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Post by headsgoup on Nov 23, 2009 18:30:55 GMT
I think Pulis has brought in the players he has to bolster the squad more than anything.
Fuller and Beattie do score goals and obviously Tuncay will have to wait. Things can change very quickly, suspensions, long injuries etc, he'll get his chance.
Tuncay is a great talent and I'm absolutely delighted we have him to fall back on instead of Cresswell.
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Nov 23, 2009 18:31:11 GMT
he needs to look at the examples other players are setting. At the moment he is competing with Fuller for that 1 position and Fuller is doing everything right. When he picks up a suspension Tunc will get his chance and he needs to make himself undroppable. What about the examples that the manager is setting to the other players in this regard however? It hardly worked for Wilko did it? I don't agree with every decision Pulis makes. For me, I would go with Huth, Ryan, Abdy and Wilko as the back four next week. I would also play Lenny on the right wing. But you can be sure if Wilko is dropped, he will keep on working untill he does win his way back into the team. I don't think he will be throwing strops around but will of course be disapointed. The fact is we are sitting 9th in the table so Pulis has earnt the right to pick whichever team he fancies. After shelling out 5m on Tuncay, you can be sure Pulis wants him to succeed as much as the next man. If he does get a chance and take it, I just don't see him being dropped. But ulitimately, that decision lies with the manager. He's entitled to do things his way.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 23, 2009 18:34:50 GMT
At the moment, he isn't even 1 part of the puzzle though is he? Many thought he would be THE player to take us on to the next level, to help our playing style evolve but he isn't and hasn't been to date? As for those questioning Rory's football brain...That is his greatest asset. He spots danger a mile off, fills in all the time for team mates who have left their natural positions and generally sweeps up all signs of danger. Whilst I would never advocate playing him wide, he even does this job from wide positions. Hence my comment that he doesn't have Rory's brain. I am sure that Tunny is a wonderfully creative footballer but I can't imagine that spotting danger to his own team is one of his strengths. From a wide position or centrally, Rory is fantastic at this, and Lenny is pretty good in terms of having a good defensive mind from a wide position. He obviously offers us so much more offensively than Rory to. Hence I query whether Tunny could do a job in the wide positions for Stoke. When he arrived, I thought he would be playing up top with Fuller or possibly out wide in place of Ethers. Fingers crossed his chance soon arrives and that he takes it with aplomb! So the reason he can't play is because he's not defensive enough? Aren't 8 defensive players out of 11 enough?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 18:43:38 GMT
Tuncay is a good footballer, international for Turkey and captain to boot...so I would imagine he has plenty to offer. He is definitely NOT a Pulis type player which is what is causing all the ruckus about him being on the bench, as those against Tony use the 'never plays skill players' reasoning to beat him and everyone else over the head about it.
Tuncay is simply unlucky in that Fuller is indispensable, Beattie is bigger and has scored goals for us, and Mama has proven to be very very effective for our style of play.
On the upside, Kitson is now out of the way so Tuncay is closer than ever before, although he will not play much until one of Fuller, Etherington or Lawrence are injured or suspended for 2-3 games. Then he'll get his chance and he'll need to take it.
Right now we are 9th because the league is crap from approx 10th downwards, so in terms of safety all is well.
Everyone needs to just chill out and be patient...including him. For me, getting Lawrence and Whelan back in the team are far more important to playing better football, and MOST importantly, better WINNING football.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 23, 2009 18:46:41 GMT
For me from what I've seen of him for turkey and Boro he's good enough to build a team around with the right players and I think he could play the "beardsley" role just behind Ric away and Beats and Ric at home. At the moment there's a huge chasm between the midfield and front 2 and that was obvious on Saturday. If TP is so obsessed with playing Delap.Diao and Whitehead then perhaps he could look at playing an Xmas tree formation as below.
Sorro
Wilko Abde Ryan Higgy
Delap Diao Whitehead
Tuncay Ethers
Ric
Of course I'd prefer Whelo and Lawro in the team but perhaps if TP picked this team he could please both himself and the fans with a bit of flair as well as being very solid.
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Post by staffordshireknot on Nov 23, 2009 18:46:42 GMT
A touch of controversy from me here maybe, but having been absolutely delighted when Tuncay had signed for us, I am now not quite so sure. Maybe I am coming around to TP's view. It is fairly obvious that Pulis see's him as a forward and on that basis, he is competing directly with Fuller. Tuncay is no Fuller, and never in a million years would I leave Fuller out in favour of Tunny. Tuncay will get his chance when Fuller is suspended and he has to take it with both hands, otherwise he will be departing in the near future I think. It is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but he looks weak, lightweight, incapable of holding on to the ball and a little bit too fancy for his colleagues. On this basis, I don't think he can play in the HOLE for us, nor do I think he could do a job in midfield. He isn't quick enough to fill Etherington's role in the team, and he doesn't have the brain of Rory or Lawrence should he deployed on the right. To play him on either flank will effectively see us playing 3 up front, and we know TP will never do this. Like I say, it is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but my concerns started at Pompey away in the cup, where he was woeful. Fingers crossed he will come good, but I am getting less optimistic of this every time I see him play. Boro built their side around him and they got relegated. We won't be doing the same! Tuncay will be sold back to Turkey (be it at the end of the season or even in January) and hopefully in returning to Turkey, we will at least get our money back on him...maybe even a small profit. I disagree Yesterday the way he ran, ball chasing, at the Portsmouth defence on the two occasions he was able to in the 7 minutes he was given clearly scared the shit out of them. He could be a 20 goal a season man for us and its bollocks to say he can't play with fuller as he proved he can during the blackpool game when he and fuller changed the game second half.
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Post by lurcherman on Nov 23, 2009 18:55:49 GMT
In my little head, I keep wondering whether it's more to do with players we missed out on in the summer, as to why tuncay now looks like a strange signing. Pulis does keep saying he has a big part to play for Stoke, so maybe it will all become much clearer in the Jan transfer window if my theory is correct So here's to an influx of quality ball players to compliment our pool of grafters and battlers ;D
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 18:56:38 GMT
Tuncay Watch!
On the field for exactly 10 minutes.
3 touches of the ball - given away twice & third occasion was illegally taken free kick that he got away with.
2 attempts to chase down defenders - one throw in won and one easily outwitted by lumbering centre back
No shots
No chasing back
No headers won
However, I think Tuncay could claim an assist for our goal yesterday in what was his most incisive moment since he joined SCFC.
I've still to see any spark of excitement from him in a Prem game. His upper body strength is non-existent and he lacks pace. And yet I am still excited by the prospect of him establishing himself as a legend for us.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 23, 2009 18:58:33 GMT
Tuncay Watch! On the field for exactly 10 minutes. 3 touches of the ball - given away twice & third occasion was illegally taken free kick that he got away with. 2 attempts to chase down defenders - one throw in won and one easily outwitted by lumbering centre back No shots No chasing back No headers won However, I think Tuncay could claim an assist for our goal yesterday in what was his most incisive moment since he joined SCFC. I've still to see any spark of excitement from him in a Prem game. His upper body strength is non-existent and he lacks pace. And yet I am still excited by the prospect of him establishing himself as a legend for us. Remember the stick Cresswell used to get because all he could do was 'chase the ball'
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 18:58:46 GMT
He's intelligent enough to play with anyone, it's just making sure that we have a side on the field who match him. Intelligent players with good movement and touches are the key, which is why Ethers, Liam and Whelan should be behind Tuncay and Fuller. Stoke hit Fuller in the channels as much as possible, or work it down the wings with Ethers or Liam...that's when we are at our best under Pulis. The key is, can Tuncay win a header on goal from a cross from any of those players...as that's our normal end result. Beattie can, and plays. Kitson can't and doesn't. Mama can, can't score and still plays...manager's love child?!
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 19:00:07 GMT
He's intelligent enough to play with anyone, it's just making sure that we have a side on the field who match him. Intelligent players with good movement and touches are the key, which is why Ethers, Liam and Whelan should be behind Tuncay and Fuller. Stoke hit Fuller in the channels as much as possible, or work it down the wings with Ethers or Liam...that's when we are at our best under Pulis. The key is, can Tuncay win a header on goal from a cross from any of those players...as that's our normal end result. Beattie can, and plays. Kitson can't and doesn't. Mama can, can't score and still plays...manager's love child?! If he's so intelligent, then why can't he speak English after spending years in the country?
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Post by thicknthin on Nov 23, 2009 19:00:22 GMT
Lurcherman. I wish you were right, unfortunately I think it's called clutching at straws.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 19:13:25 GMT
March...good players know what's coming way before they have to talk about it. What a daft post.
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 19:16:40 GMT
March...good players know what's coming way before they have to talk about it. What a daft post. Not really. He has been in this country for years. Why can't he speak English? It can't be an advantage and in a team that is set up so methodically as ours, it must be a disadvantage if you can't understand the finer detail of the tactics. He looked weak again yesterday and I still can't see where he can fit in our team shape, which upsets me because I have had high hopes about his potential.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 23, 2009 19:20:57 GMT
March...good players know what's coming way before they have to talk about it. What a daft post. it must be a disadvantage if you can't understand the finer detail of the tactics. You are taking the piss mate!!!!! The finer detail!?!?!?! - which is what? Which flank to whack it down to force a throw in? You're 'avin a giraffe.
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 19:22:50 GMT
it must be a disadvantage if you can't understand the finer detail of the tactics. You are taking the piss mate!!!!! The finer detail!?!?!?! - which is what? Which flank to whack it down to force a throw in? You're 'avin a giraffe. Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 23, 2009 19:27:38 GMT
You are taking the piss mate!!!!! The finer detail!?!?!?! - which is what? Which flank to whack it down to force a throw in? You're 'avin a giraffe. Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal. My favourite players? You are mixing me up with someone else pal. The manager picked from his squad - it could be argued that his squad strengthening i.e. spending £40million has been a waste of time and money with shite performances like the one at Fratton Park. Personally, everytime Stoke play I like to see the strongest side possible. I would also like to refer you to my Tincay jizz fest post, the one where I doubted his ability and questioned where the manager would play him, only to be shouted down by knob ends like AGSF and Sgt Muttley for being negative.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 23, 2009 19:30:30 GMT
If Tuncay is so good then why did Boro go down??
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Post by Davef on Nov 23, 2009 19:33:09 GMT
If Tuncay is so good then why did Boro go down?? Possibly for the same reason as Sunderland went down a few years ago with Collins and Whitehead as mainstays of their team.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 19:33:16 GMT
He's not my favorite player March mate, but to say an international captain / attacking player needs to speak english on the pitch to be any good is daft. He's a very good player who needs to be played to and with more creatively than picking up knockdowns or chasing into the channels. If you pick him you have to play good football to his feet otherwise it's pointless.
I do think Tony has seen us win games (regardless of style) and not seen the urgency to pick him...if we'd been losing more I think we'd have seen him by now. He will get his chance once Fuller, Lawrence or Ethers is injured or suspended...and he'll need to take that chance with both hands. I'd love to see him actually do well for us as I think it would open Tony's eye's!
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 19:35:44 GMT
If Tuncay is so good then why did Boro go down?? Possibly for the same reason as Sunderland went down a few years ago with Collins and Whitehead as mainstays of their team. I think you've just damned Mr Sanli there ;D
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Post by Beardy200 on Nov 23, 2009 19:39:00 GMT
A touch of controversy from me here maybe, but having been absolutely delighted when Tuncay had signed for us, I am now not quite so sure. Maybe I am coming around to TP's view. It is fairly obvious that Pulis see's him as a forward and on that basis, he is competing directly with Fuller. Tuncay is no Fuller, and never in a million years would I leave Fuller out in favour of Tunny. Tuncay will get his chance when Fuller is suspended and he has to take it with both hands, otherwise he will be departing in the near future I think. It is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but he looks weak, lightweight, incapable of holding on to the ball and a little bit too fancy for his colleagues. On this basis, I don't think he can play in the HOLE for us, nor do I think he could do a job in midfield. He isn't quick enough to fill Etherington's role in the team, and he doesn't have the brain of Rory or Lawrence should he deployed on the right. To play him on either flank will effectively see us playing 3 up front, and we know TP will never do this. Like I say, it is harsh to judge him on his cameo appearances to date, but my concerns started at Pompey away in the cup, where he was woeful. Fingers crossed he will come good, but I am getting less optimistic of this every time I see him play. Boro built their side around him and they got relegated. We won't be doing the same! Tuncay will be sold back to Turkey (be it at the end of the season or even in January) and hopefully in returning to Turkey, we will at least get our money back on him...maybe even a small profit. I disagree Yesterday the way he ran, ball chasing, at the Portsmouth defence on the two occasions he was able to in the 7 minutes he was given clearly scared the shit out of them. He could be a 20 goal a season man for us and its bollocks to say he can't play with fuller as he proved he can during the blackpool game when he and fuller changed the game second half. 20 goals a season man? ;D For Arsenal or Barcelona perhaps but never for us.
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Post by slangking on Nov 23, 2009 19:44:28 GMT
Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal. My favourite players? You are mixing me up with someone else pal. The manager picked from his squad - it could be argued that his squad strengthening i.e. spending £40million has been a waste of time and money with shite performances like the one at Fratton Park. Personally, everytime Stoke play I like to see the strongest side possible. I would also like to refer you to my Tincay jizz fest post, the one where I doubted his ability and questioned where the manager would play him, only to be shouted down by knob ends like AGSF and Sgt Muttley for being negative. I can't remember this, but no surprise that you were being negative, when are you ever positive? Seriously I wonder how you manage to get out of bed in the morning.
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Post by MrMagic on Nov 23, 2009 19:47:20 GMT
; You are taking the piss mate!!!!! The finer detail!?!?!?! - which is what? Which flank to whack it down to force a throw in? You're 'avin a giraffe. Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal. The team that lost at Fratton park 4-0 was also Pulis' team March. Or do we only attribute "the touch of the messiah" to victories? Nice made up stats BTW.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Nov 23, 2009 19:49:47 GMT
Sadly I'm beginning to agree tuncay isnt the answer - at least not at this stage of our premier life. one thing for sure is our manager (who I'm making a consious effort to be more positive about despite recent frustrations) will play and has for many seasons played 2 defensive central midfielders whose main aim is to protect the centre backs, this rules out tuncay in this role. (I include whelan in this defensive role as I dont see him as the great playmaker that some do - he has to be on very top form to even resemble a quality creative midfielder when he is not on top of his game he is average at best)
right/left wing is a possible role for tuncay but matty is a cert on current form and is our only real outlet option with pace on the wings, liam and rory seem to be the managers 1st and 2nd choice for right wing, so unles a loss of form or injury to matty I see no real opening here for tuncay.
the role of second striker is a real and in my view an exciting possibility but we would have to change our style to playing balls to his feet as he doesnt have the strength to carry out the role beattie or mama do, this i also cant see happening as it is clear we are not likely to change how this second striker plays and beattie and mama are clearly the 2 favoured ones for this position.
the role of first striker that ricci plays is also not suitable for tuncay as he neither has the power or speed to do this role justice.
so sadly i agree that no tuncay is not the answer, I feel he has joined us a couple of seasons to early for this move to become a success. i hope i'm wrong as i would love to see a player of this type in our team. but i think it's a case of the right player at the wrong time.
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Post by berniescfc on Nov 23, 2009 19:51:17 GMT
Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal. What an arse
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Post by march4 on Nov 23, 2009 19:52:20 GMT
; Just a reminder. TP's Stoke team beat Pompey 1-0. Your favourite players lost 4-0 to the same team a month ago without mustering a single attempt on goal. The team that lost at Fratton park 4-0 was also Pulis' team March. Or do we only attribute "the touch of the messiah" to victories? Nice made up stats BTW. Tonge, Tuncay, Kitson, Lawrence, Whelan. Certain posters have been consistent in asking for these to play in the same Stoke side. TP graciously allowed their will to prevail and look what happened. We need that strong spine, otherwise we are food and drink for our opponents. I was desperate for Higgy to play, but have had the good sense to shut up about him since this game ;D
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 23, 2009 20:07:35 GMT
I'm struggling to understand why we signed him , i think this post is pretty much bang on I think his best position would be at the attacking point of a diamond formation and we aint ever going to play that style , he isnt strong enough to play the mama role or up front in our system . Boro were relegated beacuse they did not score enough goals , really strange signing that has caused a lot of tension for fans hoping to see a change of style that I simply dont see coming soon
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Nov 23, 2009 20:10:35 GMT
march you have an amazing ability to wind fellow posters up... i dont know how you do it! bet your a laugh a minute down your local...
although it could be said mr coates graciously allowed over £12 million pounds to be spent on the first 3 names on your list - i'm sure he would like to see why he was persuaded to spend his money occassionally - or we might just find the war chest is firmly closed come january - theres no point having a multi million pound reserve team.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 23, 2009 22:19:47 GMT
He's intelligent enough to play with anyone, it's just making sure that we have a side on the field who match him. Intelligent players with good movement and touches are the key, which is why Ethers, Liam and Whelan should be behind Tuncay and Fuller. Stoke hit Fuller in the channels as much as possible, or work it down the wings with Ethers or Liam...that's when we are at our best under Pulis. The key is, can Tuncay win a header on goal from a cross from any of those players...as that's our normal end result. Beattie can, and plays. Kitson can't and doesn't. Mama can, can't score and still plays...manager's love child?! If he's so intelligent, then why can't he speak English after spending years in the country? Ask Mama?
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