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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2012 10:29:42 GMT
So you'd basically jump random blokes? Did you know these blokes were like you and looking for hassle or did you just guess? It was pretty straightforward in truth. Sometimes, usually around Stoke, you would ask the time or make some form of conversation, or you'd just hang around with your ears open. Away from home you did the opposite. It's also usually quite obvious by someones demeanour when they are off their own turf and it's what regional accents and dialects were made for ;D I think the modern terminology would be bushwhackers. The streets around Upton Park in particular were always full of them. They even used to appear from behind parked cars and block both ends of the street off. So I'm guessing that all away fans at the time were ready for/looking for hassle?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 10:30:11 GMT
The guy I sat next to for a few hours would be about your age, decent bloke and explained that all of his teeth had gone west in an ambush at Leeds BR...it could have been that after that game there were many without teeth....I suppose looking at him he didnt appear to be the type of guy who would have kept his teeth long anyway...probably your mate?
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 19, 2012 11:44:26 GMT
It was pretty straightforward in truth. Sometimes, usually around Stoke, you would ask the time or make some form of conversation, or you'd just hang around with your ears open. Away from home you did the opposite. It's also usually quite obvious by someones demeanour when they are off their own turf and it's what regional accents and dialects were made for ;D Maybe so, maybe not, but they still got it, as did we when we went away. It was like that back then I think the modern terminology would be bushwhackers. The streets around Upton Park in particular were always full of them. They even used to appear from behind parked cars and block both ends of the street off. So I'm guessing that all away fans at the time were ready for/looking for hassle?
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Post by Gods on Jan 19, 2012 12:08:30 GMT
So I'm guessing that all away fans at the time were ready for/looking for hassle? Upton Park, you'd get challenged in the concourse in the away end never mind the streets normally by some National Front (BNP for the youngsters) style cockney geezer. It was like the wild west... If, glory be, Stoke actually scored you'd only find about half the folks celebrating. Quick recalibration of who was around you on the terraces needed
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thepom
Youth Player
Posts: 333
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Post by thepom on Jan 19, 2012 12:20:00 GMT
and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!!
With the quote above mickmills is just shows your lack of knowledge about the 'hooligan scene' .... nevermind some of the other twaddle you have written .....
What is a hooligan ?
This seems to be answered as a whole that all 'hooligans are the same'
If you ever experienced the 'culture' then straight away you would know there were / are many different kinds of hooligan ..
99% of hooligans WERE true suppoters
There were the true nutters, wantabes, mates just sticking up for each other, triers, mouthy twats with no backbone, lads just having a laugh and if trouble started then they would back up another Stokie and so many more different kind of 'hooligans / lads'
Myself i was involved late 80's and 90's but I knew that there was a kind of 'chivalry' to the whole aspect that you only looked for the opposition lads, and almost everyone i was involved with felt the same and yes we are talking about the 'top boys' .... but there were always the 'idiots' as well who did a 'scarfer' ... for which there is no excuse ...
So i bet they are 2 words you didn't expect to see in the same sentence Chivalry and Hooligans (but it existed in a massive way) and you can deny it all you want but it was there.
And by the way if you actually look at the professions of a good number of 'top boys' then you would see that it was a very high educational standard ........ (probably a lot higher than the IQ on the general forum)
But you believe what you want and take the moral high ground ..
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Post by elystokie on Jan 19, 2012 12:20:05 GMT
I Went to a great deal of games late seventies early eighties as a young lad and it did seem it was part of the football culture. I will say there was an edge every game you went too,your heart was pumping and you were really focussed and to be honest as a 48 year old man with two boys i do miss that edge, it was wrong but i cant change how i feel,there was something about the whole day,but as far as taking my boys to football im happy as it is now Just about sums up my feelings also.
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Post by pulisincognito on Jan 19, 2012 12:29:56 GMT
Hooligans are fookin *****, ruined the game for years. What you get nowadays is nob heads in their 20's who think they are hard cause they wear shitty Stone Island and some adidas trainers, seem to have to give it the big one on away days. What a load of shit, people buy those shitty SI jackets to make people think they are hard. I agree the stone island brigade are laughable, what theyre doing though is trying to be like the hooligans of old?? which is kind of interesting as to why they would want to do that?? Don't really know to be honest mate. A lot of my mates wear stone island who aren't hard at all in the slightest and go to away games after about 5 ales give it the big man to away fans. They call themselves 'casuals' i just think it is a load of shit
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Post by sslazio1900 on Jan 19, 2012 12:31:56 GMT
not read any replys but in response to the opening post
people have more sense now; far to much at risk no compaired to the olden days, CCTV on every corner etc, also cash turnstyles anyone could get in! now the game has turned on its head, no longer the working man's game, look at this forum people bleating about reporting people to stewards/club most weeks but won't say anything to them at the time, unreal people actually write there seat number down! how would these cope on terraces in the 80's?
Love Stoke City, Hate modern day football fans especially these fairweather stoke fans who we've obtained over the last few years, pushed me away for sure...... can't be arsed with wankstains who never used to support who probably used to mock us when vale we're above us us but now are to be seen each matchday with new replica shirts on.
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 19, 2012 12:36:12 GMT
Had some cracking responses on this thread
It was only intended to raise debate not pulses
Keep em coming
Cheers
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 19, 2012 14:03:54 GMT
and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! With the quote above mickmills is just shows your lack of knowledge about the 'hooligan scene' .... nevermind some of the other twaddle you have written ..... What is a hooligan ? This seems to be answered as a whole that all 'hooligans are the same' If you ever experienced the 'culture' then straight away you would know there were / are many different kinds of hooligan .. 99% of hooligans WERE true suppoters There were the true nutters, wantabes, mates just sticking up for each other, triers, mouthy twats with no backbone, lads just having a laugh and if trouble started then they would back up another Stokie and so many more different kind of 'hooligans / lads' Myself i was involved late 80's and 90's but I knew that there was a kind of 'chivalry' to the whole aspect that you only looked for the opposition lads, and almost everyone i was involved with felt the same and yes we are talking about the 'top boys' .... but there were always the 'idiots' as well who did a 'scarfer' ... for which there is no excuse ... So i bet they are 2 words you didn't expect to see in the same sentence Chivalry and Hooligans (but it existed in a massive way) and you can deny it all you want but it was there. And by the way if you actually look at the professions of a good number of 'top boys' then you would see that it was a very high educational standard ........ (probably a lot higher than the IQ on the general forum)But you believe what you want and take the moral high ground .. Spot on there my friend. For my part I am a qualified Aircraft Technician (RAF) and retrained and qualified in Social Work, Counselling, and Psychology. I also have a Diploma in Management Theory and Practice. Some people just refuse to see the wood for the trees and all that What amazes me the most is these films portraying hooligans as group oriented non football supporting drug addled idiots. In truth a great many are far from that, and an ex police officer friend of mine always said that if he weren't a copper he'd be right beside me.
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Post by Gods on Jan 19, 2012 14:08:32 GMT
Anyone on this thread waiting for a solid intellectual argument supporting the notion that hooliganism was in the round a good thing is going to have to whistle because there isn't one to be made.
What is undeniable is that it was a massive, addictive, adrenalin rush for many and sometimes there is just a meaness in this world.
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Post by petershiltonsmini on Jan 19, 2012 14:12:36 GMT
and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! With the quote above mickmills is just shows your lack of knowledge about the 'hooligan scene' .... nevermind some of the other twaddle you have written ..... What is a hooligan ? This seems to be answered as a whole that all 'hooligans are the same' If you ever experienced the 'culture' then straight away you would know there were / are many different kinds of hooligan .. 99% of hooligans WERE true suppoters There were the true nutters, wantabes, mates just sticking up for each other, triers, mouthy twats with no backbone, lads just having a laugh and if trouble started then they would back up another Stokie and so many more different kind of 'hooligans / lads' Myself i was involved late 80's and 90's but I knew that there was a kind of 'chivalry' to the whole aspect that you only looked for the opposition lads, and almost everyone i was involved with felt the same and yes we are talking about the 'top boys' .... but there were always the 'idiots' as well who did a 'scarfer' ... for which there is no excuse ... So i bet they are 2 words you didn't expect to see in the same sentence Chivalry and Hooligans (but it existed in a massive way) and you can deny it all you want but it was there. And by the way if you actually look at the professions of a good number of 'top boys' then you would see that it was a very high educational standard ........ (probably a lot higher than the IQ on the general forum)But you believe what you want and take the moral high ground .. Spot on there my friend. For my part I am a qualified Aircraft Technician (RAF) and retrained and qualified in Social Work, Counselling, and Psychology. I also have a Diploma in Management Theory and Practice. Some people just refuse to see the wood for the trees and all that What amazes me the most is these films portraying hooligans as group oriented non football supporting drug addled idiots. In truth a great many are far from that, and an ex police officer friend of mine always said that if he weren't a copper he'd be right beside me. You forgot to list your Penis size whilst listing all your achievements quite ironic when we see your user name!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 14:14:28 GMT
and it's nothing to do with being Holy, it's simply a case of knowing that just because our hooligans were more dangerous/vicious/IQ deficient and gullible enough to do exactly what they were told by even bigger idiots i find it hard to describe them as being the "Best"!!!! With the quote above mickmills is just shows your lack of knowledge about the 'hooligan scene' .... nevermind some of the other twaddle you have written ..... What is a hooligan ? This seems to be answered as a whole that all 'hooligans are the same' If you ever experienced the 'culture' then straight away you would know there were / are many different kinds of hooligan .. 99% of hooligans WERE true suppoters There were the true nutters, wantabes, mates just sticking up for each other, triers, mouthy twats with no backbone, lads just having a laugh and if trouble started then they would back up another Stokie and so many more different kind of 'hooligans / lads' Myself i was involved late 80's and 90's but I knew that there was a kind of 'chivalry' to the whole aspect that you only looked for the opposition lads, and almost everyone i was involved with felt the same and yes we are talking about the 'top boys' .... but there were always the 'idiots' as well who did a 'scarfer' ... for which there is no excuse ... So i bet they are 2 words you didn't expect to see in the same sentence Chivalry and Hooligans (but it existed in a massive way) and you can deny it all you want but it was there. And by the way if you actually look at the professions of a good number of 'top boys' then you would see that it was a very high educational standard ........ (probably a lot higher than the IQ on the general forum) But you believe what you want and take the moral high ground .. no offence mate but instead of using IQ (as admittedly i originally used) replace with "Social and moral intelligence" and i believe my point still stands. i am staggered however that you believe that because you have first hand knowledge and that some were professionals that that in some way justifies your actions??? If you really think that it can be ever justified to kick someone in the head, beat them to a pulp, leave them in a coma when it is someone you have never met, never caused you any harm but simpy because it gives you an adrenaline rush then yes thank you, i'll follow your suggestion and take the moral high ground (as would about 95% of normal society who see hooligans as scum regardless of profession...we're indiscriminate like that ), shoudln't be too hard to do!
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Post by petershiltonsmini on Jan 19, 2012 14:24:10 GMT
Mick your points are all well made and very valid but sadly when you get people on here saying they get a hard on from violence then you will never change them. The arguments put forward are all tired and frankly pathetic. It is as sensless as a bunch of hoodies stabing a man to death outside his front door infront of his family because he asked them to be quiet.
I have asked admin on a few occasions to remove posts on violence but they are not interested so the mixture of old and new come crawling out of the wood work to big themselves and others up and try and give reason to their actions.
You will never see a single stoke fan come on here and say they ever got involved with beating some one who was out numbered or attacking some one who did not want to get involved. But it all happened back in the golden era.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 19, 2012 14:57:17 GMT
There is nothing more disgusting in this world than violence. The deterioration of hooliganism is one of the best things ever to happen to the game.
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Post by digger on Jan 19, 2012 14:59:58 GMT
I'm glad you Stokies readily accept you were never at the races and were Johny come latelys in the hooliganism world, a trip to Stoke was seen as a school outing like Derby or Cov away, Utd were always at the forefront, funny now people think we're just full of day trippers, was'nt always like that and we can still be a tough place to visit as you well know! your lot are like fucking rats,your fuck all with out numbers.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2012 15:03:03 GMT
Mick your points are all well made and very valid but sadly when you get people on here saying they get a hard on from violence then you will never change them. The arguments put forward are all tired and frankly pathetic. It is as sensless as a bunch of hoodies stabing a man to death outside his front door infront of his family because he asked them to be quiet. I have asked admin on a few occasions to remove posts on violence but they are not interested so the mixture of old and new come crawling out of the wood work to big themselves and others up and try and give reason to their actions. You will never see a single stoke fan come on here and say they ever got involved with beating some one who was out numbered or attacking some one who did not want to get involved. But it all happened back in the golden era. There's a difference between posts that are glorying or revelling in the "bad old days". Personally I think it's no harm to debate it and try and understand why football had/has such a problem with hooliganism. I certainly don't want it back and saw enough at first hand to know it's neither fun or enjoyable for any sane/rational person. Like I said though I think it's important not to stick your head in the sand.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 15:09:46 GMT
i don't think anyone IS sticking their head in the sand foxys i think some are just surprised at how some on here are actually trying to justify what happened as if it was acceptable and can't understand why most had a problem with it
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Post by stokhe on Jan 19, 2012 15:12:04 GMT
some fans loved it,some hated it. "i loved it" FACT.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2012 15:16:04 GMT
i don't think anyone IS sticking their head in the sand foxys i think some are just surprised at how some on here are actually trying to justify what happened as if it was acceptable and can't understand why most had a problem with it I get what you're saying but the poster I replied to said he wanted all posts on violence removing. That doesn't get you anywhere as far as I can see. Posts that are just glorifying or trivialising the issue should be binned but a reasoned debate is what the issue needs. Personally I hope hooliganism never rears it head again in the way it did in the 70's and 80's but I have my doubts. As someone on here posted earlier I don't have a problem with like-minded individuals meeting to batter each other senseless. In fact it may well do society a favour and cut down on prison costs. When the innocent and law-abiding get affected is when I take issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 15:37:24 GMT
Has anybody ever played rugby? I can imagine that being quite a adrenaline rush!! should try that (pun)!!
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 19, 2012 16:07:06 GMT
Spot on there my friend. For my part I am a qualified Aircraft Technician (RAF) and retrained and qualified in Social Work, Counselling, and Psychology. I also have a Diploma in Management Theory and Practice. Some people just refuse to see the wood for the trees and all that What amazes me the most is these films portraying hooligans as group oriented non football supporting drug addled idiots. In truth a great many are far from that, and an ex police officer friend of mine always said that if he weren't a copper he'd be right beside me. You forgot to list your Penis size whilst listing all your achievements quite ironic when we see your user name! Actually my Johnson is a fair old chunk ;D And I didn't list anywhere near all my achievements or qualifications. I listed a few to prove sids original point, but don't let your jealousy make you rude Oops I forgot .... It already has
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Post by gonk on Jan 19, 2012 16:53:12 GMT
I'm glad you Stokies readily accept you were never at the races and were Johny come latelys in the hooliganism world, a trip to Stoke was seen as a school outing like Derby or Cov away, Utd were always at the forefront, funny now people think we're just full of day trippers, was'nt always like that and we can still be a tough place to visit as you well know! your lot are like fucking rats,your fuck all with out numbers. Well thats funny about not being day trippers ,when one of your top boys is from Hanley ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by rambomcslaphappy on Jan 19, 2012 16:57:44 GMT
Mick your points are all well made and very valid but sadly when you get people on here saying they get a hard on from violence then you will never change them. The arguments put forward are all tired and frankly pathetic. It is as sensless as a bunch of hoodies stabing a man to death outside his front door infront of his family because he asked them to be quiet. I have asked admin on a few occasions to remove posts on violence but they are not interested so the mixture of old and new come crawling out of the wood work to big themselves and others up and try and give reason to their actions. You will never see a single stoke fan come on here and say they ever got involved with beating some one who was out numbered or attacking some one who did not want to get involved. But it all happened back in the golden era. Hahaha how do u know which part of mr sausages post gave me a massive erection? Lighten up my friend, it might never happen, then where will you be? Burslem probably
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Post by buddha on Jan 19, 2012 18:14:00 GMT
i can see there being a good turn out of old lads at derby , proper old school day out
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2012 18:14:42 GMT
some fans loved sucking cock, some hated it. "i loved it" FACT. Can we stick to hooliganism mate? Thanks.
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Post by digger on Jan 19, 2012 18:16:57 GMT
some fans loved fucking foster, some hated it. "i loved it" FACT. Can we stick to hooliganism mate? Thanks.
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2012 18:21:01 GMT
Can we stick to hooliganism mate? Thanks. Ah, the good ol days ;D
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 19, 2012 18:48:19 GMT
It's quite ironic that some posters have used the analogy of Nazis in this thread as the rise in hooliganism in Stoke was a response to 'outside' invaders.
The response was the same as in any pub in Stoke on Trent or Newcastle under Lyme, even now, if someone from outside that particular area (if only a couple of miles e.g. Meirite in Bentilee), to use the vernacular, 'gave it large' a fight would more than likely ensue.
It's just a response that attached itself to football and thus involved a lot more people. But this casual level of violence still goes on on any given night so this type of people haven't gone away.
It was a totally different era and shouldn't be glamorised but the fact is it was an integral part of nearly every match at home and away.
It could be argued that once we had a mob levels of violence at home matches diminished as previously unopposed mobs didn't come.
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Post by devonstokie on Jan 19, 2012 19:13:56 GMT
Sod Derby the old school turnout should be for the Mancs, finally shut the fuckers up once and for all ;-0
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