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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 30, 2012 23:31:58 GMT
Kightly's 6 last games played have been infinitely better than Matty and JP's last 6 games played, ergo at least 10 people on this thread are talking utter fucking shit.
Night night.
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 1, 2012 0:11:10 GMT
Poor mans pennant that's for sure but does give 100% do his commitment is not in question Are you implying Pennant doesn't give 100%?.... apart just a couple of games I think he has always worked very hard for the team. For me Kightly is light years behind Pennant
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Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 1, 2012 0:25:39 GMT
He's a wider player who cuts inside, which works quite decently with how we've been playing this season, as opposed to our other wide players who are generally more conventional wingers and stay on the flanks. He's generally not been bad this season, though, certainly not enough to deserve the capitalization and extra question marks. He's only a "wide player that cuts inside" when he plays on the left (as he's right footed). Against us (for Wolves last season) he caused us problems because he played down the right and was every bit the 'tricky' winger that Pennant is. He's a right winger that does well on the left when asked. We'll only be able to compare him to Pennant if we play him on the right. In any case, he's made a pretty good start with Stoke.
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Post by Homzy on Oct 1, 2012 9:51:03 GMT
Kightly hasn't set the world alight yet, but he's got more pace and is more of a goal threat than Pennant. Etherington on his day was better at beating players, but I don't think we'll ever see the best of Matty again. Of the three players, I think Pennant is the best overall, but the least suited to how we're currently playing. PS. Paul, I've seen a few of your posts about the system, Adam, Walters etc - am I right in thinking you believe we should play the following front six?: Pennant N'Zonzi Second CM Ethers/Kites Walters Crouch Do you not think that would mean the return of the midfield cage, a return to reliance on the wingers, a return to our player behind Crouch spending most of his time defending and, as a result, a return to the boring, lacking-goals games we saw last season? Adam is clearly still finding his feet but I think the new system has worked terrifically well so far. If I'm honest mate I don't think the system has altered massively, just that there are now different personnel operating in it's key positions. N'Zonzi has been the biggest difference so far for me. When Tone changed the personnel around (Adam off, Walters in the hole and Matty on the flank) yesterday, I thought we INSTANTLY looked a better side both offensively and defensively. I think Walters has much more to offer us playing in the hole than he does on the flank and personally I can't really justify him playing out there at the expense of JP or Etherington. I can understand people saying the system is very similar, but I think we're operating in a completely different way. 1) The midfielders are both breaking out of the cage regularly, with more players now able to cover them. The two midfielders are also pressing much higher up the pitch. 2) People say Adam is playing in the Walters role, but I disagree. Walters was a withdrawn striker; Adam is an advanced midfielder. His main job is to get on the ball and feed other players rather than win headers and hold up the ball. However, he's also pressing high up the pitch which is really helping us stay on the front foot. 3) We still play two wide players, but Walters is regularly moving into the middle, usually with Adam moving wide, while Kightly is playing more as a winger but looking to cut in much more to get shots away. Regarding your point about us improving once Etherington came on, we did, but our first-half performance with the new system was the most we've controlled a game in years. We were fantastic. Comparing last season's performances to this season's, I can't believe anyone would want to see Walters back in the hole. I do actually have some of the same concerns as you regarding Adam, but the way we play with him in the team is so much better.
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Post by borat on Oct 1, 2012 9:55:58 GMT
Anybody tell me what he brings to the team,please? You are the taking the piss surely? In his first few games he's been better than Ethers was the whole of last season. I'd have JP on the right and Kightly on the left ( never happen though).
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Post by Fenparkpotter on Oct 1, 2012 10:04:43 GMT
Pulis trusts him to do the job he specifically expects a wide player to do, for that he's probably the best we can hope for to play week in week out. I think we'll see a lot more from him in the run up til christmas.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Oct 1, 2012 10:10:45 GMT
If I'm honest mate I don't think the system has altered massively, just that there are now different personnel operating in it's key positions. N'Zonzi has been the biggest difference so far for me. When Tone changed the personnel around (Adam off, Walters in the hole and Matty on the flank) yesterday, I thought we INSTANTLY looked a better side both offensively and defensively. I think Walters has much more to offer us playing in the hole than he does on the flank and personally I can't really justify him playing out there at the expense of JP or Etherington. I can understand people saying the system is very similar, but I think we're operating in a completely different way. 1) The midfielders are both breaking out of the cage regularly, with more players now able to cover them. The two midfielders are also pressing much higher up the pitch. 2) People say Adam is playing in the Walters role, but I disagree. Walters was a withdrawn striker; Adam is an advanced midfielder. His main job is to get on the ball and feed other players rather than win headers and hold up the ball. However, he's also pressing high up the pitch which is really helping us stay on the front foot. 3) We still play two wide players, but Walters is regularly moving into the middle, usually with Adam moving wide, while Kightly is playing more as a winger but looking to cut in much more to get shots away. Regarding your point about us improving once Etherington came on, we did, but our first-half performance with the new system was the most we've controlled a game in years. We were fantastic. Comparing last season's performances to this season's, I can't believe anyone would want to see Walters back in the hole. I do actually have some of the same concerns as you regarding Adam, but the way we play with him in the team is so much better. Its pretty clear the way we are setting up and the tactics deployed are a change from last Season. Adam isn't being asked to play the role that Walters was asked to last year. If anything, the big surprise for me is the flexibility afforded to the starting XI. Considering he is the ultimate "micro manager" I never expected Pulis to afford the players as much freedom as he has. Not just in terms of midfielders getting forward, but in terms of players swapping positions and interchaging with each other. It isn't perfect yet but its definitely a step in the right direction. I don't want to see us take that step back and regress to Walters in the withdrawn striker role again.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 10:53:16 GMT
If I'm honest mate I don't think the system has altered massively, just that there are now different personnel operating in it's key positions. N'Zonzi has been the biggest difference so far for me. When Tone changed the personnel around (Adam off, Walters in the hole and Matty on the flank) yesterday, I thought we INSTANTLY looked a better side both offensively and defensively. I think Walters has much more to offer us playing in the hole than he does on the flank and personally I can't really justify him playing out there at the expense of JP or Etherington. I can understand people saying the system is very similar, but I think we're operating in a completely different way. 1) The midfielders are both breaking out of the cage regularly, with more players now able to cover them. The two midfielders are also pressing much higher up the pitch. 2) People say Adam is playing in the Walters role, but I disagree. Walters was a withdrawn striker; Adam is an advanced midfielder. His main job is to get on the ball and feed other players rather than win headers and hold up the ball. However, he's also pressing high up the pitch which is really helping us stay on the front foot. 3) We still play two wide players, but Walters is regularly moving into the middle, usually with Adam moving wide, while Kightly is playing more as a winger but looking to cut in much more to get shots away. Regarding your point about us improving once Etherington came on, we did, but our first-half performance with the new system was the most we've controlled a game in years. We were fantastic. Comparing last season's performances to this season's, I can't believe anyone would want to see Walters back in the hole. I do actually have some of the same concerns as you regarding Adam, but the way we play with him in the team is so much better. I wouldn't disagree with much of that mate (save for describing our first half performance as 'fantastic' - I think that's a bit over the top if I'm honest), however over night, Rob VD's appraisal of the game has appeared and having read it this morning, I think he makes so some excellent observations - ones that I was already alluding to yesterday. I unashamedly quote him in an attempt to reiterate the point I was making:
"With the 4-4-1-1 remaining pretty much intact"
"If the team is still to hit top gear, some of the problems can be traced to the flanks."
"for all Walters’ endeavour and smarts in linking the play, I still feel we’d benefit from having a quicker, more incisive left footer there."
"I think we’d really flourish with one conventional winger who can whip in crosses "
"if we have an Achille’s heel, for me, it’s out wide – and down the left in particular."As I've already said earlier in the thread, I don't think we're getting very much (particularly from Walters) down the flanks, for me either Kightly or Matty would be better on the left, with JP coming in on the right. If that was to happen, then you'd have to decide if you were going to go with Adam or Walters in the advanced midfielder/withdrawn striker position - maybe it would depend on the opposition, I guess. However there's no doubting that Tone pretty much had to switch Walters into that position to counter Swansea's revival on Saturday and we not only looked much better defensively as a result of moving him there, we also looked better offensively too.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 1, 2012 11:06:01 GMT
I can understand people saying the system is very similar, but I think we're operating in a completely different way. 1) The midfielders are both breaking out of the cage regularly, with more players now able to cover them. The two midfielders are also pressing much higher up the pitch. 2) People say Adam is playing in the Walters role, but I disagree. Walters was a withdrawn striker; Adam is an advanced midfielder. His main job is to get on the ball and feed other players rather than win headers and hold up the ball. However, he's also pressing high up the pitch which is really helping us stay on the front foot. 3) We still play two wide players, but Walters is regularly moving into the middle, usually with Adam moving wide, while Kightly is playing more as a winger but looking to cut in much more to get shots away. Regarding your point about us improving once Etherington came on, we did, but our first-half performance with the new system was the most we've controlled a game in years. We were fantastic. Comparing last season's performances to this season's, I can't believe anyone would want to see Walters back in the hole. I do actually have some of the same concerns as you regarding Adam, but the way we play with him in the team is so much better. I wouldn't disagree with much of that mate (save for describing our first half performance as 'fantastic' - I think that's a bit over the top if I'm honest), however over night, Rob VD's appraisal of the game has appeared and having read it this morning, I think he makes so some excellent observations - ones that I was already alluding to yesterday. I unashamedly quote him in an attempt to reiterate the point I was making:
"With the 4-4-1-1 remaining pretty much intact"
"If the team is still to hit top gear, some of the problems can be traced to the flanks."
"for all Walters’ endeavour and smarts in linking the play, I still feel we’d benefit from having a quicker, more incisive left footer there."
"I think we’d really flourish with one conventional winger who can whip in crosses "
"if we have an Achille’s heel, for me, it’s out wide – and down the left in particular."As I've already said earlier in the thread, I don't think we're getting very much down the flanks, for me either Kightly or Matty would be better on the left, with JP coming in on the right. If that was to happen, then you'd have to decide if you were going to go with Adam or Walters in the advanced midfielder/withdrawn striker position - maybe it would depend on the opposition, I guess. However there's no doubting that Tone pretty much had to switch Walters into that position to counter Swansea's revival on Saturday and we not only looked much better defensively as a result of moving him there, we also looked better offensively too. I just don't see where the subs made any difference to our performance. At the start of the second half it was a natural progression of the game for them to come out all guns blazing being 2-0 down and wanting an early goal to make a fist of it. We withstood this well within ourselves with no real threat for Beggo to deal with. We then got back on top of the game some 5 to 10 mins before the subs were made, with Adam involved in 2 attacks that resulted in decent chances. For me the subs neither improved or hindered us.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 11:07:49 GMT
I wouldn't disagree with much of that mate (save for describing our first half performance as 'fantastic' - I think that's a bit over the top if I'm honest), however over night, Rob VD's appraisal of the game has appeared and having read it this morning, I think he makes so some excellent observations - ones that I was already alluding to yesterday. I unashamedly quote him in an attempt to reiterate the point I was making:
"With the 4-4-1-1 remaining pretty much intact"
"If the team is still to hit top gear, some of the problems can be traced to the flanks."
"for all Walters’ endeavour and smarts in linking the play, I still feel we’d benefit from having a quicker, more incisive left footer there."
"I think we’d really flourish with one conventional winger who can whip in crosses "
"if we have an Achille’s heel, for me, it’s out wide – and down the left in particular."As I've already said earlier in the thread, I don't think we're getting very much down the flanks, for me either Kightly or Matty would be better on the left, with JP coming in on the right. If that was to happen, then you'd have to decide if you were going to go with Adam or Walters in the advanced midfielder/withdrawn striker position - maybe it would depend on the opposition, I guess. However there's no doubting that Tone pretty much had to switch Walters into that position to counter Swansea's revival on Saturday and we not only looked much better defensively as a result of moving him there, we also looked better offensively too. I just don't see where the subs made any difference to our performance. At the start of the second half it was a natural progression of the game for them to come out all guns blazing being 2-0 down and wanting an early goal to make a fist of it. We withstood this well within ourselves with no real threat for Beggo to deal with. We then got back on top of the game some 5 to 10 mins before the subs were made, with Adam involved in 2 attacks that resulted in decent chances. For me the subs neither improved or hindered us. Fair do's mate.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 1, 2012 11:21:33 GMT
I just don't see where the subs made any difference to our performance. At the start of the second half it was a natural progression of the game for them to come out all guns blazing being 2-0 down and wanting an early goal to make a fist of it. We withstood this well within ourselves with no real threat for Beggo to deal with. We then got back on top of the game some 5 to 10 mins before the subs were made, with Adam involved in 2 attacks that resulted in decent chances. For me the subs neither improved or hindered us. Fair do's mate. You can highlight what you want Paul, the fact that you are advocating for a return to the bilge we saw last season is astounding to say the least. You yourself say that Swansea were a very poor team, well if cast your mind back to our Reading game they were just as poor but we could only match them with the Walters in the hole system.
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Post by lordb on Oct 1, 2012 11:22:27 GMT
imho JP didnt play well @ Wigan
no room for 2 wingers on the bench TP clearly prefers Ethers to JP imho that is the reason JP isnt playing or on the bench
thats it
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 11:29:08 GMT
You can highlight what you want Paul, the fact that you are advocating for a return to the bilge we saw last season is astounding to say the least.You yourself say that Swansea were a very poor team, well if cast your mind back to our Reading game they were just as poor but we could only match them with the Walters in the hole system. It's nothing like as black and white as that though - even if you want to pretend that it is. I think Walters is offering us very little on the flank and is far more effective when he moves into a more central role and I actually think he's in much better form than Adam at the moment - and I'm talking about this season. I suspect we would be more effective with Matty & JP on the flanks or Matty & Kightly on the flanks or JP & Kightly on the flanks.
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Post by Homzy on Oct 1, 2012 11:38:35 GMT
I can understand people saying the system is very similar, but I think we're operating in a completely different way. 1) The midfielders are both breaking out of the cage regularly, with more players now able to cover them. The two midfielders are also pressing much higher up the pitch. 2) People say Adam is playing in the Walters role, but I disagree. Walters was a withdrawn striker; Adam is an advanced midfielder. His main job is to get on the ball and feed other players rather than win headers and hold up the ball. However, he's also pressing high up the pitch which is really helping us stay on the front foot. 3) We still play two wide players, but Walters is regularly moving into the middle, usually with Adam moving wide, while Kightly is playing more as a winger but looking to cut in much more to get shots away. Regarding your point about us improving once Etherington came on, we did, but our first-half performance with the new system was the most we've controlled a game in years. We were fantastic. Comparing last season's performances to this season's, I can't believe anyone would want to see Walters back in the hole. I do actually have some of the same concerns as you regarding Adam, but the way we play with him in the team is so much better. I wouldn't disagree with much of that mate (save for describing our first half performance as 'fantastic' - I think that's a bit over the top if I'm honest), however over night, Rob VD's appraisal of the game has appeared and having read it this morning, I think he makes so some excellent observations - ones that I was already alluding to yesterday. I unashamedly quote him in an attempt to reiterate the point I was making:
"With the 4-4-1-1 remaining pretty much intact"
"If the team is still to hit top gear, some of the problems can be traced to the flanks."
"for all Walters’ endeavour and smarts in linking the play, I still feel we’d benefit from having a quicker, more incisive left footer there."
"I think we’d really flourish with one conventional winger who can whip in crosses "
"if we have an Achille’s heel, for me, it’s out wide – and down the left in particular."As I've already said earlier in the thread, I don't think we're getting very much (particularly from Walters) down the flanks, for me either Kightly or Matty would be better on the left, with JP coming in on the right. If that was to happen, then you'd have to decide if you were going to go with Adam or Walters in the advanced midfielder/withdrawn striker position - maybe it would depend on the opposition, I guess. However there's no doubting that Tone pretty much had to switch Walters into that position to counter Swansea's revival on Saturday and we not only looked much better defensively as a result of moving him there, we also looked better offensively too. I've read Rob's piece as well, but I disagree that we're playing 4-4-1-1 still. Really and truthfully, it's just four numbers and means fuck all - different people could make a case for us playing 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 - but I think you're implying that we're just playing different players in basically the same system, and I really can't agree with that. As WD has stated, Adam's role could not be more different from Walters' last season, and I also think the wide men are playing in a very different way to which the wide men from last season were. But I think the very fact that there is so much debate about what system we have been playing shows what a big change we have made - whatever it officially is, we're clearly a lot, lot more fluid.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 1, 2012 11:42:14 GMT
You can highlight what you want Paul, the fact that you are advocating for a return to the bilge we saw last season is astounding to say the least.You yourself say that Swansea were a very poor team, well if cast your mind back to our Reading game they were just as poor but we could only match them with the Walters in the hole system. It's nothing like as black and white as that though - even if you want to pretend that it is. I think Walters is offering us very little on the flank and is far more effective when he moves into a more central role and I actually think he's in much better form than Adam at the moment - and I'm talking about this season. I suspect we would be more effective with Matty & JP on the flanks or Matty & Kightly on the flanks or JP & Kightly on the flanks. The Reading game was this season. In that game we had a useless Walters in the hole, a very ordinary Whelan and a hopelessly isolated Crouch. Now we have a Productive Walters, a Whelan playing some of his best stuff in a Stoke shirt and a Crouch who is having some suggest an England return.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Oct 1, 2012 11:44:52 GMT
Not only are the tactics different from last Season, they actually change during each and every match we've played so far.
The system last season was renowned for its rigidity, the new set up is a big step away from that.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 11:49:06 GMT
It's nothing like as black and white as that though - even if you want to pretend that it is. I think Walters is offering us very little on the flank and is far more effective when he moves into a more central role and I actually think he's in much better form than Adam at the moment - and I'm talking about this season. I suspect we would be more effective with Matty & JP on the flanks or Matty & Kightly on the flanks or JP & Kightly on the flanks. The Reading game was this season. In that game we had a useless Walters in the hole, a very ordinary Whelan and a hopelessly isolated Crouch. Now we have a Productive Walters, a Whelan playing some of his best stuff in a Stoke shirt and a Crouch who is having some suggest an England return. As I said earlier in the thread, I think N'Zonzi has had the biggest impact on how we're now playing.
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Post by werrington on Oct 1, 2012 11:50:32 GMT
Not only are the tactics different from last Season, they actually change during each and every match we've played so far. The system last season was renowned for its rigidity, the new set up is a big step away from that. But you wouldnt listen when it was pointed out to you regards Whelan
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Post by superjonnywalters on Oct 1, 2012 11:51:12 GMT
Not only are the tactics different from last Season, they actually change during each and every match we've played so far. The system last season was renowned for its rigidity, the new set up is a big step away from that. But you wouldnt listen when it was pointed out to you regards Whelan When what was pointed out?
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Post by werrington on Oct 1, 2012 11:52:53 GMT
But you wouldnt listen when it was pointed out to you regards Whelan When what was pointed out? Many times that he was a victim of the personel around him and tactics we deployed
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Post by superjonnywalters on Oct 1, 2012 11:55:44 GMT
I think Whelan has been poor for a good while. I accept he has improved this Season but I still don't think he's anything special. NZonzi is still on a completely different level. He's reached heights Whelan has never managed in his years here, and he's only been here a few weeks.
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Post by werrington on Oct 1, 2012 12:01:24 GMT
I think Whelan has been poor for a good while. I accept he has improved this Season but I still don't think he's anything special. NZonzi is still on a completely different level. He's reached heights Whelan has never managed in his years here, and he's only been here a few weeks. He has improved WD because of the reasons pointed out above. Nzonzi is a fantastic player as is Adam ( hard to believe people didnt want him ) . But all three are different and compliment each other and if we were to play a two man midfield i would have no qualms about any 2/3 ? But as much as i think Whelan is excelllent and goes under the radar i would go for Nzonzi and Adam
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Post by foster on Oct 1, 2012 12:03:19 GMT
I may be wrong in this but in the current set-up our CMs are going to find it easier seeming as they're 3 of them to do the work of what was 2 last season.
In a 2 man CM, Whelan was poor and outclassed (in the main).
Now that he's in a 3 man CM, his role is easier to fulfil and so he looks okay again.
However, this shouldn't reflect from the fact that he should be at the same standard as N'Zonzi. The 4-5-1 shouldn't be employed soley to counter his inability to perform in a 2 man CM.
Think how much better it would be if we had a midfielder in there instead of Whelan, who is able to hold his own in a 4-4-2 formation. Our CMs would clean up.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 1, 2012 12:04:06 GMT
The Reading game was this season. In that game we had a useless Walters in the hole, a very ordinary Whelan and a hopelessly isolated Crouch. Now we have a Productive Walters, a Whelan playing some of his best stuff in a Stoke shirt and a Crouch who is having some suggest an England return. As I said earlier in the thread, I think N'Zonzi has had the biggest impact on how we're now playing. And you don't believe that N'Zonzi's effectiveness is going to be affected by returning to a Walters in the hole system? It would require the cage to be shut and we would be no better off. Adam may not have had his best game on Saturday and there maybe a decent argument to whether he is possibly too high up the field for an attacking midfielder but surely you can't deny that he feeds both wings and Crouch some great balls, which is something that we have desperately needed, the only thing missing now is Pace which Rob alluded to in his Conclusions and I agree with Rob that Jerome could possibly add this later in the Season but right now I think sticking with Walters where he is, is the best option.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 12:07:49 GMT
I may be wrong in this but in the current set-up our CMs are going to find it easier seeming as they're 3 of them to do the work of what was 2 last season. In a 2 man CM, Whelan was poor and outclassed (in the main). Now that he's in a 3 man CM, his role is easier to fulfil and so he looks okay again. However, this shouldn't reflect from the fact that he should be at the same standard as N'Zonzi. The 4-5-1 shouldn't be employed soley to counter his inability to perform in a 2 man CM. Think how much better it would be if we had a midfielder in there instead of Whelan, who is able to hold his own in a 4-4-2 formation. Our CMs would clean up. I'm beginning to think that Whelan and N'Zonzi might be good enough as a midfield two, I'm not sure that Glenn needs to be in a midfield three, he just needed a better partner alongside him. If that isn't true, then I totally follow the point your making ... Wilson Palacios at the top of his game (or somebody similar), partnered with N'Zonzi would be a helluva two to occupy a Tony Pulis cage.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2012 12:10:34 GMT
As I said earlier in the thread, I think N'Zonzi has had the biggest impact on how we're now playing. And you don't believe that N'Zonzi's effectiveness is going to be affected by returning to a Walters in the hole system? It would require the cage to be shut and we would be no better off. Adam may not have had his best game on Saturday and there maybe a decent argument to whether he is possibly too high up the field for an attacking midfielder but surely you can't deny that he feeds both wings and Crouch some great balls, which is something that we have desperately needed, the only thing missing now is Pace which Rob alluded to in his Conclusions and I agree with Rob that Jerome could possibly add this later in the Season but right now I think sticking with Walters where he is, is the best option. I guess we'll just have to see mate. I'm up for replacing Walters on the flank - if that means moving him to the bench, or playing him instead of Adam I don't know but I don't think he's offering us very much on the wing at the moment.
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Post by werrington on Oct 1, 2012 12:11:26 GMT
I may be wrong in this but in the current set-up our CMs are going to find it easier seeming as they're 3 of them to do the work of what was 2 last season. In a 2 man CM, Whelan was poor and outclassed (in the main). Now that he's in a 3 man CM, his role is easier to fulfil and so he looks okay again. However, this shouldn't reflect from the fact that he should be at the same standard as N'Zonzi. The 4-5-1 shouldn't be employed soley to counter his inability to perform in a 2 man CM. Think how much better it would be if we had a midfielder in there instead of Whelan, who is able to hold his own in a 4-4-2 formation. Our CMs would clean up. Out classed !!....by who mate?
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Post by foster on Oct 1, 2012 12:15:43 GMT
I may be wrong in this but in the current set-up our CMs are going to find it easier seeming as they're 3 of them to do the work of what was 2 last season. In a 2 man CM, Whelan was poor and outclassed (in the main). Now that he's in a 3 man CM, his role is easier to fulfil and so he looks okay again. However, this shouldn't reflect from the fact that he should be at the same standard as N'Zonzi. The 4-5-1 shouldn't be employed soley to counter his inability to perform in a 2 man CM. Think how much better it would be if we had a midfielder in there instead of Whelan, who is able to hold his own in a 4-4-2 formation. Our CMs would clean up. Out classed !!....by who mate? By pretty much every other midfield pairing we 've come up against over the past few seasons. I'm only referring to Whelan here as he's the only one in the team still. However we've always been weak in CM (Delap, Whelan, Deano) compared to our opponents. This is why our passing and possession stats have always been atrocious. Not to mention none of the CMs could score.
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Post by werrington on Oct 1, 2012 12:19:15 GMT
Out classed !!....by who mate? By pretty much every other midfield pairing we 've come up against over the past few seasons. I'm only referring to Whelan here as he's the only one in the team still. However we've always been weak in CM (Delap, Whelan, Deano) compared to our opponents. This is why our passing and possession stats have always been atrocious. Not to mention none of the CMs could score. It was a defensive midfield all last season and the beginning of this foster? Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc etc and they never beat us at the Brit and all with world class midfield players. I honestly dont remember him being out classed as if he was we would of been buried ? The tactics were awful but he did the job asked of him....its all relevant mate
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Post by foster on Oct 1, 2012 12:32:03 GMT
By pretty much every other midfield pairing we 've come up against over the past few seasons. I'm only referring to Whelan here as he's the only one in the team still. However we've always been weak in CM (Delap, Whelan, Deano) compared to our opponents. This is why our passing and possession stats have always been atrocious. Not to mention none of the CMs could score. It was a defensive midfield all last season and the beginning of this foster? Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc etc and they never beat us at the Brit and all with world class midfield players. I honestly dont remember him being out classed as if he was we would of been buried ? The tactics were awful but he did the job asked of him....its all relevant mate I think you're taking a bit of exception to my choice of phrasing. 'Out classed'. Basically, what I want to say is that our CM (IMO) has been pretty much the least creative or technical one in the Prem since we were promoted. It's only now (and as much to do with tactics) that we don't have to rely on long balls so much and are getting up and down the flanks with some regularity. Personally, and going back to the title of this thread, I'm loving having Kightly in the team and seeing pace down both flanks. even at the expense of JP. I'm really not fussed Pennants been dropped because the overall performance of the team is vastly superior to last season.
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