mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 5, 2013 15:37:07 GMT
MT...Tony Pulis is a staunch catholic and you couldn't wish to associate with a more abhorrent, corrupt religion. Does that mean Tony Pulis should never have been allowed near the club? Afterall, he openly supports and admits to being a staunch catholic, a religion which makes abusing young children seem normal? You asked a question...How would you react if.... I wouldn't react at all. If Di Canio rocked up as our manager, I really wouldn't give a shit what he believed it to be honest, particularly in this respect as we don't know an awful lot about what he believes in aside from the fact that he sympathised in someway with Mussolini and SOME of his beliefs. TP sympathises with the beliefs of the Catholic Church but I doubt he approves of child abuse! Have been through this a couple of times now... Believe it or not, but it`s actually a difference between an ideology that is misantrophic in it`s basics and a religion/ideology that has been misconducted and misunderstanded by a lot of people( and not just ordinary people, but unfourtenately those with authority, too ). If you ever have the pleasure to meet some people from for example Italy, Spain or Chile that has suffer during the time that fascist regimes was running those countries, you could maybe try to ask them if it is anything good about that ideology at all? And how they feel about a footballclub employing a fascist as a manager... What you try to do here is an typical example of "argumentum ad hominem tu quoque".
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Post by foster on Apr 5, 2013 15:47:14 GMT
Can Admin move this thread to the GDB?
Far too much 'intellectual' debate with no end product going on here. As none of you are going to back down and accept defeat, it would save a lot of time and be more interesting if you just called each others cunts and shook hands.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 5, 2013 16:04:07 GMT
My point is Count, that there is a more relevant definition here, imo i.e. "the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste:those who could afford to buy showed little taste or discrimination." Having the ability to discriminate between good and bad is an essential part of living effectively, is it not? So therefore discrimination can represent a positive quality too. As such my opinion about DiCanio is based on well known information about him that is in the public domain......information that indicates him to be at best confused and at worst ethically compromised. But hey if you want to defend a fascist Mussolini sympathiser you go right ahead. I'll refer you to this reply I gave to Huddy yesterday "I don't support him. I support his right to a (legal) political opinion without fear of reprisal. The alternative is to say that he has no right to a political opinion that I don't agree with, and THAT sounds like Fascism." All the points you raise have been dealt with ad-infinitum if you read through the thread (fookin tough going in places though!) You're splitting hairs.............of course he has a right to an opinion and I have a right to an opinion about that opinion. My response is hardly akin to Fascism it is my opinion and this is a discussion board. Who said anything about reprisals??? Also I am not looking for a high paid job representing the club and if I was I wouldn't be looking to constantly court controversy by stating my support for well known Nazi collaborators such a Mussolini.
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 5, 2013 16:07:57 GMT
Can Admin move this thread to the GDB? Far too much 'intellectual' debate with no end product going on here. As none of you are going to back down and accept defeat, it would save a lot of time and be more interesting if you just called each others cunts and shook hands. Fair point. I`ll back off...
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 5, 2013 16:59:30 GMT
I'll refer you to this reply I gave to Huddy yesterday "I don't support him. I support his right to a (legal) political opinion without fear of reprisal. The alternative is to say that he has no right to a political opinion that I don't agree with, and THAT sounds like Fascism." All the points you raise have been dealt with ad-infinitum if you read through the thread (fookin tough going in places though!) You're splitting hairs.............of course he has a right to an opinion and I have a right to an opinion about that opinion. My response is hardly akin to Fascism it is my opinion and this is a discussion board. Who said anything about reprisals??? Also I am not looking for a high paid job representing the club and if I was I wouldn't be looking to constantly court controversy by stating my support for well known Nazi collaborators such a Mussolini. Denying DiCanio the opportunity to work IS a reprisal. Again - If you bother to read through the entire thread all the points you raise have been covered in Marianna Trench style depth. The Post above is right - all has been said - lets let it lie......
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 5, 2013 18:21:31 GMT
mt...The point that you make is that people interpret the ideologies for their own ends and manipulate it to suit.
That is exactly what Hitler did and it is definitely what Stalin did with the Marxist ideology. I don't know enough about Mussolini having only touched on him during my studies but my impression is that he was led a merry dance by Hitler and lost his way somewhat as a result.
I'm sure that there are parts of a fascist ideology that has its merits on various levels, whatever those levels may be. How it is used and twisted to suit the person using the ideology as part of their power wielding exercise, be that Catholicism and priests abusing young kids or fascists determined to wipe out a race of people is really a matter for the individual.
Some will like Di Canio, some won't. For me, going back to the opening post, I wouldn't give a shit if he turned up at Stoke. I would judge him based on his ability as a football manager.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 5, 2013 18:53:38 GMT
You do understand that under a fascist regime you would have NO freedom don't you? Why on earth would you support a self confessed fascist? I don't support him. I support his right to a (legal) political opinion without fear of reprisal. The alternative is to say that he has no right to a political opinion that I don't agree with, and THAT sounds like Fascism. Supporting race hate is not legal. I'm not sure why you're defending a self confessed fascist.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 5, 2013 19:01:36 GMT
Recalling my history and the argument of some bloke whose name escapes me, there are five key components to fascism: - Leadership of Elites
- Socialism
- Eternal struggle/survival of the fittest
- Absolute power of the state
- Strict social order
The extent to which those are positive qualities for a manager is debatable. One might make an argument for our own manager having fascist tendencies!
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Post by philm87 on Apr 5, 2013 19:07:52 GMT
mt...The point that you make is that people interpret the ideologies for their own ends and manipulate it to suit. That is exactly what Hitler did and it is definitely what Stalin did with the Marxist ideology. I don't know enough about Mussolini having only touched on him during my studies but my impression is that he was led a merry dance by Hitler and lost his way somewhat as a result. I'm sure that there are parts of a fascist ideology that has its merits on various levels, whatever those levels may be. How it is used and twisted to suit the person using the ideology as part of their power wielding exercise, be that Catholicism and priests abusing young kids or fascists determined to wipe out a race of people is really a matter for the individual. Some will like Di Canio, some won't. For me, going back to the opening post, I wouldn't give a shit if he turned up at Stoke. I would judge him based on his ability as a football manager. I'm pretty sure Mussolini didn't 'lose his way' as a result of Hitler. He was already a proper cunt before then.
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Post by onionman on Apr 5, 2013 19:08:19 GMT
At least John Terry is sticking up for Di Canio, calling him a "nice guy" ahead of their match.
Must be nice to have that kind of support, a bit like going into an interview for a job at a children's home armed with a glowing reference from Jimmy Savile.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 5, 2013 19:18:31 GMT
You're splitting hairs.............of course he has a right to an opinion and I have a right to an opinion about that opinion. My response is hardly akin to Fascism it is my opinion and this is a discussion board. Who said anything about reprisals??? Also I am not looking for a high paid job representing the club and if I was I wouldn't be looking to constantly court controversy by stating my support for well known Nazi collaborators such a Mussolini. Denying DiCanio the opportunity to work IS a reprisal. Again - If you bother to read through the entire thread all the points you raise have been covered in Marianna Trench style depth. The Post above is right - all has been said - lets let it lie...... DiCanio has got a job hasn't he,must be on tens of thousands a week surely?....... doesn't sound that bad
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