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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 6, 2011 11:31:37 GMT
Look at Middlesbrough and Sunderland.
When they were first promoted, they each caught Premier League fever and were selling out every week, so they expanded the ground. Then they expanded it again. The net result is that both clubs now have half empty stadia that they very, very rarely completely fill. Look at Middlesbrough, their stadium looks ridiculous now and looked ridiculous in the Premier League. There may temporarily be a bit of demand for more tickets at the minute, but I doubt we'd sell out every week and the extra interest would soon tail off unless ticket prices stayed very low and we were challenging for the league title every season.
There is probably an argument for filling in one corner, although in an attempt to make our ground less generic, I'd prefer we tried something a bit different - a 2000 seat extension to the Boothen End so that it's one massive tier would be good.
A bigger priority should be finding a better place to put the away supporters or the tunnel.
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Post by BoothenenderGaz on Jun 6, 2011 11:33:09 GMT
Afternoon folks
Just so people know - I was asked for my own personal opinion on filling in the corners. It is quite easily open to mis-interpretation with a headline like that
If Bryan was asked in the manner I was, then we were asked for our own personal opinions. The issue, as demonstrated on here, was always going to split fans down the middle
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Post by foster on Jun 6, 2011 11:53:24 GMT
Look at Middlesbrough and Sunderland. When they were first promoted, they each caught Premier League fever and were selling out every week, so they expanded the ground. Then they expanded it again. The net result is that both clubs now have half empty stadia that they very, very rarely completely fill. Look at Middlesbrough, their stadium looks ridiculous now and looked ridiculous in the Premier League. There may temporarily be a bit of demand for more tickets at the minute, but I doubt we'd sell out every week and the extra interest would soon tail off unless ticket prices stayed very low and we were challenging for the league title every season. There is probably an argument for filling in one corner, although in an attempt to make our ground less generic, I'd prefer we tried something a bit different - a 2000 seat extension to the Boothen End so that it's one massive tier would be good. A bigger priority should be finding a better place to put the away supporters or the tunnel. I don't think that we should be looking at the 'what ifs' of championship football. If we go down then our attendances will drop to 13-15k and whether our capacity is 27.5k or 30k won't matter. The same situation would apply to the vast majorty of clubs if they get relegated. I'm impartial as to how they expand, but i don't think a more appropriate time has come before now to do so. The cost isn't going to have a massive impact on the club and why not be prepared just in case. It's not going to do us any harm.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 6, 2011 11:54:59 GMT
Totally agree with Sheikh. A pretty transparent attempt by the club to influence public opinion by conniving with the local media to float this story. Shame on the Sentinel for going along with it. Poor journalism and a laughable attempt at 'backdoor' PR by Stoke. This sort of approach has been out of date for 20 years. If the club can't afford (or doesn't want to) fill in the corners then it should just come out and say so, rather than teaming up with the local newspaper to insult the intelligence of fans. So it's the open corners and wind which helps to win Premiership points. Oh, come on, just how stupid do they think we are? There was I thinking it was all to do with the quality of our players and Tony Pulis's tactical nous. What an idiot I've been. Why not, in fact, demolish the one filled-in corner we do have and open up the stadium a little bit more to win even more points next season? One last point - are the fans' representatives putting forward their own views, or those of the people they represent? It really ought to be the latter. This is an excellent post. For me there's two issues here, the obvious one being, should a corner be filled in at the Brit? Reading through this thread, I can see decent arguments on both sides. However the second issue, is another awful example of PR from the club, which completely insults the intelligence of it's patrons. This sort of stuff, has been creeping in more and more over recent seasons and as the OP has correctly pointed out, it's the sort of approach that has been out of date for twenty years.
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Post by A-teen_six_T3 on Jun 6, 2011 11:55:34 GMT
Agree with WD the stoke.are in thenprem novilty has wore off and the majority of people dont seem interested... Mayve the trip to wembley last season might have re enlighted a few fires but i very much doubt it.. I think 10% of the cities population is probably max turn out...when you consider we are one of few (and the smallest) city with two teams its not a bad effort. We are never goin take away the already glory hunting fans that the 90s created - we forever going to get for the next 10years at least kids at school sayin "i;well my dad was a united fan" As far as I'm aware the population of the North Staffs conurbation is around 425k, so if you're looking at 10% of that (which I personally think is a bit ambitious) it's well over the current capacity. That's without taking into account exiles and away fans. I've always thought that the Brit was built with a view to increasing the capacity some day should the need arise? If it's not going to happen now then when? i was going for the population of stoke on trent being 250 thousand ish
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 6, 2011 11:57:02 GMT
Afternoon folks Just so people know - I was asked for my own personal opinion on filling in the corners. It is quite easily open to mis-interpretation with a headline like that If Bryan was asked in the manner I was, then we were asked for our own personal opinions. The issue, as demonstrated on here, was always going to split fans down the middle Are you going to take it up with the Club and the Newspaper? They've purposely tucked you up like a kipper and have potentially damaged your standing with your members.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 6, 2011 12:07:41 GMT
As far as I'm aware the population of the North Staffs conurbation is around 425k, so if you're looking at 10% of that (which I personally think is a bit ambitious) it's well over the current capacity. That's without taking into account exiles and away fans. I've always thought that the Brit was built with a view to increasing the capacity some day should the need arise? If it's not going to happen now then when? i was going for the population of stoke on trent being 250 thousand ish Using the population of the city of Stoke-on-Trent to argue the case doesn't make much sense. Newcastle and other neighbouring areas provide their fair share of supporters. The catchment area for Stoke City is usually given as between 400k and 500k to which should be added, as stated earlier, the thousands of exiles like myself who attend matches on a regular or intermittent basis from all over the place.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 12:12:56 GMT
Fucking hell, talk about storm in a tea cup.
If Coates doesn't want to put the cash in to expand the stadium right now, thats his perrogative.
Who gives a fuck? Probably poor journalism rather than a great big conspiracy.
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Post by brollachan on Jun 6, 2011 12:26:40 GMT
There's no suggestion of any conspiracy. But the suggestion that the corners of the stadium should be left open because they help win points in the Premiership is laughable. And offering it as a supporting argument for the club's decision is ridiculous.
If it is a 'storm in a teacup' then it has been brewed by the club and the local media.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 12:33:26 GMT
There's no suggestion of any conspiracy. But the suggestion that the corners of the stadium should be left open because they help win points in the Premiership is laughable. And offering it as a supporting argument for the club's decision is ridiculous. If it is a 'storm in a teacup' then it has been brewed by the club and the local media. Like I say, just a bit of shit journalism. I won't be chaining myself to any gates or losing any sleep over it.
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Post by RINGO STARR on Jun 6, 2011 12:42:55 GMT
Speculate to accumulate is the qoute that springs to mind. The cost of £3m would be recouped by extra ticket sales in due course.
The argument here should not be with the financial implications but whether we have actually have the additional 3 or so thousand extra supporters who want to attend Stoke City matches every other week. There will always be the demand for tickets against the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelski but not for the games against Norwich, Fulham and Wigan.
My opinion is that we're doing the right thing at this moment in our progression as a football club. The club will have a clear understanding on what the demand has been in the last 18 months for 'surplus' tickets and they probably don't see that figure being anywhere near the 3,000 mark needed to fill a corner in.
Lets see how many tickets are left over when we're in the early stages of the league cup or Europa league and then we can have the debate over whether the time is right to fill in the corners.
If we're still having attendances around the 18,000 mark for these fixtures (as per the Cardiff FA cup game this season) then its obvious that theres not a huge demand for tickets for the 'non-glamour' fixtures.
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Post by kitkatkev on Jun 6, 2011 13:22:20 GMT
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Post by herkbloke on Jun 6, 2011 13:41:22 GMT
Unless we're planning a new stadium (unlikely but not without possibility) then the business case has to be surely to increase capacity. For the 1st time in yonks, we're in a good place and now's the time to start dragging the next generation of stokies thru them gates. Hell, I'd even put up with Jap tourists and new glory hunters if it increased the revenue and to put it sadly, the "branding" of our club. It's a money driven game these days and sometimes difficult descisions need be made for the long term security of the club. FWIW, I think Brazil have pitched their intended increase bout right where the Dingles strike me as somewhat optomistic to say the least. Can we also get that joke of a tannoy system sorted n'all.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 6, 2011 16:01:40 GMT
Look at Middlesbrough and Sunderland. When they were first promoted, they each caught Premier League fever and were selling out every week, so they expanded the ground. Then they expanded it again. The net result is that both clubs now have half empty stadia that they very, very rarely completely fill. Look at Middlesbrough, their stadium looks ridiculous now and looked ridiculous in the Premier League. There may temporarily be a bit of demand for more tickets at the minute, but I doubt we'd sell out every week and the extra interest would soon tail off unless ticket prices stayed very low and we were challenging for the league title every season. There is probably an argument for filling in one corner, although in an attempt to make our ground less generic, I'd prefer we tried something a bit different - a 2000 seat extension to the Boothen End so that it's one massive tier would be good. A bigger priority should be finding a better place to put the away supporters or the tunnel. I don't think that we should be looking at the 'what ifs' of championship football. If we go down then our attendances will drop to 13-15k and whether our capacity is 27.5k or 30k won't matter. The same situation would apply to the vast majorty of clubs if they get relegated. I'm impartial as to how they expand, but i don't think a more appropriate time has come before now to do so. The cost isn't going to have a massive impact on the club and why not be prepared just in case. It's not going to do us any harm. I'm not even talking about Championship football. If we stay in the Premier League for another ten years, unless we're regularly pushing in and around the Europa League spots and making constant progress with low ticket prices, attendances will decline. Middlesbrough's ground looked stupid for their last few years in the top flight, before they even looked like being relegated.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 6, 2011 16:02:50 GMT
The seats could easily be filled most weeks with more imaginitive, less abusive, match day pricing. Its a decision that could easily be seen as displaying a lack of ambition. i agree i wouldnt let ST holders have seats in the corners. use them competively priced to entice the casual fan and next generation of supporters interested
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 16:14:29 GMT
I wonder who they consulted ?
I can see the logic in holding this back for another 12 months - but, leave it any longer and all it will do is exhibit a lack of ambition by our club
yes it will rarely be filled but for those bigger games a 30k stadium is needed already
for - its now inevitable that if we are serious about the premiership and moving forwards off the pitch as well as on, ground capacity will need to increase - say to 30k as a next logical step
and the stuff about a cold intimidating atmosphere with open corners well , thats just absolute bollocks born of apologist people trying to justify no change
Imagine another 3 -6000 more stokies baying at the opposition than there is right now
I AGREE - its a matter of timing - and another 12 months is the max this should now wait (IMHO)
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Post by desman2 on Jun 6, 2011 16:27:11 GMT
What they should do with any extra seats in a corner is use them as some said for future supporters. Get a sponsor for it and get new kids in to games. Create a price that will make it attractive to families and then use the sentinel to promote it .
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Post by StokieSC on Jun 6, 2011 16:45:54 GMT
"Leading fans"
Why does that wind me fucking up?
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Post by foster on Jun 6, 2011 16:46:53 GMT
"Leading fans" Why does that wind me fucking up? Didn't you get a vote?
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Post by owdestokie on Jun 6, 2011 16:47:02 GMT
Just a personal opinion......I would like the corners filled in, but hey what a shit design in the 1st place. IMHO we should have had a 28,000 corners filled in stadium when it was built and thats not a lack of ambition. Have a look at the highest average gates since 1961/2 (when I started supporting SCFC).
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Post by mark71 on Jun 6, 2011 17:25:13 GMT
As has been said above if the club had come out and said we are not filling in the corner for at least another 12 months because of xyz then so be it but the hashed piece of journalism from Spinks is bound to rub people up the wrong way.
If the cold harsh conditions of the Britannia are so important to our Premiership survival why did the club try to get planning permission to erect a wind break between the West stand and Boothen end?
I have a mate at work who with his wife and 2 kids have got season tickets in the family stand. his youngest son has now passed the age where they can be allowed into the family stand. When they went down to relocate their season tickets the only place they could get 4 tickets together was on the front row of the lower tier close to the Boothen end. He's not very happy that where he is now sitting will result in him getting piss wet through every time it rains, he was hoping the East / south corner would of been filled this year so they could all relocate there next year.
I saw him this afternoon and he said that he might give his season tickets up if there is no where else for him to sit.
So by not extending the ground we might see attendances reducing. I really cant see why we haven't said that we are going to fill in the corner. When the figures are put down £3m is nothing compared to the money we turn over and nothing to what we will lose if we don't retain or extend our supporter base.
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 6, 2011 17:46:54 GMT
I had the misfortune to watch the Wigan game from near to the front and end of block 16. Middle of May and it was wet cold and miserable. If they are the only tickets available next time I'll watch the game in the pub.
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Macko
Youth Player
Posts: 467
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Post by Macko on Jun 6, 2011 17:53:20 GMT
It's a farce not to be extending the ground. A simple historical check on the availability of seats before most home games would show that finding two together was nigh on impossible, unless you wanted to sit in the front row or far corner of a stand. It has become extremely difficult for an an exile to buy 2 tickets together for a home game, and this decision is extremely short sighted. The press article is a complete farce as well.
Duncan
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Post by lythampotter on Jun 6, 2011 17:58:17 GMT
If we had beaten Wigan we would have made the £3million needed to fill a corner in
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shiffa
Youth Player
Posts: 482
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Post by shiffa on Jun 6, 2011 18:03:56 GMT
If we dont fill in the corner we should atleast make a stand taller
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Post by parttimelurker on Jun 6, 2011 18:11:54 GMT
It's Coates' decision as far as I'm concerned - it's his 3 million quid that we're spending here. If the numbers don't convince him then fair enough.
The story however is total shite and actually quite insulting.
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Post by draytonstokie58 on Jun 6, 2011 18:15:22 GMT
So what happens if we top the prem...or get into the champions league? 30...40...50,000.
Not possible..................or is it??
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clan2
Youth Player
Posts: 484
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Post by clan2 on Jun 6, 2011 18:27:06 GMT
Very poor decision Why not fill the corner in where the big screen is positioned and the away fans can be accommodated there instead of been right next to the players tunnel ? I know this will never even be considered by the powers that be as moving the big screen to the other 2 corners available would mean that the important corporate customers would not be able to view the screen. Personally I think the Brit is the worst ground in design that there is is the Premier League. A Premiership team needs a Premiership Stadium not immediately granted but one would think after 3 seasons progress would be a high priority.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Jun 6, 2011 18:48:01 GMT
I like most thought this year in the 3 year plan would be the one where we said. OK lets fill the corner in. I think though that with missing out on the top 10 money and having to upgrade for Europe that again being a "non-essential" it has been put on the back burner.
Like many have said filling in the one corner between the south stand and the East stand considering the foundations are already there, the stands are the same height. It seems like a total no brainer. We have Europe coming up so may have increased attendances, we are again selling more season tickets than ever and are pushing hard to increase our fan base as stated by Tony Scholes.
Clubs like Man City, Arsenal and West Ham have all recognised the idea that having 21st century top notch stadium is a massive strength for the football club as a whole for increased revenue streams and improving the stature of a club to fans and incoming players. Also from a financial point physically having something to show for an investment and being able to reap the financial rewards is always a plus.
2500 multiplied by each fan paying £400 for a season ticket = £1,000,000 add to the fact the increased income from food/drink sales, programs, betting, match day club shop spending. Should mean it could be paid off in 3 years? Or am I looking at it too simplistically.
If we would be unable to sell an extra 2.5K seats then we dont want empty seats do we? Ok easy solution to this. Tony Scholes has come out and said he wants to increase the younger fanbase year on year. Well why not rename the corner "Community Corner" and any empty seats should be put into pairs and placed in a raffle and be given to a local school for them to use each week. We dont have empty seats, we make money by them buying food, drink, shirts and we get lifetime revenue from making some new stoke fans.
I dont have a season ticket by generally go 15/20 games a season both home and away. I prefer away games sometimes for the atmosphere, travelling and due to not having to seperate from friends for bigger home games as getting seats together is often near impossible (or they are in a place I wouldnt want to sit) and this could help to alleviate that problem for myself and others.
It just seems odd to try and influence people like this with the Sentinel but perhaps from a business side if its not essential right now and considering we might of missed out on money we thought we had then for a club of our size and with our generally well run bank account this is just a no go for now and id respect that decision as money could be better spent elsewhere.
However from my basic outlook and maths it seems a no brainer, but we might slip down the league without our precious wind and cold?!
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Post by rigsby on Jun 6, 2011 18:49:24 GMT
So what happens if we top the prem...or get into the champions league? 30...40...50,000. Not possible..................or is it?? Top the Prem? Get into the Champions League? Blimey, i'll have what you're smoking, and then some.
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