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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 16, 2024 13:38:28 GMT
You can be involved in something and have a different perception and recollection of it from your own view due to the stress and mental toll the incident takes. There’s lots of work and studies on perceptual distortion around this which can explain differences. It’s all about how the brain reacts and deals with stress and fear. Spot on. It’s far easier for the armchair quarterbacks to criticise when they’ve never had to deal with that level of threat. That really isn't the point though is it? There is clearly a discrepancy in the officer's report of the incident and the video footage of the incident. It had to go to trial and it is up to a jury to decide on the outcome and whether there are any mitigating circumstances, including perceptional distortion, and a judge to guide the jury on points of law in relation to the evidence presented. The police and the CPS cannot prejudge the outcome without the matter going to trail. If they did that effectively they are saying that the rule of law does not apply to this situation and the police can effectively operate a shoot on sight policy based on a blanket defence of perceptional distortion. This isn't a matter for armchair quarter backs to decide. It is a matter for a jury to decide. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 16, 2024 13:53:40 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC
Why were the police following this bloke...?
Whats his background...?
You dont just 'get followed' for nothing...
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 16, 2024 14:02:54 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... And if they had good reason to follow them that in itself is sufficient reason to shoot them? Isn't this the plot line for a Judge Dread movie? |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 16, 2024 14:10:43 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... And if they had good reason to follow them that in itself is sufficient reason to shoot them? Isn't this the plot line for a Judge Dread movie? That wasnt the question you valve...... Cant you just give a simple answer...? I asked 2 very simple questions and you start spouting shyte.....again. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 16, 2024 14:14:04 GMT
And if they had good reason to follow them that in itself is sufficient reason to shoot them? Isn't this the plot line for a Judge Dread movie? That wasnt the question you valve...... Cant you just give a simple answer...? I asked 2 very simple questions and you start spouting shyte.....again. Wow. Sensitive. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 16, 2024 15:27:14 GMT
Spot on. It’s far easier for the armchair quarterbacks to criticise when they’ve never had to deal with that level of threat. That really isn't the point though is it? There is clearly a discrepancy in the officer's report of the incident and the video footage of the incident. It had to go to trial and it is up to a jury to decide on the outcome and whether there are any mitigating circumstances, including perceptional distortion, and a judge to guide the jury on points of law in relation to the evidence presented. The police and the CPS cannot prejudge the outcome without the matter going to trail. If they did that effectively they are saying that the rule of law does not apply to this situation and the police can effectively operate a shoot on sight policy based on a blanket defence of perceptional distortion. This isn't a matter for armchair quarter backs to decide. It is a matter for a jury to decide. Last 2 lines are spot on. In relation to the rest it’s speculation and up to the prosecution and defence to muddy the waters. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 16, 2024 18:02:59 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... The car number plate has been flagged as having been involved in a shooting incident in Brixton the previous evening The Police were following the car not Chris Kaba the Police had no idea who was driving the car so his background has no relevance For the record no weapon was found in the car. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 16, 2024 22:14:50 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... The car number plate has been flagged as having been involved in a shooting incident in Brixton the previous evening The Police were following the car not Chris Kaba the Police had no idea who was driving the car so his background has no relevance For the record no weapon was found in the car. Isn’t the car being involved in a shooting the previous night enough to raise serious concerns about the occupant even if they didn’t know who he was? Add to that the fact that when the vehicle was stopped the driver initially drove in a reckless manner which was potentially endangering the lives of officers. Even without knowing who the driver was the vehicle being linked to a shooting and the manner of the driving would suggest it wasn’t Mary Poppins at the wheel. In relation to the vehicle being stationary. There’s a couple of key points that are pretty relevant - How long was the vehicle stationary? There’s a huge difference between say 5 and 30 seconds. - Did the driver actually turn the engine off? If he didn’t he’s still in control of the vehicle even if it wasn’t moving. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3wkjwwv08o |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2024 0:21:38 GMT
The car number plate has been flagged as having been involved in a shooting incident in Brixton the previous evening The Police were following the car not Chris Kaba the Police had no idea who was driving the car so his background has no relevance For the record no weapon was found in the car. Isn’t the car being involved in a shooting the previous night enough to raise serious concerns about the occupant even if they didn’t know who he was? It is irrelevant as it isn't germane to when the shooting occurred.
Also it wasn't necessarily involved in a shooting, the Police briefing stated the car was "potentially" associated with a firearm incident . I have yet to see it suggested that Kaba was driving the car other than when he was shotDean Brown (IOPC Lead Investigator ) told the court: “A briefing was provided to officers prior to their shifts on 5 September in which the Audi was brought to their attention as being potentially associated with the firearm incident from the previous day. Mr Kaba’s name was not included in this briefing.”Add to that the fact that when the vehicle was stopped the driver initially drove in a reckless manner which was potentially endangering the lives of officers. This in a nutshell is the whole basis of the case. It is the prosecutions contention that once Kaba's vehicle had become boxed in he made attempts to move forward/backwards but at speeds between 8 and 12 mph. I have not seen the defense team dispute these speeds, I may be wrong. At the time Blake shot Kaba the vehicle was stationary according to the prosecution and according to Blake under cross examination and viewing the video evidence said "he didn't know"
In the evidence presented so far the only thing the Jury need to consider in a Murder charge in which the only defense is self defense, at the precise time Blake shot Kaba did the vehicle (the weapon) pose a danger to Blake and/or his colleagues Even without knowing who the driver was the vehicle being linked to a shooting and the manner of the driving would suggest it wasn’t Mary Poppins at the wheel. I would agree that the fact Kaba didn't willingly cooperate would have heightened the Police sense of urgency to incapacitate the vehicle and the Police had no knowledge of who was behind the wheel. But to repeat the only thing the Jury have to consider in a Murder Trial is at the precise time Blake fired the shot was it self defense, it is the only defense against a Murder charge. Was the vehicle (the weapon) posing a danger to Blake and/or his colleagues In relation to the vehicle being stationary. There’s a couple of key points that are pretty relevant - How long was the vehicle stationary? I have no idea I'm quite sure the Jury know There’s a huge difference between say 5 and 30 seconds. Again I have no idea - Did the driver actually turn the engine off? I doubt itIf he didn’t he’s still in control of the vehicle even if it wasn’t moving. Only to the extent the vehicle can move forwards/backwards given the restraint of the Police Vehicles and at what speed
I've said before, my opinion and it's only my opinion, is that Blake didn't intend to Murder Kaba, but in Law the only Defense against Murder is self defense. On the evidence presented so far in defense I find it difficult to reconcile that Blake and/or his colleagues were in imminent mortal danger, with the caveat i haven't seen the video footage. Kaba's actions and obstinacy if you wish in not cooperating with the Police are not a defense to a Murder charge. Nor is the possibility that Blake suffered from "Perpetual Distortion" due to the events that unfolded during that fateful evening. As the case is currently presented Blake shot Kaba because he feared for his and/or his colleagues safety because of the threat from the vehicle (the weapon) . That is the only Black and White decision the Jury can deliberate, as it stands. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 17, 2024 7:13:18 GMT
Isn’t the car being involved in a shooting the previous night enough to raise serious concerns about the occupant even if they didn’t know who he was? It is irrelevant as it isn't germane to when the shooting occurred.
Also it wasn't necessarily involved in a shooting, the Police briefing stated the car was "potentially" associated with a firearm incident . I have yet to see it suggested that Kaba was driving the car other than when he was shotDean Brown (IOPC Lead Investigator ) told the court: “A briefing was provided to officers prior to their shifts on 5 September in which the Audi was brought to their attention as being potentially associated with the firearm incident from the previous day. Mr Kaba’s name was not included in this briefing.”Add to that the fact that when the vehicle was stopped the driver initially drove in a reckless manner which was potentially endangering the lives of officers. This in a nutshell is the whole basis of the case. It is the prosecutions contention that once Kaba's vehicle had become boxed in he made attempts to move forward/backwards but at speeds between 8 and 12 mph. I have not seen the defense team dispute these speeds, I may be wrong. At the time Blake shot Kaba the vehicle was stationary according to the prosecution and according to Blake under cross examination and viewing the video evidence said "he didn't know"
In the evidence presented so far the only thing the Jury need to consider in a Murder charge in which the only defense is self defense, at the precise time Blake shot Kaba did the vehicle (the weapon) pose a danger to Blake and/or his colleagues Even without knowing who the driver was the vehicle being linked to a shooting and the manner of the driving would suggest it wasn’t Mary Poppins at the wheel. I would agree that the fact Kaba didn't willingly cooperate would have heightened the Police sense of urgency to incapacitate the vehicle and the Police had no knowledge of who was behind the wheel. But to repeat the only thing the Jury have to consider in a Murder Trial is at the precise time Blake fired the shot was it self defense, it is the only defense against a Murder charge. Was the vehicle (the weapon) posing a danger to Blake and/or his colleagues In relation to the vehicle being stationary. There’s a couple of key points that are pretty relevant - How long was the vehicle stationary? I have no idea I'm quite sure the Jury know There’s a huge difference between say 5 and 30 seconds. Again I have no idea - Did the driver actually turn the engine off? I doubt itIf he didn’t he’s still in control of the vehicle even if it wasn’t moving. Only to the extent the vehicle can move forwards/backwards given the restraint of the Police Vehicles and at what speed
I've said before, my opinion and it's only my opinion, is that Blake didn't intend to Murder Kaba, but in Law the only Defense against Murder is self defense. On the evidence presented so far in defense I find it difficult to reconcile that Blake and/or his colleagues were in imminent mortal danger, with the caveat i haven't seen the video footage. Kaba's actions and obstinacy if you wish in not cooperating with the Police are not a defense to a Murder charge. Nor is the possibility that Blake suffered from "Perpetual Distortion" due to the events that unfolded during that fateful evening. As the case is currently presented Blake shot Kaba because he feared for his and/or his colleagues safety because of the threat from the vehicle (the weapon) . That is the only Black and White decision the Jury can deliberate, as it stands. “As the case is currently presented Blake shot Kaba because he feared for his and/or his colleagues safety because of the threat from the vehicle (the weapon) . That is the only Black and White decision the Jury can deliberate, as it stands” As you say this is key to the case. I’m pretty sure that if Kaba had stopped the vehicle calmly and done what officers told him he’d still be here today. As you know I’m a staunch defender of the police and there’s some cases where there is no defence for their actions. In relation to this incident it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me that Martyn Blake should be sent to prison for murder as there’s just to much guessing around what his intentions were which only he genuinely knows. As you say yourself it’s clear that he didn’t get up that morning with the intention of killing someone and even prior to the vehicle stopping I’m sure didn’t have that thought in his mind. For me morally that’s enough to say he’s not a murderer (potentially manslaughter) however it feels like on social media and with certain members of the press they are baying for blood because it’s a white officer and a black male that’s died and will only be happy if he’s found guilty. I only hope that this isn’t turned into a racial incident as I don’t believe it was and that when the vehicle was stopped it was only done so because it was flagged up because it had been involved in a firearms incident the previous night. When the jury do make there decision regardless of what it is I think the impact on policing will be a huge one as will be that on the black community. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2024 8:03:17 GMT
I've said before, my opinion and it's only my opinion, is that Blake didn't intend to Murder Kaba, but in Law the only Defense against Murder is self defense. On the evidence presented so far in defense I find it difficult to reconcile that Blake and/or his colleagues were in imminent mortal danger, with the caveat i haven't seen the video footage. Kaba's actions and obstinacy if you wish in not cooperating with the Police are not a defense to a Murder charge. Nor is the possibility that Blake suffered from "Perpetual Distortion" due to the events that unfolded during that fateful evening. As the case is currently presented Blake shot Kaba because he feared for his and/or his colleagues safety because of the threat from the vehicle (the weapon) . That is the only Black and White decision the Jury can deliberate, as it stands. “As the case is currently presented Blake shot Kaba because he feared for his and/or his colleagues safety because of the threat from the vehicle (the weapon) . That is the only Black and White decision the Jury can deliberate, as it stands” As you say this is key to the case. I’m pretty sure that if Kaba had stopped the vehicle calmly and done what officers told him he’d still be here today. As you know I’m a staunch defender of the police and there’s some cases where there is no defence for their actions. In relation to this incident it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me that Martyn Blake should be sent to prison for murder as there’s just to much guessing around what his intentions were which only he genuinely knows. As you say yourself it’s clear that he didn’t get up that morning with the intention of killing someone and even prior to the vehicle stopping I’m sure didn’t have that thought in his mind. For me morally that’s enough to say he’s not a murderer (potentially manslaughter) however it feels like on social media and with certain members of the press they are baying for blood because it’s a white officer and a black male that’s died and will only be happy if he’s found guilty. I only hope that this isn’t turned into a racial incident as I don’t believe it was and that when the vehicle was stopped it was only done so because it was flagged up because it had been involved in a firearms incident the previous night. When the jury do make there decision regardless of what it is I think the impact on policing will be a huge one as will be that on the black community. I think that's a pretty fair assessment As you know from the off I felt the evidence was pointing to Manslaughter because I don't see premeditation which if convicted can result in anything from suspended sentence to life at the Judges discretion.. If that were the route the defense were taking you would expect psychiatric evidence presented as to how Perceptual Distortion can occur but so far none. In other words a scenario that it was reasonable to conclude Blake felt in danger whether or not there was an actual threat. The Jury can only evaluate what has been presented and the Judge will remind the Jury of that in his summing up. We can't have Police subject to different Laws than everyone else and the only defense for Murder is self defense as no other mitigation can be considered for that charge. |
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Post by flea79 on Oct 17, 2024 8:08:05 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... he was a gang member and involved in all the mischief that these young scallywags get involved in he was driving a car that was linked to a firearms offence the previous evening read into that what you will |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 17, 2024 9:52:02 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... The car number plate has been flagged as having been involved in a shooting incident in Brixton the previous evening The Police were following the car not Chris Kaba the Police had no idea who was driving the car so his background has no relevance For the record no weapon was found in the car. Ok cheers |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 17, 2024 9:53:06 GMT
We have had no coverage of this over here.......so Ive only read whats on here and on the BBC Why were the police following this bloke...? Whats his background...? You dont just 'get followed' for nothing... he was a gang member and involved in all the mischief that these young scallywags get involved in he was driving a car that was linked to a firearms offence the previous evening read into that what you will Right OK cheers |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 18, 2024 19:46:32 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 18, 2024 19:46:40 GMT
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 18, 2024 19:49:30 GMT
I’ll have a listen cheers |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 21, 2024 15:19:53 GMT
Perceptional distortion is fascinating. Until one has encountered and seen what it actually does, it’s hard for some to get their head around. I’ve seen cases where individuals swear on their life about a version of events and are astonished when they see what happened. They are bewildered, question whether what they were now seeing was true and even doubt their own sanity, such is the impact perceptional distortion has.The default for many is to assume they are lying, but it is incredibly difficult to determine that. Doesn’t stop people from forming that opinion though and it’s down to the jury. Will be an interesting outcome either way. If he’s not convicted it will kick off. If he’s convicted there could well be a mass hand in of firearms officer tickets. Won’t play out well whatever the outcome. there can be no winners in this but i think we can all agree that if a copper pointing a firearm at you tells you to stop you should probably stop, not continue the actions you were previously doing, fuck around and find out comes to mind Not guilty |
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Post by flea79 on Oct 21, 2024 15:22:01 GMT
there can be no winners in this but i think we can all agree that if a copper pointing a firearm at you tells you to stop you should probably stop, not continue the actions you were previously doing, fuck around and find out comes to mind Not guilty there will be trouble tonight though, and it wont be from members of the black community who are genuinely aggrieved at the situation and the verdict, it will be agitators (of all varieties) intent on vandalism, looting and general trouble, and the circle continues |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 21, 2024 15:41:11 GMT
I'm not so sure.
The car had been used as a getaway vehicle in a shooting the previous evening before Kaba was shot, and he was hemmed in by police cars in Kirkstall Gardens after an officer recognised its registration number. Mr Kaba drove backwards and forwards trying to ram his way free, which Mr Blake told jurors made him believe one of his colleagues was about to die, and so he opened fire to stop the car. Pretty cut ad dried to me. The Police are paid to uphold the peace and protect and preserve life and property - which Blake was.
Having been found not guilty, the Police watchdog the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) will now consider whether Mr Blake should face a disciplinary hearing (standard practice for the IOPC in all cases of police firearms incidents).
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Post by flea79 on Oct 21, 2024 16:00:16 GMT
I'm not so sure. The car had been used as a getaway vehicle in a shooting the previous evening before Kaba was shot, and he was hemmed in by police cars in Kirkstall Gardens after an officer recognised its registration number. Mr Kaba drove backwards and forwards trying to ram his way free, which Mr Blake told jurors made him believe one of his colleagues was about to die, and so he opened fire to stop the car. Pretty cut ad dried to me. The Police are paid to uphold the peace and protect and preserve life and property - which Blake was. Having been found not guilty, the Police watchdog the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) will now consider whether Mr Blake should face a disciplinary hearing (standard practice for the IOPC in all cases of police firearms incidents). from the reporting in the trial which was obviously not allowed while ongoing other officers confirmed they were of the same opinion as Blake that he needed taking down and one said he was about to when Blake did it, an officer had attempted too open a door and got his glove caught in the handle when the car moved it was a fast paced and dangerous situation that needed diffusing and a gold officer above the officers with guns would have authorised them too shoot in the first place |
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Post by stuammo on Oct 21, 2024 16:00:39 GMT
Didn’t take the jury long to decide that verdict.
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Post by xchpotter on Oct 21, 2024 16:04:31 GMT
Let the riots begin.
I’m expecting loads to be arrested, charged, convicted and jailed by the weekend.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 21, 2024 16:37:37 GMT
Justice. Thankfully the correct decision was made. Hopefully those politicians and press that were so quick to condemn and call Martyn Blake a murderer will be offering a full apology. Starting with this pair x.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1641385478267064323I’m not sure there idea of truth and justice is getting the correct and right decision. Corbyn needs pulling up for this interview. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 21, 2024 16:49:10 GMT
The right decision on the evidence presented as he was overcharged
I doubt there will be unrest but perhaps I'm naive
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Oct 21, 2024 16:55:11 GMT
BLM and Antifa already calling for protests, tonight and at the weekend. Hard to see it passing without trouble but hopefully it does.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 21, 2024 17:06:20 GMT
BLM and Antifa already calling for protests, tonight and at the weekend. Hard to see it passing without trouble but hopefully it does. I’d be very interested to know what part of the evidence put in front of the court that those looking for violence on the streets have the issue with. There’s a huge difference between this case and the likes of Rodney King or the investigation re the murder of Stephen Lawrence where the families and the black community had the right to be very angry with Police. At what must be a very difficult time for the Kaba family they really need to put out some words condoning any violence on the streets. There have been plenty of miscarriages of justice in the past this isn’t one of them. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 21, 2024 17:23:29 GMT
dont know the exact circumstances as i wasnt there but if it wasnt in line with the appropriate police regulations he wasnt doing his job properly it is right that these things get investigated and hopefully they will find him not guilty carrying a firearm is a massive responsibility, they guys are facing real dangers but they are have to act appropriatley as they are not above the law I stand by this. It’s only right and fitting it gets investigated properly there was a case to answer but the correct decision has been made. Things like this can’t be brushed under the carpet. The community also has to accept this decision Moral of the story don’t put yourself in the situation in first place |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 21, 2024 18:36:02 GMT
As Han Solo above has rightly said ..had he he stopped and cooperated then we wouldn't be talking about it today
Glad he got off and wasn't turned into colour circus
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 21, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
Not posting this to antagonise anyone, simply an alternative viewpoint. Morgan's brother's murder was never solved amidst allegations of Police collusion with criminals and a cover up.
Unless new evidence emerges, the verdict has to stand.
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