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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 4, 2020 10:58:26 GMT
One of the first games I went to, Mike Pejic lashed a free kick past David Harvey when we beat Leeds 3-2. But more recently, I remember Liam Lawrence scoring a pearler against QPR the season we were promoted. In fairness, both of those goals the ball may have been touched to them...
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Feb 17, 2020 15:09:20 GMT
Anybody can beat anybody in this league. From what I saw, only highlights on Stoke City world, I was impressed with QPR. They moved the ball pretty well and their passing into the box and movement off the ball belied a team in their run of form and league position.
That said, Nick Powell's pass into Sam Clucas for the first goal was a beautiful thing. Back to the play, superb vision and one-touch execution. Tidy finish from Clucas too.
Baath and Chester still getting to know each other and look a bit rusty. Be nice to see Ryan back in the team. I think him and Chester or Collins might be a decent centre back pairing. He must have considered playing Clucas in McClean's position. Might see that satdee.
Losing away to a team who played well isn't going to define this season. Get back on the horse and beat Cardiff at the weekend and we'll all feel a little happier.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 29, 2020 14:50:01 GMT
Maybe the fans are just supporting the players? Maybe the fans understand that we are in the second tier now and therefore our players are likely to be limited and unable to provide performances of robotic perfection like you seem to demand? No. Stoke fans like hard workers. Footballing ability doesn’t matter if they work hard. It’s always (as long as I can remember) been the case. It’s odd. And it’s not support when you’re talking about them on here. This is the place to be objective. To talk about players honestly. Gregory was always going to be liked for the reasons outlined. Nothing to do with supporting our players. I respect your opinion and there is no doubt that Stoke supporters love a hard worker. I totally disagree that Stokies don't appreciate footballing ability. Sir Stan, Alan Hudson, Jimmy Greenhoff, Geoff Salmons, Tony Kelly, Peter Beagrie, Peter Hoekstra, Bjarni, Mark Stein, Lee Hendrie, Ricardo Fuller, Bojan, Shaqiri were all big favourites based on their ability as opposed to their workrate. Must be way more that people can think of. I think you're wrong on this. Stoke supporters will put up with a less talented player if he works hard, and like and respect him, but they love the classy footballers. EDIT - clearly didn't read the rest of the thread. i seem to be in the majority here!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 28, 2020 19:44:09 GMT
I don't suppose the analysts have developed a metric for xConfidence. [/div] [/quote] Not quite :-) I've heard all the "lost the dressing room" stuff, but Stoke we're still creating/allowing chances that were consistent with a lower to midtable team, even if all that were true. I haven't seen many keepers who've had such a dismal post shot save underperformance as JB was having. But I've never seen one who continued or was allowed to continue playing that poorly either. Having looked at the under performance in attack, that was more about opposing keepers playing well against our post shot xG than it was about JA hitting the post from 12 inches. So I'd expect that to have also regressed to a more acceptable level of returns (unless every Championship keeper had a particular superhero vendetta against us). We projected final points in the high 40's towards he end of NJ, so survival was touch and go. MON's improved the performance, we're now forecasting mid to high 50's. [/quote] I actually think that's about right. I've even had a look at the fixtures and I got us to about 57 points. Anything over that will be impressive.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 28, 2020 17:53:16 GMT
Comes over very well. Seems a nice bloke Indeed. Sadly misunderstood and misrepresented for having deep rooted cultural and political views. Regardless of whether I agree with him or not, I admire his principles and strength of character.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 28, 2020 17:29:23 GMT
[/qu ote]Thanks. I love your statistical analysis.
I understand how the data analyses performance - it supports what we see with our own eyes.
I am less confident about predicted trends based on past data. It ignores the human element of football - belief, confidence, form, momentum.
In this relatively poor league, where any team can beat any other team, the mental side, the team spirit, the fight - the things that can't be shown in the data - will surely determine how successful a team like Stoke will be. My guess right now is that Stoke will out-perform their xG prediction this season, based on non statistical factors the data cannot analyse. Great points. Data analysis is a constant challenge between descriptive stats (what happened) and predictive stats (what's going to happen). We weight more recent data points, so if there's an improvement (for whatever reason) it does gradually filter through into the master team ratings we use to project future performance. I have to admit narrative driven explainations don't appeal to me, I really would like to see a tangible uptick in the underlying numbers. Which is what we have seen with MON (so that's very encouraging). 73% of Premier League teams who showed the most momentum between the first 3rd of a season and the second third (without showing an improvement in their underlying figures) promptly lost that momentum in the final 3rd, suggesting "improvement" can just be statistical noise. Stoke, post NJ are averaging 1.54 xG per game and allowing 0.99 xG per game. That's consistent with 24 points over the period, we've won 23. (Nice solid underpinned performance) Under NJ this season it was 1.3 for and 1.24 against. Consistent with 20 points. We won 8........Unlucky as.... Thanks for the reply. Absolutely fascinating. Two more quick points. I love the narrative analysis! Having spent a large chunk of my working life with writing as part of my job, I love the written and spoken word when it cones to match analysis. Although I'm fascinated by how accurate data analysis can be, I'm also a little underwhelmed by it. It kind of sucks the soul out of "the beautiful game". Paddy Cerrand's description of George Best giving defenders "twisted blood" conjures up an accurate, realistic image of that change of pace and direction as Best jinked past his markers. Averaging 1.54 xG per game doesn't really make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Likewise, Cliff Morgan's beautiful, lyrical commentary on Gareth Edwards early try for the Barbarians against The All Blacks in 1973 (?) is like commentary, reportage, poetry and instant folklore rolled into one. "Brilliant, that's brilliant!" It's become the sound track to an immortal passage of Rugby, just like "They think it's all over - it is now!" I know that, unlike the data, it actually tells us nothing, but somehow it tells us everything, and it stays with us forever. Maybe it's the difference between science and entertainment. In some cases almost art. I'll be fascinated to see how we go against our predictive data. I still think we'll out perform. Not based on data, but based on a feeling, a hunch, seeing the confidence, belief and team spirit flood back into this group of players. Btw, just in case you've never heard it, here's Cliff.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 28, 2020 9:33:50 GMT
MON's improved the quantity and quality of chances we create by 18% compared to NJ. MON's reduced the quality and quantity of chances we concede by 21% compared to NJ. That's bankable improvement on both sides of the ball in our process. These figures have transfered into attempts on target at around the expected rate for both managers. The big difference in shots/headers on target is that under NJ we scored 28% fewer goals and allowed 33% more than was expected based on the shot placement, power etc. So additionally, if you think our manager has any control over how opposing keepers save our on target chances or how our keeper saves the opposition's on target chances, it's another big plus mark for MON vs NJ. My take is that MON has improved the process and on target attempts have materialised and been saved/allowed at the expected rate. NJ produced an inferior process and suffered dismally with negative variance when that process turned into on target attempts. Thanks. I love your statistical analysis. I understand how the data analyses performance - it supports what we see with our own eyes. I am less confident about predicted trends based on past data. It ignores the human element of football - belief, confidence, form, momentum. In this relatively poor league, where any team can beat any other team, the mental side, the team spirit, the fight - the things that can't be shown in the data - will surely determine how successful a team like Stoke will be. My guess right now is that Stoke will out-perform their xG prediction this season, based on non statistical factors the data cannot analyse.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 28, 2020 9:23:55 GMT
The FA Cup should mean a bit more to Liverpool than this. Dead right Joe and Paul Spencer. Klopp is the manager of Liverpool FC. They enter The Premier League, FA Cup, the Caraboo or however they've re-branded The League Cup. Their league position means they qualify for European competition. They are obliged by the spirit of the game (as are all clubs - not just having a go at Liverpool) to field a strong team. Championship, League 1 and League 2 clubs make the now normal 9 changes for cup fixtures. What a sad state of affairs. That's one issue. The other is his disrespect for this famous cup competition. There is no valid reason why the manager of Liverpool Football Club should not be at a first team fixture in the 4th round of the FA Cup. End of debate. If we let these things slide, we will lose the FA Cup.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 27, 2020 14:34:35 GMT
In my opinion, Klopp has held the oldest cup competition in the world in complete contempt this season.
I was hoping that Everton would put them out last round, but sadly they are so poor they couldn't finish Klopp's kids off.
He clearly thinks it's not worth the effort, doesn't want to take part and has little respect for the FA Cup. I think it's very poor if he's not at the replay.
They're going to stroll the league this season. Not even Liverpool can blow it from here. It's not like he desperately needs to save his players - they've got a big first team squad. Bob Paisley's Liverpool used to aim to win the double and succeed in Europe. It's a slur on a great football club.
It's the thin end of the wedge. How long before the top 6 pull out of the FA Cup altogether - probably citing European priorities as the excuse.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 27, 2020 11:44:32 GMT
A great second half of the season would be fantastic. I never felt this team would be relegated. Too many decent players at this level.
Still a lot of work to be done on and off the pitch. Finish strong and sort out the squad in the summer.
Next season is massive. Last year of parachute payments so the pressure will be on.
Things certainly looking up though. MoN has kept it simple. Got them fit, organised and playing to a clear system. Confidence and belief are coming back and there is more to come. With our players in this league, that will take us a long way. I've always said that Stoke should fear no one in this league, home or away.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 23, 2020 15:04:33 GMT
He's a young lad who has only recently broken into the first team regularly, and has now scored 5 in his last 9 games with a couple of assists thrown in.
Goal-making goal scorers are about the most precious commodity in football. He will have a high value to other clubs - both for his goals and impact now and for future re-sale.
I don't think he will sign a contract with Stoke. The people around him know that he's gold dust at this time.
We would have to offer big money to keep him now.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 21, 2020 12:38:17 GMT
For the oldies, does anybody think he’s got a touch of Waddo about him? Understated, unassuming, doesn’t get rattled...obviously a deep thinker when it comes to football. Yes, there is a lot of truth in that. One word that springs to mind when talking about Waddo and MON is "modesty". Something which you don't associate with most managers in the modern game. Both men were good man managers and both felt the game should always be about the players and not about about them (the managers). If MON does keep us up I will be very optimistic about the future - providing, of course, that we can hang on to him! There has to be a danger of losing him unless and until we get to the Premier League - as I have no doubt that where his future lies - hopefully it will be with us. Yep, the celebrity manager began with the likes of Shankly, Clough, Docherty, Alison etc. I like MoN's style too. Chis Hughton would have been the same. Football's still a simple game. In this league if you are organised and do the basics well, you should succeed. We have some decent players - it's a case of finding a settled system that suits them and building confidence.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 16, 2020 15:23:01 GMT
Adrian Heath definitely scored for Everton against us. Simon Stainrod scored for QPR against us in a 0-6 defeat and I'm pretty sure that Robbie James scored for QPR against us not long after he left in 84/85. I was at Goodison in 83 or 84. We lost 4-0 (I think) to a fantastic Everton team. From memory I think Inchy scored twice. Paul Bracewell might have played too.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 15, 2020 16:08:06 GMT
I have a feeling that Jon Parkin may have scored for Hull City in a 1-1 draw at Stoke. How about Peter Odemwingie?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 15, 2020 16:05:56 GMT
I'm guessing that Big John may have scored against us for Sheff Wednesday?
How about Charlie Adam? Has he ever scored against us?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 8, 2020 16:07:01 GMT
Great analysis, FM.
As we all know, the squad is too big and expensive. I suspect the "ins" will absolutely depend on the "outs".
I agree with the majority - we look short at LB.
Realistically we need to survive this season, which I think we will, (dare I say fairly comfortably?) then have a real push next season. It will be much easier to go up with our parachute than without it - if you see what I mean.
For that to happen, I personally think we need our Lionheart warrior Ryan Shawcross to stay fit and form a solid partnership with one of the other CBs.
As always I'm optimistic, but interesting times ahead...
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 8, 2020 15:52:48 GMT
Thanks for posting that.
It shows how complex running the football club really is. You would hope that the club still hold some "assets" - Butland, Ndaiye, Etebo & Allen in the short term - some or all of which they might have expected to "liquidize" last summer. That would have made a huge difference to the £44m net transfer deficit. Looking ahead, Collins, Verlinden, potentially Powell & possibly Campbell if we can retain him, look to be our future assets.
It also shows how crucial it is getting the big decisions right, critically manager & player recruitment. The higher up the pyramid you go, the harder it gets to improve the team, and boy the crash can come quickly.
Finally, anyone still questioning the role of the Coates family, and in particular, Peter and John, might want to read this. However wealthy you are, £180 million is a lot of money. Heaven knows where we would be without them.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jan 3, 2020 12:19:41 GMT
Nope. I am sure the NJ fan boys hiding in the corner still secretly hate him. They just can't say anything as MoN is doing such a job without buying anyone new. I think NJ had plenty of people who desperately wanted to believe he could walk the walk. I've not seen any evidence of anybody being an "NJ fan boy" though? It was pretty obvious by the end that he was out of his depth, even for his most ardent well-wishers. For a thread about uniting the fans, can we stop this "fan boy" type of talk please? I wanted Nathan to succeed. He had something and his enthusiasm was infectious. Might be a case of wrong club, wrong time, and maybe he will have his day in the sun somewhere else. It became such a chaotic mess though it was hard to defend him, and some of his signings were difficult to fathom. I agree with BM. I feel we are in a much better place with MoN. I posted at the time that I thought it was a good appointment when we had been linked with Pardew etc, although I didn't fancy Pearson either, so what do I know?! I am a bit of a loyalist though and will back any Stoke manager and any player who wears the famous red & white shirt!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 14, 2019 13:47:37 GMT
Greaves would probably be in there, but unfortunately and strangely I never saw him play (at his peak) only at the very backend of his career for WHU. Incredible player though. Robson is a good call as would be Keane I reckon, but we (or I) tend to overlook the ones who do the graft as well in these scenarios. The thing is about Hudson, is that he mostly played in a 2 man midfield with John Mahoney. We usually had Robertson and Salmons playing wide. I think its overlooked that he was good at closing players down and tackling too when needed, though massive credit to Mahoney who did a great bulk of the donkey work. I get the rose tinted glasses bit, but these players were incredible when you consider the lack of protection they got from refs, the kind of tackling they had to endure (Harris, Storey, Bremner etc) the pitches they played on, even the weight of the ball in some cases. Hard to compare with players today who have a very easy ride by comparison. I agree entirely - I sometimes wonder if the talents I watched as a youngster (all those you list plus the likes of Currie, Marsh, Worthington , Bowles etc) played under today’s conditions what heights they would hit. There again the character of some of those players combined with today’s astronomic wages could have produced some rather self destructive results 😏 The game seems all about professionalism and athleticism now. You do wonder if despite their massive talent, those players would be less effective in today's game. If I think of the few modern players who relied on talent rather than running, they were, well, misunderstood? Le Tiz, Cantona, Ginola, maybe Gazza springs to mind. Even our own Charlie Adam, (though not in the same category) has been hammered on here for his fitness. Despite his wild lifestyle, Hudson was apparently a good trainer and super fit. These days, when extreme talent and professionalism combine you get a world class player like Ronaldo, Denis Bergkamp or Paul Scholes.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 14, 2019 12:29:55 GMT
Still think he was under rated. So much natural ability - strength, pace, ball control - he was a threat from anywhere on the pitch. Great finisher and I didn't realise how good in the air he was until we got to the Prem. A genuine football maverick. Sometimes those that tell me how terrible Pulis's football was make me smile - ironicly he gave us the Great Entertainer. Fuller was the reason people tolerated the football for so long. Once Ric was out of the team the writing was on the wall. That may well be true, but it shouldn't take anything away from Ricardo. He was a hell of a player.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 14, 2019 12:05:33 GMT
Well we are a bunch of old men now and our eyes remember what we saw.
But some younger fans on here compare Hudson to Nzonzi, Huth to Smith ... blah blah. It is the nature of the game. For myself Hudson, Greenhoff, Smith,Pej .... really were the best. No way on this earth was Zonz even comparable to Huddy. As much as Fuller can be praised ..... come on .... really? He would never have got off the bench. That is the nature of the game. My late FIL never stopped rattling on about his heros - Franklin, Stan, Soo ......
Fuller would waltz into any side that compares to greenhoff and Hudson mate It’s because he’s recent, in 10/20 years time he’ll be spoken of in the same breath I watched the seventies teams as a kid, so no real objectivity, they were all Gods! While Jimmy Greenhoff was my hero (and most kids I knew), Huddy made the game look easy. Always seem to have time and space and so cool. I also agree that Ricardo Fuller is the best player I've seen at Stoke since those days. Bojan was talented but fleeting, N'Zonzi got better and better - his performance against Liverpool was a midfield masterclass. Marko and Shaq were the kind of players I never thought I would see in a Stoke shirt, but Ric became my new Jimmy! Still think he was under rated. So much natural ability - strength, pace, ball control - he was a threat from anywhere on the pitch. Great finisher and I didn't realise how good in the air he was until we got to the Prem. A genuine football maverick. Sometimes those that tell me how terrible Pulis's football was make me smile - ironicly he gave us the Great Entertainer. The other modern day player in that bracket is Ryan Shawcross, already a Stoke City legend regardless of what ever else he achieves.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 8, 2019 10:12:18 GMT
Here we go again... On the face of it, this looks to me like a great appointment, especially given the "backs to the wall" situation we found ourselves in. The prospect of Pardew or Adkins seemed underwhelming. But, I thought that both Rowett and Jones were decent appointments too, so it's clearly going to be a tough job. My only concern would be that you take a big chance taking a bloke out of an international set up with a group of motivated players who trust him. Look at Chris Coleman Success at Wales, failure at Sunderland. Making all the right noises too about wanting to get stuck in straight away - as supporters, just what you want to hear. I don't know much about Michael O'Neil, but on first impression, he strikes me as a similar personality to Gareth Southgate. Intelligent and understated. He certainly got NI punching well above their weight. As usual, I've got a good feeling about this one. Welcome to Stoke City and Good Luck Michael. We'll be with you every step along the way.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 10, 2019 10:17:17 GMT
I didn't say that at all. I am simply saying that in those first few glimpses, it looked as though the club had pulled off a master stroke. Anybody who saw Gianelli Imbula play against us for Porto, or saw him hit the ground absolutely running in those first couple of games for us (Chelsea, Watford) would have thought we had a fantastic player on our hands.Please tell me where I "agree" that signing a footballer after watching him once in a pre-season friendly at any price is a good idea? I think you've done it again... Juan Sebastian Veron, Angel di Maria, Fernando Torres, Denis Bergkamp - football is littered with examples of fantastic players who flopped at certain clubs for some reason. As I said, bringing a player into a new club is not an exact science, and a club like Stoke City has to try to find the gems at lower fees and wages than the rich clubs. The point remains, as several others have noted, that to simply to dismiss MH after he gave us arguably the best and most exciting period in over 150 years of league football seems narrow minded. I feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy that golden period in the club's history and recognise Mark Hughes's part in it. I think you need to re-read this thread again and then re-evaluate what you're accusing me of. "Anybody who saw Gianelli Imbula play against us for Porto" That's exactly what Mark Hughes thought when he saw him play and then decided to blow 18 million pounds on him. That's the mindset of an absolute imbecile, not a premier league manager. "and a club like Stoke City has to try to find the gems at lower fees and wages than the rich clubs." Exactly, and that's the reason why Mark Hughes was a failure for us in the end because he couldnt do this, and not only could he not do it, he fucked it up on the grandest of grand scales and set this club back years. You may still fawn over the good times and still hold Mark Hughes in high esteem, and I can understand why people still look back at those times with fond memories because at times we were a joy to watch, but for me it wasn't worth the absolute mess he created and left us in, and I will never be able to forgive the way he completely neglected his duties. I'm not accusing you of anything - I just think you're focusing completely on the negatives. I'm wasting my time with this argument. Do you honestly believe that's how Hughes decided to buy him? If you do, you're either on a wind up or, with as much respect as the phrase can muster, you must be a fool. I don't know how the process works, but I would be fairly certain he would have been watched again and MH would have consulted contacts in the game and at the club. The man is a professional football manager with years of experience in the game. How do you know he hadn't seen him play before and hadn't been monitoring him for some time? And like I said, when we saw him play, his talent was obvious. There was something that didn't work out in the move that we couldn't have predicted. It didn't work out with Imbula, it did with Arnautovic. Anyway, I can see I'm not going to win you over anytime soon. I like watching and supporting Stoke and I guess over my lifetime I've learned to enjoy the ups and accept that, with Stoke City, there will probably be more downs than ups.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 9, 2019 16:18:43 GMT
Like I said, not a perfect science. Anybody who saw Gianelli Imbula play against us for Porto, or saw him hit the ground absolutely running in those first couple of games for us (Chelsea, Watford) would have thought we had a fantastic player on our hands. At the time, Pogba had been signed for £80 odd million - I genuinely thought we had a bargain. Trouble is, you sign a human being, not a machine. Sometimes it just doesn't work out, for all kinds of personal reasons. There is no way that anybody at the football club expected the outcomes on those three expensive signings. In terms of Premier League money, they were a relatively low risk, high reward gambles. For all three to fail so badly was certainly catastrophic for a club like Stoke. As for relegation, for what it's worth, I suspect he would probably have kept us up. But that of course is speculation and purely a personal opinion. You're openly agreeing that signing a footballer for £18 million, after watching him once in a pre season friendly against us was a good idea. And I'm the one who's made a twat of myself I didn't say that at all. I am simply saying that in those first few glimpses, it looked as though the club had pulled off a master stroke. Anybody who saw Gianelli Imbula play against us for Porto, or saw him hit the ground absolutely running in those first couple of games for us (Chelsea, Watford) would have thought we had a fantastic player on our hands.Please tell me where I "agree" that signing a footballer after watching him once in a pre-season friendly at any price is a good idea? I think you've done it again... Juan Sebastian Veron, Angel di Maria, Fernando Torres, Denis Bergkamp - football is littered with examples of fantastic players who flopped at certain clubs for some reason. As I said, bringing a player into a new club is not an exact science, and a club like Stoke City has to try to find the gems at lower fees and wages than the rich clubs. The point remains, as several others have noted, that to simply to dismiss MH after he gave us arguably the best and most exciting period in over 150 years of league football seems narrow minded. I feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy that golden period in the club's history and recognise Mark Hughes's part in it.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 9, 2019 10:14:44 GMT
Unfortunately mate, you've made a bit of a twat of yourself there. Football management ain't a perfect science, but for 3 years Mark Hughes brought fantastic players, delivered amazing results and gave me some of the best memories I've had supporting Stoke since the first game I went to in 1972. If you want to focus on the negatives, that's fine by me. I prefer to remember the thrilling, beautiful football played by NZonzi, Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnautovic, and thrashing Liverpool, Manchester City and Manchester United. Good luck Mark, and thanks for the memories. All valid points but it's only half the story. For all of the good that Mark Hughes delivered he is also hugely culpable for the shocking slide into the position we find ourselves now. Half of me is grateful for him spearheading the greatest footballing side I've seen at Stoke in my lifetime but equally half of me remembers the thorough embarrassment of seeing us capitulate to repeated 4 or 5 goal drubbings. I'm not sure how to feel about Hughes but I can understand why there's still large sections of the support that consider him to be a failure. Until we cast off the flops he signed for record fees there will still be a majority that hold him to task for our relegation. Like I said, not a perfect science. Anybody who saw Gianelli Imbula play against us for Porto, or saw him hit the ground absolutely running in those first couple of games for us (Chelsea, Watford) would have thought we had a fantastic player on our hands. At the time, Pogba had been signed for £80 odd million - I genuinely thought we had a bargain. Trouble is, you sign a human being, not a machine. Sometimes it just doesn't work out, for all kinds of personal reasons. There is no way that anybody at the football club expected the outcomes on those three expensive signings. In terms of Premier League money, they were a relatively low risk, high reward gambles. For all three to fail so badly was certainly catastrophic for a club like Stoke. As for relegation, for what it's worth, I suspect he would probably have kept us up. But that of course is speculation and purely a personal opinion.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 9, 2019 8:08:54 GMT
I think it’s a good move for them and Hughes, he can do wonders when working on a budget and he’ll get a lot of respect from the players at this level. His stock may have fallen significantly in the past few years but he’s far from finished as a manager. Good luck to him. How the fuck can you wish that twat good luck? Unfortunately mate, you've made a bit of a twat of yourself there. Football management ain't a perfect science, but for 3 years Mark Hughes brought fantastic players, delivered amazing results and gave me some of the best memories I've had supporting Stoke since the first game I went to in 1972. If you want to focus on the negatives, that's fine by me. I prefer to remember the thrilling, beautiful football played by NZonzi, Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnautovic, and thrashing Liverpool, Manchester City and Manchester United. Good luck Mark, and thanks for the memories.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 7, 2019 14:04:24 GMT
You guys always write a lot of sense. I've been torn about this too. We just can't look at getting rid of NJ in isolation - it has to be viewed with his replacement. As we all know, the problem wasn't sacking MH, but ultimately how we replaced him. I am one of those who desperately want him to succeed. It feels like a fresh start for the club and I hoped it might be like "regime change". His passion and enthusiasm is brilliant, and you actually get caught up in it listening to him. It meant a hell of a lot to him on Saturday. I agree about his signings though. From what I've seen, Cousins isn't first team ready, and the Smith, Ward, Davis, Lyndsay signings are strange. It's also like he's stumbled onto this team and formation. I actually think the squad is too big. I'm not sure he knows what to do with players like Woods, Ince and now even McClean. It still looks a mess, but if the "first team" + subs that we saw on Saturday keep that level of performance up, anything could happen this season. I've always said, this group of players should fear no team in this league. I think they have to stick with him, as you have said, almost on a game by game basis. Vive la revolution! That's the thing with the club right now. The recruitment is just baffling. Jones originally said he wanted a "lean" squad and also players who were young and hungry. Well we now have an even more bloated payroll. We have brought in players that just do not make much sense in many cases and are certainly not "young and hungry". So either Jones was full of crap or the issue is still in the front office and board room (which is honestly what I believe). Of course one would think Jones sanctioned these signings, so that falls at some level to him as well. So I am not sure bringing in a new manager is going to do much good. If we do we need someone with a big personality who will put his foot down on any and all issues dealing with the squad and the front office. In his defence, I'm pretty sure he didn't expect to have Butland, Ndiaye and possibly Allen or Etebo in his first team squad. When he came, he also talked about "the process". The kangaroo speech. He would describe the type of player he wanted, and the recruitment team would give him a shortlist which met that criteria. It still looks a bit random though. Looks like he's sticking with Edwards despite spending £4m on Smith, while his £9m man Vokes is behind the freebies Gregory & Hogan. He obviously knew Cousins having worked with him as a youngster, but in fairness he looks out of his depth. I would feel more confident in him as a coach/motivator if we were better at scouting the right kind of player.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 7, 2019 12:46:21 GMT
His signings make the decision for me. They have been appalling, demonstrable by his reluctance to play most of them. If he did manage to save us from relegation, would you want him to be given more money to spend next summer? No. I can't mount any defence of him at all beyond those 90 minutes! But would you still get rid if we could only, for example, attract a Michael O'Neill? You guys always write a lot of sense. I've been torn about this too. We just can't look at getting rid of NJ in isolation - it has to be viewed with his replacement. As we all know, the problem wasn't sacking MH, but ultimately how we replaced him. I am one of those who desperately want him to succeed. It feels like a fresh start for the club and I hoped it might be like "regime change". His passion and enthusiasm is brilliant, and you actually get caught up in it listening to him. It meant a hell of a lot to him on Saturday. I agree about his signings though. From what I've seen, Cousins isn't first team ready, and the Smith, Ward, Davis, Lyndsay signings are strange. It's also like he's stumbled onto this team and formation. I actually think the squad is too big. I'm not sure he knows what to do with players like Woods, Ince and now even McClean. It still looks a mess, but if the "first team" + subs that we saw on Saturday keep that level of performance up, anything could happen this season. I've always said, this group of players should fear no team in this league. I think they have to stick with him, as you have said, almost on a game by game basis. Vive la revolution!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 4, 2019 9:21:07 GMT
Part of our demise is our supporters. For 63 years I’ve grown accustomed to their negative shite. So a team with shawcross pieters Badou etebo imbula and Bojan is worse than what we’ve got? Fuck off . You lot would make a vicar swear. Support? You ain’t got a clue With respect, this shows the scale of the challenge he has faced. Butland clearly thought he would be sold, Badou and possibly Etebo probably wanted to be sold and were in the African Nations Cup, Imbula never wants to set foot in Stoke again in his life, I guess there was a pressure to get Bojan, Pieters & Bauer off the wage bill and unfortunately Ryan Shawcross broke his leg. Berahino, Wimmer and even Afobe just weren't delivering. He's ended up with an inflated squad and certain players deeply unhappy they are not involved. It's a challenge for any manager.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 2, 2019 11:24:16 GMT
When you think about it’s a damn shame. We hired a young inexperienced manager with bags of potential he spoke well of the club, his sims etc were well thought out and we all really hoped and thought he would steady the ship and do well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time of Rowett we were linked with another young inexperienced manager with bags of potential in Potter and at Swansea it worked out better for him. Doesn’t excuse the players and stuff going on behind the scenes but you can tell jones believed he could do it and us fans did get behind him. It’s done now because you can’t come back from the losing streak he’s been on. Maybe he is not good enough or maybe all the other stuff just took its toll and added to his inexperience. He is probably the worse we’ve had in years but imo his attitude seemed spot on and strange team selection and formations aside he genuinely tried. Great post and how I feel too. It felt like a Brave New World. My reading of it is that the squad ending up bigger than he anticipated and has upset the apple cart. I don't think he planned for a screwed up Jack or Badou, possibly even Joe Allen and Peter Etebo. That has meant no room for Davies and Woods etc. Having said that, last night's selection was bizarre. There must now be a list of players hoping for a new start with somebody else in charge. It seems like it has all got too much and he's lost his confidence too. It would be typical of Stoke for Nathan to be reborn and achieve great things - at another club.
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