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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 1, 2013 15:24:50 GMT
Probably the direct quote from the man himself...“I am a fascist, not a racist.” We all want Pulis out but I get the impression you'd take Paul Sturrock, Phil Brown, Ian Dowie or any fucker right now. Have some standards man. Hes come out on numerous occasions and questioned the content of those original claims. He quite clearly isnt a fascist. If you want play these ridiculous game and suggest hes some kind of evil fascist lunatic i'll play them too. Would a fascist go out and order 200 working class citizens pizza after they helped to clear snow off the pitch? He has a pair of fasces tatooed on his back for fucks sake man! The original and world renowned symbol of Facism. He's confimed that he's a facist himself countless times! What more evidence do you need!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 15:25:09 GMT
I wouldn't be arsed if they won games.
If he lost a few he'd be vile fascist twat.
Proper fickle me.
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Post by jbstokie on Apr 1, 2013 15:27:36 GMT
Got any figures for this statement? No, have you? It was widely documented that Swindon were in absolute financial turmoil and what Di Canio had achieved there was phenomenal under the financial circumstances. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18422221Swindon's playing budget this season is £4m, the difference in wages between league 1 and league 2 is very small. Blackpool's when they were in the Prem was around £11m I think.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 1, 2013 15:27:54 GMT
Anyone who apologises for or supports fascists has a sick mentality and I wouldn't want them anywhere near Stoke. The argument that people are entitled to their opinion is all very well but when it's complicit with supporting a regime that had Death Camps for Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Slavic people etc. it is totally unacceptable by any civilised standard. check this link for info. if you want confirmation that Mussolini was an evil despot euroheritage.net/mussolinideathcamp.shtmldiCanio's appointment would make me seriously concerned about who we had running the club and I would distance myself from supporting it whilst any such regime was in control.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 1, 2013 15:28:18 GMT
Hes come out on numerous occasions and questioned the content of those original claims. He quite clearly isnt a fascist. If you want play these ridiculous game and suggest hes some kind of evil fascist lunatic i'll play them too. Would a fascist go out and order 200 working class citizens pizza after they helped to clear snow off the pitch? He has a pair of fasces tatooed on his back for fucks sake man! The original and world renowned symbol of Facism. He's confimed that he's a facist himself countless times! What more evidence do you need! Hes misunderstood brother. Great manager and comes across as a good guy. Swindon fans loved him and that includes his ethical behaviour.
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Post by slother on Apr 1, 2013 15:28:19 GMT
I would welcome him extremely extremely cautiously. I would regard him as unproven but think he has the motivational skills to kick a side like ours into shape. I also think he probably has more imagination and regard for technical and aesthetic skill than Pulis could muster in ten lifetimes.
As regards his politics, I'm a liberal - but I understand that part of liberalism is to tolerate and allow people to be all kinds of different to you. A football manager is not a political appointment. I also understand that you cannot look at one quote or one photo in isolation. I don't know what he believes, or why he describes himself as a fascist, but I know that he is not a racist - which suggests there's some nuance to his position to be understood.
As long as he kept his politics to himself and drove Stoke City to success, I could support him.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 1, 2013 15:28:24 GMT
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 1, 2013 15:30:20 GMT
He has a pair of fasces tatooed on his back for fucks sake man! The original and world renowned symbol of Facism. He's confimed that he's a facist himself countless times! What more evidence do you need! Hes misunderstood brother. Great manager and comes across as a good guy. Swindon fans loved him and that includes his ethical behaviour. So you admit now that he is a facist though? Albeit a nice, misunderstood one....
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Post by slother on Apr 1, 2013 15:31:39 GMT
Anyone who apologises for or supports fascists has a sick mentality and I wouldn't want them anywhere near Stoke. The argument that people are entitled to their opinion is all very well but when it's complicit with supporting a regime that had Death Camps for Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Slavic people etc. it is totally unacceptable by any civilised standard. check this link for info. if you want confirmation that Mussolini was an evil despot euroheritage.net/mussolinideathcamp.shtmldiCanio's appointment would make me seriously concerned about who we had running the club and I would distance myself from supporting it whilst any such regime was in control. Didn't he write in his autobiography that Mussolini had been well-intentioned but had made the mistake of betraying his ethics. I wouldn't want my politics to be reduced to a soundbite.
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 1, 2013 15:31:58 GMT
He has a pair of fasces tatooed on his back for fucks sake man! The original and world renowned symbol of Facism. He's confimed that he's a facist himself countless times! What more evidence do you need! Hes misunderstood brother. Great manager and comes across as a good guy. Swindon fans loved him and that includes his ethical behaviour. Plenty of people thought Mussolini was a top bloke too.
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Post by generationex on Apr 1, 2013 15:33:33 GMT
If you take the racism out of facism what have you got left really? What is facism if it doesn't involve a bit of Germany-for the-Germans/Italy-for-the-Italians stuff? Without the anti-Semitic, homophobic stuff it doesn't really have a point.
A bit like a Pedo that professes not to like kids.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 1, 2013 15:36:25 GMT
Anyone who apologises for or supports fascists has a sick mentality and I wouldn't want them anywhere near Stoke. The argument that people are entitled to their opinion is all very well but when it's complicit with supporting a regime that had Death Camps for Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Slavic people etc. it is totally unacceptable by any civilised standard. check this link for info. if you want confirmation that Mussolini was an evil despot euroheritage.net/mussolinideathcamp.shtmldiCanio's appointment would make me seriously concerned about who we had running the club and I would distance myself from supporting it whilst any such regime was in control. Didn't he write in his autobiography that Mussolini had been well-intentioned but had made the mistake of betraying his ethics. I wouldn't want my politics to be reduced to a soundbite. This is enough of a soundbite for me www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1506262/Im-a-fascist-not-a-racist-says-Paolo-di-Canio.htmlIf he didn't want to court controversy he shouldn't continue with defending the indefensible.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 1, 2013 15:37:40 GMT
Hes misunderstood brother. Great manager and comes across as a good guy. Swindon fans loved him and that includes his ethical behaviour. So you admit now that he is a facist though? Albeit a nice, misunderstood one.... His views are firmly right wing. There are elements of facism he agrees with. He is by no means a fascist in its truest form. His previous actions as regards pizza distribution to the masses highlights his ethically sound nature.
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Post by Gunslinger on Apr 1, 2013 15:48:49 GMT
I would never support a facist as manager of SCFC, nor if he expresses support of an other totalitarian political ideology.
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Post by stokeox11 on Apr 1, 2013 15:49:39 GMT
I suppose the Stokies on here who are having a go at Di Canio would be happy if we had a communist in charge who admired Stalin?
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 1, 2013 15:49:59 GMT
So you admit now that he is a facist though? Albeit a nice, misunderstood one.... His views are firmly right wing. There are elements of facism he agrees with. He is by no means a fascist in its truest form. His previous actions as regards pizza distribution to the masses highlights his ethically sound nature. So you're calling Di Canio stupid? He clearly and proudly defines himself as a Fascist but you don't think he even knows what he is? Distributing food to the masses covers a multitude of sins then....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 15:50:31 GMT
So you admit now that he is a facist though? Albeit a nice, misunderstood one.... His views are firmly right wing. There are elements of facism he agrees with. He is by no means a fascist in its truest form. His previous actions as regards pizza distribution to the masses highlights his ethically sound nature. "I'm a fascist not a racist". Paolo's own words.
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 1, 2013 15:51:41 GMT
I suppose the Stokies on here who are having a go at Di Canio would be happy if we had a communist in charge who admired Stalin? I would never support a facist as manager of SCFC, nor if he expresses support of an other totalitarian political ideology. What he said
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 1, 2013 15:52:24 GMT
I suppose the Stokies on here who are having a go at Di Canio would be happy if we had a communist in charge who admired Stalin? So who are you thinking of, then? PS Stalin was an evil despot too, so just to answer your hypothetical question, of course not!
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Post by GlennA on Apr 1, 2013 15:52:44 GMT
If you take the racism out of facism what have you got left really? The glorification of war and the degradation of women, if I remember my o-level history correctly. All lovely stuff.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 15:56:49 GMT
Okay, if we're dealing in hypotheticals how about thinking if like this, if Paulo Di Canio was an Englishman the chances of him being a supporter or admirer British fascism would be much slimmer and therefore much more abhorrent. I'm not making excuses for Paulo Di Canio's beliefs, I don't think it's necessary. I do believe however that the origins of Italian fascism and its ideology get twisted and blurred by a greater appreciation and understanding of naziism which is probably a bit unfair. So we treat Italians differently, like some senile old Grandad. 'Send the buggers back!' Oh Grandad, yer daft racist. Just because Italian facism has it's roots in Ancient History and the Roman Empire doesn't make it any more cuddly a form of Facism. I'm off to Chester to shoot a Welshman from the confines of the city walls with a longbow I never said anything about ancient history, as far as I'm aware, modern Italy has little to do with the Roman Empire anyway, I don't consider any fascism to be 'cuddly' and can't understand your point about the senile grandad mate. I'm sorry. I'm just saying some of the arguments being raised are not necessarily relevant to Italian fascism because people struggle to differentiate between naziism and fascist ideology per se. I'm not suggesting people are wrong to dislike Paulo Di Canio for his political beliefs, just that people should be careful in how they interpret what he has said and done. There is no such thing as 'cuddly fascism' and the fascist Italian empire committed many atrocities much like the British, German, French and Belgian empires did before them and Unfortunately human suffering is an endemic part of world war. (by saying this I am in NO WAY sympathising with nazism or advocating the attempted destruction of the Jewish race!)
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 1, 2013 15:57:29 GMT
If you take the racism out of facism what have you got left really? The glorification of war and the degradation of women, if I remember my o-level history correctly. All lovely stuff. If only those bastards had handed out Pizza, we could've overlooked all that other nonsense
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 1, 2013 16:04:49 GMT
So we treat Italians differently, like some senile old Grandad. 'Send the buggers back!' Oh Grandad, yer daft racist. Just because Italian facism has it's roots in Ancient History and the Roman Empire doesn't make it any more cuddly a form of Facism. I'm off to Chester to shoot a Welshman from the confines of the city walls with a longbow I never said anything about ancient history, as far as I'm aware, modern Italy has little to do with the Roman Empire anyway, I don't consider any fascism to be 'cuddly' and can't understand your point about the senile grandad mate. I'm sorry. I'm just saying some of the arguments being raised are not necessarily relevant to Italian fascism because people struggle to differentiate between naziism and fascist ideology per se. I'm not suggesting people are wrong to dislike Paulo Di Canio for his political beliefs, just that people should be careful in how they interpret what he has said and done. There is no such thing as 'cuddly fascism' and the fascist Italian empire committed many atrocities much like the British, German, French and Belgian empires did before them and Unfortunately human suffering is an endemic part of world war. (by saying this I am in NO WAY sympathising with nazism or advocating the attempted destruction of the Jewish race!) Whilst I would agree with your statement that "human suffering that is an endemic part of World War" I would also point out that Death Camps intended to facilitate the total destruction of certain groups of humanity based on racial and philosophical grounds are not. That is what differentiates Mussolini and other supporters of Hitler and his ideology.
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Post by stokeox11 on Apr 1, 2013 16:06:07 GMT
I would have been more than happy to have Di Canio at Stoke as long as under his leadership we produced good performances and won games.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 16:21:13 GMT
In fairness this is a mental thread, I like to keep my football separate from political affiliation! For me, if Paulo Di Canio admires Mussolini and finds elements of Italian fascism appealing then that's his prerogative and I quite like him for at least having an opinion. As a football man, I loved him as a player and enjoy watching his career as a manager, he's unpredictable, hot headed and liable to get himself in all manner of scrapes. From the shallowest perspective I can take, it's good entertainment. The contrast between he and Tony Pulis is striking, hypothetically speaking, if Di Canio had achieved what Pulis has with us instead, I reckon more of us would hail Paulo Di Canio. And that is because the guy's got more charisma in his right foot than Tony Pulis has in his entirety unfortunately. That said, I most certainly wouldn't want him at the helm at a time like this. And he probably wouldn't be top of my list for prospective new managers either.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 1, 2013 16:24:12 GMT
His views are firmly right wing. There are elements of facism he agrees with. He is by no means a fascist in its truest form. His previous actions as regards pizza distribution to the masses highlights his ethically sound nature. So you're calling Di Canio stupid? He clearly and proudly defines himself as a Fascist but you don't think he even knows what he is? Distributing food to the masses covers a multitude of sins then.... As far as i'm concerned it was a comment that even Di Canio himself has questioned the validity of and one that was almost certainly aimed at the public to cause a stir. When hasnt Di Canio relished the opportunity to wind up the public or act in the heat of the moment? Remember when he pushed over the ref? A classic example. He is due to make another anouncement in the near future which will dismiss the claims he made earlier in his career that suggest hes a fascist. If in the unlikely scenario whereby he truly believes himself to be a fascist then he doesnt understand fascism. The reality is he is a an extremely passionate guy with ethical values akin to anyone else. He also happens to be a fine football manager (and player). I dont think you should totally dismiss the cultural background behind his claims and career either Ramblers.
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Post by swampmongrel on Apr 1, 2013 16:25:10 GMT
His views are firmly right wing. There are elements of facism he agrees with. He is by no means a fascist in its truest form. His previous actions as regards pizza distribution to the masses highlights his ethically sound nature. So you're calling Di Canio stupid? He clearly and proudly defines himself as a Fascist but you don't think he even knows what he is? Distributing food to the masses covers a multitude of sins then.... GOAAAAAARN JON!
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Post by nik80 on Apr 1, 2013 16:40:21 GMT
I never said anything about ancient history, as far as I'm aware, modern Italy has little to do with the Roman Empire anyway, I don't consider any fascism to be 'cuddly' and can't understand your point about the senile grandad mate. I'm sorry. I'm just saying some of the arguments being raised are not necessarily relevant to Italian fascism because people struggle to differentiate between naziism and fascist ideology per se. I'm not suggesting people are wrong to dislike Paulo Di Canio for his political beliefs, just that people should be careful in how they interpret what he has said and done. There is no such thing as 'cuddly fascism' and the fascist Italian empire committed many atrocities much like the British, German, French and Belgian empires did before them and Unfortunately human suffering is an endemic part of world war. (by saying this I am in NO WAY sympathising with nazism or advocating the attempted destruction of the Jewish race!) Whilst I would agree with your statement that "human suffering that is an endemic part of World War" I would also point out that Death Camps intended to facilitate the total destruction of certain groups of humanity based on racial and philosophical grounds are not. That is what differentiates Mussolini and other supporters of Hitler and his ideology. Okay, this is a pretty deep subject for the Oatcake and one that should probably be put to bed! Italy had death camps true. Looking for someone or something ro blame, Mussolini turned on the Italian Communist party after Caporetto and the political and social fallout from WW1, wrongly of course, Mussolini was at one time a staunch Communist supporter and writer for Communist papers i think. I'm not bringing this up as justification for Italian death camps or the persecution of Slavs but his motivation was generally political rather than racial I think. I could be wrong on this however, but I think Italian persecution of the Jews was as other have said more in keeping with the nazi agenda, I don't think Mussolini gave a shit about the Jews. You are right, death camps are not a necessary part of war, but we've all used them at some point in our murky history
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2013 16:46:51 GMT
Whilst I would agree with your statement that "human suffering that is an endemic part of World War" I would also point out that Death Camps intended to facilitate the total destruction of certain groups of humanity based on racial and philosophical grounds are not. That is what differentiates Mussolini and other supporters of Hitler and his ideology. Okay, this is a pretty deep subject for the Oatcake and one that should probably be put to bed! Italy had death camps true. Looking for someone or something ro blame, Mussolini turned on the Italian Communist party after Caporetto and the political and social fallout from WW1, wrongly of course, Mussolini was at one time a staunch Communist supporter and writer for Communist papers i think. I'm not bringing this up as justification for Italian death camps or the persecution of Slavs but his motivation was generally political rather than racial I think. I could be wrong on this however, but I think Italian persecution of the Jews was as other have said more in keeping with the nazi agenda, I don't think Mussolini gave a shit about the Jews. You are right, death camps are not a necessary part of war, but we've all used them at some point in our murky history Some pesky cunts called "The British" invented concentration camps.
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Post by redwhite on Apr 1, 2013 16:49:03 GMT
How would you react if Stoke appointed a manager with the same political wiews as Di Canio has expressed for several years? Personally I couldn`t have stand to have a self-declared facist as a manager at the club. Even though you shouldn`t mix up political wiews with football or sport, it`s a limit for everything... You may not like his views but he is entitled to have them. How surprising that someone who admitted racial abuse on this board is the first to protect the views of a fascist.
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