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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 8:41:40 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it?
Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays?
What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards?
Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not
There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made
I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad )
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Jan 18, 2012 8:45:07 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) Be prepared to be happy clapped right outa town mate. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 8:49:01 GMT
Saw far too many bad things to miss it- I can take my kids now. ITs part of the Clubs history- the first time the ground was closed by the Police was 1911, so i think its perfectly acceptable to discuss
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Post by RAF on Jan 18, 2012 8:51:23 GMT
The rave scene put paid to alot of it in my opinion. I never had a problem with a bunch of lads from one place wanting to kick the fuck out of another bunch of lads from another. What I hated was when it used to spill into the scarfers. I fucking hated seeing kids frightened to death because of the actions of some idiots. If they had just met on some wasteland somewhere and had it out away from the ground then fair enough. Saying that Burnley away some years ago I was fucking glad they were there or we would have had a right hiding by the mindless Burnley spack squad who were starting on women , children and old people.
H
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 18, 2012 8:54:26 GMT
There's nothing romantic about getting your head kicked in.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jan 18, 2012 8:56:42 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) Your cancer's in remission but you miss not having cancer any more. Unfuckingbelievable!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 8:56:45 GMT
Yeah, not a day goes by when I don't shed warm, salty tears about the fact that I can now walk away from a football match without being punched in the face.
It's political correctness gone mad.
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 9:05:43 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) Your cancer's in remission but you miss not having cancer any more. Unfuckingbelievable! Good argument
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Post by stokerambler on Jan 18, 2012 9:07:53 GMT
There's nothing romantic about getting your head kicked in. +1
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Post by spongebob on Jan 18, 2012 9:10:55 GMT
Dont miss it one little bit. Speaking as someone who has walked the wrong way or worn the wrong colour and paid for it with a severe kicking....Derby...West Brom....and saw one lad lose his eye from a flying brick!!! at Birmingham I took my kids and my wife and I now share Saturday match days....pub meal match BRILLIANT. Remember when we used to play away in the late 80s? and Chalky and his buddies would always be escorted from the home end...sometimes with women in tow??? There was a certain fascination and camradere...but its in the past and there it should remain....football is a family entertainment now....albeit for people who have £100 to spare every match day .
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 9:11:51 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) Be prepared to be happy clapped right outa town mate. ;D Why im only asking questions, its been and gone we cant pretend its never happened
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Jan 18, 2012 9:15:27 GMT
Be prepared to be happy clapped right outa town mate. ;D Why im only asking questions, its been and gone we cant pretend its never happened I am with you all the way brother but the happy clappers on the big horses might not be so accommodating. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 9:24:40 GMT
Why im only asking questions, its been and gone we cant pretend its never happened I am with you all the way brother but the happy clappers on the big horses might not be so accommodating. ;D Could you define do-gooders and happy clappers for me? Since I don't go round racially abusing people or twatting them I'm starting to become terribly concerned I might be one. Anyone know any good sandal shops?
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 9:26:33 GMT
Ha just to clarify, I dont miss being kicked in the bollocks just the electric atmosphere on match days
What im getting at is how much things have changed and why??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 9:33:01 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) i presume if there must have been a romance or there wouldn't be as many books/movies about it then there must have been a right bloody love in for the Nazis and the Holocaust (which i believe has slightly more books and movies about it) Idiotic,ignorant thread....and by "Best hooligans" (which almost gives the impression of you being proud worryingly) i'm guessing you mean the ones that were most likely to actually end some poor, innocent bystanders life with a stanley knife, steel pipe or motorbike chain rather than those useless foreign hooligans who may just give them a punch and be done with it? Halcyon days eh!
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 9:33:37 GMT
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Jan 18, 2012 9:34:03 GMT
I am with you all the way brother but the happy clappers on the big horses might not be so accommodating. ;D Could you define do-gooders and happy clappers for me? Since I don't go round racially abusing people or twatting them I'm starting to become terribly concerned I might be one. Anyone know any good sandal shops? I am talking about the ones who refuse to admit it is part of Stoke City history and then have a pop at anyone that was involved. It was part of football culture and people having a pop at others that want to talk about it because they think they are better than them is out of order. Times change and people change but you can't just wipe out bits of the past you don't agree with. This isn't a pop at you by the way just a general look at it.
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Post by chinesedave on Jan 18, 2012 9:36:21 GMT
Millwall, Cardiff and Birmingham are far worse than Stoke.
We're a friendly bunch in comparison.
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 9:45:35 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) i presume if there must have been a romance or there wouldn't be as many books/movies about it then there must have been a right bloody love in for the Nazis and the Holocaust (which i believe has slightly more books and movies about it) Idiotic,ignorant thread....and by "Best hooligans" (which almost gives the impression of you being proud worryingly) i'm guessing you mean the ones that were most likely to actually end some poor, innocent bystanders life with a stanley knife, steel pipe or motorbike chain rather than those useless foreign hooligans who may just give them a punch and be done with it? Halcyon days eh! I wish I was as holy as you My points are valid, There is and was a certain romance associated with it Maybe im not too ignorant to admit it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 9:49:28 GMT
What changed?...well there was social change, most of those involved grew up in the 1970s and 80s- life was tougher and casual violence more prevelant- at the footie, but also concerts and picket lines etc. Men did more manual work and were generally fitter as well. Those who have grown up later were more consumer driven and had central heating....England have not had a decent football team since central heating became common, our hooligans are now wimps compared to Croats and Serbs etc- .
Also the Police clamp downs and long prison terms had a big impact, all seater stadia and cameras had an impact, but the cost probably has had the biggest impact of all. Younger people find it hard to find the money to go- i was struck during my two visits to Everton how old their support was- everyone seemed grey.....Most people dont fancy a scrap in their 40s and 50s
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Post by manchesterpotter on Jan 18, 2012 9:50:02 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) I get what you're saying. I'm only 21, so obviously I was never around during the heyday of football hooliganism. There's always a part of me that wishes I could have been around just to see what it was like as an experience. I remember some fairly sketchy moments down Stoke in the late 90s and early 00s, and I've experienced a few touch and go moments up here in Sheffield, but never anything like the sort of stuff that used to go down 20-30 years ago. I boxed for about 5 years, so I suppose I'm the type of lad that really gets off on the excitement and adrenaline of the fear of taking a beating; it's sort of a natural thing for me. But I still think that not having it around is a good thing - no one wants innocent scarfers getting mixed up in something that they don't want anything to do with. Like RAF says, if the boys that are into it want to meet out of the way somewhere (which they still do regularly), then that's fine - only the people that want that sort of action will get it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 10:01:41 GMT
i presume if there must have been a romance or there wouldn't be as many books/movies about it then there must have been a right bloody love in for the Nazis and the Holocaust (which i believe has slightly more books and movies about it) Idiotic,ignorant thread....and by "Best hooligans" (which almost gives the impression of you being proud worryingly) i'm guessing you mean the ones that were most likely to actually end some poor, innocent bystanders life with a stanley knife, steel pipe or motorbike chain rather than those useless foreign hooligans who may just give them a punch and be done with it? Halcyon days eh! I wish I was as holy as you My points are valid, There is and was a certain romance associated with it Maybe im not too ignorant to admit it ah i see soemone disagrees with you so you insult them by calling them ignorant..how nicely patronising and also arrogant of you there is a difference between romance and interest and just because some show an interest (by buying or reading a book) does not display that everyone who does this is buying into the "Romance" at all, in the same way there was a "Romance" about the Krays...personally i find hooligans to be complete and utter scumbags but that doesn't mean it didn't interest me. maybe it's your ignorance of not realising the difference between "Romance" and "Interest" and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! and i apologise if it seems sanctimonius of me to take a dislike to people who would indiscrimately injure,kick,beat to a pulp, slash and mash up with a motorbike chain small children,women and OAPs but i guess that's just the kinda guy i am!
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 10:06:14 GMT
I wish I was as holy as you My points are valid, There is and was a certain romance associated with it Maybe im not too ignorant to admit it ah i see soemone disagrees with you so you insult them by calling them ignorant..how nicely patronising and also arrogant of you there is a difference between romance and interest and just because some show an interest (by buying or reading a book) does not display that everyone who does this is buying into the "Romance" at all, in the same way there was a "Romance" about the Krays...personally i find hooligans to be complete and utter scumbags but that doesn't mean it didn't interest me. maybe it's your ignorance of not realising the difference between "Romance" and "Interest" and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! and i apologise if it seems sanctimonius of me to take a dislike to people who would indiscrimately injure,kick,beat to a pulp, slash and mash up with a motorbike chain small children,women and OAPs but i guess that's just the kinda guy i am! Ah i see your'e a complete genius as you called my thread idiotic and ignorant in the first place îÂÂ… I cant be arsed to read the rest of your post because you're obviously so far up your own arse it has to be complete shite
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Post by fortressbritannia on Jan 18, 2012 10:29:54 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) No No Maybe they developed a brain cell between them
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 10:33:00 GMT
ah i see soemone disagrees with you so you insult them by calling them ignorant..how nicely patronising and also arrogant of you there is a difference between romance and interest and just because some show an interest (by buying or reading a book) does not display that everyone who does this is buying into the "Romance" at all, in the same way there was a "Romance" about the Krays...personally i find hooligans to be complete and utter scumbags but that doesn't mean it didn't interest me. maybe it's your ignorance of not realising the difference between "Romance" and "Interest" and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! and i apologise if it seems sanctimonius of me to take a dislike to people who would indiscrimately injure,kick,beat to a pulp, slash and mash up with a motorbike chain small children,women and OAPs but i guess that's just the kinda guy i am! Ah i see your'e a complete genius as you called my thread idiotic and ignorant in the first place îÂÂ… I cant be arsed to read the rest of your post because you're obviously so far up your own arse it has to be complete shite start a thread and can't be arsed to read the posts because they disagree with yours.....to be fair i'm not a genius but simply by you stating you can't be bothered to read posts that counter yours on a DISCUSSION board kinda shows i may be at least slightly higher up the food chain than your good self but i'm also happy to take the genius moniker..cheers
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Post by thestrangler66 on Jan 18, 2012 10:40:16 GMT
dont stop now lads. OR we could all meet up down the old vic and sort it out the old fashion way?
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 10:47:48 GMT
Ah i see your'e a complete genius as you called my thread idiotic and ignorant in the first place îÂÂ… I cant be arsed to read the rest of your post because you're obviously so far up your own arse it has to be complete shite start a thread and can't be arsed to read the posts because they disagree with yours.....to be fair i'm not a genius but simply by you stating you can't be bothered to read posts that counter yours on a DISCUSSION board kinda shows i may be at least slightly higher up the food chain than your good self but i'm also happy to take the genius moniker..cheers Your post disagreed with me calling you ignorant, you somehow forgot that you called me idiotic and ignorant in the first place, that doesnt actually make you that much of a genius What I did was used this thing called sarcasm, you may want to look it up? The fact that I started a grown up debate about something that will forever be in our clubs history, and you somehow seeming to have forgotten to put your big boys pants on this morning acting all high and mighty makes whatever you say on my thread completely irrelevant to me Feel free to do what you like with your moniker, I may have some suggestions though....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 10:49:47 GMT
Could you define do-gooders and happy clappers for me? Since I don't go round racially abusing people or twatting them I'm starting to become terribly concerned I might be one. Anyone know any good sandal shops? I am talking about the ones who refuse to admit it is part of Stoke City history and then have a pop at anyone that was involved. It was part of football culture and people having a pop at others that want to talk about it because they think they are better than them is out of order. Times change and people change but you can't just wipe out bits of the past you don't agree with. This isn't a pop at you by the way just a general look at it. Where is anyone refusing to admit it is part of Stoke City history? We all know it is! The people having a pop at those who were involved are doing so because they think going to a football match looking to kick the shit out of someone is a head-shakingly moronic way to conduct your life, not simply because they want to talk about it on this forum! You've missed the point completely there! No-one's trying to stop people discussing it. But many people are expressing their opinion that those involved were twats, that's the point, Stafford.
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Post by Meggsy on Jan 18, 2012 11:21:20 GMT
Football hooliganism has been prevalent in British and European football throughout its existence as a professional sport.
There is no reason we should not discuss the topic.
Those involved in the 80s/90s, fans of Stoke City can be called an array of names;
Idiots Dick heads Twats
Legends Hero's
Friends Family
Let's not forget that hooliganism was not just a problem spread throughout Stoke/Staffordshire/Midlands/England/UK
Hooliganism became a social problem and a reflection of society. I think that we can compare our problem of hooliganism back then with the problem of gangs of today. Gangs who go out with guns/knives/bats/trained viscious dogs with the intention of causing harm.
At times there were fans of this club who have followed us away and needed the help of our hooligan element 'Burnley as above' At other times there will be people who have been injured/frightened because of the actions of some.
The media certainly did not help making hooliganism a moral fear such as it did with the Teddy boys Mods/Rockers Hippies Punks etc...
Times change and people change - hooliganism is still around, just not on the scale of the past.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 11:23:34 GMT
start a thread and can't be arsed to read the posts because they disagree with yours.....to be fair i'm not a genius but simply by you stating you can't be bothered to read posts that counter yours on a DISCUSSION board kinda shows i may be at least slightly higher up the food chain than your good self but i'm also happy to take the genius moniker..cheers Your post disagreed with me calling you ignorant, you somehow forgot that you called me idiotic and ignorant in the first place, that doesnt actually make you that much of a genius What I did was used this thing called sarcasm, you may want to look it up? The fact that I started a grown up debate about something that will forever be in our clubs history, and you somehow seeming to have forgotten to put your big boys pants on this morning acting all high and mighty makes whatever you say on my thread completely irrelevant to me Feel free to do what you like with your moniker, I may have some suggestions though.... but the point is that the opinions i raised are just as valid as yours are! if i feel that the hooligans involved were morons with no intellect to express their angst/disappointment/frustration with society (or whatever ridiculous excuse they use to try to explain away their behaviour) rather than trying to dignify their actions by giving them the title of "Best" then i am perfectly entitled to express it as it a DISCUSSION board. you may also have noticed that most on here agree with this sentiment. i think the problem you have encountered with this thread (and the reason i used the terms ignorant and idiotic) is the use of terms such as "Romance" and "Best hooligans" when most feel that such positive terminology has no place whatsoever when you are discussing people who seriously injured/killed innocent bystanders,women, old age pensioners and children in the manner that football hooligans did. this is not being high and mighty in any way shape or form and if you genuinely think that people's hatred of them for these kind of acts IS high and mighty then i seriously worry! it is also a shame that at no point have you even addressed any of my points, you just seem to see this thread as a soap box for you to display your opinions and then just insult anyone who disagrees with them. hooliganism has not died out at all, it is still there it's just not focussed around football anymore; you will still see right wing groups advocating violence and conducting themselves in the same way as they did in the seventies and eighties.as i have said it is NOT to do with football culture at all; although hooliganism may have historically played some part of football's history it is simply to do with the culture and attitude of those who were involved in it,football was simply an excuse as it is easier to get large numbers together inconspicuously at an event where there will already be tens of thousands of people.it was not about football and most had no interest in football.it died out due to the higher profile of the hooliganism in the media thus leading to more stringent policing, plus the fact that most of whom would have been "Hooligans" in the past now see that they can make a profit with the same kind of behaviour (the gangs of chavs who think they're gangsters going around shopping centres etc.), they can run it as a business now rather than just scrap on some wasteground. simply, hooliganism is still about but thankfully everyone involved in football had more braincells than the hooligans so were able to rid the sport of them.
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