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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 11:41:46 GMT
Your post disagreed with me calling you ignorant, you somehow forgot that you called me idiotic and ignorant in the first place, that doesnt actually make you that much of a genius What I did was used this thing called sarcasm, you may want to look it up? The fact that I started a grown up debate about something that will forever be in our clubs history, and you somehow seeming to have forgotten to put your big boys pants on this morning acting all high and mighty makes whatever you say on my thread completely irrelevant to me Feel free to do what you like with your moniker, I may have some suggestions though.... but the point is that the opinions i raised are just as valid as yours are! if i feel that the hooligans involved were morons with no intellect to express their angst/disappointment/frustration with society (or whatever ridiculous excuse they use to try to explain away their behaviour) rather than trying to dignify their actions by giving them the title of "Best" then i am perfectly entitled to express it as it a DISCUSSION board. you may also have noticed that most on here agree with this sentiment. i think the problem you have encountered with this thread (and the reason i used the terms ignorant and idiotic) is the use of terms such as "Romance" and "Best hooligans" when most feel that such positive terminology has no place whatsoever when you are discussing people who seriously injured/killed innocent bystanders,women, old age pensioners and children in the manner that football hooligans did. this is not being high and mighty in any way shape or form and if you genuinely think that people's hatred of them for these kind of acts IS high and mighty then i seriously worry! it is also a shame that at no point have you even addressed any of my points, you just seem to see this thread as a soap box for you to display your opinions and then just insult anyone who disagrees with them. hooliganism has not died out at all, it is still there it's just not focussed around football anymore; you will still see right wing groups advocating violence and conducting themselves in the same way as they did in the seventies and eighties.as i have said it is NOT to do with football culture at all; although hooliganism may have historically played some part of football's history it is simply to do with the culture and attitude of those who were involved in it,football was simply an excuse as it is easier to get large numbers together inconspicuously at an event where there will already be tens of thousands of people.it was not about football and most had no interest in football.it died out due to the higher profile of the hooliganism in the media thus leading to more stringent policing, plus the fact that most of whom would have been "Hooligans" in the past now see that they can make a profit with the same kind of behaviour (the gangs of chavs who think they're gangsters going around shopping centres etc.), they can run it as a business now rather than just scrap on some wasteground. simply, hooliganism is still about but thankfully everyone involved in football had more braincells than the hooligans so were able to rid the sport of them. Bollocks you havent made any valid points you just waded in with insults so dont act like I started it We did have the "best" hooligans in the land, as far as hooligans go, whats wrong with saying that? I've been in fights but cant remember killing any women Your stance on this matter is just ridiculous I havent glamourised it, just stated a few facts that you obviously have a major problem with, well fortunately for me its your problem and I can look at the subject in a more adult and grown up way without throwing my toys about You havent answered any of my original questions, just insulted my OP so maybe you need to learn how to use a discussion board
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Jan 18, 2012 11:47:39 GMT
I am talking about the ones who refuse to admit it is part of Stoke City history and then have a pop at anyone that was involved. It was part of football culture and people having a pop at others that want to talk about it because they think they are better than them is out of order. Times change and people change but you can't just wipe out bits of the past you don't agree with. This isn't a pop at you by the way just a general look at it. Where is anyone refusing to admit it is part of Stoke City history? We all know it is! The people having a pop at those who were involved are doing so because they think going to a football match looking to kick the shit out of someone is a head-shakingly moronic way to conduct your life, not simply because they want to talk about it on this forum! You've missed the point completely there! No-one's trying to stop people discussing it. But many people are expressing their opinion that those involved were twats, that's the point, Stafford. There are many on this site that will say we shouldn't talk about it because it glorifies it etc. They just dismiss it as a bunch of dickheads and say these people ain't worth shit. It has happened many times over the years. Pompous people just piss me off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 11:49:40 GMT
but the point is that the opinions i raised are just as valid as yours are! if i feel that the hooligans involved were morons with no intellect to express their angst/disappointment/frustration with society (or whatever ridiculous excuse they use to try to explain away their behaviour) rather than trying to dignify their actions by giving them the title of "Best" then i am perfectly entitled to express it as it a DISCUSSION board. you may also have noticed that most on here agree with this sentiment. i think the problem you have encountered with this thread (and the reason i used the terms ignorant and idiotic) is the use of terms such as "Romance" and "Best hooligans" when most feel that such positive terminology has no place whatsoever when you are discussing people who seriously injured/killed innocent bystanders,women, old age pensioners and children in the manner that football hooligans did. this is not being high and mighty in any way shape or form and if you genuinely think that people's hatred of them for these kind of acts IS high and mighty then i seriously worry! it is also a shame that at no point have you even addressed any of my points, you just seem to see this thread as a soap box for you to display your opinions and then just insult anyone who disagrees with them. hooliganism has not died out at all, it is still there it's just not focussed around football anymore; you will still see right wing groups advocating violence and conducting themselves in the same way as they did in the seventies and eighties.as i have said it is NOT to do with football culture at all; although hooliganism may have historically played some part of football's history it is simply to do with the culture and attitude of those who were involved in it,football was simply an excuse as it is easier to get large numbers together inconspicuously at an event where there will already be tens of thousands of people.it was not about football and most had no interest in football.it died out due to the higher profile of the hooliganism in the media thus leading to more stringent policing, plus the fact that most of whom would have been "Hooligans" in the past now see that they can make a profit with the same kind of behaviour (the gangs of chavs who think they're gangsters going around shopping centres etc.), they can run it as a business now rather than just scrap on some wasteground. simply, hooliganism is still about but thankfully everyone involved in football had more braincells than the hooligans so were able to rid the sport of them. Bollocks you havent made any valid points you just waded in with insults so dont act like I started it We did have the "best" hooligans in the land, as far as hooligans go, whats wrong with saying that? I've been in fights but cant remember killing any women Your stance on this matter is just ridiculous I havent glamourised it, just stated a few facts that you obviously have a major problem with, well fortunately for me its your problem and I can look at the subject in a more adult and grown up way without throwing my toys about You havent answered any of my original questions, just insulted my OP so maybe you need to learn how to use a discussion board ;D ;D bless ya! have you even listened to yourself?????? "Best hooligans" is that a fact? is there a world cup for hooligans that we won to state that this is a fact? and what consitutes the "Best hooligans"? "Romance"? as i have stated, just because you had this idea of romance (which DOES glamourise it) it doesn't necessarily follow that anyone who saw it as interested shared this with you! You quite simply didn't state any facts; you stated your personal feelings and opinions as have i. i called it an idiotic thread as you asked questions where the answers are based around your subjective feelings towards the subject matter so it is idiotic as someone who does not feel the same way cannot possibly answer it to your satisfaction. in relation to my not answering any of your points i suggest you read the last paragraph of my previous post (regarding why did they die out??)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 11:51:35 GMT
Where is anyone refusing to admit it is part of Stoke City history? We all know it is! The people having a pop at those who were involved are doing so because they think going to a football match looking to kick the shit out of someone is a head-shakingly moronic way to conduct your life, not simply because they want to talk about it on this forum! You've missed the point completely there! No-one's trying to stop people discussing it. But many people are expressing their opinion that those involved were twats, that's the point, Stafford. There are many on this site that will say we shouldn't talk about it because it glorifies it etc. They just dismiss it as a bunch of dickheads and say these people ain't worth shit. It has happened many times over the years. Pompous people just piss me off. to be fair i don't think ANYONE has said it can't be/shouldn't be discussed or said it never happened. however i think it's a bit harsh to state that if people think that others who indiscriminately beat others to a pulp/put them in comas/kill them for no actual reason are dickheads then they're being pompous!!!! Unbelievable!!!!!
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Post by st2potter on Jan 18, 2012 11:54:09 GMT
The rave scene put paid to alot of it in my opinion. I never had a problem with a bunch of lads from one place wanting to kick the fuck out of another bunch of lads from another. What I hated was when it used to spill into the scarfers. I fucking hated seeing kids frightened to death because of the actions of some idiots. If they had just met on some wasteland somewhere and had it out away from the ground then fair enough. Saying that Burnley away some years ago I was fucking glad they were there or we would have had a right hiding by the mindless Burnley spack squad who were starting on women , children and old people. H Couldn't agree more +1 Don't give a fuck if it's 2 game groups out the way of scarfers. Old bill should just let anybody "game" meet up & not piss on others days. (Although that fat lad who tried drop kick a Bolton lad on the roundabout outside Wembley was a pisser. He missed & lay there like a beached whale ;D )
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 12:05:03 GMT
Bollocks you havent made any valid points you just waded in with insults so dont act like I started it We did have the "best" hooligans in the land, as far as hooligans go, whats wrong with saying that? I've been in fights but cant remember killing any women Your stance on this matter is just ridiculous I havent glamourised it, just stated a few facts that you obviously have a major problem with, well fortunately for me its your problem and I can look at the subject in a more adult and grown up way without throwing my toys about You havent answered any of my original questions, just insulted my OP so maybe you need to learn how to use a discussion board ;D ;D bless ya! have you even listened to yourself?????? "Best hooligans" is that a fact? is there a world cup for hooligans that we won to state that this is a fact? and what consitutes the "Best hooligans"? "Romance"? as i have stated, just because you had this idea of romance (which DOES glamourise it) it doesn't necessarily follow that anyone who saw it as interested shared this with you! You quite simply didn't state any facts; you stated your personal feelings and opinions as have i. i called it an idiotic thread as you asked questions where the answers are based around your subjective feelings towards the subject matter so it is idiotic as someone who does not feel the same way cannot possibly answer it to your satisfaction. in relation to my not answering any of your points i suggest you read the last paragraph of my previous post (regarding why did they die out??) Dont bless me you pompous patronising bed wetter, I havent sneezed I asked questions, you dont have any answers just jumped up opinions People have answered my questions to my satisfaction, rational people that can see where Im coming from So take it easy big boy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:09:15 GMT
;D ;D bless ya! have you even listened to yourself?????? "Best hooligans" is that a fact? is there a world cup for hooligans that we won to state that this is a fact? and what consitutes the "Best hooligans"? "Romance"? as i have stated, just because you had this idea of romance (which DOES glamourise it) it doesn't necessarily follow that anyone who saw it as interested shared this with you! You quite simply didn't state any facts; you stated your personal feelings and opinions as have i. i called it an idiotic thread as you asked questions where the answers are based around your subjective feelings towards the subject matter so it is idiotic as someone who does not feel the same way cannot possibly answer it to your satisfaction. in relation to my not answering any of your points i suggest you read the last paragraph of my previous post (regarding why did they die out??) Dont bless me you pompous patronising bed wetter, I havent sneezed I asked questions, you dont have any answers just jumped up opinions People have answered my questions to my satisfaction, rational people that can see where Im coming from So take it easy big boy So my opinions are jumped up whereas yours are valid? nice intellect displayed there people who gave you the same answer as me re: where did hooligansim go but hey, don't expect you to have the spare braincells to read more than one post without your brain exploding! "Dont bless me you pompous patronising bed wetter, I havent sneezed" by the way nice touch using the word patronised in that statement...oh the irony ;D just a shame that it's people like you that give the term "Knuckle dragger" a bad name
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 18, 2012 12:09:35 GMT
I pretty much miss everything that football used to be when it was the entertainment of choice for the working man and not just another corporate jolly for fat middle aged businessmen to 'attend' so they can twattle on to each other about how important they are whilst eating prawn sandwiches in their nice warm executive box which might not as well have a window overlooking the pitch.
Then there's the nouveaux 'fashionistas', the gloryhunters, the girly men and the sky boys who play fifa 12 on their PS3's and think they know about football, constantly spewing Sky soundbites such as Andy Twatheads "Take a bow son" and such shite.
In a way I do miss the edge that games used to carry. I even miss the bother an a strange sort of way. I miss games played on a Saturday at 3.00, games played in the snow with an orange ball, beer on the terraces, and no fucking play offs to screw extra money at the expense of teams who in truth should be promoted.
I miss stadia with some fucking character, not homogenised lego monoliths.
I miss when players used to kiss the badge because they gave a damn, not so it get caught on fucking camera.
Yeah .... I miss proper football. I wish I didn't give a fuck about Stoke so I wouldn'g get so many fucking chest pains from anger at wankers who slight us for the way we play, or some of TP's 'judgement calls' that make me want to pull my own fucking hair out one by one with a pair of fucking tweezers.
Think I'd best stop now or I'll have a fucking coronary.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:18:15 GMT
Where is anyone refusing to admit it is part of Stoke City history? We all know it is! The people having a pop at those who were involved are doing so because they think going to a football match looking to kick the shit out of someone is a head-shakingly moronic way to conduct your life, not simply because they want to talk about it on this forum! You've missed the point completely there! No-one's trying to stop people discussing it. But many people are expressing their opinion that those involved were twats, that's the point, Stafford. There are many on this site that will say we shouldn't talk about it because it glorifies it etc. They just dismiss it as a bunch of dickheads and say these people ain't worth shit. It has happened many times over the years. Pompous people just piss me off. I suspect you're confusing your arguments here. No-one has said it can't discussed. I suspect some folk in the past have posted that they don't like to see it glamourised or romanticised as has been done here. That's their opinion of hooliganism, not whether it's a fit topic for discussion. Is this what you meant by "being happy clapped out of town"? The majority of people on this board think these people were twats, as you can see from this thread. I'm interested to know why that makes them pompous or on a "high horse", if that's what you meant?
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 12:21:43 GMT
Dont bless me you pompous patronising bed wetter, I havent sneezed I asked questions, you dont have any answers just jumped up opinions People have answered my questions to my satisfaction, rational people that can see where Im coming from So take it easy big boy So my opinions are jumped up whereas yours are valid? nice intellect displayed there people who gave you the same answer as me re: where did hooligansim go but hey, don't expect you to have the spare braincells to read more than one post without your brain exploding! "Dont bless me you pompous patronising bed wetter, I havent sneezed" by the way nice touch using the word patronised in that statement...oh the irony ;D just a shame that it's people like you that give the term "Knuckle dragger" a bad name You are so intelligent When you learn that debating isnt about instantly berating the person that started the debate and actually answering the questions then come back with your irony I told you I didnt read that post because you started it like a moron, if you gave me the same answer as someone previously then that doesnt say much for your enormous brain does it
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 12:24:25 GMT
There are many on this site that will say we shouldn't talk about it because it glorifies it etc. They just dismiss it as a bunch of dickheads and say these people ain't worth shit. It has happened many times over the years. Pompous people just piss me off. I suspect you're confusing your arguments here. No-one has said it can't discussed. I suspect some folk in the past have posted that they don't like to see it glamourised or romanticised as has been done here. That's their opinion of hooliganism, not whether it's a fit topic for discussion. Is this what you meant by "being happy clapped out of town"? The majority of people on this board think these people were twats, as you can see from this thread. I'm interested to know why that makes them pompous, if that's what you meant? The only pompous person ive witnessed is the genius from mickleover Everyone else has made intersting and valid points which is what I was after He went on the attack for no reason thus making himself look pompous and patronising
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Post by bristolpotter on Jan 18, 2012 12:27:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:27:57 GMT
Fair enough.
What's your opinion of our hooligan past then, randomslaphappy? Be honest ;D
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 12:32:10 GMT
Fair enough. What's your opinion of our hooligan past then, randomslaphappy? Be honest ;D Hooliganism is wrong, gave us bad publicity, but it happened and its over The electricity in the air on matchdays is virtually gone compared to how it used to be It seems to have coincided with the demise of hooligans Discuss?
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 18, 2012 12:35:18 GMT
Fair enough. What's your opinion of our hooligan past then, randomslaphappy? Be honest ;D Hooliganism is wrong, gave us bad publicity, but it happened and its over The electricity in the air on matchdays is virtually gone compared to how it used to be Its seems to have coincided with the demise of hooligans Discuss?Well nowadays I tend to prefer Karen Gillan to Nicole Kidman. Strange that they are both redheads as I've never really been out with a ginger and never really wanted to, but I'd rip the front AND back doors of both of them and make them feel like an express train had just been through them ???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:44:47 GMT
Fair enough. What's your opinion of our hooligan past then, randomslaphappy? Be honest ;D Hooliganism is wrong, gave us bad publicity, but it happened and its over The electricity in the air on matchdays is virtually gone compared to how it used to be It seems to have coincided with the demise of hooligans Discuss? the electricity back then though was hostile, intimadating and actually one of the reasons that thousands stayed away from matches in the first place. i wouldn't agree that there isn't the same amount of atmosphere there now, just that it's a different kind of atmosphere.the adrenalin back then that we all got at games was more often than not increased by taunting other fans (initiated by the hooligans and the crowd getting swept up in it and being carried along), fear and the general sense that anything could kick off at any moment so i'm quite happy that the atmos has changed in that respect,i personally believe that the elctricity now is far better as it is purely based around the game itself rather than the foreboding worry that you may get caught up in something altogether more unsavoury after the match.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:45:04 GMT
I'm not sure I really remember that electricity you mention, perhaps because I was never one for looking for trouble or ever being interested in anything beyond the football?
I definitely miss the excitement of being wedged into an away end (Hillsborough notwithstanding of course) and having been to many Blues-Villa derbies in the early 80s (brother's a Bluenose) was aware of the tension between the fans.
I suppose all seater stadia had a lot to do with killing off hooliganism inside grounds. Being sat down for long periods probably goes some way to calming you down a bit.
The trouble with romanticising hooliganism is the bollocks that goes with it. It was never just about two sets of lads seeking each other out and kicking it off. Innocent fans always got caught up in it. Don't let anyone try to tell you "scarfers" were treated like they were neutral Switzerland or something! Remember what happened at ManU 2 seasons ago - innocent Stokies attacked, it was always like that at ManU, Stoke, Blues, Wolves etc etc.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jan 18, 2012 12:53:16 GMT
Do people who buy Pantene and people who buy Loreal get together to fight because they buy different shampoos?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 12:56:09 GMT
Those Loreal buying wankers
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 18, 2012 12:57:04 GMT
Hooliganism is wrong, gave us bad publicity, but it happened and its over The electricity in the air on matchdays is virtually gone compared to how it used to be It seems to have coincided with the demise of hooligans Discuss? the electricity back then though was hostile, intimadating and actually one of the reasons that thousands stayed away from matches in the first place. i wouldn't agree that there isn't the same amount of atmosphere there now, just that it's a different kind of atmosphere.the adrenalin back then that we all got at games was more often than not increased by taunting other fans (initiated by the hooligans and the crowd getting swept up in it and being carried along), fear and the general sense that anything could kick off at any moment so i'm quite happy that the atmos has changed in that respect,i personally believe that the elctricity now is far better as it is purely based around the game itself rather than the foreboding worry that you may get caught up in something altogether more unsavoury after the match. Thankyou Youre right, the atmosphere can be flat just lately but its probably more to do with peoples expectations than anything else
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 13:02:44 GMT
the electricity back then though was hostile, intimadating and actually one of the reasons that thousands stayed away from matches in the first place. i wouldn't agree that there isn't the same amount of atmosphere there now, just that it's a different kind of atmosphere.the adrenalin back then that we all got at games was more often than not increased by taunting other fans (initiated by the hooligans and the crowd getting swept up in it and being carried along), fear and the general sense that anything could kick off at any moment so i'm quite happy that the atmos has changed in that respect,i personally believe that the elctricity now is far better as it is purely based around the game itself rather than the foreboding worry that you may get caught up in something altogether more unsavoury after the match. Thankyou Youre right, the atmosphere can be flat just lately but its probably more to do with peoples expectations than anything else specifcally at the moment i think you're spot on,because of us "Overachieving" as TP would say the crowd aren't as happy with a draw at Anfield as they were 3 or 4 years ago (although i was perfectly happy with a point) so you don't get the same excitement at all,coupled together with the fact that i think most already know exactly how we will play and approach each game so the novelty and element of surprise has gone out of it.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jan 18, 2012 13:16:11 GMT
Do people who like beach holidays and people who like sight seeing holidays get together to fight because they like different types of holiday?
Do people who shop in Tesco and people who shop in Asda get together to fight because they like different supermarkets?
Do people who like leather jackets and people who like suede jackets get together to fight because they like jackets made of different materials?
Do people who support [Football Team A] and people who support [Football Team B] get together to fight because they like different teams?
Sounds pathetic in that context, doesn't it.
Hooligans are a bunch of mongrels who should all be put down for the greater good.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 18, 2012 13:29:40 GMT
do i miss hooliganism no been there seen it been involved was it clever no it was something that happened at the time right or wrong what i do miss meeting up with mates having plenty of beers walking to the ground chanting and yes swearing and abusing opposition fans them doing likewise back standing with my mates together chanting laughing abusing opposition and unfortunately rarely our own players football in my own opinion has allowed itself to become sanitized every other week there is a thread complain about somebody swearing in front of children it is a football match not a church it was where you went with your dad /grandfather /mates i just wish i could afford to take my children sorry rant over
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 13:31:53 GMT
With the apparent decline of hooliganism recently does anyone miss it? Is there a certain edge missing from the game nowadays? What are the reasons for its decline? High ticket prices? Recession? Id cards? Lets be honest at one point we had the best hooligans in the land, like it or not There is a certain romance/fascination with hooligans otherwise there wouldnt have been so many books and movies made I personally miss it in a way ( yes i know, violence is bad ) rediculous
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Post by Gods on Jan 18, 2012 13:32:27 GMT
Do people who like leather jackets and people who like suede jackets get together to fight because they like jackets made of different materials? Teddy Boys and Rockers As for the Tesco and Asda crews, just no passion ;D
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Jan 18, 2012 13:33:34 GMT
Do people who like beach holidays and people who like sight seeing holidays get together to fight because they like different types of holiday? Do people who shop in Tesco and people who shop in Asda get together to fight because they like different supermarkets? Do people who like leather jackets and people who like suede jackets get together to fight because they like jackets made of different materials? Do people who support [Football Team A] and people who support [Football Team B] get together to fight because they like different teams? Sounds pathetic in that context, doesn't it. Hooligans are a bunch of mongrels who should all be put down for the greater good. The issues involved in explaining the where's, the why's and the how's of hooliganism are many and complex. So much so that the University of Leicester's Sociology Dept. even has a sub-dept. staffed by learned people much cleverer than I am who have studied the subject and struggled to come up with a definitive answer. So what chance have I got. I'm afraid trying to look at it in it's most simplistic form probably won't provide a satisfactory answer. For example I notice you use the word "like" with regards to a person's football team. I don't like Stoke City, I love them, I eat, sleep, breath Stoke City, 24/7/365. The word "like" doesn't begin to explain a football fan's feelings towards his/her club.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 18, 2012 13:34:35 GMT
Do people who like leather jackets and people who like suede jackets get together to fight because they like jackets made of different materials? Teddy Boys and Rockers As for the Tesco and Asda crews, just no passion ;D depends on the club card points at stake
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 18, 2012 13:58:19 GMT
If we had hooligans do you think it would stop all the stabbings and shootings that seem to be increasing in the country? Would it give people the opportunity to go out on a saturday and cause a load of trouble with their mates and get all the violence out of their system and go back to work like a normal person on Monday?
Or would the guns and knives be brought into football hooliganism and into the matchday experience therefore meaning that no one is safe?
It's good that it's gone in my opinion.
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Post by elystokie on Jan 18, 2012 14:04:21 GMT
Teddy Boys and Rockers As for the Tesco and Asda crews, just no passion ;D depends on the club card points at stake They should join forces and attack that Waitrose lot, posh twats. Just hope I'm not in there buying a cream slice when they do
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Post by tazi on Jan 18, 2012 14:43:34 GMT
The hooligan days were fantastic. Following the lads, getting pissed, smashing up towns and fighting rival hooligans....
I dont miss it now, but it wasn't half a hell of a buzz.
Now, i,m a cnut....
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