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Post by badger on Jul 26, 2012 12:25:24 GMT
Funny how some posters think a guy who has never played a game in the Prem or ever played football at a high level is going to displace established Prem players who have been established for years. A few cup games next season and the odd substitute appearance and then we will see if he is ready for the real thing. He is a very promising signing, but his time is not next season. I wonder what would of happened to Everton if they applied that logic when they signed Jelavic?
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 12:28:45 GMT
Funny how some posters think a guy who has never played a game in the Prem or ever played football at a high level is going to displace established Prem players who have been established for years. A few cup games next season and the odd substitute appearance and then we will see if he is ready for the real thing. He is a very promising signing, but his time is not next season. I wonder what would of happened to Everton if they applied that logic when they signed Jelavic? He had settled to UK life, which is one of the biggest barriers facing any new players. He had also played in a number of different countries which helps aclimitise to different styles of play. Scottish football is just as physical as English and just as frantic. Jelavic didn't face a quarter of the issues that Cameron is about to face.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 12:31:09 GMT
When is it then march, given that he's 27? When he is ready. 12 months, 2 years, 5 years, never? By which time he'll be knocking on. Great. Why don't other clubs apply this genius system to all their overseas signings? Given your love of Tone, you seem to have zero faith in him when it comes to the transfer market.
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Post by exiledstokie on Jul 26, 2012 12:31:41 GMT
I wonder what would of happened to Everton if they applied that logic when they signed Jelavic? He had settled to UK life, which is one of the biggest barriers facing any new players. He had also played in a number of different countries which helps aclimitise to different styles of play. Scottish football is just as physical as English and just as frantic. Jelavic didn't face a quarter of the issues that Cameron is about to face. March is talking absolute bollocks once again!
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 12:35:40 GMT
He had settled to UK life, which is one of the biggest barriers facing any new players. He had also played in a number of different countries which helps aclimitise to different styles of play. Scottish football is just as physical as English and just as frantic. Jelavic didn't face a quarter of the issues that Cameron is about to face. March is talking absolute bollocks once again! Sorry but the silly talk is those people expecting him to begin Prem games in 2012. That is ludicrous to the point of being laughable and I'm afraid the thought is naive. How quickly did Arismendi settle??????? He will be given time to
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 12:39:15 GMT
Clint Dempsey made his Fulham debut 9 days after signing.
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Post by jbstokie on Jul 26, 2012 12:41:13 GMT
Although it will take him some time to settle to living in England, I don't think you can compare him to Arismendi as he's a hardworker, physically capable of playing in the Prem and he can speak English which will be a massive help when moving to a new country.
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Post by stokeramblers on Jul 26, 2012 12:43:25 GMT
Clint Dempsey made his Fulham debut 9 days after signing. Quick learner, only took him a few days to learn the language ;D
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Post by exiledstokie on Jul 26, 2012 12:44:52 GMT
March is talking absolute bollocks once again! Sorry but the silly talk is those people expecting him to begin Prem games in 2012. That is ludicrous to the point of being laughable and I'm afraid the thought is naive. How quickly did Arismendi settle??????? He will be given time to Absolute nonsense and you know it! How many 1st team games was Arismendi given to prove himself? To prove he could fit into the style of play. You could count them on 1 hand. And if you're comparing Arismendi coming over from Urugauy, with little to no grasp of the English language and being only what 21 years old? to 27 year old, English speaking Cameron then you're even more clueless than I'd given you credit for! As the poster below has said, Dempsey came over and made his debut 9 days later, Landan Donovan came on a very short term loan to Everton and made a huge impact, Stuart Holden for Bolton, the list goes on.
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 12:47:39 GMT
Clint Dempsey made his Fulham debut 9 days after signing. He was hardly a regular in that first season was he? A couple of cup games & 10 Prem games out of 21, some of which were as a sub. This from a player who cost a lot more than Cameron and has become a tremendous success in England. If he took time to settle in London, then Heaven help Cameron in Stoke! It has to be 50:50 that Cameron will make no impact at all at SCFC, anyway. There is absolutely no way that Cameron will be starting games in 2012 in the Prem and to think so is putting unrealistic expectations on the lad which could lead to an Arismendi type situation.
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Post by badger on Jul 26, 2012 12:49:53 GMT
I wonder what would of happened to Everton if they applied that logic when they signed Jelavic? He had settled to UK life, which is one of the biggest barriers facing any new players. He had also played in a number of different countries which helps aclimitise to different styles of play. Scottish football is just as physical as English and just as frantic. Jelavic didn't face a quarter of the issues that Cameron is about to face. Sounds like a shifting argument to me. Both Internationals - check Both never played in Prem - check Both played at low level - check (taken into account Zulte Waragem & Rapid Vienna for Jelavic, Championship standard clubs IMHO) Surely at his age he can't be a promising signing if he's not ready to go from the off? I think we need players to shake up the first XI not more fillers and bench warmers. Out of interest who is our prem established right full back?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 12:50:35 GMT
Clint Dempsey made his Fulham debut 9 days after signing. He was hardly a regular in that first season was he? A couple of cup games & 10 Prem games out of 21, some of which were as a sub. This from a player who cost a lot more than Cameron and has become a tremendous success in England. If he took time to settle in London, then Heaven help Cameron in Stoke! It has to be 50:50 that Cameron will make no impact at all at SCFC, anyway. There is absolutely no way that Cameron will be starting games in 2012 in the Prem and to think so is putting unrealistic expectations on the lad which could lead to an Arismendi type situation. Featuring in half of your team's remaining league games is a bit different to being wheeled out of mothballs in the early rounds of the cup once a month wouldn't you say? And wasn't the Dempsey fee similar to what we've paid for Cameron, give or take half a million?
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 12:57:00 GMT
He was hardly a regular in that first season was he? A couple of cup games & 10 Prem games out of 21, some of which were as a sub. This from a player who cost a lot more than Cameron and has become a tremendous success in England. If he took time to settle in London, then Heaven help Cameron in Stoke! It has to be 50:50 that Cameron will make no impact at all at SCFC, anyway. There is absolutely no way that Cameron will be starting games in 2012 in the Prem and to think so is putting unrealistic expectations on the lad which could lead to an Arismendi type situation. Featuring in half of your team's remaining league games is a bit different to being wheeled out of mothballs in the early rounds of the cup once a month wouldn't you say? And wasn't the Dempsey fee similar to what we've paid for Cameron, give or take half a million? $4M nearly 6 years ago. That is quite a bit more when accounting for inflation. Rob. we need to dampen down expectation for Cameron. He will be a good signing but wanting too much too soon from our signings is a failing of many football fans and it adds to the pressure on players especially when moving to a new country/club. Let's give him the time he needs and see what happens!
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Post by superjonnywalters on Jul 26, 2012 12:59:37 GMT
He won't take long to adapt.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 12:59:46 GMT
Featuring in half of your team's remaining league games is a bit different to being wheeled out of mothballs in the early rounds of the cup once a month wouldn't you say? And wasn't the Dempsey fee similar to what we've paid for Cameron, give or take half a million? $4M nearly 6 years ago. That is quite a bit more when accounting for inflation. Rob. we need to dampen down expectation for Cameron. He will be a good signing but wanting too much too soon from our signings is a failing of many football fans and it adds to the pressure on players especially when moving to a new country/club. Let's give him the time he needs and see what happens! And what's the dollar price we're paying for Cameron? Fulham paid around £2-2.5m for him. I'm happy for you to do the sums and "account for inflation" by all means. I don't know if he's going to work out or not. I'm not thrilled he's apparently going to be shoehorned in at right back, but what you're doing isn't "waiting and seeing", it's essentially writing him off as another Arismendi before a ball's been kicked.
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 13:07:05 GMT
$4M nearly 6 years ago. That is quite a bit more when accounting for inflation. Rob. we need to dampen down expectation for Cameron. He will be a good signing but wanting too much too soon from our signings is a failing of many football fans and it adds to the pressure on players especially when moving to a new country/club. Let's give him the time he needs and see what happens! And what's the dollar price we're paying for Cameron? Fulham paid around £2-2.5m for him. I'm happy for you to do the sums and "account for inflation" by all means. I don't know if he's going to work out or not. I'm not thrilled he's apparently going to be shoehorned in at right back, but what you're doing isn't "waiting and seeing", it's essentially writing him off as another Arismendi before a ball's been kicked. If expectation becomes unrealistic from some of our support then Cameron could well be another Arismendi. I would say the chances are 50:50 if that were to happen. It is best to sit back, temper the expectation of our support and give the lad time to settle.
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Post by burystokie on Jul 26, 2012 13:26:12 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd say both sides of this argument have some merit. At his age, Cameron has to be more than a "one for the future" signing or it's a bit of a waste of time, so we should be able to expect some impact from him in the pretty near future IF TP likes what he sees when he's working closely with him.
On the other hand, I think a lot of people are placing entirely unrealistic expectations on this signing, which in some cases I'm sure is deliberate so they have something to moan about down the line (please note, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular - it's just the general impression I get).
1) By his own admission, TP has seen Geoff Cameron play live ONCE, and it just isn't in his nature to throw a player in at the deep end if he doesn't trust him. Maybe Cameron will do enough in pre-season to earn that trust, maybe he won't, maybe he never will - that's impossible for any of us to predict.
By the way, if anyone wants to criticise Pulis for sanctioning this signing having only seen that one appearance then please feel free to do so, but don't moan as well that he doesn't sign enough players from foreign clubs.
2) For all the people complaining in advance that Cameron will either not play straightaway, or will be played out of position at full back. Assuming we don't sell either of them, which one would you rather gets dropped to accommodate him? Huth or Shawcross?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 13:30:36 GMT
And what's the dollar price we're paying for Cameron? Fulham paid around £2-2.5m for him. I'm happy for you to do the sums and "account for inflation" by all means. I don't know if he's going to work out or not. I'm not thrilled he's apparently going to be shoehorned in at right back, but what you're doing isn't "waiting and seeing", it's essentially writing him off as another Arismendi before a ball's been kicked. If expectation becomes unrealistic from some of our support then Cameron could well be another Arismendi. I would say the chances are 50:50 if that were to happen. It is best to sit back, temper the expectation of our support and give the lad time to settle. What expectation? Nobody is tipping him as a world beater. The only expectation is that he'll probably play at right back.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 13:32:57 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd say both sides of this argument have some merit. At his age, Cameron has to be more than a "one for the future" signing or it's a bit of a waste of time, so we should be able to expect some impact from him in the pretty near future IF TP likes what he sees when he's working closely with him. On the other hand, I think a lot of people are placing entirely unrealistic expectations on this signing, which in some cases I'm sure is deliberate so they have something to moan about down the line (please note, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular - it's just the general impression I get). 1) By his own admission, TP has seen Geoff Cameron play live ONCE, and it just isn't in his nature to throw a player in at the deep end if he doesn't trust him. Maybe Cameron will do enough in pre-season to earn that trust, maybe he won't, maybe he never will - that's impossible for any of us to predict. By the way, if anyone wants to criticise Pulis for sanctioning this signing having only seen that one appearance then please feel free to do so, but don't moan as well that he doesn't sign enough players from foreign clubs. 2) For all the people complaining in advance that Cameron will either not play straightaway, or will be played out of position at full back. Assuming we don't sell either of them, which one would you rather gets dropped to accommodate him? Huth or Shawcross? Point 2 misses the point. Instead of signing a player and squeezing him in somewhere, why don't we buy a specialist player for that position? You know, like a proper right back?
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jul 26, 2012 14:04:26 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd say both sides of this argument have some merit. At his age, Cameron has to be more than a "one for the future" signing or it's a bit of a waste of time, so we should be able to expect some impact from him in the pretty near future IF TP likes what he sees when he's working closely with him. On the other hand, I think a lot of people are placing entirely unrealistic expectations on this signing, which in some cases I'm sure is deliberate so they have something to moan about down the line (please note, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular - it's just the general impression I get). 1) By his own admission, TP has seen Geoff Cameron play live ONCE, and it just isn't in his nature to throw a player in at the deep end if he doesn't trust him. Maybe Cameron will do enough in pre-season to earn that trust, maybe he won't, maybe he never will - that's impossible for any of us to predict. By the way, if anyone wants to criticise Pulis for sanctioning this signing having only seen that one appearance then please feel free to do so, but don't moan as well that he doesn't sign enough players from foreign clubs. 2) For all the people complaining in advance that Cameron will either not play straightaway, or will be played out of position at full back. Assuming we don't sell either of them, which one would you rather gets dropped to accommodate him? Huth or Shawcross? Point 2 misses the point. Instead of signing a player and squeezing him in somewhere, why don't we buy a specialist player for that position? You know, like a proper right back? There is though a point in buying a versatile player - as with Ness? Specialists are good but also limited
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 14:40:09 GMT
Point 2 misses the point. Instead of signing a player and squeezing him in somewhere, why don't we buy a specialist player for that position? You know, like a proper right back? There is though a point in buying a versatile player - as with Ness? Specialists are good but also limited Limited in that they can only play one position but I don't remember many people complaining that Steino could "only" play up top.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Jul 26, 2012 14:43:37 GMT
For what it's worth, I'd say both sides of this argument have some merit. At his age, Cameron has to be more than a "one for the future" signing or it's a bit of a waste of time, so we should be able to expect some impact from him in the pretty near future IF TP likes what he sees when he's working closely with him. On the other hand, I think a lot of people are placing entirely unrealistic expectations on this signing, which in some cases I'm sure is deliberate so they have something to moan about down the line (please note, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular - it's just the general impression I get). 1) By his own admission, TP has seen Geoff Cameron play live ONCE, and it just isn't in his nature to throw a player in at the deep end if he doesn't trust him. Maybe Cameron will do enough in pre-season to earn that trust, maybe he won't, maybe he never will - that's impossible for any of us to predict. By the way, if anyone wants to criticise Pulis for sanctioning this signing having only seen that one appearance then please feel free to do so, but don't moan as well that he doesn't sign enough players from foreign clubs. 2) For all the people complaining in advance that Cameron will either not play straightaway, or will be played out of position at full back. Assuming we don't sell either of them, which one would you rather gets dropped to accommodate him? Huth or Shawcross? Point 2 misses the point. Instead of signing a player and squeezing him in somewhere, why don't we buy a specialist player for that position? You know, like a proper right back? Maybe because Tony Pulis thinks he knows a bit more about it than you, perhaps.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 14:48:26 GMT
Point 2 misses the point. Instead of signing a player and squeezing him in somewhere, why don't we buy a specialist player for that position? You know, like a proper right back? Maybe because Tony Pulis thinks he knows a bit more about it than you, perhaps. I would hope so. Shall we close the messageboard down then? Few of us are professional footballers. No point in us offering an opinion.
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 14:50:23 GMT
Maybe because Tony Pulis thinks he knows a bit more about it than you, perhaps. I would hope so. Shall we close the messageboard down then? Few of us are professional footballers. No point in us offering an opinion. Nowt wrong with opinions, Rob And blimey, it's hot outside; too hot for gardening at my age.
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Post by boscfc on Jul 26, 2012 14:55:18 GMT
I would hope so. Shall we close the messageboard down then? Few of us are professional footballers. No point in us offering an opinion. Nowt wrong with opinions, Rob And blimey, it's hot outside; too hot for gardening at my age. And fishing eh March ;D I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed you winding up the masses today. Keep up the good work.
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Post by march4 on Jul 26, 2012 14:58:04 GMT
Nowt wrong with opinions, Rob And blimey, it's hot outside; too hot for gardening at my age. And fishing eh March ;D I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed you winding up the masses today. Keep up the good work. We are all friends really ;D
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Post by Bombus on Jul 26, 2012 14:59:45 GMT
A big difference between Arismendi and Cameron is their age.
When Arismendi signed for us he was 21 years old. It was a transfer for the future, at least for Tone who said Taggart still was a kiddie at the age of 34. Now Diego's 24 and still (too?) young in Pulis book.
Cameron on the other hand is 27 years old. He might still be a kiddie in Pulis' book, but I am sure not even Pulis will sign an American player, who's got about 3-4 years left at his top level, who will cost us about £1.6M, who can play in the positions we need depth in, who's strong, fit and quick and then put him in the reserves?
I'm pretty sure we'll see Cameron play for us in the Premier League this year.
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Post by coachragnar on Jul 26, 2012 15:40:52 GMT
As for settling in to life in Staffordshire or Cheshire, as one who did exactly that, it should be painless enough. That is.... if you don't try and engage someone with a "pits and pots" accent. Or unless you try and drive over 25 mph on a back country lane, in that every instinct for driving is wrong. Oh, and don't forget to bring your own bag to the market to bring home your groceries. Oh yes, and for gods sake, at the local, use the broad Cheshire "A" when ordering a "half." Don't make it sound like it rhymes with "laugh" or all the conversation will stop and people will turn and look at you. And Cameron, for heaven's sake don't order black pudding unless you know what the hell you are doing. If you do make that mistake, when they come, say "My god these are good, here, all of you try one or two." Oh.....and finally, don't tell people you need some gas, tell them you need fuel or petro for the car. You'll do just fine. Although it will take him some time to settle to living in England, I don't think you can compare him to Arismendi as he's a hardworker, physically capable of playing in the Prem and he can speak English which will be a massive help when moving to a new country.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 26, 2012 15:43:42 GMT
And fishing eh March ;D I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed you winding up the masses today. Keep up the good work. We are all friends really ;D It still amazes me how many fish you continue to hook with that same old wizened worm of yours, march! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 16:12:02 GMT
Subject to international clearance ?
hope not, everybody knows they never let stoke have that
Anyways -our very own machine gun toting redneck yank
(is yank still PC by the way ?)
Anyways, lets make sure we make him at right at home by buying him his very own massive trailer on the outskirts of Stoke on Trent (to live in), buy him an enormous gas guzzling four by four and fill it with numerous semi automatic guns and a range of soft nosed and semi armour piercing ammunition
this should make him feel right at home
so
Welcome matey ! (wink)
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