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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 23, 2009 13:22:20 GMT
A touch of controversy from me here maybe, but having been absolutely delighted when Tuncay had signed for us, I am now not quite so sure. Maybe I am coming around to TP's view.
It is fairly obvious that Pulis see's him as a forward and on that basis, he is competing directly with Fuller.
Tuncay is no Fuller, and never in a million years would I leave Fuller out in favour of Tunny. Tuncay will get his chance when Fuller is suspended and he has to take it with both hands, otherwise he will be departing in the near future I think.
It is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but he looks weak, lightweight, incapable of holding on to the ball and a little bit too fancy for his colleagues. On this basis, I don't think he can play in the HOLE for us, nor do I think he could do a job in midfield. He isn't quick enough to fill Etherington's role in the team, and he doesn't have the brain of Rory or Lawrence should he deployed on the right. To play him on either flank will effectively see us playing 3 up front, and we know TP will never do this.
Like I say, it is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but my concerns started at Pompey away in the cup, where he was woeful.
Fingers crossed he will come good, but I am getting less optimistic of this every time I see him play. Boro built their side around him and they got relegated. We won't be doing the same! Tuncay will be sold back to Turkey (be it at the end of the season or even in January) and hopefully in returning to Turkey, we will at least get our money back on him...maybe even a small profit.
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Post by A-teen_six_T3 on Nov 23, 2009 13:25:57 GMT
A touch of controversy from me here maybe, but having been absolutely delighted when Tuncay had signed for us, I am now not quite so sure. Maybe I am coming around to TP's view. It is fairly obvious that Pulis see's him as a forward and on that basis, he is competing directly with Fuller. Tuncay is no Fuller, and never in a million years would I leave Fuller out in favour of Tunny. Tuncay will get his chance when Fuller is suspended and he has to take it with both hands, otherwise he will be departing in the near future I think. It is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but he looks weak, lightweight, incapable of holding on to the ball and a little bit too fancy for his colleagues. On this basis, I don't think he can play in the HOLE for us, nor do I think he could do a job in midfield. He isn't quick enough to fill Etherington's role in the team, and he doesn't have the brain of Rory or Lawrence should he deployed on the right. To play him on either flank will effectively see us playing 3 up front, and we know TP will never do this. Like I say, it is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but my concerns started at Pompey away in the cup, where he was woeful. Fingers crossed he will come good, but I am getting less optimistic of this every time I see him play. Boro built their side around him and they got relegated. We won't be doing the same! Tuncay will be sold back to Turkey (be it at the end of the season or even in January) and hopefully in returning to Turkey, we will at least get our money back on him...maybe even a small profit. here here, Although a very decent player, a complete and utter waste of money for us, will never fit into our style of play. To me he seems (like Fuller) a confidence player, but the longer he isn't playing, or creating or scoring, the worse he'll become! It showed agaisnt Hull, he shot from the byline instead of crossing it in to two players in the box.... He's out to prove a point, but by doing so will prove a point to TP that the other striking options (not including Mama) are better
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Post by Danstoke82 on Nov 23, 2009 13:25:57 GMT
I think it's down to when he gets his chance which at the moment is limited. I think it would be rash to let him go.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 13:27:04 GMT
I think it's nigh on impossible to judge until (IF?) he gets a run in the side.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 23, 2009 13:28:23 GMT
I don't see why people jizz over the thought of him playing for us! He had 2 touched yesterday and lost the ball twice!
People are quick to say 'he chased the ball down' but so did Cresswell and he got hounded out of the club!!!!
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Post by mcf on Nov 23, 2009 13:28:35 GMT
Time will tell but what we have now with every player that TP signs is CHS - Carl Hoefkens Syndrome.
If TP plays him straightaway - then he tends to get over analysed and is generally utter shite.
If he's kept on the bench, then it's the greatest waste since the EU food mountain.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Nov 23, 2009 13:29:32 GMT
I agree. After the five minutes he played yesterday, he didn't grab a hat-trick and save a penalty. Truly awful.
Sorry, not a slight on you but he's never going to be given a fair chance because we all know that TP is so set in his ways and he won't moderate his tactics to allow Tuncay to play the role he wants to. Tuncay will be gone come August and will no doubt have a Dave Kitson "What the fuck have I done?" moment soon, if he hasn't already.
He's been managed badly but it's not all about him, it's about a team. I would love to see him at his best playing for Stoke. Sadly, due to circumstances out of his control, it's not going to happen.
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Post by mark71 on Nov 23, 2009 13:33:56 GMT
Like you said Tuncay will need a run of 6 or 7 games in the team until we can really say how good he is but after watching another poor display by Rory on the wing why can't he at least have a run out. He can't do any worse than what we've seen?
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 23, 2009 13:34:14 GMT
He's only played 95 minutes of league football, mostly in little 10 minute bursts in the death throes of pretty insipid team performances, and now must be seriously lacking match fitness. It's a shame there are no internationals scheduled over the winter to top him up ;D
We've already paid the bloke probably somewhere nudging £500,000 in wages.
Far too early to dismiss him, but with that kind of money being pissed down the toilet, someone's got a lot to answer for somewhere, not to mention the couple of mill we'll lose on him should we cut our losses in the next 12 months.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 23, 2009 13:34:59 GMT
What would be his best position though Quim?
I can't see how we could possibly accommodate his talents without leaving ourselves wide open to the fate that fell on Boro who built there team around him and got relegated.
Maybe (subconsciously) I have become a rimmer all of a sudden.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 13:35:22 GMT
If the question is, 'Who is the captain of the Turkish national side?' Then Tuncay is the answer.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Nov 23, 2009 13:37:34 GMT
Can't agree with any of that.
Just because a manager is incapable of harnessing certain players immense talents and devising a system that best suits his talents is hardly the fault of the player.
Turkey and the rest of world football seems to think Tuncay's a decent player and the very best managers find a way of integrating something a bit different into the scheme of things, even if it does mean going to some 'Plan B' or other.
For example, Wenger turned a good right winger in Henry into one of the world's great goalscorers (with and without hands) and Fergie managed to harness Ronald's fantastic abilities into a goalscoring right winger and world player of the year.
As the old saying goes, a bad workman should never blame his tools.
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Post by lew86 on Nov 23, 2009 13:37:39 GMT
He did get pushed off the ball too easily, but he'd chase it back and make himself known, looked dangerous when he was around the box.
Give it time ffs!
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Post by lordb on Nov 23, 2009 13:39:58 GMT
its fait to say that most supporters would have liked to see him either wide left at the begging of the season when Ethers wasnt hitting the heights or wide right when Liam has been out.
however as the post says TP clearly only see's him as a striker & as TP was quoted in the sentinel as saying he will always play Ric OR Tuncay with Beattie OR Mama & never Ric with Tuncay or Beattie with Mama barring injuries leaving him no option.
noticably this season Ric seems to be a new man in that he hasnt been argiung with officials,opposition players or his own team mates & as such a suspension for him seems almost unlikely!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2009 13:42:15 GMT
What would be his best position though Quim? I can't see how we could possibly accommodate his talents without leaving ourselves wide open to the fate that fell on Boro who built there team around him and got relegated. Maybe (subconsciously) I have become a rimmer all of a sudden. I don't see why that makes you a rimmer, don't they blindly support all of the manager's signings/decisions? Quite a few of us on here got slaughtered for daring to suggest that we couldn't see where Tuncay would fit into an Tony Pulis XI in the days immediately after he signed.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Nov 23, 2009 13:42:20 GMT
What would be his best position though Quim? I can't see how we could possibly accommodate his talents without leaving ourselves wide open to the fate that fell on Boro who built there team around him and got relegated. Maybe (subconsciously) I have become a rimmer all of a sudden. Sorry mate, I do tend to agree with the post in a way. I don't think he will be the answer for Stoke City, sadly. I simply cannot see where he will fit in as he's not a winger and although I wouldn't mind a 'floating' kind of player, that's too much of an undisciplined role for Pulis to ever consider (probably rightly). I wouldn't say that his favourite position is too dis-similar to where we play Beattie or Mama. The only difference being he wouldn't want balls played in the air into his head and chest as that's not his game. His game is get it down, look for a clever pass and move - the exact opposite to Pulis' managerial style. Again, it sort of begs the questions of why did we sign him and, more importantly, who?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 23, 2009 13:43:05 GMT
I am not being impatient...Prior to the Pompey game, I would have been leading the clamour for him to feature alongside Fuller or from a wide position.
From what we have seen to date though (and I know that is a very harsh span with which to judge him), he doesn't seem like he could do any of the roles I thought he would be able to adequately for a team of our standing in the Premier League.
I know he is a god in Turkey and he is their captain, but they didn't qualify for the World Cup and he was very influential in a Boro side that got relegated.
Players get better when they aren't included in a side that isn't in the best of form. Let's hope that isn't the case with Tunny.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 23, 2009 13:43:10 GMT
Dave Better put your tin hat on and get the old metal detector out. You've stumbled into the minefield known as Tuncay laid by the PHW's in their 100 years war with the Rimmers. There are many such minefields on this board laid by both sides and all are equally dangerous..... er no I mean tedious (but neither side seems capable of seeing this). But then again I suspect you knew this. Happy fishing.
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Post by mcf on Nov 23, 2009 13:44:25 GMT
Shouting 'Pulis Out' at every game is what convinces me that you are not a rimmer Dave. I take it that you still do that?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 23, 2009 13:47:38 GMT
I sure do MCF...Every game whether we are playing good or bad! ;D I even threw in a couple of "you negative bastard" shouts yesterday! A rimmer is the last thing I want to be but on the Tuncay issue, I think I may be siding with the gaffer. The Lawrence omission and Rory not being deployed in the middle is a joke though and convinces me that I remain a PHW with the best of them. ;D
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Post by mermaidsal on Nov 23, 2009 13:55:06 GMT
I simply can't tell whether he's the answer or not till he's played a couple of full 90 minutes in a team that gives him the chance to do at least some of what he can do.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 23, 2009 13:56:25 GMT
Johhno, Delap playing at all in a Premiership central midfield is a wonder of the world imo. Diao was woeful yesterday as was Blackhead and it is this area of the team that's been just as ignored as the full back positions, although I have to hold my hand up after yesterday and say that Wilko isn't letting us down at right back, even though he'll probably lose his place once Faye is fit! I'd still pick Whelan, Lawrence and Etherington as three of my four in midfield. As for Tuncay I fail to see how he'll get a full game unless Fuller is out, which is a shame as he has flair and is a quick thinker.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2009 13:59:30 GMT
Diao was woeful yesterday as was Blackhead and it is this area of the team that's been just as ignored as the full back positions, I wouldn't say they've been ignored Mike when in the region of 12 million was spent on those three positions in the summer.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 23, 2009 14:06:56 GMT
Johhno, Delap playing at all in a Premiership central midfield is a wonder of the world imo. Diao was woeful yesterday as was Blackhead and it is this area of the team that's been just as ignored as the full back positions, although I have to hold my hand up after yesterday and say that Wilko isn't letting us down at right back, even though he'll probably lose his place once Faye is fit! I'd still pick Whelan, Lawrence and Etherington as three of my four in midfield. As for Tuncay I fail to see how he'll get a full game unless Fuller is out, which is a shame as he has flair and is a quick thinker. I haven't become a Whitehead fan but yesterday I thought he had a decent game and was the best of our three central midfielders - although Delap improved when moved to the centre. I was pleased to see Whitehead's contribution to the goal and I suspect he is right when he says that he is being contrained at the moment by TP's instructions as to how he should play.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 23, 2009 14:07:22 GMT
Know what you mean Paul and you know what I'm saying too. I love where we are in the table but take a quick look below us and therein lies madness. I can't see performances improving unless he plays Lawrence and (imo) Whelan. There's no fluidity or movement in our play and the goal yesterday came out of the blue........it was the only bit of creative footy we put together.
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Post by stokecity4life on Nov 23, 2009 14:12:55 GMT
you cant judge someone who hasnt played yet.
He would potentially be awesome in Fuller`s position, just wait until Fuller gets his next yellow card....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2009 14:12:52 GMT
Know what you mean Paul and you know what I'm saying too. I love where we are in the table but take a quick look below us and therein lies madness. I can't see performances improving unless he plays Lawrence and (imo) Whelan. There's no fluidity or movement in our play and the goal yesterday came out of the blue........it was the only bit of creative footy we put together. I can't really see our performances improving unless he drops the players that he bought when he 'addressed' those positions in the summer.
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Post by mcf on Nov 23, 2009 14:13:29 GMT
Uncs and Paul
Given that we are 9th, and that we are winning games and generally do well in this tough league give you the slightest thought that you may be being a tad over critical on a number of our players?
Johnno
I want Delap in the middle and Lozza on the wing so you will have to do better than that. Good work on the continued abuse though. ;D
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Post by luke2u on Nov 23, 2009 14:17:26 GMT
I think he can play in the Mama role with Fuller. Not by heading to Fuller, but to make passes and flick ons to Fuller. He has what's needed, and he can hold on to the ball. I think Tuncay, Ringtone and Lenny could do a good job withe Fuller with quick passing, like yesterday when Fuller scored.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 23, 2009 14:20:09 GMT
What a ridiculous post FFS......Based on 7 minute appearances!!!!! Talk about shooting someone down before they have been given a chance To compare him to Cresswell is ridiculous, Cresswell was given extended runs in the first 11 to prove his crapness. When a player comes on as a sub it takes 10-15 to get into a game, Tuncay is given half of that and then because he doesn't score a hat trick, he's a waste of money. Stupid post imho
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