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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 9:32:18 GMT
Despite the obvious there are also many fringe benefits, not least aesthetics, acoustics and the chance to right the biggest fuck up of the lot and fuck away supporters off from around the tunnel area. I agree with all that. I still think the financial element outweighs it though. I'd love to see The Brit with all the corners filled in, or an extra corner filled in. It'd look better and on the big match days we'd have a few extra thousand crammed in to create better atmosphere's. You just know for the WBA, Wigan, Norwich, QPR etc games we'd have around 3 thousand+ empty seats.
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Post by stokedrich on Jun 6, 2011 9:33:43 GMT
No Brainer - only filled the ground twice last year so 27k seems to be where we are at in terms of a regular attendance figure for the premier league. Spend a million on getting the place up to UEFA standards then throw some money at better players that what we currently have. Simples
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 9:35:19 GMT
We've been in the league 3 seasons, each season better than the one before. You'd think if the fan base was going to increase it would do so in relation to increased success. It could be argued that the demand (for the majority of matches) has actually dropped off slightly. Season ticket sales have increased each year and i expect the same again for next season. Maybe demand has dropped off for the leftover places because there's less availability of seats together. Every season in the PL is a measure of continued success and if you don't increase the capacity then you'll never know what sort of crowds you'll be able to attract. The average attendance this season has fallen off from last season (by over 300). That surely is the biggest indicator you need to show the need isn't there to expand just yet.
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 6, 2011 9:35:21 GMT
Because I work 2 Saturdays in 4 I haven't got a season ticket and for games I can make, I buy on line. I usually go with one or two of my kids and have to settle for the worst possible seats just to get two or three together. 2 - 3,000 extra seats would certainly give non-season ticket holders more chance to watch the 'glamour' games and improve the match day experience for non glamour games.
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Post by brollachan on Jun 6, 2011 9:37:56 GMT
Totally agree with Sheikh. A pretty transparent attempt by the club to influence public opinion by conniving with the local media to float this story.
Shame on the Sentinel for going along with it.
Poor journalism and a laughable attempt at 'backdoor' PR by Stoke. This sort of approach has been out of date for 20 years.
If the club can't afford (or doesn't want to) fill in the corners then it should just come out and say so, rather than teaming up with the local newspaper to insult the intelligence of fans.
So it's the open corners and wind which helps to win Premiership points. Oh, come on, just how stupid do they think we are? There was I thinking it was all to do with the quality of our players and Tony Pulis's tactical nous. What an idiot I've been. Why not, in fact, demolish the one filled-in corner we do have and open up the stadium a little bit more to win even more points next season?
One last point - are the fans' representatives putting forward their own views, or those of the people they represent? It really ought to be the latter.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 6, 2011 9:38:09 GMT
Season ticket sales have increased each year and i expect the same again for next season. Maybe demand has dropped off for the leftover places because there's less availability of seats together. Every season in the PL is a measure of continued success and if you don't increase the capacity then you'll never know what sort of crowds you'll be able to attract. The average attendance this season has fallen off from last season (by over 300). That surely is the biggest indicator you need to show the need isn't there to expand just yet. I'd like to see how that breaks down, in terms of home and away attendance. We have had some awful away followings this year. I think if it was easier to get decent tickets, in groups of 2 or 3, rather than a scramble for tickets on general sale, there's still reasonable scope for growth.
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Post by frasier45 on Jun 6, 2011 9:40:01 GMT
Isn't the reason more like they dare not join them up?
Because of the fcuk up of building location?
I don't know.......just a guess like
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 9:41:53 GMT
If the club can't afford (or doesn't want to) fill in the corners then it should just come out and say so, rather than teaming up with the local newspaper to insult the intelligence of fans. Coates has thrown his cash at the club for whatever we've needed or Tone has asked for. Since the promotion year the money has been there. We've spent big on wages, transfer fees, training facilities etc year on year so you can't say this is a decision based on Coates not wanting to part with his money. I'm sure he's done his research (more than most on here) and made a business decision. End of.
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Post by foster on Jun 6, 2011 9:44:05 GMT
No Brainer - only filled the ground twice last year so 27k seems to be where we are at in terms of a regular attendance figure for the premier league. Spend a million on getting the place up to UEFA standards then throw some money at better players that what we currently have. Simples 3m or 2m (minus the refurb) doesn't go far on player sales. Nearly covers KJs wages for a season though. The corner wouldn't be ready for another seaon either, so that would give the club 12 months to come up with ways to get more prospective or real fans to the ground. I can understand that maybe now we don't sell out every game but we can't keep thinking short term and 2.5k extra capacity and 3m spending is hardly going to cripple the club is it. I think that had we finished higher in the table and got that additional revenue that we would have expanded. I think PCs got a budget that we wants to stick to (fair enough) and that he's prioritising the team. I suppose what pinches a bit about this is that an expansion of the Brit was sort of expected, as part of this 3 year plan and big changes that a lot of fans were/are expecting. Anyway, no point debating this now is there. The decision's been made.
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Jun 6, 2011 9:44:52 GMT
I would like the corners filled in, but £3 million on a player or some more seats, tricky one.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 6, 2011 9:45:45 GMT
We've been in the league 3 seasons, each season better than the one before. You'd think if the fan base was going to increase it would do so in relation to increased success. It could be argued that the demand (for the majority of matches) has actually dropped off slightly. Season ticket sales have increased each year and i expect the same again for next season. Maybe demand has dropped off for the leftover places because there's less availability of seats together. Every season in the PL is a measure of continued success and if you don't increase the capacity then you'll never know what sort of crowds you'll be able to attract. I think this post probably hits the nail on the head. The easiest way to grow the fan base is for existing fans to bring friends and family along to games to, hopefully, get them "hooked". The Brit may not sell out for all games at the moment but it gets full enough for most games (and certainly for the most attractive games) to make it a hassle for people thinking of bringing a guest or two, or three, along to the game. The current situation also prevents the sort of club initiative we used in the past such as "kids for a quid" or "bring a friend for a fiver". I'd have thought that increasing the capacity by between 1,800 and 3000 by filling in a corner would be the ideal way for the club to try to grow the fan base. I accept that it would have a significant cost - £3 million according to this article - although I did hear Peter Coates say it would cost £3.8 million. But, significant though those figures are, they are not dramatic compared to our annual turnover of about £60 million and an extra corner, even when filled with "special offer" tickets would increase merchandising sales and hopefully, build on the season ticket base in the future. I hope the club give it a go next summer.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 6, 2011 9:48:56 GMT
I think you've nailed it there, Forny.
When you think we've splashed out probably around £15m (inc wages) on Tonge, Soares, Arismendi and Davies - and will not see a penny back on any of them, £3m on this with the knowledge that it will ultimately deliver a profit, seems a fairly straightforward decision.
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Post by brollachan on Jun 6, 2011 9:51:13 GMT
Agree with Fornside.
We've just reached an FA Cup final and we are in Europe for the first time in nearly 40 years.
What better time to try and further increase our fan base?
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Post by ladyinred on Jun 6, 2011 9:52:19 GMT
How about puting in some temporary seats like at Wolves. Would need to hand out free ponchos though and price tickets much lower (I wouldn't fancy sitting in there!) Could maybe ony open up sales to this area when less than 500 seats available in current stands. Other than that, use it for freebies etc. I don't suppose we could get away with hoiusing away fans in an uncovered temporary corner stand!
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Post by george2again on Jun 6, 2011 9:53:45 GMT
Sorry but we have a Premier league team and Champ stadium at the moment. Britt has been left behind and needs all corners filled in. Ok so its not ecomomic to do so but with the FA cup money we werent supposed to get wheres the loss?
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Post by elystokie on Jun 6, 2011 9:56:30 GMT
Agree with WD the stoke.are in thenprem novilty has wore off and the majority of people dont seem interested... Mayve the trip to wembley last season might have re enlighted a few fires but i very much doubt it.. I think 10% of the cities population is probably max turn out...when you consider we are one of few (and the smallest) city with two teams its not a bad effort. We are never goin take away the already glory hunting fans that the 90s created - we forever going to get for the next 10years at least kids at school sayin "well my dad was a united fan" As far as I'm aware the population of the North Staffs conurbation is around 425k, so if you're looking at 10% of that (which I personally think is a bit ambitious) it's well over the current capacity. That's without taking into account exiles and away fans. I've always thought that the Brit was built with a view to increasing the capacity some day should the need arise? If it's not going to happen now then when?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 9:58:34 GMT
Sorry but we have a Premier league team and Champ stadium at the moment. Britt has been left behind and needs all corners filled in. Ok so its not ecomomic to do so but with the FA cup money we werent supposed to get wheres the loss? So you think we should spend 10Mill+ filling the corners in, add 10,000+ to the capacity and have a shit load of empty seats most weeks? It'd take years to recoup that outlay. Plus as a result, we'd have less to spend on the actual squad at a time when we probably need all available resources (i.e. bigger squad required now we're in Europe). It's times like these I'm glad we have a guy in charge with a proper business head on his shoulders.
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Jun 6, 2011 10:02:29 GMT
Sorry but we have a Premier league team and Champ stadium at the moment. Britt has been left behind and needs all corners filled in. Ok so its not ecomomic to do so but with the FA cup money we werent supposed to get wheres the loss? So you think we should spend 10Mill+ filling the corners in, add 10,000+ to the capacity and have a shit load of empty seats most weeks? It'd take years to recoup that outlay. Plus as a result, we'd have less to spend on the actual squad at a time when we probably need all available resources (i.e. bigger squad required now we're in Europe). It's times like these I'm glad we have a guy in charge with a proper business head on his shoulders. I couldn't agree more. People on here keep coming up with financial figures but has anyone actually seen the accounts for the season just gone by? If we did turn over £60m, what profit did it result in? In Coates we must (and rightly so) trust
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Post by foster on Jun 6, 2011 10:04:51 GMT
Not sure about this, just speculating and it''s a very simply forecast based on season ticket sales.
Let's say that each season we've increased our season ticket sales by 1k and that this season we sold 22k of a total 25k available.
2011/2012 season we sell 23k 2012/2013 season we sell 24k...
If we don't expand now then that leaves us with virtually no seats available for fans that aren't season ticket holders until at least the 2013/2014 season.
If we do start expanding now, the additional 2.5k will be available only from 2012/2013 when our season ticket sales will likely reach 24k and when we need the extra capacity.
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Post by foster on Jun 6, 2011 10:07:08 GMT
Sorry but we have a Premier league team and Champ stadium at the moment. Britt has been left behind and needs all corners filled in. Ok so its not ecomomic to do so but with the FA cup money we werent supposed to get wheres the loss? So you think we should spend 10Mill+ filling the corners in, add 10,000+ to the capacity and have a shit load of empty seats most weeks? It'd take years to recoup that outlay. Plus as a result, we'd have less to spend on the actual squad at a time when we probably need all available resources (i.e. bigger squad required now we're in Europe). It's times like these I'm glad we have a guy in charge with a proper business head on his shoulders. We're talking about a single corner for 3m, to add 2.5k capacity. You know what he meant.
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Jun 6, 2011 10:08:01 GMT
It's a good job PC could see the bigger picture in 1996 when agreeing the plans for the Brit, as we were averaging around 12k then so judging by some peoples opinion we should have built a stadium with a capacity of around 15k!!
Short sighted in the least, get them damn corners filled in pronto!
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Post by sufolkstokie on Jun 6, 2011 10:14:38 GMT
Coates family have stated several times they want the club to become self sustaining in the not too distance future. If the extra capacity would provide a return on investment then no doubt they would as a business do that. It would be appear otherwise and they are the ones with the information.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jun 6, 2011 10:18:24 GMT
Totally agree with Sheikh. A pretty transparent attempt by the club to influence public opinion by conniving with the local media to float this story. Shame on the Sentinel for going along with it. Poor journalism and a laughable attempt at 'backdoor' PR by Stoke. This sort of approach has been out of date for 20 years. If the club can't afford (or doesn't want to) fill in the corners then it should just come out and say so, rather than teaming up with the local newspaper to insult the intelligence of fans. So it's the open corners and wind which helps to win Premiership points. Oh, come on, just how stupid do they think we are? There was I thinking it was all to do with the quality of our players and Tony Pulis's tactical nous. What an idiot I've been. Why not, in fact, demolish the one filled-in corner we do have and open up the stadium a little bit more to win even more points next season? One last point - are the fans' representatives putting forward their own views, or those of the people they represent? It really ought to be the latter. This is correct in every point. Sledgehammer news management over a decision the club has takern. I am prepared to accept that there are arguments both ways, but unless they are aired in a transparent way, people inevitably react negatively and with suspicion. For what it's worth - and without knowing the economics - I would support (moderate in the first instance) expansion. Two or three thousand empty seats for (some) games would be a risk worth taking. The benefits seem to me to outweigh the risks. But for me this highlights a wider issue. What I would be really interested to understand better is the extent to which the supporters' club and the FSF do in fact participate in anything like a debate with the club - and how they canvass the views that they purport to represent. This includes (but is not restricted to) the great corner-filling conundrum.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 10:24:05 GMT
Lets not forget the club are already spending 1 Million on refurbs at the ground during the close season.
I'm sure if it was the right thing to do then Coates would back it and finance it.
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Post by evans1863 on Jun 6, 2011 10:53:06 GMT
Good call. We aren't yet ready for this sort of expansion.
Give it a couple of years or so and with the same progression we'll be able to justify the extra seats. For the time being would you rather empty seats or a new player?
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Post by sealion1 on Jun 6, 2011 10:58:29 GMT
well said, Foster.... i didn't have a season ticket last year due to working shifts, however i often found it very difficult to get two seats together when going games,think this is very short sighted!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 11:03:59 GMT
That is a great picture of our ground. IMO we should leave the scoreboard corner open and rebuild the boothen end, maybe have a 10k or so capacity huge 1 tier end that curves round towards the john smiths.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 6, 2011 11:08:08 GMT
That is a great picture of our ground. IMO we should leave the scoreboard corner open and rebuild the boothen end, maybe have a 10k or so capacity huge 1 tier end that curves round towards the john smiths. The big screen corner is MUCH cheaper to build as it already has the footings in place - they were put in when the stadium was built. I think it very likely that, if/when, the first corner is built it will be that corner - even though I personally would quite like the John Smith's/Boothen corner to be the first with the tunnel/changing rooms etc. being moved to that end.
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Post by Bognor Stokie on Jun 6, 2011 11:13:49 GMT
Can't see why the club don't finally enclose the pitch to complete the stadium - as they have done at Brighton's new lower capacity ground at Falmer (22,500) That wouldn't cost £3m per corner and seats can then be added in stages as the ticket sales justify it and it allows the club the flexibility to use it for anything - secure storage / big screen, or fan segregation (whatever) in the meantime.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jun 6, 2011 11:21:26 GMT
I haven't even got anecdotal evidence to support this - but there's a perception the kids in the area are coming back into the Stoke fold,as we become a more attractive non glory-hunting option. And there's nowhere for them to sit at the Brit, as there are often just single seats dotted about the ground for general sale. Just filling one corner, adding 2500 seats for about 3m ,would do the trick and give a bit of leeway for new attendees to catch the Stoke bug Thats it in a nutshell. There are definetley would be supporters who would attend for some games who dont because of the point made above. You dont have to fill every new seat every game to pay back in very short order and it gives the opportunity to again grow the supporter base. We are at the tipping point in terms of the current stadium size. The idea that we beat visiting teams only because it is cold and windy made me laugh!
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