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Post by tazi on Sept 19, 2010 23:09:50 GMT
I admire tazi and people like him who simply won't ever question anything TP does. He's the man for my club without a doubt but that doesn't make him flawless. He makes mistakes like everyone else and it's no crime to point it out. Ric should play and it's lunacy to suggest otherwise. . Spot on jamo. He is a sheep though Like the other clowns who are shit scared to be critical of Pulis on something so obviously WRONG in Walters playing up with Jones when Ric HAS to start,end of topic. He's back again with his nasty little comments i see.....  |
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Post by leftsideboothen on Sept 19, 2010 23:28:53 GMT
Anyone who thinks TP is a lunatic when it comes to building football clubs is clearly deluded, I'm with you Tazi. The things that I has read about our manager tonight has amazed me. Lunatic, prick, insane. I really struggle to get my haed around it. Im all for a good old Walter vs Fuller debate but really! He has taken us from the depths of no-where to mid table premiership, has improved the squad year on year and we are playing better football with better players year on year. Anyone unhappy with this should have a chat with Charlton fans.
Steve
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Post by stokeoptimist on Sept 19, 2010 23:47:51 GMT
Is it not possible that Fuller is not fully match fit as he did not have a full pre-season has lot lots of weight and actually doesn't look as good as Walters in training?
Just a thought mind, don't let me get in the way of all your ranting!
Oh and to all the people that keep saying Fuller is the best player at the club, I can think of 8 million reasons why he isn't.
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Post by leftsideboothen on Sept 19, 2010 23:54:03 GMT
It may be that Fuller, (who is the best player at the club imo), isnt capable of 90 mins. If TP, i his wisdom, thinks that playing him for 30 mins at the end against tiring defenders ran ragged by Walter and KJ is the way to go then I'll get behind that.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2010 0:54:48 GMT
So to summarise we have a new scapegoat and everyone still thinks they know better than the guy whp has actually got us to this position - the club might be progressing but sadly it cant drag some of the 'supporters' with it. Nope just a bunch of passionate Stoke Citty supporters chatting on the internet, who all (pretty much) think that Ricardo is a better striker than Walters. I take it you disagree with them Wuzza?  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 20, 2010 1:36:14 GMT
West Ham fans and I suspect Upson too were shitting themselves at the thought of Fuller playing against them. He played for 20 minutes. One mahoosive fuck up.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 20, 2010 9:06:23 GMT
If Pennant's out on Sunday, as has been reported, you'd like to think Walters would drop in on the right, with Ric going up front.
But while the Delap on the right option is lurking, it's a cause for concern if he really does see Walters as sme kind of first-choice forward
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Post by coxeymcqueen on Sept 20, 2010 9:12:29 GMT
The more I see of Jones the more wet dreams I have of seeing a Tuncay & Jones leading the front line. Last season Tuncay would put passes in to places that our other players just wouldn't anticipate. This made Tuncs look daft but really it was our other players' lack of awareness that was the issue. Jones, I think, has the awareness that Tuncay needs in a forward partner and I think they could make each other look very, very good. Failing that, get Ric fit and I won'ty grumble at a KJ/Ric pairing either.
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coggy
Youth Player
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Post by coggy on Sept 20, 2010 9:12:39 GMT
If Pennant's out on Sunday, as has been reported, you'd like to think Walters would drop in on the right, with Ric going up front. But while the Delap on the right option is lurking, it's a cause for concern if he really does see Walters as sme kind of first-choice forward Yep ! If he won't start Ric against West Ham at home i can't see him starting him away from home and think it will be delap back on the right |
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Post by Mekaneck on Sept 20, 2010 9:13:54 GMT
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Post by coxeymcqueen on Sept 20, 2010 9:15:05 GMT
West Ham fans and I suspect Upson too were shitting themselves at the thought of Fuller playing against them. He played for 20 minutes. One mahoosive fuck up. Agreed. A problem with Jones/Walters up front together is that referees will give them very little cos they're both big players - Had Upson climbed up Ric or Tunny in the same way he climbed all over Jones, we'd have had so many more freekicks and maybe a decent penalty shout or two |
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Post by cocknepott on Sept 20, 2010 9:22:21 GMT
as an outsider i will say this - when walters was on i was comfortable, when fuller came on i was not.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 20, 2010 9:29:27 GMT
Jones is undroppable up top. Quite a lot of the rest falls into place.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2010 9:41:28 GMT
Jones is undroppable up top. Quite a lot of the rest falls into place. Thing is, if you follow tazi's logic that we HAVE to start with Walters when play with two wingers, then what happen's when Eidur's fully fit? He's certainly not going to be running around doing the dirty work in the same way. If you take tazi's argument to it's ultimate conclusion, then we're looking at a Walters/Gudjohnson partnership in the not too distant future. |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 20, 2010 9:55:15 GMT
Jones is undroppable up top. Quite a lot of the rest falls into place. Thing is, if you follow tazi's logic that we HAVE to start with Walters when play with two wingers, then what happen's when Eidur's fully fit? He's certainly not going to be running around doing the dirty work in the same way. If you take tazi's argument to it's ultimate conclusion, then we're looking at a Walters/Gudjohnson partnership in the not too distant future. I really don't know how Gudjohnson fits in at all paul. I can't see him playing in the middle. I thought jones would primarily be mama with goals and he looks like being fuller with goals (tin hat). I thought walters would be lawrence with a bit more pace and ability in the air but Walters looks like being mama with less mama. I can see tazi's logic re the two wingers and jones up to but he was started there with delap on the wing. It's baffling at the moment. Bar in injury I think jones will play 90 in both roles leaving GJ nowhere I guess. Sorry, no use at all. ;D |
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 20, 2010 10:00:38 GMT
Jones is undroppable up top. Quite a lot of the rest falls into place. Thing is, if you follow tazi's logic that we HAVE to start with Walters when play with two wingers, then what happen's when Eidur's fully fit? He's certainly not going to be running around doing the dirty work in the same way.
If you take tazi's argument to it's ultimate conclusion, then we're looking at a Walters/Gudjohnson partnership in the not too distant future. Beattie didn't run around like a headless chicken in that role, did he? Simplistically, at Sunderland, Jones was Mama to Bent's Fuller. And that's what we need here as we've already got a perfectly fine, Premier League standard 'Bent' who fits us like a glove, but no Prem-standard Mama. Tone's got himself in a right muddle on this one. God help him when Gudjohnsen's fit |
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Post by coxeymcqueen on Sept 20, 2010 10:01:48 GMT
Thing is, if you follow tazi's logic that we HAVE to start with Walters when play with two wingers, then what happen's when Eidur's fully fit? He's certainly not going to be running around doing the dirty work in the same way. If you take tazi's argument to it's ultimate conclusion, then we're looking at a Walters/Gudjohnson partnership in the not too distant future. I really don't know how Gudjohnson fits in at all paul. I can't see him playing in the middle. I thought jones would primarily be mama with goals and he looks like being fuller with goals (tin hat). I thought walters would be lawrence with a bit more pace and ability in the air but Walters looks like being mama with less mama. I can see tazi's logic re the two wingers and jones up to but he was started there with delap on the wing. It's baffling at the moment. Bar in injury I think jones will play 90 in both roles leaving GJ nowhere I guess. Sorry, no use at all. ;D I can see EG becoming the new Tuncay: a quality player that will warm the bench for most of the season. I was so excited when he signed but I really can't see the point of him joining Stoke. I hope TP can make it work! |
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Post by jarhead on Sept 20, 2010 10:30:48 GMT
PULIS'S TEAM FOR SUNDAY-if no pennant/jones
SORRO
HUTH RYAN FAYE COLLINS
DELAP WHELAN WHITEHEAD ETHERS
WALTERS FULLER
But if Penners is fit he will come in for Whelan so Delap can play back inside and if Jones is fit surprise surprise Fuller dropped to the bench!!! Absolutely fuckin Lunacy!!!
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Sept 20, 2010 10:41:08 GMT
You took the words right out of my mouth DaveF. I can see a horrible scenario of Ric losing the ability to be Ric and him leaving and that will be a very sad day for the club. Ric is still our best player, the one who excites us the most, gets us off our seats and is most likely to do something that will leave us talking about the game for weeks afterwards. To see him sat on the bench for 60 minutes of any game is soul destroying for me, so god knows what it must be like for him. I go to every game at the moment really excited about the team that we could field, and in both recent home games, Pulis has knocked the stuffing out of me before the game has even kicked off. Ric must start every game for which he is fit and available for. Anything else is quite simply rank bad management from a manager who has done such a remarkably good job for us. The only puzzling thing is why Pulis, a badge-wearing member of the elite corps of the Fuller-is-God fraternity is so muddled on this one. He's always had a very peculiar attachment to hard-working journeymen. If in doubt, stick another 'ard worker in as 'ard work conquers all. In the Premier League, the problem is that it doesn't. In this league, more than any other, you're only as good as your strikers. And if one of ours is Jon Walters, we're not very good at all. Surprising that his other great love, Ricardo Fuller, is getting caught up in the battle inside his head.  If I put on my TP cap then the only explanation I can think of as to why Pulis seems to prefer picking walters is the emerging (OK emerged) dominance of 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 systems in the prem. When we're up against one of these situations then we're left with a 3 v 2 battle in the middle with the numerical advantage to the opposition which is pretty much always going to be a source of problems for us and can be enough to beat us in the hands of certain teams. The question is how to we address that disadvantage? Both wingers are primarily going to be dealing with the space on their own side and will be fairly busy with the winger/wide striker and the full back. Pennant kept tucking in a bit more centrally on saturday (I wasn't sure whether he was under orders to or just did it naturally) but every time their full back popped up in miles of space and pennant immediately had to dash out there to deal with it, leaving a big space where he had previously been. I thought he defended well against their left sided players, but he never made an impact whilst tucked in. The other option is to play Delap out wide who may help out in the centre but, as many have pointed out, surprisingly tends to leave his full back more exposed than matty. That basically leaves with the option of either just letting them have the advantage in the middle and hoping they don't make it count, or changing your shape to match. We try to do a little bit of both by asking a striker to track back a bit and hound the deeper lying midfielders - step up Jon Walters and Mama Sidibe. The question is if you play Fuller and Jones up front together then will one or both of them do that donkey work well enough? If not then can we continue to win games? And if we don't is every side in the league just going to set up with three central midfielders? We did more than ok using a straight 4-4-2 with lawrence, matty, beattie and fuller the season before last, but since we've rarely strayed from having either delap or sidibe or even both doing something to help out in the middle. I would wager that it's going to take a few clean sheets and a return to form from the defence to venture toward 2 wingers and 2 forwards who aren't doing donkey work. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2010 10:52:32 GMT
The only puzzling thing is why Pulis, a badge-wearing member of the elite corps of the Fuller-is-God fraternity is so muddled on this one. He's always had a very peculiar attachment to hard-working journeymen. If in doubt, stick another 'ard worker in as 'ard work conquers all. In the Premier League, the problem is that it doesn't. In this league, more than any other, you're only as good as your strikers. And if one of ours is Jon Walters, we're not very good at all. Surprising that his other great love, Ricardo Fuller, is getting caught up in the battle inside his head. If I put on my TP cap then the only explanation I can think of as to why Pulis seems to prefer picking walters is the emerging (OK emerged) dominance of 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 systems in the prem. When we're up against one of these situations then we're left with a 3 v 2 battle in the middle with the numerical advantage to the opposition which is pretty much always going to be a source of problems for us and can be enough to beat us in the hands of certain teams. The question is how to we address that disadvantage? Both wingers are primarily going to be dealing with the space on their own side and will be fairly busy with the winger/wide striker and the full back. Pennant kept tucking in a bit more centrally on saturday (I wasn't sure whether he was under orders to or just did it naturally) but every time their full back popped up in miles of space and pennant immediately had to dash out there to deal with it, leaving a big space where he had previously been. I thought he defended well against their left sided players, but he never made an impact whilst tucked in. The other option is to play Delap out wide who may help out in the centre but, as many have pointed out, surprisingly tends to leave his full back more exposed than matty. That basically leaves with the option of either just letting them have the advantage in the middle and hoping they don't make it count, or changing your shape to match. We try to do a little bit of both by asking a striker to track back a bit and hound the deeper lying midfielders - step up Jon Walters and Mama Sidibe. The question is if you play Fuller and Jones up front together then will one or both of them do that donkey work well enough? If not then can we continue to win games? And if we don't is every side in the league just going to set up with three central midfielders? We did more than ok using a straight 4-4-2 with lawrence, matty, beattie and fuller the season before last, but since we've rarely strayed from having either delap or sidibe or even both doing something to help out in the middle. I would wager that it's going to take a few clean sheets and a return to form from the defence to venture toward 2 wingers and 2 forwards who aren't doing donkey work. That's all fair enough PB and I broadly agree with you, however when Eidur is fully fit, the manager is going to play Kenwyne behind him ... so why not play KJ in that position now? |
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Post by sjohank on Sept 20, 2010 11:05:11 GMT
So many words, so many thoughts.... ??? What's the problem???  .............................Sorro............................. Deano..........Huth..........ShawX..........Higgy ...........................Delap............................... Pennant..............Eidur.....................Ethers ................Ricardo........Kenwyne................. COME ON TP - we need GOALS, then use the QUALITY we have - from the start of EVERY GAME home and away!!! |
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coggy
Youth Player
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Post by coggy on Sept 20, 2010 11:18:02 GMT
Question - IF KJ was playing the withdrawn position (Don't get me wrong i think it should be 100% KJ & Ric) would he have got there in time to meet Pennants cross for the goal ?
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Post by PickSCFC on Sept 20, 2010 11:19:25 GMT
So many words, so many thoughts.... ??? What's the problem??? .............................Sorro............................. Deano..........Huth..........ShawX..........Higgy ...........................Delap............................... Pennant..............Eidur.....................Ethers ................Ricardo........Kenwyne................. COME ON TP - we need GOALS, then use the QUALITY we have - from the start of EVERY GAME home and away!!! behave yourself, we will never play that side and rightly so |
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Post by PickSCFC on Sept 20, 2010 11:20:19 GMT
Question - IF KJ was playing the withdrawn position (Don't get me wrong i think it should be 100% KJ & Ric) would he have got there in time to meet Pennants cross for the goal ? yes at times jones did muck in with the midfielders |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2010 11:20:43 GMT
Question - IF KJ was playing the withdrawn position (Don't get me wrong i think it should be 100% KJ & Ric) would he have got there in time to meet Pennants cross for the goal ? It's a fair question Coggy. However what I will say, is that KJ still managed to score far more goals than any of our strikers did last season, playing in that very position for Sunderland. |
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coggy
Youth Player
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Post by coggy on Sept 20, 2010 11:24:36 GMT
Question - IF KJ was playing the withdrawn position (Don't get me wrong i think it should be 100% KJ & Ric) would he have got there in time to meet Pennants cross for the goal ? It's a fair question Coggy. However what I will say, is that KJ still managed to score far more goals than any of our strikers did last season, playing in that very position for Sunderland. Agree mate 100%. I am attempting to put the TP cap on ;D KJ is superb in the air. With 2 wingers is he wanting to use his heading ability to score goals from the wingers which he "may" struggle to do as much if he is withdrawn and we are hitting teams fast on the break ? God knows really because i am FIRMLY in the KJ / Ric camp but just attempting to see why TP is thinking on these lines |
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Post by tazi on Sept 20, 2010 11:27:18 GMT
Oi, Spencer and whom the fuck you think you are stating how you believe i'll think it is?.
Fuck you and fuck off.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2010 11:29:54 GMT
Oi, Spencer and whom the fuck you think you are stating how you believe i'll think it is?. Fuck you and fuck off. Pardon?  |
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Sept 20, 2010 11:33:21 GMT
Oi, Spencer and whom the fuck you think you are stating how you believe i'll think it is?. Fuck you and fuck off. WTF |
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Post by RAF on Sept 20, 2010 11:37:03 GMT
Oi, Spencer and whom the fuck you think you are stating how you believe i'll think it is?. Fuck you and fuck off.  Holds up Handbag! H  |
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