot of what's said unfounded. NO, NO, NO, STOP GETTING FASCISM WRONG! This, as previously stated, plenty wrong with Italian fascism for people to get their teeth into, without the assumption that he's a Nazi. Well said
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