|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:19:04 GMT
You've answered your own question. The standings right now count for nothing. Come back in May. WD They count for more than the respective finishes of 2 teams who no longer exist. A hell of a lot more. Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 22, 2010 10:22:25 GMT
What our two finishes ahead of Sunderland in our first ever seasons in the prem prove if anything is the gash jobs done by Keane and Bruce thus far.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:23:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sirpineapple89 on Dec 22, 2010 10:23:58 GMT
Haven't Blunderland been above us at Christmas for the past two seasons? They definitely were in the 2008/2009 season. Based on this, it's a pretty poor idea to start giving it the big 'un about how good you are at the moment.
As WD says, we'll see in May.*
*Where I fully expect Sunderland to be above us ;D
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 10:24:48 GMT
They count for more than the respective finishes of 2 teams who no longer exist. A hell of a lot more. Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December. You sir, are a complete berk. The extremely valid point that the Captain is trying to make, is that Stoke finishing above us in the past two seasons is irrelevant to where the teams are now, seeing as both teams are vastly changed and ours is almost unrecognisable. Why hold the likes of Henderson, Gyan, Mohammady, Wellbeck, Onuoha and Bramble responsible for how shit the likes of Dean Whitehead and Danny Collins were for us two years ago? Bruce has spent his 18 months in charge building an almost completely new side. What has the huge underachievement of other Sunderland players over the past two years got to do with the current team?
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 10:26:15 GMT
What our two finishes ahead of Sunderland in our first ever seasons in the prem prove if anything is the gash jobs done by Keane and Bruce thus far. That's spot on re Keane but very harsh on Bruce - since Bruce took over we've always steadily improved, and continue to do so. He had a lot of shite to get rid of and replace when he took over last year.
|
|
|
Post by sirpineapple89 on Dec 22, 2010 10:26:42 GMT
Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December. You sir, are a complete berk. The extremely valid point that the Captain is trying to make, is that Stoke finishing above us in the past two seasons is irrelevant to where the teams are now, seeing as both teams are vastly changed and ours is almost unrecognisable. Why hold the likes of Henderson, Gyan, Mohammady, Wellbeck, Onuoha and Bramble responsible for how shit the likes of Dean Whitehead and Danny Collins were for us two years ago? Bruce has spent his 18 months in charge building an almost completely new side. What has the huge underachievement of other Sunderland players over the past two years got to do with the current team? ;D ;D ;D ;D Superb stuff. Let's not the let the facts get in the way though, eh? They don't really matter.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:27:06 GMT
Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December. You sir, are a complete berk. The extremely valid point that the Captain is trying to make, is that Stoke finishing above us in the past two seasons is irrelevant to where the teams are now, 4eeing as both teams are vastly changed and ours is almost unrecognisable. And where the teams are now is completely irrelevant also. Again, like Captain, you answer your own point. Come back in May kid. WD
|
|
|
Post by captainfishpaste on Dec 22, 2010 10:28:52 GMT
They count for more than the respective finishes of 2 teams who no longer exist. A hell of a lot more. Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December. You've changed your tune. A while ago the fact the team you no longer have finished above the one we no longer have was "evidence" that the current Stoke team is slightly better than the current Sunderland one. Which is it? Meaningful evidence which proves your point or something that counts for nothing and thusly disproves mine?
|
|
|
Post by bobleejumper10 on Dec 22, 2010 10:28:57 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:32:00 GMT
Both count for nothing. Unless they start ending the season in December. You've changed your tune. A while ago the fact the team you no longer have finished above the one we no longer have was "evidence" that the current Stoke team is slightly better than the current Sunderland one. Which is it? Meaningful evidence which proves your point or something that counts for nothing and thusly disproves mine? I'm not sure which bit you are struggling with? * We finished above you 2 seasons ago - Stoke the better team * We finished above you last season - Stoke the better team * We're not even at the halfway point this season and you are above us, when we reach May we will see the true picture - the jury is out So, to summarise, we have been the better team in recent seasons, the jury is out as to whether that is still the case. Come back in May. WD
|
|
|
Post by captainfishpaste on Dec 22, 2010 10:35:09 GMT
You've changed your tune. A while ago the fact the team you no longer have finished above the one we no longer have was "evidence" that the current Stoke team is slightly better than the current Sunderland one. Which is it? Meaningful evidence which proves your point or something that counts for nothing and thusly disproves mine? I'm not sure which bit you are struggling with? * We finished above you 2 seasons ago - Stoke the better team * We finished above you last season - Stoke the better team * We're not even at the halfway point this season and you are above us, when we reach May we will see the true picture - the jury is out So, to summarise, we have been the better team in recent seasons, the jury is out as to whether that is still the case. Come back in May. WD I suppose the part I'd like clarification on is how "On the evidence of the past couple of seasons we are slightly better" has suddenly become " we have been the better team in recent seasons". Because only one of those is relevent to whether or not we could attract Shawcross, and it certainly isn't the one you are currently peddling.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 22, 2010 10:35:51 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league.[/quote Nurse! The retarded gentleman needs his medication.
|
|
|
Post by sirpineapple89 on Dec 22, 2010 10:36:17 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league. Post of the day so far. It's true what they say about people from the North East being daft cunts. I bet you're sitting there with your shirt off and your belly out even with this severely cold weather, aren't you. You're crazy you lot are.
|
|
|
Post by Stoke-on-Toronto on Dec 22, 2010 10:37:53 GMT
as if Ryan would want to go to a lesser team. The league table lying to us, like? Funny how no one here thought the league table lied when it had you above us. the season isn't over though, is it? finish above us and then talk.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:39:00 GMT
I'm not sure which bit you are struggling with? * We finished above you 2 seasons ago - Stoke the better team * We finished above you last season - Stoke the better team * We're not even at the halfway point this season and you are above us, when we reach May we will see the true picture - the jury is out So, to summarise, we have been the better team in recent seasons, the jury is out as to whether that is still the case. Come back in May. WD I suppose the part I'd like clarification on is how "On the evidence of the past couple of seasons we are slightly better" has suddenly become " we have been the better team in recent seasons". Because only one of those is relevent to whether or not we could attract Shawcross, and it certainly isn't the one you are currently peddling. * The only facts we have (i.e. End of season tables, not December tables when we are not even at the halfway point) show we have been a better team than you. These are facts, not "jump up and down, we're doing well in December" points that count for nothing. * As for this seasons teams, we will know in May who is the better team. I've never known a set of fans get so carried away by how their team is doing before they have reached the halfway point. * Shawcross would not leave Stoke to go to Sunderland. He will no doubt leave one day and it will be for a big club.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:39:52 GMT
The league table lying to us, like? Funny how no one here thought the league table lied when it had you above us. the season isn't over though, is it? finish above us and then talk. That's the bit Captain is struggling with mate
|
|
|
Post by Stoke-on-Toronto on Dec 22, 2010 10:48:03 GMT
the season isn't over though, is it? finish above us and then talk. That's the bit Captain is struggling with mate I'm not even sure if he knows what board he's on. I usually agree with the stuff he's got to say but I think we really hit a nerve and he's grasping at straws right now. Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league. Chelsea away 3-0 was fantastic! You even slaughtered Newcastle away 5-1! Oh wait...
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 10:51:08 GMT
You sir, are a complete berk. The extremely valid point that the Captain is trying to make, is that Stoke finishing above us in the past two seasons is irrelevant to where the teams are now, 4eeing as both teams are vastly changed and ours is almost unrecognisable. And where the teams are now is completely irrelevant also. Again, like Captain, you answer your own point. Come back in May kid. WD I don't quite understand where you are coming from. I assume that you would quite definitely rather be on our current points total than your own; so it logically follows that the respective points totals cannot possibly be irrelevant. If points totals at the half way point are irrelevant Wolves and West Ham fans wouldn't be twitching at the moment and managers would never be sacked mid-season.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:52:02 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league. And as Stoke fans on the Stoke MB how are we supposed to react to that? We have an excellent team, we are still developing that team. One thing you can say about Stoke, is that we have disappointed every 'expert' and critic who has written us off. We are still work in progress. Meanwhile, you have some excellent new players. I hope they last the season, I suspect that some may wear out before May. I do know that consistently our (apparently) higher levels of fitness tend to tell by the end of the season and so the relative positions now are not so telling. I don't think our manager sees us as the finished article at all. I imagine Bruce feels that same about Sunderland. We are both well financed and it is not at all fanciful that both clubs could do some good business in January and everything will change. So to take the stance that 'our team is better than yours' is puerile. Your team is your team and ours is ours. When we play against each other we each want our teams to win. When other teams play each other we might have a preference, but no one really gives a shit. The finishing positions just shows how far each has come in a continuing program of development. And if you genuinely believe that none of our players would get into your squad you really are deluded. Hint: take a look at the thread title.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:53:36 GMT
And where the teams are now is completely irrelevant also. Again, like Captain, you answer your own point. Come back in May kid. WD I don't quite understand where you are coming from then. I assume that you would quite definitely rather be on our current points total than your own; so it logically the respective points totals cannot possibly be irrelevant. If points totals at the half way point are irrelevant Wolves and West Ham fans wouldn't be twitching at the moment and managers would never be sacked mid-season. The point is, todays standings count for nothing. It's where you finish in May that counts. And on recent evidence, we are more likely to finsih above you over the course of a season. Well done though for doing well, even though we haven't reached the halfway point yet. WD
|
|
|
Post by Stoke-on-Toronto on Dec 22, 2010 10:53:55 GMT
I don't quite understand where you are coming from then. I assume that you would quite definitely rather be on our current points total than your own; so it logically the respective points totals cannot possibly be irrelevant. If points totals at the half way point are irrelevant Wolves and West Ham fans wouldn't be twitching at the moment and managers would never be sacked mid-season. Using fan paranoia and owners with itchy trigger fingers as ammo for your argument?
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 10:55:23 GMT
I don't quite understand where you are coming from then. I assume that you would quite definitely rather be on our current points total than your own; so it logically the respective points totals cannot possibly be irrelevant. If points totals at the half way point are irrelevant Wolves and West Ham fans wouldn't be twitching at the moment and managers would never be sacked mid-season. Using fan paranoia and owners with itchy trigger fingers as ammo for your argument? No, just good old common sense. Unless you're suggesting that you wouldnt rather have 27 points at the moment than 21; in which case I'm really wasting my time debating this point.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 10:57:15 GMT
Using fan paranoia and owners with itchy trigger fingers as ammo for your argument? No, just good old common sense. Unless you're suggesting that you wouldnt rather have 27 points at the moment than 21; in which case I'm really wasting my time debating this point. I’d prefer to have 27 instead of 21. I’d prefer to have 30 instead of 27. And so on and so forth. In order for you to say you are a better team than us though, you need to finish above us in May, not December. Something you have failed to do for the last 2 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by Stoke-on-Toronto on Dec 22, 2010 10:58:09 GMT
Using fan paranoia and owners with itchy trigger fingers as ammo for your argument? No, just good old common sense. Unless you're suggesting that you wouldnt rather have 27 points at the moment than 21; in which case I'm really wasting my time debating this point. Dude, your arguments are shit. Of course I would rather have 27 points but that doesn't take into account the fact that it's a MARATHON not a sprint. I don't know how many times it needs to be pounded into your thick skull: FINISH ABOVE US, THEN TALK. The fuck are you even here for?
|
|
|
Post by fortressbritannia on Dec 22, 2010 10:58:29 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league. Do Sunderland have the better players ? Yes Do Sunderland have the better team ? No You beat Chelsea well done good result but winning away at Chelsea means nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games against teams like Newcastle (Just look at our squad winning at St James park)
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 11:13:56 GMT
Stoke have finished above us twice but big deal...everyone knows thats not going to last, stoke are not a good team at all and none of your players would get in the Sunderland squad just look at us beating chelsea 3-0 away. Also having the most ammount of clean sheets in the league. Do Sunderland have the better players ? Yes Do Sunderland have the better team ? No You beat Chelsea well done good result but winning away at Chelsea means nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games against teams like Newcastle (Just look at our squad winning at St James park) No away game is "bread and butter" in this league. Like the vast majority of other sides in the division (yourselves included) we pick up the majority of our points at home. Even more so in our case as we have the second best home record in the country over the past two seasons. That is why the first half of the season has been so pleasing for us. Our second half is considerably easier than the first as we still have to play most of the poorer sides at the Stadium of Light. To describe an away game against Newcastle as "bread and butter" is disrespectful to them - seeing that they are above you in table in the moment, I take it we should regard our trip to the Britannia later in the season as even more of a "bread and butter" win? Of course not.
|
|
|
Post by nqsdiscopants on Dec 22, 2010 11:17:52 GMT
I don't quite understand where you are coming from then. I assume that you would quite definitely rather be on our current points total than your own; so it logically the respective points totals cannot possibly be irrelevant. If points totals at the half way point are irrelevant Wolves and West Ham fans wouldn't be twitching at the moment and managers would never be sacked mid-season. The point is, todays standings count for nothing. It's where you finish in May that counts. And on recent evidence, we are more likely to finsih above you over the course of a season. Well done though for doing well, even though we haven't reached the halfway point yet. WD This is the bit that I don't get - the team we have now is hugely different from either of the sides you finished above. Why is it that you would put the huge underachievements of the likes of Whitehead, Collins and Jones on the shoulders of current Sunderland players who werent even at the club during those seasons? The mind boggles.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 11:18:30 GMT
Do Sunderland have the better players ? Yes Do Sunderland have the better team ? No You beat Chelsea well done good result but winning away at Chelsea means nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games against teams like Newcastle (Just look at our squad winning at St James park) No away game is "bread and butter" in this league. Like the vast majority of other sides in the division (yourselves included) we pick up the majority of our points at home. Even more so in our case as we have the second best home record in the country over the past two seasons. That is why the first half of the season has been so pleasing for us. Our second half is considerably easier than the first as we still have to play most of the poorer sides at the Stadium of Light. To describe an away game against Newcastle as "bread and butter" is disrespectful to them - seeing that they are above you in table in the moment, I take it we should regard our trip to the Britannia later in the season as even more of a "bread and butter" win? Of course not. The point being made is, any Sunderland fan using the Chelsea result as an example of them being the "bestest" is a daft cunt. No doubting it was a great result but you can't use one result to judge how good a team is. Beat Chelsea - best team in the league Smashed by Newcastle - shittest team in the league The only accurate yardstick is the table in May.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2010 11:20:36 GMT
The point is, todays standings count for nothing. It's where you finish in May that counts. And on recent evidence, we are more likely to finsih above you over the course of a season. Well done though for doing well, even though we haven't reached the halfway point yet. WD This is the bit that I don't get - the team we have now is hugely different from either of the sides you finished above. Why is it that you would put the huge underachievements of the likes of Whitehead, Collins and Jones on the shoulders of current Sunderland players who werent even at the club during those seasons? The mind boggles. The point is, you should do your talking in May. We haven't even reached the half way point yet.
|
|