|
Post by RAF on Oct 17, 2012 8:11:13 GMT
No what I am doing is using Momo's glorious reasoning that if JP has said on twitter that there is no problem between himself and Pulis and the reason he is going on loan is because TP believes there are 3 players in front of him in the pecking order then I am prepared to retract my accusation and apologise to TP about calling him a liar in this situation, as long as the posters on here that have been accusing JP of turning up pissed and generally being a twat and intimating this is the reason that he has been sent on loan apologise to JP , if we are to take what JP says on his twitter as the truth, which clearly Momo has. It's only fair surely? H I suppose the odds are that both Pulis and JP are being liberal with the truth. All part of the game. Perhaps just part of life. As ever, what matters is the club. Not Pennant. Not Pulis. I genuinely have no clue what's gone on but I'm prepared to trust Pulis on this one. Massive loss for us because JP is top class. Maybe now though he can back up some of his twitter claims, play a few stormers for Wolves and put pressure on TP to bring him back and play him. Perhaps so. Either way let's hope whatever decisions have been made that they are the best ones for the club not just for this season but the long term. H
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 17, 2012 8:13:43 GMT
Yes it does though RAF. Do you seriously think Adam would be playing in support of Crouch if we had Etherington and Pennant on the wings? Walters was moved out wide to accommodate Adam and he's there rather than Pennant because he is STILL required to plug gaps across the midfield (as well as play wide) because Adam doesn't have the energy or stamina to cover the areas that Walters was consistently asked to cover. Walters is STILL largely doing that as well as trying to satisfy those who expect him to be a winger AND get in on goal to support Crouch. Walters has always had a thankless task at Stoke and he still does. He's played very well so far this season. # You mean like when we played two wingers with Walters supporting KJ, when we played the best football of our time under Pulis? There is no reason why we can't play with two wingers apart from the fact TP like to shoehorn his faves in when he can. Adam doesn't need to do the donkey work, we have N'Zonzi for that. H N'Zonzi is but one man, tasked with shielding the back four. Can he be expected to press and harry the opposition higher up the pitch too. You ask too much of him B
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 8:14:54 GMT
IF there is no problem with JP and TP then it really is a ridiculous situation as we have effectively paid 3m for a player to replace Pennant who is nowhere near as good as him. To compound that initial error, we have then given Wolves the better player of the two on loan. That is a ridiculous state of affairs. Despite the protestations of both TP and JP and my obvious opinions on TP, I refuse to believe that TP doesn't actually recognise talent. Anyone with half a brain can see that Pennant is a better player than Kightly and Walters from a wide position as well as Shotton, Rory, Whitehead and whoever else has been used ahead of him in the last 12 months. That's a pretty measured and sensible post DJ even if I disagree with you on some of the issues. However, is it REALLY fair to decide which of the two are better wingers based on the 7 games Kightly has played, mostly against top opposition, and at a new club?
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Oct 17, 2012 8:15:03 GMT
# You mean like when we played two wingers with Walters supporting KJ, when we played the best football of our time under Pulis? There is no reason why we can't play with two wingers apart from the fact TP like to shoehorn his faves in when he can. Adam doesn't need to do the donkey work, we have N'Zonzi for that. H N'Zonzi is but one man, tasked with shielding the back four. Can he be expected to press and harry the opposition higher up the pitch too. You ask too much of him B It's exactly the job Dean Whitehead has been asked to do for his time at Stoke, I don't see the problem. H
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Oct 17, 2012 8:17:48 GMT
I suppose the odds are that both Pulis and JP are being liberal with the truth. All part of the game. Perhaps just part of life. As ever, what matters is the club. Not Pennant. Not Pulis. I genuinely have no clue what's gone on but I'm prepared to trust Pulis on this one. Massive loss for us because JP is top class. Maybe now though he can back up some of his twitter claims, play a few stormers for Wolves and put pressure on TP to bring him back and play him. Perhaps so. Either way let's hope whatever decisions have been made that they are the best ones for the club not just for this season but the long term. H Absolutely.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 17, 2012 8:21:07 GMT
Does RAF owe Pulis an apology then. I'm sure it will be forthcoming in a humble style Yep he can have an apology from me as soon as everyone on this board apologises to Pennant for all the shit he has been given and the bullshit about getting pissed all the time and being a bad egg is the reason he is being sent out on loan. I shall not hold my breath though. H My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 17, 2012 8:21:36 GMT
N'Zonzi is but one man, tasked with shielding the back four. Can he be expected to press and harry the opposition higher up the pitch too. You ask too much of him B It's exactly the job Dean Whitehead has been asked to do for his time at Stoke, I don't see the problem. H I've never seen N'Zonzi tear around like a loon ala Whitehead though. Just doesn't seem his game. I don't want to see him shoehorned into a role that doesn't suit him. B
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 8:23:21 GMT
Yes it does though RAF. Do you seriously think Adam would be playing in support of Crouch if we had Etherington and Pennant on the wings? Walters was moved out wide to accommodate Adam and he's there rather than Pennant because he is STILL required to plug gaps across the midfield (as well as play wide) because Adam doesn't have the energy or stamina to cover the areas that Walters was consistently asked to cover. Walters is STILL largely doing that as well as trying to satisfy those who expect him to be a winger AND get in on goal to support Crouch. Walters has always had a thankless task at Stoke and he still does. He's played very well so far this season. # You mean like when we played two wingers with Walters supporting KJ, when we played the best football of our time under Pulis? There is no reason why we can't play with two wingers apart from the fact TP like to shoehorn his faves in when he can. Adam doesn't need to do the donkey work, we have N'Zonzi for that. H You sort of prove my point for me RAF. Yes we did play with two wingers (both in great form) when we had the added security of WALTERS as the supporting striker. The manager clearly wants to see if Adam can improve us as the support to Crouch (still much to prove there) but he NEEDS Walters on the pitch because Adam can nowhere near cover the areas that Walters was covering. We can discuss the merits or otherwise of that thinking from Pulis but it's still the case that Walters is in for Pennant because Adam is playing. The same would also be true if Owen were to get on the pitch. The balance of the team looks good and we've played some very tough opening fixtures and looked pretty decent on the whole and Walters has made a telling contribution to that. No one is arguing that Walters is a better winger than Pennant but, the point is, he's NOT playing the same role as the emphasis of the team has switched slightly. BTW: NZonzi isn't doing any more of the 'Donkey Work' than Whelan, Delap or Whitehead have ever done. He's just BETTER.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 17, 2012 8:30:03 GMT
It may be harsh to comment on Kightly in this way after only 7 games but he looks pretty bang average to me. He has no pace to speak of and doesn't seem to possess a trick to compensate for that lack of genuine pace. His delivery has been poor as well which is evidenced by his ludicrously pathetic attempt at playing Adam in for a free shot on goal from 8 yards out v Liverpool.
Even if he goes on to transform himself and become a brilliant player for us, Pennant remains a better option than Walters in a wide position. Of that, there can be absolutely no doubt.
If there isn't a problem it is a ridiculous state of affairs as we are effectively ousting one of our better and more talented players. I don't think TP would do that if there wasn't a problem of some kind!
If everything is "hunky dory" between the two, it makes no sense whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 8:36:37 GMT
It may be harsh to comment on Kightly in this way after only 7 games but he looks pretty bang average to me. He has no pace to speak of and doesn't seem to possess a trick to compensate for that lack of genuine pace. His delivery has been poor as well which is evidenced by his ludicrously pathetic attempt at playing Adam in for a free shot on goal from 8 yards out v Liverpool. Even if he goes on to transform himself and become a brilliant player for us, Pennant remains a better option than Walters in a wide position. Of that, there can be absolutely no doubt. If there isn't a problem it is a ridiculous state of affairs as we are effectively ousting one of our better and more talented players. I don't think TP would do that if there wasn't a problem of some kind! If everything is "hunky dory" between the two, it makes no sense whatsoever. Mate, everything is clearly NOT Hunky Dory between them but that's the line they've chosen to take. And, yet again, Pennant IS a better winger than Walters but Walters is there for tactical reasons rather than his ability as a winger. Pulis selects him for his overall contribution and not simply his wing play. An outrageous example I know but it highlights my point.......... England had a whole host of outstanding wingers in 1966 but chose to play Alan Ball on the right wing. He was selected in front of many wingers who were far better wingers than him. However, he was in the side for tactical reasons and because of what he offered to the team as a whole. He was the right choice. It's never as simple as many would like to make it. Pennant is a better winger than Walters for sure but, in this set up, Walters offers more to the team effort as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 17, 2012 8:40:27 GMT
It may be harsh to comment on Kightly in this way after only 7 games but he looks pretty bang average to me. He has no pace to speak of and doesn't seem to possess a trick to compensate for that lack of genuine pace. His delivery has been poor as well which is evidenced by his ludicrously pathetic attempt at playing Adam in for a free shot on goal from 8 yards out v Liverpool. Even if he goes on to transform himself and become a brilliant player for us, Pennant remains a better option than Walters in a wide position. Of that, there can be absolutely no doubt. If there isn't a problem it is a ridiculous state of affairs as we are effectively ousting one of our better and more talented players. I don't think TP would do that if there wasn't a problem of some kind! If everything is "hunky dory" between the two, it makes no sense whatsoever. Hopefully we'll see a bit more of this against the Stokes et al of the league. Would be good to see him played on the right in his proper position
|
|
|
Post by stokelad84 on Oct 17, 2012 9:37:32 GMT
My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite. He's been a fan for 37 years. He can say and do whatever he wanta.
|
|
|
Post by rubyonrails on Oct 17, 2012 9:40:12 GMT
Yep he can have an apology from me as soon as everyone on this board apologises to Pennant for all the shit he has been given and the bullshit about getting pissed all the time and being a bad egg is the reason he is being sent out on loan. I shall not hold my breath though. H My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite. Hear, hear. Let's be having this apology out of you RAF. We all recognise that your having "never told a lie" also indicates that your personal integrity must shine like an incorruptible beacon of truth too
|
|
|
Post by rubyonrails on Oct 17, 2012 9:42:10 GMT
My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite. He's been a fan for 37 years. He can say and do whatever he wanta. Except tell lies and issue apologies when required, it would seem.
|
|
|
Post by stokelad84 on Oct 17, 2012 9:46:09 GMT
That's his prerogative. He'll be around longer than anybody else remember...
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Oct 17, 2012 10:29:34 GMT
Yep he can have an apology from me as soon as everyone on this board apologises to Pennant for all the shit he has been given and the bullshit about getting pissed all the time and being a bad egg is the reason he is being sent out on loan. I shall not hold my breath though. H My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite. It wasnt even an attempt at an apology. Like I have said when the posters who were quite happy to write the whole episode off as JP's discipline problem apologise, then I will whole heartedly follow suit, as unlike you Momo I've admitted being wrong before. H
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Oct 17, 2012 10:31:55 GMT
That's his prerogative. He'll be around longer than anybody else remember... Shouldnt you still be wanking yourself off over your teams 3-0 win this week? I mean you trying to deride anyone on this board is a bit fucking rich given your history isnt it sunshine? H
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 17, 2012 10:40:56 GMT
My dear Mr 'never told a lie' RAF. That's a very poor apology isn't it? If you bothered reading my posts, you will have noticed that I suggested that perhaps there really was no problem between the two and the only misdemeanour I mentioned was the one he admitted and was convicted of in a court of law. Now come on, for once in your sad manager hating life, give Sir Tony the apology he deserves for you calling him a 'fucking liar'. Anything less would make you a fucking blazing hypocrite. It wasnt even an attempt at an apology. Like I have said when the posters who were quite happy to write the whole episode off as JP's discipline problem apologise, then I will whole heartedly follow suit, as unlike you Momo I've admitted being wrong before. H Well if you're not going to apologize than at least have the common decency to call Pennant a 'fucking liar'.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 10:41:21 GMT
To be honest, i'm not really interested in what JP says on Twitter. Stoke fans are going to form their own opinions based on the facts surrounding the past misdemeanours, who said/did what and how the players and the team performs on the pitch. They will invariably add a little conjecture of their own, rightly or wrongly. JP: the best advice we can all offer to you is to keep your head down and let your football do the talking. I don't think that there is a single SCFC fan who is happy to see you go (even on loan) and i'd say the majority of Stokies would put you down as a permanent fixture in the first XI. But when our Manager gets put through the mill as a result of a situation like this - people will react, especially on this board. We all know that Pulis has his fair share of detractors and supporters but the narrative for this particular thread seems to be what is Pulis thinking? What is really going on and why has this happened? It's our club and we are perfectly entitled to debate the matter, but in the end it usually breaks down to an abusive row over our Managers clueless role in any given scenario and the fact that everything that goes wrong in the world is somehow Tony Pulis' fault. Good luck at Wolves JP. PS Are you a Wankstain or a Rimmer? Ruby , given the fact that i am certainly NOT one of those who fall into the camp of those who berate the manager at every opportunity i am actually 100% with you on this. i agree that we are all speculating on the why's and wherefores as to why he's gone/the situation has gone on so long but we are mostly all in agreement that given the choice we would have him playing every week. JP if you ARE reading this board then listen to Ruby and the others who have said we would like to back in the team but please stop tweeting your every thought, action and bowel movement, grow up and start acting like a professional and get on with your football...that is, after all, why you get paid tens of thousands of pounds every week! let your football do the talking and prove to TP that you still have a lot to give to Stoke!!
|
|
|
Post by stokelad84 on Oct 17, 2012 11:10:43 GMT
That's his prerogative. He'll be around longer than anybody else remember... Shouldnt you still be wanking yourself off over your teams 3-0 win this week? I mean you trying to deride anyone on this board is a bit fucking rich given your history isnt it sunshine? H Stoke City didn't play during the week. It was an international break you silly boy
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Oct 17, 2012 11:27:39 GMT
It wasnt even an attempt at an apology. Like I have said when the posters who were quite happy to write the whole episode off as JP's discipline problem apologise, then I will whole heartedly follow suit, as unlike you Momo I've admitted being wrong before. H Well if you're not going to apologize than at least have the common decency to call Pennant a 'fucking liar'. He cant be can he ? Not if you are going to use his tweet as a point of fact that there isnt a problem? I'll tell you what, instead of everyone that said it was Pennant turning up pissed and that was the reason he was loaned, I'll take a post from The Wisemaster saying he was talking through his missinformed back passage and I will delight you with a full and frank apology to TP about calling him a liar in this episode. H
|
|
|
Post by rubyonrails on Oct 17, 2012 11:28:50 GMT
To be honest, i'm not really interested in what JP says on Twitter. Stoke fans are going to form their own opinions based on the facts surrounding the past misdemeanours, who said/did what and how the players and the team performs on the pitch. They will invariably add a little conjecture of their own, rightly or wrongly. JP: the best advice we can all offer to you is to keep your head down and let your football do the talking. I don't think that there is a single SCFC fan who is happy to see you go (even on loan) and i'd say the majority of Stokies would put you down as a permanent fixture in the first XI. But when our Manager gets put through the mill as a result of a situation like this - people will react, especially on this board. We all know that Pulis has his fair share of detractors and supporters but the narrative for this particular thread seems to be what is Pulis thinking? What is really going on and why has this happened? It's our club and we are perfectly entitled to debate the matter, but in the end it usually breaks down to an abusive row over our Managers clueless role in any given scenario and the fact that everything that goes wrong in the world is somehow Tony Pulis' fault. Good luck at Wolves JP. PS Are you a Wankstain or a Rimmer? Ruby , given the fact that i am certainly NOT one of those who fall into the camp of those who berate the manager at every opportunity i am actually 100% with you on this. i agree that we are all speculating on the why's and wherefores as to why he's gone/the situation has gone on so long but we are mostly all in agreement that given the choice we would have him playing every week. JP if you ARE reading this board then listen to Ruby and the others who have said we would like to back in the team but please stop tweeting your every thought, action and bowel movement, grow up and start acting like a professional and get on with your football...that is, after all, why you get paid tens of thousands of pounds every week! let your football do the talking and prove to TP that you still have a lot to give to Stoke!! Looks like we are back in love Millsy! Now come on RAF, just a little weeny apology...
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 11:39:49 GMT
OK come on fellas, it's blindingly obvious that both TP and Pennant are being 'economical' with the truth. There clearly has been some measure of disagreement between them but the club is trying to keep the peace. Maybe JP hasn't been moved out for 'disciplinary reasons' alone but it clearly hasn't helped.
None of you need apologise to each other because none of you really knows the truth and you're all just passing a personal opinion based on the things both parties have said. As for personal insults, you lot have turned it into an art form and some are very, very funny.
|
|
|
Post by rubyonrails on Oct 17, 2012 11:54:55 GMT
OK come on fellas, it's blindingly obvious that both TP and Pennant are being 'economical' with the truth. There clearly has been some measure of disagreement between them but the club is trying to keep the peace. Maybe JP hasn't been moved out for 'disciplinary reasons' alone but it clearly hasn't helped. None of you need apologise to each other because none of you really knows the truth and you're all just passing a personal opinion based on the things both parties have said. As for personal insults, you lot have turned it into an art form and some are very, very funny. Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up.
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 11:58:27 GMT
OK come on fellas, it's blindingly obvious that both TP and Pennant are being 'economical' with the truth. There clearly has been some measure of disagreement between them but the club is trying to keep the peace. Maybe JP hasn't been moved out for 'disciplinary reasons' alone but it clearly hasn't helped. None of you need apologise to each other because none of you really knows the truth and you're all just passing a personal opinion based on the things both parties have said. As for personal insults, you lot have turned it into an art form and some are very, very funny. Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up. Yeh I agree mate but it just escalates doesn't it? I disagree with RAF on very nearly everything but I like his posts and I like bantering with him. I think we all need to maintain a sense of humour (and perspective) mate. I don't like the stuff our manager gets called for doing his job as he sees fit, but I doubt it would bother him TBF.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 17, 2012 12:00:57 GMT
OK come on fellas, it's blindingly obvious that both TP and Pennant are being 'economical' with the truth. There clearly has been some measure of disagreement between them but the club is trying to keep the peace. Maybe JP hasn't been moved out for 'disciplinary reasons' alone but it clearly hasn't helped. None of you need apologise to each other because none of you really knows the truth and you're all just passing a personal opinion based on the things both parties have said. As for personal insults, you lot have turned it into an art form and some are very, very funny. Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up. I'm not one to go over top with criticism of the manager but Pulis is a liar, sometimes a right big fat fibber. Fact is though I think his lying is legitimate. I probably lie everyday but then I don't have people on an Internet messageboard scrutinising me in my work place. Sometimes I'll say...'oh I'll get that done for you now'. Fortunately when I do so, I don't have RAF pop out and scream.... 'Fucking Liar!' at me ;D Pulis lies, Pennant lies, You lie, RAF lies, I lie. We're all devious lying bastards, it what makes us human.
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 12:02:46 GMT
Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up. I'm not one to go over top with criticism of the manager but Pulis is a liar, sometimes a right big fat fibber. Fact is though I think his lying is legitimate. I probably lie everyday but then I don't have people on an Internet messageboard scrutinising me in my work place. When I say, 'oh I'll get that done for you now' Fortunately when I do so, I don't have RAF pop out and scream.... 'Fucking Liar!' at me ;D Pulis lies, Pennant lies, You lie, RAF lies, I lie. We're all devious lying bastards, it what makes us human. Liar!
|
|
|
Post by rubyonrails on Oct 17, 2012 12:03:34 GMT
Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up. I'm not one to go over top with criticism of the manager but Pulis is a liar, sometimes a right big fat fibber. Fact is though I think his lying is legitimate. I probably lie everyday but then I don't have people on an Internet messageboard scrutinising me in my work place. Sometimes I'll say...'oh I'll get that done for you now'. Fortunately when I do so, I don't have RAF pop out and scream.... 'Fucking Liar!' at me ;D Pulis lies, Pennant lies, You lie, RAF lies, I lie. We're all devious lying bastards, it what makes us human. What a journey this thread has been!
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 17, 2012 12:31:39 GMT
It has meandered a bit hasn't it, over 26 pages. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 12:35:19 GMT
Yes, but calling our manager "a fucking liar" is not on, when he's done bugger all wrong except manage in the way he sees fit. That particular comment is out of order, incorrect and it gets people's backs up. Yeh I agree mate but it just escalates doesn't it? I disagree with RAF on very nearly everything but I like his posts and I like bantering with him. I think we all need to maintain a sense of humour (and perspective) mate. I don't like the stuff our manager gets called for doing his job as he sees fit, but I doubt it would bother him TBF. pretty sure Ruby has a sense of humour already....he's had to put up with me for the last 15 pages ;D
|
|