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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 1, 2024 10:57:18 GMT
It's absolutely despicable what was chanted, I wasn't at the game but how many people roughly are we talking that were involved in this disgusting behaviour? It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. |
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Post by GallysGuitar on Nov 1, 2024 10:59:19 GMT
Either way, I think it would be a nice gesture to sing his old song in the reverse fixture when his name is read out.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2024 11:02:43 GMT
It's absolutely despicable what was chanted, I wasn't at the game but how many people roughly are we talking that were involved in this disgusting behaviour? It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. As I say it's despicable but I think the numbers are important. If it was one or two mouth breathers they need identifying and banning for life but unfortunately you get these types of scumbags in any large gatherings, if it was 50/100/200 or whatever then I genuinely despair......... |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Nov 1, 2024 11:31:09 GMT
It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. As I say it's despicable but I think the numbers are important. If it was one or two mouth breathers they need identifying and banning for life but unfortunately you get these types of scumbags in any large gatherings, if it was 50/100/200 or whatever then I genuinely despair......... Plenty of people have been on here and said they’ve heard nothing, I certainly didn’t. Did anybody actually hear anything? well nobody has said they’ve actually heard this save one unsubstantiated tweet. |
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 1, 2024 11:33:30 GMT
It's absolutely despicable what was chanted, I wasn't at the game but how many people roughly are we talking that were involved in this disgusting behaviour? It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. I am assuming that more than 1 person reported it to the club otherwise I think it would be strange for the club to make a statement about it. I know of one person who reported it having been there, and the reply (which was within 1 hour) stated that the club were aware of the chants and were going to make an official statement about it, which they did. So on that basis, they must have had other complaints. It's probably difficult to establish exactly how many were involved, it seems like a very small amount based on evidence so far, which is some encouraging news! |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 1, 2024 11:34:12 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. By definition it wasn't. Two of the definitions of 'tragedy' in my dictionary is "any sad story or turn of events; anything with death or killing in it" so I would think that the unexpected death of Tye's father at a relatively young age comes within that definition. So-called "tragedy chanting" in football referring to Munich, Hillsborough, Istambul is deplored because it's mocking people who have suffered loss through the unexpected death of family, friends and fellow fans of their club. To mock Tye about the loss of his father, ( if it occurred) is pretty similar in my view and equally deplorable, whether or not you define his loss as a tragedy. |
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Post by bassmaster on Nov 1, 2024 11:37:42 GMT
Can I ask why you don't think tragedy chanting deserves a lifetime ban? If not this, what does? I will comment in general terms. Clubs often say in relation to deplorable behaviour that the perpetrators if identified will be banned for life. The problem is that it does nothing to alter the attitudes or beliefs which lead to the behaviour - just transfers it outside football to other environments, including possibly other spectator sports. It gives the offender nowhere to go and no incentive to alter. If say a teenager is so banned, does anyone believe that in say 50 years time, he/she would be prevented from taking their grandchildren to a game, because of something stupid and unpleasant they shouted half a century before ? I'm in favour of appropriate restorative justice - in this case it might be, say, writing an apology to Tye, or even being required to deliver it in person, and some community work with bereaved families. A fixed term ban from games might be part of that but the main thing is for them to confront and address their own behaviour. The other argument is that lifetime bans act as a deterrent to others. I'm not convinced that is the case because people think they won't be identified and caught. Just a personal view. RJ as an approach is interesting but fundamentally flawed. It is a perpetrator led process. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 1, 2024 11:45:08 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. Both of my parents are dead, it's part of life and we all die eventually. I kept on working through necessity, why should it be any different? Of course that is true but I'm not quite sure what point you are making in the context of this thread ? Tye has kept on working. Unlike the large majority of people part of his work is undertaken in front of tens of thousands of people. The discussion is about the inappropriateness of some of those people ( thankfully only a very small number at most by the sound of things) mocking his personal loss. |
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 1, 2024 11:53:06 GMT
It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. I am assuming that more than 1 person reported it to the club otherwise I think it would be strange for the club to make a statement about it. I know of one person whom reported it having been there, and the reply (which was within 1 hour) stated that the club were aware of the chants and were going to make an official statement about it, which they did. So on that basis, they must have had other complaints. It's probably difficult to establish exactly how many were involved, it seems like a very small amount based on evidence so far, which is some encouraging news! The tweet that reported it has 76,000 views so the club were always likely to respond to it. I’d imagine a number of people reported the incident off the back of seeing the tweet rather than actually being there and hearing it. Either way, as you say it’s pretty obvious it was a tiny minority responsible. |
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Post by vidigoals on Nov 1, 2024 12:11:32 GMT
Still yet to find a single other person who heard this.
The quote tweets are all similar people in that away end asking if anybody else heard it, the comments all the same, nobody did.
I had mates spread across the away end on Saturday and not one of them heard anything like it either.
The traction it's gained is remarkable considering it's come from the source that it did.
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Post by khyberstokie1 on Nov 1, 2024 12:31:13 GMT
As mentioned earlier none of my Blades supporting step family - two of whom sit above the away fans heard anything re the unacceptable chanting and they stayed in the ground to watch the tribute to George Baldock by their players.
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Post by flea79 on Nov 1, 2024 12:43:24 GMT
Either way, I think it would be a nice gesture to sing his old song in the reverse fixture when his name is read out. i think not |
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Post by skip on Nov 1, 2024 12:58:45 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. Both of my parents are dead, it's part of life and we all die eventually. I kept on working through necessity, why should it be any different? Because when you went to work after the death of a parent, you didn't have 3,000 people watching your every move and a cluster of them calling you a wanker into the bargain. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 1, 2024 14:49:45 GMT
I will comment in general terms. Clubs often say in relation to deplorable behaviour that the perpetrators if identified will be banned for life. The problem is that it does nothing to alter the attitudes or beliefs which lead to the behaviour - just transfers it outside football to other environments, including possibly other spectator sports. It gives the offender nowhere to go and no incentive to alter. If say a teenager is so banned, does anyone believe that in say 50 years time, he/she would be prevented from taking their grandchildren to a game, because of something stupid and unpleasant they shouted half a century before ? I'm in favour of appropriate restorative justice - in this case it might be, say, writing an apology to Tye, or even being required to deliver it in person, and some community work with bereaved families. A fixed term ban from games might be part of that but the main thing is for them to confront and address their own behaviour. The other argument is that lifetime bans act as a deterrent to others. I'm not convinced that is the case because people think they won't be identified and caught. Just a personal view. RJ as an approach is interesting but fundamentally flawed. It is a perpetrator led process. It is perpetrator led in the sense that it is applied to the perpetrator and activated in response to actions of the perpetrator, but I don't see that as any different to other forms of sanction. But it is also often victim focussed which other sanctions often aren't. I don't think the experience of its use supports the conclusion that it's fundamentally flawed. What matters is whether it works. When properly designed and applied it can be very effective - both in a football and other settings. Some clubs also use good behaviour contracts which the perpetrator signs, which can also be effective. |
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Post by wakeypotter on Nov 1, 2024 15:38:04 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. Both of my parents are dead, it's part of life and we all die eventually. I kept on working through necessity, why should it be any different? For someone who has lost both parents you have a lack of understanding. It’s bad enough losing a parent in your case 2, the last thing you need is a load of people calling you a wanker for no reason and don’t forget he’s a young lad also. |
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 1, 2024 16:46:20 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. By definition it wasn't. Having your father die young due to the shit NHS sounds like a personal tragedy to me. |
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 1, 2024 16:48:03 GMT
Both of my parents are dead, it's part of life and we all die eventually. I kept on working through necessity, why should it be any different? Because when you went to work after the death of a parent, you didn't have 3,000 people watching your every move and a cluster of them calling you a wanker into the bargain. By the sounds of it, they should have. |
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Post by bassmaster on Nov 1, 2024 17:00:06 GMT
RJ as an approach is interesting but fundamentally flawed. It is a perpetrator led process. It is perpetrator led in the sense that it is applied to the perpetrator and activated in response to actions of the perpetrator, but I don't see that as any different to other forms of sanction. But it is also often victim focussed which other sanctions often aren't. I don't think the experience of its use supports the conclusion that it's fundamentally flawed. What matters is whether it works. When properly designed and applied it can be very effective - both in a football and other settings. Some clubs also use good behaviour contracts which the perpetrator signs, which can also be effective. I can’t go deeply into it unfortunately, so you’ll just have to trust me. When it comes off, it’s the best outcome. Problem is, it very rarely comes off and the main reason being is that it is perpetrator led. I have had years of experience with it, not just anecdotal ‘evidence’. It is fundamentally flawed unfortunately as on paper, it’s a grown up approach. |
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 1, 2024 17:36:29 GMT
I was there and I was disappointed with the "you're a wanker" and "you fat bastard" chants but I most definitely didn't hear the alleged disgusting chant.
To be honest we were that quiet that if it was chanted I would have thought a few would have heard it??
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Post by bunnyscfc on Nov 1, 2024 18:06:35 GMT
I remember being part of a sizeable away at Bradford in 1990. Midway through the game several lads started a deeply unsavoury chant about the then-recent disaster that killed 56 people. The nearby Stokies responded thus: there was some loud shushing, a fair few Paddington Bear stares and one or two no-nonsense shut-the-fuck-ups. Result? They quickly shut the fuck up. No police involvement. No lifetime bans. No performative outrage. Who says the past was so bad, eh? Crikey, I remember that day. Whilst it may or may not have been better 'back in the day', the away following often self-policed, which meant gobshites got told what the expected standards were. I remember some young Stokies singing about Aberfan at Swansea, and a group of our lads left them in no uncertain terms what would happen if it continued. I'm a lover not a fighter, but I'm also huma - and if folk start being sub-human then they deserve to be told. That often did the trick. |
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Nov 1, 2024 21:48:41 GMT
So no one heard it. People at the game spread across different seats. I mean if 1 person shouted it then it's a disgrace but on them not on the club and the fanbase. This is the problem with things gathering traction from a tweet that was probably better off not tweeted. A chant, that nobody heard which was probably one person without a brain talking or shouting shit.
If it was a chant people would have heard it. There is no way the regular away game goer on here is going try and cover up for it.
Social media at it's finest.
No audio evidence played on talk sport or anywhere else.
Dragging the fans name through the mud for what?
Honestly man. I'm first to denounce idiots but this whole thing is ridiculous.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Nov 1, 2024 23:48:13 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. Both of my parents are dead, it's part of life and we all die eventually. I kept on working through necessity, why should it be any different? Ok. Good for you. It’s not a dick measuring competition. |
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Nov 1, 2024 23:54:10 GMT
It was a tragedy to Tyrese. By definition it wasn't. From whose perspective, yours? |
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 3, 2024 1:42:38 GMT
It's absolutely despicable what was chanted, I wasn't at the game but how many people roughly are we talking that were involved in this disgusting behaviour? It appears that one person was chanting it and only one person heard it. And yet Talk Sport - Simon Jordan uses this to slate our whole fanbase.Talk Sport are a joke and so is Simon Jordan. That cunts always got something ridiculous to say. He should be held accountable. Basically slander |
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Post by wazbagsbro on Nov 3, 2024 8:04:34 GMT
I've been going Stoke games since early 80s. There was distasteful chanting then ,and in the 90s, 00s ect ect.
The difference now is all the people that don't like it have a way of moaning about it to eachother on here..apparently alot of you want young Stokies banned for blocking isles, throwing beer, taking cocaine and now chanting distasteful songs. Stoke fans have changed since 80s sadly.
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Post by alsager58 on Nov 3, 2024 23:39:35 GMT
So Wazbag in the message above you are saying that the quoted is now acceptable inside a football ground, if so please justify. Secondly the message above from scfcnicholas please can you confirm on what grounds you are calling for slander ? Your use of the english language describing Talksport and a highly intelligent broadcaster in Simon Jordan is very disappointing, obviously highlighting that you cannot express yourself in an intelligent manner.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Nov 4, 2024 1:18:31 GMT
So Wazbag in the message above you are saying that the quoted is now acceptable inside a football ground, if so please justify. Secondly the message above from scfcnicholas please can you confirm on what grounds you are calling for slander ? Your use of the english language describing Talksport and a highly intelligent broadcaster in Simon Jordan is very disappointing, obviously highlighting that you cannot express yourself in an intelligent manner. Can you tell me, what did you hear at Bramall Lane? |
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 4, 2024 5:11:10 GMT
So Wazbag in the message above you are saying that the quoted is now acceptable inside a football ground, if so please justify. Secondly the message above from scfcnicholas please can you confirm on what grounds you are calling for slander ? Your use of the english language describing Talksport and a highly intelligent broadcaster in Simon Jordan is very disappointing, obviously highlighting that you cannot express yourself in an intelligent manner. Simon Jordan is criticising our whole fan base on the basis of total hearsay, he’s got nothing to substantiate what he’s saying and that amounts to slander. He is an intelligent bloke but he’s antagonistic and condescending. Talksport is not reputable |
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Post by wazbagsbro on Nov 5, 2024 1:50:40 GMT
So Wazbag in the message above you are saying that the quoted is now acceptable inside a football ground, if so please justify. Secondly the message above from scfcnicholas please can you confirm on what grounds you are calling for slander ? Your use of the english language describing Talksport and a highly intelligent broadcaster in Simon Jordan is very disappointing, obviously highlighting that you cannot express yourself in an intelligent manner. Don't put words in my mouth because your annoyed. I didn't say acceptable but inevitable. |
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Post by Scouse on Nov 5, 2024 9:21:17 GMT
I've been going Stoke games since early 80s. There was distasteful chanting then ,and in the 90s, 00s ect ect. The difference now is all the people that don't like it have a way of moaning about it to eachother on here..apparently alot of you want young Stokies banned for blocking isles, throwing beer, taking cocaine and now chanting distasteful songs. Stoke fans have changed since 80s sadly. Waz / others A couple of points .. I too have been going since the 80s ..earlier actually , first game 70 , regular home 74/5 away 75/6 ,like many I’ve sang disgraceful Munich songs back then ..today they’d be specifically unlawful , here’s my mitigation My pitiful weak defence is , I didn’t know any better ( yet I knew right from wrong in just about everything else I did in life , so that’s a very weak position ) , importantly nobody told me to stop , including my peers at football , society in general or the law ..thankfully that changed , people now get very clear signals that what they’re doing is not only distasteful , it’s unlawful football back then was a very different sport , especially if you were in your youth , it was very , very tribal and violent both on and off the pitch ..the threat of violence back then , particular after the game wasnt ‘banter’ ..whatever that modern excuse is ..it was real , very real ..segregation occurred during my time such was the disorder on terraces , when segregation started and people sang ‘you’re going to get your F’. head kicked in , or we’ll see you all outside.. many meant it and when the gates opened they’d indeed be waiting outside to do just that ..no surprise then that at rougher places you hurled less abuse ..though some still took the attitude if you’re going to get thumped outside you might as well get thumped for something more annoying than just a different coloured scarf ..personally I seldom wore colours even back then Thousands , not just families left the game due to both organised and cowardly FV ,and the behaviour in general at games , our followings could be pretty shit or hit and miss at many places , even before organised FV got a hold , I know cos I was at everyone of them , sure the likes of Derby saw huge turnouts , but a few weeks later at say Birmingham or similar at places with a rep and our followings dropped off the cliff .. it wasn’t until relegation and promotion in the late 70s that our followings grew a little more dependable ..still anywhere. rough and people would melt ..Saturday flu wasn’t just a Stoke phenomenon, but it was very prevalent amongst our support Some of us stuck around and continued to go to some very dangerous fixtures with some tiny followings ..’save the game’ , we were too concerned saving our own knocks or lives at times , but slowly , partly due to better law enforcement ( including several two step forward one step back moments ) Heysel , Hboro , Bradford and several murders in or around football taught most fans that things had to change ..slowly but surely they did ..sadly like fashion in the potteries , just as organised FV was dieing out at major clubs , we caught that particular disease, to our shame it brought with it the final solution , ID cards from 2003 -2008 ..ironically it was the rave scene and drugs ( Es ) that did as much as CCTV and anything else to finally wipe out the disease Promotion to the prem finally , thankfully gentrified our support a little and for the first time in decades we didn’t need huge schemes to attract family groups to the game ..invariably with relegation some people , often the very ones any club needs most , those with spare money, drop off , not because of the pressure of affordability, their pressure isn’t money , but the free time to spend it..so inevitably there’s a risk of our support receding back into its old ways.. the covid years were a disaster for many losing loved ones , but it was also a disaster for football and the youth , footballs return saw the emergence and propensity for taking lemo , marching powder , coke call it what you want , it’s a killer of people and it’s a killer and destroyer of people and it’s a killer of the game if left unchecked .Due to falling prices and its increasingly ease of availability ..it’s use at football has increased off the scale ..as has many peoples attitude of live for the now and themselves and f the rest… in days gone by of terracing you could more easily get out the way of the drunk , the troublemaker , the undesirable etc ..with sellout seating that’s much , much harder ..so for many there’s a risk of football drifting back to the bad old days ..no surprise then that some raise their objections in the safer environment of a message board than at the game were they risk getting a clump or worse by a wide eyed coke head or his mates as they all pile on You talk about moaning about it on here as if that’s a bad thing ..instead see it as part of the modern day peer pressure , in my experience people are far better learning from their peers what’s acceptable and what isn’t , than having the law tell you .. tragedy chanting isn’t just distasteful it’s now specifically illegal , a specific crime , for which if found guilty you’ll end up with a criminal conviction , surely if just one person reads this thread and stops to think of the consequences then is that a bad thing .. football we all know is an emotional sport , we also know people with all kinds of ideas of what’s acceptable and what isn’t watch it ..and we all know some light the fuse and step back , leaving the fall guy to cop the charge .is it so wrong to try to warn the fall guy , .surely the starting position for acceptable behaviour doesn’t have to be a race to the bottom.. Apologies for the ramble and genuinely not a pop at you par-se people need to learn from the mistakes of those that went before them , not repeat those same mistakes .the bad days were 40-50 years ago ..if man didn’t learn from its mistakes or develop , we still be living in caves , society , people and football fans are better than that .. and as footie fans Stoke should be leading the way , not being dragged along on the bottom www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/lifelong-manchester-united-fan-given-football-banning-order-tragedy-chanting |
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