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Post by philm87 on Apr 3, 2013 12:47:00 GMT
Of course, virtually every thread is completely pointless in the great scheme of things, because like all arguments (religion, politics, football etc.), each side believes what it believes and isn't amenable to conversion by the other. The end result is always going to be a trading back and forth of abuse. It's just the over-reactions and hissy fits that make it the most fun. Almost every anti-TP post seems to be full of reasons why he should go and why the football's not worth watching any more. It strikes me that very few pro-TP posts contain anything other than 'I think he should stay, so there!'. There's never any rational response to the real doubts and worries of those who want him gone. Very few of the 'antis' actually abuse TP in any nasty way, and I agree that they shouldn't, but FFS if we can't simply state that the club's now going backwards and needs a change without being abused, it's a pretty poor show. There are plenty of different debates apart from that though. For instance, Homzy and Paul were both in agreement about whether or not Pulis should go at the end of the season. They were debating when are current problems started. Paul was saying they ultimately go back to the start of last season and the Crouch signing, while Homzy was saying it is only the last six months. Why does every debate have to be about whether or not the manager should go and whose 'side' are you on?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2013 12:48:55 GMT
Isn't that how arguing debating works though? Evidence, counter evidence and then argue debate about it? It's how I always thought it worked. Yes exactly. But those same standards should apply to everyone. Where is the evidence for whereami's 1 in 5 claim? Where is the evidence that Tony Pulis is a 'vile human being'? Where is the evidence that any Tom, Dick and Harry could match Pulis's achievements given similar financial backing? There seems to be a lot more conjecture than evidence. Like 'Pulis is losing these games on purpose to prove a point'. Or 'Pulis is making a coded message to the fans in this interview'. Or 'Pulis is a vile human being who treats us with contempt, but Paolo Di Canio would be really nice to us'. Or 'Anyone who doesn't agree that Pulis is a crap manager will go back to supporting Man United when we get relegated'. 'Or Palacios isn't in the team because Pulis can't handle good players'. Or 'our current crop of players are only worth about 50 million'. 'Those that support the manager are always more abusive'. I could go on give more examples, but you get the idea. My point is that very few people seem to challenge these assertions, even though there is no evidence offered in support of them. If you get into what counts as a logical argument the situation is even worse. Take for instance the argument that 'All of our past achievements are based on luck'. That is completely illogical. Then there's the abuse. I'm okay with banter, piss-taking and so on. It's the really vitriolic stuff. I thought that was the point Homzy was originally making. Abuse towards the manager and anyone who disagrees with a certain opinion. So for instance, we are having a free and fair debate and so on ... but Foster is stalking Stafford on facebook? Why? What is all that about? I understand he's very patronising, shoots himself in the foot in arguments and so on... but is this really necessary? It's where a healthy dose of taking everything with a pinch of salt comes into it! As for the third one of the three question that's a bit of an Oatcake myth, I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim it. That conjecture of losing the games on purpose is based on evidence from previous seasons, where he admitted to playing politics. Now I don't think he wants to lose on purpose but he has a history of playing politics and messing things around. It's not too much of a stretch to imply that now based on the past and with what appears to be going on in the background with Cartwright etc. It's always going to be a bit speculative because we simply have no clue what the fuck is going. But discussing is boring! And the Man Yoo thing is usually aimed at the ones who don't like Pulis-pre promotion fans as they are called. I've never seen anyone labelled a Man Yoo for not liking Pulis, You're just making stuff up now! I could challenge all of them here and now but most of them are bullshit that I can't be arsed to so it's just the few above that deserve extra attention for being particularly whiffy! I'm just taking You through my thought process now, thinking out loud as it were. He isn't stalking him is he? If You put a link to Facebook on Your Oatcake profile then people will look on it. It's why I try to keep shit off here like that. But if Stafford is comfortable with that then fair play. I agree about the abuse though, there's no need but it happens, in real life I think a lot more of the debates on here would end in a lot more abuse being dished out.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 3, 2013 12:53:31 GMT
Of course, virtually every thread is completely pointless in the great scheme of things, because like all arguments (religion, politics, football etc.), each side believes what it believes and isn't amenable to conversion by the other. The end result is always going to be a trading back and forth of abuse. It's just the over-reactions and hissy fits that make it the most fun. Almost every anti-TP post seems to be full of reasons why he should go and why the football's not worth watching any more. It strikes me that very few pro-TP posts contain anything other than 'I think he should stay, so there!'. There's never any rational response to the real doubts and worries of those who want him gone. Very few of the 'antis' actually abuse TP in any nasty way, and I agree that they shouldn't, but FFS if we can't simply state that the club's now going backwards and needs a change without being abused, it's a pretty poor show. There are plenty of different debates apart from that though. For instance, Homzy and Paul were both in agreement about whether or not Pulis should go at the end of the season. They were debating when are current problems started. Paul was saying they ultimately go back to the start of last season and the Crouch signing, while Homzy was saying it is only the last six months. Why does every debate have to be about whether or not the manager should go and whose 'side' are you on? To be fair, Phil after the general malaise that has dominated our performances over the last two seasons it was always going to come down to the manager. I think it's inevitable to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 12:53:50 GMT
There are very much nut jobs and each side. Pro Pulis who can not see the rut that we are stuck in and more importantly WHY. Then Anti Pulis stoke fans who think mocking up a picture of Tone with a pigs head is going to get any productive debating from either side.
As long as opinions are taken into consideration and not just rubbished because they differ from the rest then thats all fair and good along with the banter.
The facebook stalking, Threats, Name calling and even to a degree some of the offensive and needless slurs should be reported surely? (without getting too PC)
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Post by philm87 on Apr 3, 2013 12:55:21 GMT
Yeah I think I will follow Jamo's advice a bit more from now on. Although I have never felt the urge to click on Stafford's link by the way and I very much doubt Foster was doing it because he was concerned about internet security.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2013 12:56:24 GMT
There are very much nut jobs and each side. Pro Pulis who can not see the rut that we are stuck in and more importantly WHY. Then Anti Pulis stoke fans who think mocking up a picture of Tone with a pigs head is going to get any productive debating from either side. As long as opinions are taken into consideration and not just rubbished because they differ from the rest then thats all fair and good along with the banter. The facebook stalking, Threats, Name calling and even to a degree some of the offensive and needless slurs should be reported surely? (without getting to PC) Reported? To who? This is what I don't get, it's the Internet, it's all a bit of harmless fun in this state and means fuck all. We're all a massive irrelevance.
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 12:57:44 GMT
There are very much nut jobs and each side. Pro Pulis who can not see the rut that we are stuck in and more importantly WHY. Then Anti Pulis stoke fans who think mocking up a picture of Tone with a pigs head is going to get any productive debating from either side. As long as opinions are taken into consideration and not just rubbished because they differ from the rest then thats all fair and good along with the banter. The facebook stalking, Threats, Name calling and even to a degree some of the offensive and needless slurs should be reported surely? (without getting to PC) If following a link that he posted on his profile for people to follow constitutes stalking then I'm guilty as charged.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2013 12:58:10 GMT
Yeah I think I will follow Jamo's advice a bit more from now on. Although I have never felt the urge to click on Stafford's link by the way and I very much doubt Foster was doing it because he was concerned about internet security. I have, I'm a nosey cunt. It's like the picture someone stuck up of Werrington in San Marino, I always imagined he was bald, he isn't. Amazing. And the amount of people that think I'm in my 80's is worrying.
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:00:44 GMT
Yeah I think I will follow Jamo's advice a bit more from now on. Although I have never felt the urge to click on Stafford's link by the way and I very much doubt Foster was doing it because he was concerned about internet security. It doesn't matter what you know, it's what you can prove. I very much doubt you called me a stalker for any reason other than because I disputed a point you made earlier in this thread. ...and yes, I am very much into internet security. It's a hobby of mine. (not really)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 13:02:06 GMT
There are very much nut jobs and each side. Pro Pulis who can not see the rut that we are stuck in and more importantly WHY. Then Anti Pulis stoke fans who think mocking up a picture of Tone with a pigs head is going to get any productive debating from either side. As long as opinions are taken into consideration and not just rubbished because they differ from the rest then thats all fair and good along with the banter. The facebook stalking, Threats, Name calling and even to a degree some of the offensive and needless slurs should be reported surely? (without getting to PC) Reported? To who? This is what I don't get, it's the Internet, it's all a bit of harmless fun in this state and means fuck all. We're all a massive irrelevance. Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2013 13:06:59 GMT
Reported? To who? This is what I don't get, it's the Internet, it's all a bit of harmless fun in this state and means fuck all. We're all a massive irrelevance. Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention.
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:07:33 GMT
Reported? To who? This is what I don't get, it's the Internet, it's all a bit of harmless fun in this state and means fuck all. We're all a massive irrelevance. Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. What exactly are exaggerating about? There's little abuse on this thread. Incidentally, I clicked on the FB link because 1) He had it on his profile, and 2)I thought it was going to be some Pro-Pulis page that he had setup or something. Though if you continue to refer to me as a stalker I will report you to the mods.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 13:13:17 GMT
Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention. People do take it so very serious. Why would some spend more time on here than actually working or shagging the mrs if they didn't?!
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:15:02 GMT
Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention. Bayerncuntcake I'm going to have to remember that one. Brilliant.
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Post by philm87 on Apr 3, 2013 13:15:29 GMT
Yeah I think I will follow Jamo's advice a bit more from now on. Although I have never felt the urge to click on Stafford's link by the way and I very much doubt Foster was doing it because he was concerned about internet security. It doesn't matter what you know, it's what you can prove. I very much doubt you called me a stalker for any reason other than because I disputed a point you made earlier in this thread. ...and yes, I am very much into internet security. It's a hobby of mine. (not really) Look I'm all for people taking the piss out of others in the right context and so on, I just think that telling someone you have identified their real name by following a link they posted on facebook is a bit creepy and sort of crosses an invisible line. I agree Stafford is a bit daft for posting it though. Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive.
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 3, 2013 13:16:48 GMT
Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. What exactly are exaggerating about? There's little abuse on this thread. Incidentally, I clicked on the FB link because 1) He had it on his profile, and 2)I thought it was going to be some Pro-Pulis page that he had setup or something. Though if you continue to refer to me as a stalker I will report you to the mods. Keep yer nut darnnn Foster!
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:17:01 GMT
Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention. People do take it so very serious. Why would some spend more time on here than actually working or shagging the mrs if they didn't?! Can't you come if any better things to do than that? Neither offers a more preferable alternative.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 13:17:06 GMT
Reported to the mods?? So because its the internet your allowed to say and do what you like? Then base it on being a bit of fun? Ever heard of the phrase Trolling? It just goes to prove you can not say what you like on the internet. What exactly are exaggerating about? There's little abuse on this thread. Incidentally, I clicked on the FB link because 1) He had it on his profile, and 2)I thought it was going to be some Pro-Pulis page that he had setup or something. Though if you continue to refer to me as a stalker I will report you to the mods. Chill out I have never refereed to you as a stalker. I have never mentioned your name. I said if there was stalking then it should be reported. Honestly chill
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:18:51 GMT
It doesn't matter what you know, it's what you can prove. I very much doubt you called me a stalker for any reason other than because I disputed a point you made earlier in this thread. ...and yes, I am very much into internet security. It's a hobby of mine. (not really) Look I'm all for people taking the piss out of others in the right context and so on, I just think that telling someone you have identified their real name by following a link they posted on facebook is a bit creepy and sort of crosses an invisible line. I agree Stafford is a bit daft for posting it though. Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive. When you click on the link it takes you to his profile. I didn't know what to expect. For all I know it's not him. To be honest, once I found the photo's of his mum I wasn't bothered anyway.
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:19:52 GMT
What exactly are exaggerating about? There's little abuse on this thread. Incidentally, I clicked on the FB link because 1) He had it on his profile, and 2)I thought it was going to be some Pro-Pulis page that he had setup or something. Though if you continue to refer to me as a stalker I will report you to the mods. Keep yer nut darnnn Foster! I love that clip. I wouldn't really go to Admin. I ain't no snitch!
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Post by foster on Apr 3, 2013 13:22:31 GMT
What exactly are exaggerating about? There's little abuse on this thread. Incidentally, I clicked on the FB link because 1) He had it on his profile, and 2)I thought it was going to be some Pro-Pulis page that he had setup or something. Though if you continue to refer to me as a stalker I will report you to the mods. Chill out I have never refereed to you as a stalker. I have never mentioned your name. I said if there was stalking then it should be reported. Honestly chill So now you're telling me to chill? Like I'm irate or something? Like an irate woman who's on the blob. An irate woman with PMT who stalks people on FB? Admin?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2013 13:23:34 GMT
Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention. People do take it so very serious. Why would some spend more time on here than actually working or shagging the mrs if they didn't?! I can't say anything about that but getting Your hair off because someone disagrees with You just goes over my head. Maybe but unless it's repeat offences then I think it's pointless. No of course not but what as long as it stays legal then it's fine. Calling someone else a cunt to me is at best impolite and nothing to get Your knickers in a twist about. But that's just me. What I mean is the slurs/threats lead to nothing and as long as it stays like that it's fine. If Two posters wanted to meet up and slug it out then fair enough but I just don't get why people take the whole damn thing so seriously. It's like the playground, teacher, teacher he's calling me names, quite pathetic. And that's not me condoning it, it just doesn't bother me. My favourite was bayerncuntcake, great invention. Bayerncuntcake I'm going to have to remember that one. Brilliant. I can't remember who said it to me but it always stuck in my mind as being a tad genius. Alliteration in an insult is fine by me.
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Post by RAF on Apr 3, 2013 13:29:51 GMT
People do take it so very serious. Why would some spend more time on here than actually working or shagging the mrs if they didn't?! I can't say anything about that :D but getting Your hair off because someone disagrees with You just goes over my head. Bayerncuntcake :D I'm going to have to remember that one. Brilliant. I can't remember who said it to me but it always stuck in my mind as being a tad genius. Alliteration in an insult is fine by me. If it was abusive and had the word cunt in it there is a fair possibility it was me, and if not I'll happily take the honour. Anyone who honestly gets personally upset for anything posted on here should seriously think about stopping logging on, they are far too sensitive. H
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Apr 5, 2013 11:50:34 GMT
FFS people get a grip. Is a bit of fun and banter. If people let piss takes on a message board get to them then they have serious issues. We are all here for the same thing in the end. Chill the fuck out a bit.
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