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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 31, 2013 10:27:49 GMT
pulis is receiving criticism because of the absolute contempt with which he speaks about the support on the radio after games and his inability to change tactics/personnel. the problem culture amongst the stoke support is we don't like to complain, all of us are grateful for getting to wembley twice and being able to see us take on the likes of valencia. how the manager is acting now is threatening to risk all of the chances of that happening again in the future and our immediate plight, potentially dropping out of the premier league. the results and performances this season have been some of the worst in the 5 years since we have come up, and yes some it is down to luck, bad decisions and the like, but take yesterday, conceding a goal so easily and poor finishing arguably cost us a point if not 3. the point is we look utterly toothless with crouch in attack and without proper wingers on the pitch, but have done so for 12 games and NOTHING HAS CHANGED. other managers have paid with their job for such an inability to change, yet pulis remains in charge. Im not saying he should be sacked its too late for that, but if he does not take us down this year then bar an amazing turnaround in tactics, we are prime candidates next year with him in charge. compare it to a business, they have to diversify and consistently vary their approach in order to meet the changing needs of consumers, the style of football also changes over time, in this country we are firmly moving towards a passing game and you need to adapt to not get left behind. as someone else put on a thread last night, for the likes of allardyce and pulis, the old guard long ball merchants, their days are numbered. Ash, I think you may be confusing criticism with abuse. You won't find many Stokies (including rimmers like me!) who are not critical of TP at the moment and many will want him out. Let's be honest, he deserves it for the drop in the standard of play and for the sometimes blinkered response to his critics. What he doesn't deserve, in my opinion and in the opinion of Homzy and many others on here, is the mindless abuse and vitriol aimed at him by some. To be honest very few managers deserve that. A bloke who: # got us into the Premier League after so many others had failed and # got us into our first ever FA Cup final after the most ruthless semi final demolotion of the opposing team since WW2 and # who made a decent (admittedly not perfect) fist of our first European campaign for nearly 40 years, deserves some respect not the total lack of it shown by some fans. It is perfectly possible to want a change of manager without being toxic towards Pulis and towards any fan who think that the abuse is counterproductive and way over the top.
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Post by RAF on Mar 31, 2013 10:36:40 GMT
Whilst I don't think it's right to be calling the manager names such as despicable and cunt, the critcism levelled at him at the moment apart from the hardcore abuse ( which by the way is down to only a handful of posters) is spot on. He has been lauded as our best ever manager by some on here, and now we are in trouble he deserves every bit of the opposite. He doesn't help himself the way he treats the fans like idiots, being condescending and generally making excuses for everything and never putting his hands up. He was complaining the other day that it's not the 23 million quids worth of strike force to blame it's the service they aren't getting, and yesterday it was because we aren't finishing well enough. Well Tone, the simple fact is that it's all down to you, you've had unprecedented backing, all the players you have bought apart from Shots and Wilko and you get paid handsomely to manage this team, which at the moment you are not doing well enough and at any other team you would have had the sack for this run. There is no use sacking Pulis now, it's gone too far, we just have to cross our fingers and hope that he can get us over the finish line, then it's up to PC what happens next.
H
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 10:37:21 GMT
Well said homzy..
Never TP's biggest fan, nor a descenter..I certainly acknowledge what he's done for the club, my team and my supporting enjoyment , even if it's never been with the style I'd prefer.
Campaigners use whatever medium shouts their message the loudest..the internet be it web sites , facebook , twitter or messageboards allows them that, the majority via the anonymity provided by a username.
Have to say IMO some of the personal abuse on here has more than crossed the line ..but then this board's always had it's fair share of posters who'll use foul language or/and abuse at the drop of a hat..so perhaps we shouldnt be so surprised when people use it in the context of something as passionate as the club they support.
And of course just as some take their support seriously and others less so..so to some a messageboard is a mere play thing.
Rather than get their message over however, because it's been repeated so often it's actually become as boring and as unpallatable as the team and managers performances they protest against.
Though which is better..posting on here and venting the spleen , where at worst it might dent morale a little, but no one gets really hurt or as happened at Goodison yesterday a few cries of Pulis out( by some long standing Stokies I'd add) silenced initially by pro Pulis shouts ( with a few glares , threats and a bit of language chucked in..a crowd is a passionate place after all ) before larger vocal support for the team by larger numbers drowned out both sides.
Worryingly given the tensions ,protests at games run the risk of ending badly for someone ( either side, we're all Stoke)..and given the league position they're likely to run higher before the season ends , with the possiblity fans may come to blows with the obvious consequnces fighting at a game can bring.
Pull together for the club and lets just get the season over with.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 31, 2013 10:47:07 GMT
Tony Pulis driving wedges between supporters... Who would of thunk it??!?!?
I think some mard arse fans need to man up and realise what a shit state we are in on the pitch instead of worrying about a bit of name calling to the manager.
He's a clueless tool - if that's abuse then so be it. He needs to fuck off.
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Post by jonnynico on Mar 31, 2013 10:49:24 GMT
It wouldn't be as bad if he didn't spout the shit he did after every game, but I suppose some believe it. Opinions hey.
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Post by skip on Mar 31, 2013 11:02:46 GMT
8 wins in 42? 20% success rate. How many other managers would have got the sack over those statistics. If it wasn't for one point for a draw glossing over his win to lose points ratio he would have lost job months ago.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 11:28:00 GMT
In response to some of the points:
1) The stat about us having eight wins from 42 games is misleading. The second half of last season was crap too (but overall it was still a memorable season due to Europe) but, even though performances were not great, it's difficult to deny we did not have a good first half to this season. We were eighth.
2) I realise that there are only a small number of Stoke fans behaving the way I've described. But it's certainly gone beyond levels you can easily ignore. It's in every post on here, and every even remotely positive tweet I send these days gets met with a torrent of abuse.
And yesterday at Everton there was a kick-off in the stands after someone started shouting Pulis out. The positive thing, however, was that he got angrily shot down by a load of other Stokies, and a loud Tony Pulis' Barmy Army chant followed. However, there were also ridiculous chants of 'attack, attack' (ridiculous because they came in the second half, when we did plenty of attacking). Another person near me just abused Shotton instead. This sort of stuff has always gone on, but it's creeping in more and more. It's not helpful to our club, and that is what I meant by everyone should put their energy into supporting the team.
3) I don't disagree with any of the criticism levelled at Pulis on this thread, or much of it elsewhere. However, some people talk about him as if he's relegated three times in a row. Perspective is key.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 11:36:44 GMT
And yesterday at Everton there was a kick-off in the stands after someone started shouting Pulis out. The positive thing, however, was that he got angrily shot down by a load of other Stokies, and a loud Tony Pulis' Barmy Army chant followed. I dont see how anything positive could be associated with there being a kick-off in the stands. A couple of other folk have mentioned verbal abuse and a couple of threats aimed their way too. Is that not even worse when its personal face to face in the crowd abuse and threats than a few people's unacceptable abuse on a message board?? Merely drowning out with a TP Barmy Army chant would have sufficed wouldn't it?
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 11:49:00 GMT
And yesterday at Everton there was a kick-off in the stands after someone started shouting Pulis out. The positive thing, however, was that he got angrily shot down by a load of other Stokies, and a loud Tony Pulis' Barmy Army chant followed. I dont see how anything positive could be associated with there being a kick-off in the stands. A couple of other folk have mentioned verbal abuse and a couple of threats aimed their way too. Is that not even worse when its personal face to face in the crowd abuse and threats than a few people's unacceptable abuse on a message board?? Merely drowning out with a TP Barmy Army chant would have sufficed wouldn't it? It was positive because the majority of people around him realised him shouting 'Pulis out' was not helping. The majority still want to support the team.
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Post by phil51 on Mar 31, 2013 11:56:51 GMT
Well said Homzy.
Clearly, some people have forgotten the meaning of words like gratitude, respect and perspective.
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 31, 2013 12:03:04 GMT
I dont see how anything positive could be associated with there being a kick-off in the stands. A couple of other folk have mentioned verbal abuse and a couple of threats aimed their way too. Is that not even worse when its personal face to face in the crowd abuse and threats than a few people's unacceptable abuse on a message board?? Merely drowning out with a TP Barmy Army chant would have sufficed wouldn't it? It was positive because the majority of people around him realised him shouting 'Pulis out' was not helping. The majority still want to support the team. Supporting the team and supporting Pulis are two very different things. The anger that most fans feel is solely towards the manager who they see as handicapping the team and not making the most of the resources available to him. Those singing Pulis's name could be doing more harm than good if this causes the hierarchy to think that he still enjoys the support of the rank and file. BM
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 12:06:25 GMT
I dont see how anything positive could be associated with there being a kick-off in the stands. A couple of other folk have mentioned verbal abuse and a couple of threats aimed their way too. Is that not even worse when its personal face to face in the crowd abuse and threats than a few people's unacceptable abuse on a message board?? Merely drowning out with a TP Barmy Army chant would have sufficed wouldn't it? It was positive because the majority of people around him realised him shouting 'Pulis out' was not helping. The majority still want to support the team. In that case the positive was the pro pulis chants. Abusing other fans is not at all positive and goes against the exact type of behaviour as you were [edit - CORRECTLY] lambasting in your original post. Shouting 'Pulis Out' does not suddenly constitute not supporting the team, just questioning when and where is the best place/medium to vent that frustration.
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Post by RAF on Mar 31, 2013 12:40:17 GMT
Well said Homzy. Clearly, some people have forgotten the meaning of words like gratitude, respect and perspective. Respect is a two way street , perhaps if the manager showed a bit for the fans instead of treating them like imbeciles then he might receive a bit back. H
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 12:50:00 GMT
I just don't respect the bloke or what he's done, never have done, never will do. And in the long run I think he'll bring more harm than good. He's an anchor around our neck and needs to go. I thank him for it and wish him well but I just don't like him and he brings me more dread in my life than anything else! True story.
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parker
Youth Player
Posts: 274
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Post by parker on Mar 31, 2013 12:51:16 GMT
I don' t agree with any personal abuse but he needs all the stick he gets about the the football . But to say half a bad season ? Are you on drugs or do you work for the club ?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 12:56:31 GMT
In response to some of the points: 1) The stat about us having eight wins from 42 games is misleading. The second half of last season was crap too (but overall it was still a memorable season due to Europe) but, even though performances were not great, it's difficult to deny we did not have a good first half to this season. We were eighth.
2) I realise that there are only a small number of Stoke fans behaving the way I've described. But it's certainly gone beyond levels you can easily ignore. It's in every post on here, and every even remotely positive tweet I send these days gets met with a torrent of abuse. And yesterday at Everton there was a kick-off in the stands after someone started shouting Pulis out. The positive thing, however, was that he got angrily shot down by a load of other Stokies, and a loud Tony Pulis' Barmy Army chant followed. However, there were also ridiculous chants of 'attack, attack' (ridiculous because they came in the second half, when we did plenty of attacking). Another person near me just abused Shotton instead. This sort of stuff has always gone on, but it's creeping in more and more. It's not helpful to our club, and that is what I meant by everyone should put their energy into supporting the team. 3) I don't disagree with any of the criticism levelled at Pulis on this thread, or much of it elsewhere. However, some people talk about him as if he's relegated three times in a row. Perspective is key. We were eighth FFS!
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 31, 2013 12:59:22 GMT
This isn't a 'remember where you have come from' thread (although I don't think we should forget how bad things have been compared to this), but a 'don't be so ungrateful' one. Like many, I have become increasingly frustrated with Pulis' attitude and stubbornness this season, and I certainly feel he is the person to blame for our downfall this year. I wouldn't be at all opposed to a change of manager in the summer. However, I will never, ever, ever turn on Pulis the way some Stoke 'supporters'* have turned on him recently. Some of the hateful abuse the bloke is getting at the moment is an absolute disgrace. He has given many of us our best days as a Stoke fan, yet some people are calling him all the names under the sun because we've had a bad half season. We've had seven straight great seasons under Pulis, and now he's a hate figure. It's shameful. We're Stoke City, not Manchester United, and we can't expect things to be plain sailing for us forever. We should be putting all our energy into supporting the team and, even if we believe it's time for Pulis to go in the summer, we should support him too while he's our manager as doing anything else is to the detriment of the team. Who needs enemies when you've got friends like Stoke fans? *Definition of support: 'To aid the cause, policy, or interests of / To argue in favour of; advocate' That's a great post. Personally I now think it's time for a change. I think Pulis has failed to deal with issues and areas we can all see. It's sad and I would rather he had been able to prove us wrong again but I don't think he will. If we survive this season, which I think we should do. Then either Tone does the decent thing (not sure he's a quitter though) or Coates has to make a very tough call.. Either way Pulis deserves a damn sight more respect than some of the infantile, ignorant and abusive crap he gets on here.
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Post by Etain Tur-Mukan on Mar 31, 2013 12:59:59 GMT
This isn't a 'remember where you have come from' thread (although I don't think we should forget how bad things have been compared to this), but a 'don't be so ungrateful' one. Like many, I have become increasingly frustrated with Pulis' attitude and stubbornness this season, and I certainly feel he is the person to blame for our downfall this year. I wouldn't be at all opposed to a change of manager in the summer. However, I will never, ever, ever turn on Pulis the way some Stoke 'supporters'* have turned on him recently. Some of the hateful abuse the bloke is getting at the moment is an absolute disgrace. He has given many of us our best days as a Stoke fan, yet some people are calling him all the names under the sun because we've had a bad half season. We've had seven straight great seasons under Pulis, and now he's a hate figure. It's shameful. We're Stoke City, not Manchester United, and we can't expect things to be plain sailing for us forever. We should be putting all our energy into supporting the team and, even if we believe it's time for Pulis to go in the summer, we should support him too while he's our manager as doing anything else is to the detriment of the team. Who needs enemies when you've got friends like Stoke fans? *Definition of support: 'To aid the cause, policy, or interests of / To argue in favour of; advocate' Excellent post.
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Post by owdestokie on Mar 31, 2013 13:12:15 GMT
Pugsley. Will you be throwing your CV in the ring if the manager leaves. If yes what % chance of being successful......zero?
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Post by jbstokie on Mar 31, 2013 13:18:22 GMT
Pugsley. Will you be throwing your CV in the ring if the manager leaves. If yes what % chance of being successful......zero? WTF.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 13:19:19 GMT
This isn't a 'remember where you have come from' thread (although I don't think we should forget how bad things have been compared to this), but a 'don't be so ungrateful' one. Like many, I have become increasingly frustrated with Pulis' attitude and stubbornness this season, and I certainly feel he is the person to blame for our downfall this year. I wouldn't be at all opposed to a change of manager in the summer. However, I will never, ever, ever turn on Pulis the way some Stoke 'supporters'* have turned on him recently. Some of the hateful abuse the bloke is getting at the moment is an absolute disgrace. He has given many of us our best days as a Stoke fan, yet some people are calling him all the names under the sun because we've had a bad half season. We've had seven straight great seasons under Pulis, and now he's a hate figure. It's shameful. We're Stoke City, not Manchester United, and we can't expect things to be plain sailing for us forever. We should be putting all our energy into supporting the team and, even if we believe it's time for Pulis to go in the summer, we should support him too while he's our manager as doing anything else is to the detriment of the team. Who needs enemies when you've got friends like Stoke fans? *Definition of support: 'To aid the cause, policy, or interests of / To argue in favour of; advocate' That's a great post. Personally I now think it's time for a change. I think Pulis has failed to deal with issues and areas we can all see. It's sad and I would rather he had been able to prove us wrong again but I don't think he will. If we survive this season, which I think we should do. Then either Tone does the decent thing (not sure he's a quitter though) or Coates has to make a very tough call.. Either way Pulis deserves a damn sight more respect than some of the infantile, ignorant and abusive crap he gets on here. I know I should respect him foxy and I want to but it's just not there. I wish it was, I really do but I have no emotion towards the bloke other than frustration and that fake hate bollocks that isn't really hate but You know what I mean. Walking home from the pub yesterday still pissed off at what I had witnessed I walked past a newsagents and the billboard had something on it like "TP-Owen still has big part to play". After spending since the 60th minute screaming to get "Owen fucking on" seeing that sign made me fucking angry. He'll kill me I'm sure of it. Don't rejoice too much!
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 31, 2013 14:22:47 GMT
All the posters crying about the "abuse" tone gets then go on to have their own boo boy player that it is ok to abuse, I smell a whiff of hypocrisy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 14:24:14 GMT
All the posters crying about the "abuse" tone gets then got on to have there own boo boy player that it is ok to abuse, I smell a whiff of hypocrisy. Especially when they're advocating fighting in the stands.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 31, 2013 14:52:09 GMT
All the posters crying about the "abuse" tone gets then got on to have there own boo boy player that it is ok to abuse, I smell a whiff of hypocrisy. Especially when they're advocating fighting in the stands. Not really but a few could do with a slap.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 14:53:25 GMT
Especially when they're advocating fighting in the stands. Not really but a few could do with a slap. Ah more advocating fighting in the stands, nice one!
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 31, 2013 15:00:49 GMT
Not really but a few could do with a slap. Ah more advocating fighting in the stands, nice one! FFS. It was obviously a joke hence the Some are getting far too precious on here.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 15:02:23 GMT
Ah more advocating fighting in the stands, nice one! FFS. It was obviously a joke hence the Some are getting far too precious on here. I'm as far from precious as You can imagine SS. You've got history for suggesting it and then relenting!
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 31, 2013 15:04:42 GMT
FFS. It was obviously a joke hence the Some are getting far too precious on here. I'm as far from precious as You can imagine SS. You've got history for suggesting it and then relenting! I honestly don't care a shit who slaps who. Not my problem. If it becomes a problem for me then I will care.
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Post by watcher on Mar 31, 2013 15:14:38 GMT
Its easy to be verbal on here but when you look at the abuse Mills,Ball etc.. had to endure then hes had an easy ride.He does deserve respect for what he has achieved but get to 40pts asap then step aside in the summer.
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 31, 2013 15:24:18 GMT
That's a great post. Personally I now think it's time for a change. I think Pulis has failed to deal with issues and areas we can all see. It's sad and I would rather he had been able to prove us wrong again but I don't think he will. If we survive this season, which I think we should do. Then either Tone does the decent thing (not sure he's a quitter though) or Coates has to make a very tough call.. Either way Pulis deserves a damn sight more respect than some of the infantile, ignorant and abusive crap he gets on here. I know I should respect him foxy and I want to but it's just not there. I wish it was, I really do but I have no emotion towards the bloke other than frustration and that fake hate bollocks that isn't really hate but You know what I mean. Walking home from the pub yesterday still pissed off at what I had witnessed I walked past a newsagents and the billboard had something on it like "TP-Owen still has big part to play". After spending since the 60th minute screaming to get "Owen fucking on" seeing that sign made me fucking angry. He'll kill me I'm sure of it. Don't rejoice too much! I get that mate and I have total respect for any Stokie going to watch us away regularly. More respect than I'll ever have for Pulis. What I don't get is the blind hatred and OTT criticisms of him. We should be better than that.
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