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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Sept 30, 2011 14:43:12 GMT
Surely we won't sing it in Israel?
Turkey's a shit hole was nice and loud last night, but good job Palastine doesn't fit for Israel away. ;D
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Post by nott1 on Sept 30, 2011 14:45:07 GMT
Have you had a good look around Stoke on Trent lately!
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2011 14:47:22 GMT
Or have you ever been to Istanbul?
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Sept 30, 2011 14:49:00 GMT
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2011 14:50:23 GMT
"Iran is gonna get ya!!!"
Although might not go down to well.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 30, 2011 14:52:39 GMT
I would've thought it'd just be 'Israel's a shit hole, I wanna go home' if we're not in the mood to cause any trouble.
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Post by wembley4372 on Sept 30, 2011 15:17:24 GMT
.... I'd rather go Rome  |
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 15:22:13 GMT
I wouldn't set foot in the place given what they've done to the Palestinians for the past 60 years.
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Post by santy on Sept 30, 2011 16:03:33 GMT
I wouldn't set foot in the place given what they've done to the Palestinians for the past 60 years. Now that you have passed your judgement I'm sure Israel are clamouring to make amends. |
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Post by londonjamie on Sept 30, 2011 16:23:11 GMT
...You're just a small town in Egypt...  |
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Post by RAF on Sept 30, 2011 16:26:28 GMT
...You're just a small town in Egypt... Anything is better than the cringeworthy 'Stoke will tear you apart again' H |
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Post by londonjamie on Sept 30, 2011 16:30:18 GMT
...You're just a small town in Egypt... Anything is better than the cringeworthy 'Stoke will tear you apart again' H RAF, it comes from a long, long tradition of plagiarised songs. And it's better than that Depeche Mode nonsense.... |
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Post by RAF on Sept 30, 2011 16:31:54 GMT
Anything is better than the cringeworthy 'Stoke will tear you apart again' H RAF, it comes from a long, long tradition of plagiarised songs. And it's better than that Depeche Mode nonsense.... I know where it comes from and it's a fucking embarrassment. Pretty much the same as that Depeche Mode shit. H |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 30, 2011 16:34:21 GMT
The West Bank's Palestinian why don't you go home?
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Post by stokeramblers on Sept 30, 2011 16:39:04 GMT
I wouldn't set foot in the place given what they've done to the Palestinians for the past 60 years. How about Istanbul, considering what the Turks have done to the Kurds for centuries? You can find fault in almost every country, stop being so self righteous. "Give Benjamin Netanyahu his cards, Netanyahu Out!!!" ;D ;D  |
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 16:59:48 GMT
Know much about Israel mate? Doesn't sound like it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 17:02:00 GMT
Perhaps the Palestinians should wave some red cards at the Israelis to get them out.
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Post by elfenomeno on Sept 30, 2011 17:05:49 GMT
I wouldn't set foot in the place given what they've done to the Palestinians for the past 60 years. How about Istanbul, considering what the Turks have done to the Kurds for centuries? You can find fault in almost every country, stop being so self righteous. "Give Benjamin Netanyahu his cards, Netanyahu Out!!!" ;D ;D Don't think you know much about this subject. It's always better to gain more information about a subject instead of such posts. Turks and Kurds used to live happily in peace. They still do pretty much. It's the PKK who claimed their "own" country since the 80s, murdering tons of innocent babies and women in the villages of south-east Turkey, declaring "war" on Turkey and even killing their own kind for not helping them. |
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Post by Tubes on Sept 30, 2011 17:21:53 GMT
Know much about Israel mate? Doesn't sound like it. while I have great sympathy for the Palestinian cause, do you really think it's as cut and dry as you suggest? I've been to Israel and met many Israeli's on my travels who were great people. A little simplistic to hold a grudge against an entire nation don't you think? |
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Post by starkiller on Sept 30, 2011 17:23:02 GMT
It's full of white Russian invaders who've been led to believe they've got some middle eastern ancestry.
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 17:44:16 GMT
My view is that it's THE pariah state of the Middle East, propped up by the Zionist lobby in the US. I can't believe that ANYONE would choose to live there or visit, which is what I always felt about apartheid South Africa. The Palestinians were driven from their ancestral lands into camps in 1948 to clear the way for the new Jewish state. They're still there which means that many of them have never known anything else. The Arabs were regarded as somewhat 'sub human' by the western powers so their fate was regarded as of little consequence compared with that of the Jewish settlers who had a European heritage and friends in high places (mainly in the US) behind them. The Arabs had lived on their ancestral lands for centuries while the Israelis pointed to the bible to give their cause credibility. Today, the entire conflict with the Arab world stems from this one act of bullheaded imperialism and from the west's continued support for the regime there, turning a blind eye to further seizures of Palestinian land and repeated flouting of UN security council resolutions. Iraq, Iran and other states around Israel are denied access to nuclear weapons (just look at the spurious causes of the Iraq war) whereas Israel is encouraged to build one of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenals. The Iraq war, 9/11, international Arab terrorism all have their roots in the west's singularly one-eyed approach to the situation.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 30, 2011 17:46:54 GMT
By west do you mean Britain? How can you stand to live here?
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 18:06:42 GMT
I mainly mean the States. That's where the Zionist lobby is most powerful and where Israel's support primarily comes from.
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Post by Tubes on Sept 30, 2011 18:07:08 GMT
My view is that it's THE pariah state of the Middle East, propped up by the Zionist lobby in the US. I can't believe that ANYONE would choose to live there or visit, which is what I always felt about apartheid South Africa. The Palestinians were driven from their ancestral lands into camps in 1948 to clear the way for the new Jewish state. They're still there which means that many of them have never known anything else. The Arabs were regarded as somewhat 'sub human' by the western powers so their fate was regarded as of little consequence compared with that of the Jewish settlers who had a European heritage and friends in high places (mainly in the US) behind them. The Arabs had lived on their ancestral lands for centuries while the Israelis pointed to the bible to give their cause credibility. Today, the entire conflict with the Arab world stems from this one act of bullheaded imperialism and from the west's continued support for the regime there, turning a blind eye to further seizures of Palestinian land and repeated flouting of UN security council resolutions. Iraq, Iran and other states around Israel are denied access to nuclear weapons (just look at the spurious causes of the Iraq war) whereas Israel is encouraged to build one of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenals. The Iraq war, 9/11, international Arab terrorism all have their roots in the west's singularly one-eyed approach to the situation. ah yes, it's that simple. I remember now. |
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 18:09:31 GMT
No it isn't. It's a summary of the situation. What do you want? War and bloody Peace?! ;D Isn't it even more simplistic to say you've met some Israelis who were 'great people', therefore Israel must be OK?! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 18:11:54 GMT
....and it is full of people with dodgy haircuts who have a hatred of bacon sandwiches....so they fuck off...and I am unanimous.
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 18:13:28 GMT
VERY dodgy haircuts..... |
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Post by waitingforwaddo on Sept 30, 2011 18:31:11 GMT
“I am sorry gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents.” President Harry Truman.
“The first UN General Assembly resolution—Number 194— affirming the right of Palestinians to return to their homes and property, was passed on December 11, 1948. It has been repassed no less than twenty-eight times since that first date. Whereas the moral and political right of a person to return to his place of uninterrupted residence is acknowledged everywhere, Israel has negated the possibility of return... [and] systematically and juridically made it impossible, on any grounds whatever, for the Arab Palestinian to return, be compensated for his property, or live in Israel as a citizen equal before the law with a Jewish Israeli.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”
“Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics — including its name in Arabic, Filastin — became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance...In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic...Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”
“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.” Mahatma Gandhi.
“The winter of 1949, the first winter of exile for more than seven hundred fifty thousand Palestinians, was cold and hard...Families huddled in caves, abandoned huts, or makeshift tents...Many of the starving were only miles away from their own vegetable gardens and orchards in occupied Palestine — the new state of Israel...At the end of 1949 the United Nations finally acted. It set up the United Nations Relief and Works Administration (UNRWA) to take over sixty refugee camps from voluntary agencies. It managed to keep people alive, but only barely.” “Our Roots Are Still Alive” by The Peoples Press Palestine Book Project.
“For the entire day of April 9, 1948, Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion...The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’...The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country.” Israeli author, Simha Flapan, “The Birth of Israel.”
“The main danger which Israel, as a ‘Jewish state’, poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion’s idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state.” Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years.”
“In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.
“The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state — indeed, long before — including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970’s, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on.” Noam Chomsky.
“However much one laments and even wishes somehow to atone for the loss of life and suffering visited upon innocents because of Palestinian violence, there is still the need, I think, also to say that no national movement has been so unfairly penalized, defamed, and subjected to disproportionate retaliation for its sins as has the Palestinian.
The Israeli policy of punitive counterattacks (or state terrorism) seems to be to try to kill anywhere from 50 to 100 Arabs for every Jewish fatality. The devastation of Lebanese refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, and orphanages; the summary arrests, deportations, house destructions, maimings, and torture of Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza..these, and the number of Palestinian fatalities, the scale of material loss, the physical, political and psychological deprivations, have tremendously exceeded the damage done by Palestinians to Israelis.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”
“We came to this country which was already populated by Arabs, and we are establishing a Hebrew, that is a Jewish, state here...Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages...There is not a single community in the country that did not have a former Arab population.” Israeli leader, Moshe Dayan, quoted in Benjamin Beit-“Before [the Palestinians] very eyes we are possessing the land and the villages where they, and their ancestors, have lived...We are the generation of colonizers, and without the steel helmet and the gun barrel we cannot plant a tree and build a home.” Israeli leader Moshe Dayan, quoted in Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, “Original Sins: Reflections on the History of Zionism and Israel”
“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion, quoted in “The Jewish Paradox” by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.
"The 1989 Israel High Court decision that any political party advocating full equality between Arab and Jew can be barred from fielding candidates in an election...[means] that the Israeli state is the state of the Jews...not their [the Arabs’] state.” Professor Norman Finkelstein, “Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict.”
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Post by guernseydave on Sept 30, 2011 18:37:58 GMT
The time I've spent in Israel and the time I've spent in Turkey shows me that by in large its full of normal people trying to do their best for their family's and life. Their Politics is skewed by their position as they see it as is ours. Quite often there is no easy answer to the complex shite that their politics throws up.
We as British are in no fucking postion to judge most of it as we are directly or indirectly responsible along with others for the cluster fuck of nonsense that now exists.
GD
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Post by Tubes on Sept 30, 2011 18:41:09 GMT
No it isn't. It's a summary of the situation. What do you want? War and bloody Peace?! ;D Isn't it even more simplistic to say you've met some Israelis who were 'great people', therefore Israel must be OK?! between 1880 and the start of the second world war, nearly half a million Jewish people had emigrated to British ruled Palestine to escape persecution in Europe and Russia. During this period, the British attempted many times to solve the problem (see the Peel Commission, Woodhouse Commission) suggesting many the creation of Jewish and Arab states (with the Arab state being much larger), every time being opposed by the Arabs (and occasionally the Jews). After further migration during and in the aftermath of WWII, the UN proposed a partition plan for Palestine, a meeting which the Arab delegation boycotted refusing to take part in any discussion. While the plan was accepted the the Jews, it was rejected by the Arabs. When the British finally withdrew from Palestine, the Jews declared an independent state with regards to the UN agreed partition plan. The Arab league then invaded, the Israelis fought back and eventually established Israel. During this war, the British tried to impose an arms embargo on the region (that was ignored by many other countries, including the Czechs who supplied the Israelis) Not quite the West slicing up chunks of the middle east is it? |
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