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Post by monsoonmoon on Sept 24, 2024 8:39:21 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-manager-narcis-pelach-9576529“Detail, intensity, clarity,” said Gibson, when asked what was on the cards from the new head coach. “We’re going to have to work really hard. I know him and what he demands. No one will work harder than him, believe me. The guy’s obsessed, he’s a machine, and we’ll benefit from that.” “Obviously we’re doing different things, we’re being asked to do different things than this football club has done for a long time. We had the craziest week, loads of information to take on board and it’s going to be so different to how it has been for a long time. It’s going to be a rollercoaster, there will be peaks, there will be troughs, we have to be patient. Sounds like he’s expecting to implement everything at once rather than setting the basics and adding incrementally. That’s going to ask a lot, and I worry how little patience there is around the stands already. At the risk of going all Malcolm Tucker, I’d be inclined to get the players to think the thinkable before trying the unthinkables… |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 24, 2024 8:43:18 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-manager-narcis-pelach-9576529“Detail, intensity, clarity,” said Gibson, when asked what was on the cards from the new head coach. “We’re going to have to work really hard. I know him and what he demands. No one will work harder than him, believe me. The guy’s obsessed, he’s a machine, and we’ll benefit from that.” “Obviously we’re doing different things, we’re being asked to do different things than this football club has done for a long time. We had the craziest week, loads of information to take on board and it’s going to be so different to how it has been for a long time. It’s going to be a rollercoaster, there will be peaks, there will be troughs, we have to be patient. Sounds like he’s expecting to implement everything at once rather than setting the basics and adding incrementally. That’s going to ask a lot, and I worry how little patience there is around the stands already. At the risk of going all Malcolm Tucker, I’d be inclined to get the players to think the thinkable before trying the unthinkables… Fuck the fuck off |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 24, 2024 9:02:21 GMT
Be interesting how it pans out, but maybe too much too soon for the players.?
I’ve been involved in big change philosophies at work before and seen good and bad approaches.
One of the most simplistic things was to have two objectives individually. The first was identifying and agreeing with management and the individual what they were best at and how they could make themselves even better.
The second was the same process but working on what they felt they were worse at and how to improve that. Put the two together and you got an uplift in performance at both ends.
I’m sure it will be more involved with footballers, but things often work best when kept simple and stupid…..too much change too soon can be overwhelming.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 24, 2024 9:10:19 GMT
We shouldn't be put off him by a slow start, the way Gibson spoke about him the players are going to have to knuckle down and take in the information which could take weeks maybe months before we stabilise into a decent team. Fortunately our players are young so hopefully they take the information on a bit quicker.
I'm just looking at him like a project in the same way Arteta has been at Arsenal, they started slowly and fans even wanted him out but look at them now. If we are patient enough maybe we can get to somewhere similar and have a club that's actually on the up, the players know their job and a bit of excitement along the way.
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 24, 2024 9:12:03 GMT
Be interesting how it pans out, but maybe too much too soon for the players.? I’ve been involved in big change philosophies at work before and seen good and bad approaches. One of the most simplistic things was to have two objectives individually. The first was identifying and agreeing with management and the individual what they were best at and how they could make themselves even better. The second was the same process but working on what they felt they were worse at and how to improve that. Put the two together and you got an uplift in performance at both ends. I’m sure it will be more involved with footballers, but things often work best when kept simple and stupid…..too much change too soon can be overwhelming. Likewise experience introducing change. Expand what people are good at and help them improve what they aren't gently. If it becomes obvious that you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, stop and find them a square hole or as a last resort part company, always remembering it was you that changed the shape. |
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Post by Abdoulaye25 on Sept 24, 2024 9:15:24 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-manager-narcis-pelach-9576529“Detail, intensity, clarity,” said Gibson, when asked what was on the cards from the new head coach. “We’re going to have to work really hard. I know him and what he demands. No one will work harder than him, believe me. The guy’s obsessed, he’s a machine, and we’ll benefit from that.” “Obviously we’re doing different things, we’re being asked to do different things than this football club has done for a long time. We had the craziest week, loads of information to take on board and it’s going to be so different to how it has been for a long time. It’s going to be a rollercoaster, there will be peaks, there will be troughs, we have to be patient. Sounds like he’s expecting to implement everything at once rather than setting the basics and adding incrementally. That’s going to ask a lot, and I worry how little patience there is around the stands already. At the risk of going all Malcolm Tucker, I’d be inclined to get the players to think the thinkable before trying the unthinkables… Unless we get some results quickly this sounds like a repeat of the Nathan Jones omnishambles. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 24, 2024 9:52:19 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand how we ended up with this guy. He managed Peralada 59 times. No success but a relegation on his record Not sure why we were that desperate for a failed head coach from the Spanish 3rd Division. When Pep was made manager of Barcelona he had managed Barcelona B in the same division as Peralada 53 times. Like Pelach he had also one promotion with them. I think Barcelona is a far bigger club than Stoke. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 24, 2024 10:01:23 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand how we ended up with this guy. He managed Peralada 59 times. No success but a relegation on his record Not sure why we were that desperate for a failed head coach from the Spanish 3rd Division. When Pep was made manager of Barcelona he had managed Barcelona B in the same division as Peralada 53 times. Like Pelach he had also one promotion with them. I think Barcelona is a far bigger club than Stoke. Lol. He also had a collection of some of the finest players to have ever played the game at his disposal. Not Gibson, Wilmot and Ennis 😆 |
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Post by moon on Sept 24, 2024 10:06:58 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-manager-narcis-pelach-9576529“Detail, intensity, clarity,” said Gibson, when asked what was on the cards from the new head coach. “We’re going to have to work really hard. I know him and what he demands. No one will work harder than him, believe me. The guy’s obsessed, he’s a machine, and we’ll benefit from that.” “Obviously we’re doing different things, we’re being asked to do different things than this football club has done for a long time. We had the craziest week, loads of information to take on board and it’s going to be so different to how it has been for a long time. It’s going to be a rollercoaster, there will be peaks, there will be troughs, we have to be patient. Sounds like he’s expecting to implement everything at once rather than setting the basics and adding incrementally. That’s going to ask a lot, and I worry how little patience there is around the stands already. At the risk of going all Malcolm Tucker, I’d be inclined to get the players to think the thinkable before trying the unthinkables… It's a high risk strategy, but I'm not against the nuclear option approach, we are in need of some drastic changes - and as we've seen with Schumacher (and those before him), the board don't have much patience.
Narcis doesn't have much to lose, he may as well go all in, worst case he'll get a nice pay off and learn what not to do in his next job. If it does work out then his reputation will be greatly enhanced.
Personally I'd have favoured incremental changes, but it's useless having a guy in change for 1-2 years implementing his own incremental changes only to be replaced by the next guy, rinse and repeat. That strategy requires us to invest serious time into whoever is in charge and to back them for 3-5 years, sadly it doesn't look like this is going to happen based on the past god knows how many managers, so we may as well try something different, buckle up and enjoy the ride!
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 24, 2024 10:20:42 GMT
He'll get time as long as the signs and results are there. If he has 6/7 games like the second half against Hull though, who knows what will happen?
I'm all for change, I'm all for having patience - but it's gone past that point now. We've tried that for 7 seasons as supporters. Fans are fed up and want some instant results. We got that to a degree with Schumacher, but then it rapidly fell off and he was staring down the barrel again weeks later. He needs a win quickly, and then a few more back up results, even if they are draws. Something to show he is building towards something.
My feeling is that this could turn out to be another clever looking appointment at the wrong time. This isn't an easy club to manage or change. I know it sounds a bit downbeat and I get football has evolved, but I'm not sure our supporters will ever be fully on board with dicking around at the back and playing risky football. We'll concede one and the players will get barracked and go back into their shells.
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Post by femark on Sept 24, 2024 10:36:49 GMT
I don't think we can afford to make incremental changes over a long period of time. Pelach needs to set his stall out early and say "this is how we are playing". Give the players all of the information and see who is best suited to executing his instructions.
Schumacher, Neil, O'Neil and Jones all backtracked when things didn't work and we ended up with a lack of style and identity from each of them.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 24, 2024 10:48:13 GMT
The vast majority of ex footballers don't make good managers or coaches, therefore finding the right one is pretty difficult.
So if you think of the great managers, Busby, Ramsey, Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson, PEP etc, what made them successful?
In the 1966 England world cup winning team only one player went on tho have a decent management record and that was Jack Charlton.
Brian Clough said most football management is 90% the same, it's the other 10% that makes the difference.
Coaches and managers who have the correct training badges can probably set up a team tactically and can recognise good players.
So is it in the end about the ability to motivate, too get players playing above their basic ability, too get them playing as a team and knowing when to be caring and when to be tough.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2024 10:58:48 GMT
The vast majority of ex footballers don't make good managers or coaches, therefore finding the right one is pretty difficult. So if you think of the great managers, Busby, Ramsey, Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson, PEP etc, what made them successful? In the 1966 England world cup winning team only one player went on tho have a decent management record and that was Jack Charlton. Brian Clough said most football management is 90% the same, it's the other 10% that makes the difference. Coaches and managers who have the correct training badges can probably set up a team tactically and can recognise good players. So is it in the end about the ability to motivate, too get players playing above their basic ability, too get them playing as a team and knowing when to be caring and when to be tough. Ramsey played for England. Clough was a brilliant goal scorer and represented England at 3 levels. In fact all the managers bar Paisley listed above represented their country. The vast majority of footballers do not go into Management. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2024 11:00:26 GMT
When Pep was made manager of Barcelona he had managed Barcelona B in the same division as Peralada 53 times. Like Pelach he had also one promotion with them. I think Barcelona is a far bigger club than Stoke. Lol. He also had a collection of some of the finest players to have ever played the game at his disposal. Not Gibson, Wilmot and Ennis 😆 Add Burger, Tchamadeu, Stevens, Gooch, Rose and you can see the guy will need all the luck he can get. |
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Post by rowleyscfc on Sept 24, 2024 11:05:51 GMT
He'll get time as long as the signs and results are there. If he has 6/7 games like the second half against Hull though, who knows what will happen? I'm all for change, I'm all for having patience - but it's gone past that point now. We've tried that for 7 seasons as supporters. Fans are fed up and want some instant results. We got that to a degree with Schumacher, but then it rapidly fell off and he was staring down the barrel again weeks later. He needs a win quickly, and then a few more back up results, even if they are draws. Something to show he is building towards something. My feeling is that this could turn out to be another clever looking appointment at the wrong time. This isn't an easy club to manage or change. I know it sounds a bit downbeat and I get football has evolved, but I'm not sure our supporters will ever be fully on board with dicking around at the back and playing risky football. We'll concede one and the players will get barracked and go back into their shells. A lot of fans are stuck in the stone age unfortunately, I don't understand where the moaning about playing it out from the back has come from as of late, people didn't seem to mind it when Hughes had us doing it and we were one of the better sides in the division? Maybe it's just because of the quality of player trying to do it, rather than the actual style of play |
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 24, 2024 11:08:22 GMT
He'll get time as long as the signs and results are there. If he has 6/7 games like the second half against Hull though, who knows what will happen? I'm all for change, I'm all for having patience - but it's gone past that point now. We've tried that for 7 seasons as supporters. Fans are fed up and want some instant results. We got that to a degree with Schumacher, but then it rapidly fell off and he was staring down the barrel again weeks later. He needs a win quickly, and then a few more back up results, even if they are draws. Something to show he is building towards something. My feeling is that this could turn out to be another clever looking appointment at the wrong time. This isn't an easy club to manage or change. I know it sounds a bit downbeat and I get football has evolved, but I'm not sure our supporters will ever be fully on board with dicking around at the back and playing risky football. We'll concede one and the players will get barracked and go back into their shells. The thing is about playing out from the back is, you've got to be bloody good to do it. Our defenders struggle to pass 15 yards in a straight line, and none look particularly comfortable on the ball. If he's going to ask them to do something they're not good at, of course questions will be asked (all conjecture at the moment as he might be a hoofball merchant!). Our best football this season has come from Koumas and Manhoef running at defences. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 24, 2024 11:09:48 GMT
The vast majority of ex footballers don't make good managers or coaches, therefore finding the right one is pretty difficult. So if you think of the great managers, Busby, Ramsey, Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson, PEP etc, what made them successful? In the 1966 England world cup winning team only one player went on tho have a decent management record and that was Jack Charlton. Brian Clough said most football management is 90% the same, it's the other 10% that makes the difference. Coaches and managers who have the correct training badges can probably set up a team tactically and can recognise good players. So is it in the end about the ability to motivate, too get players playing above their basic ability, too get them playing as a team and knowing when to be caring and when to be tough. Ramsey played for England. Clough was a brilliant goal scorer and represented England at 3 levels. In fact all the managers bar Paisley listed above represented their country. The vast majority of footballers do not go into Management. Yes that's true but there's a huge failure rate from those who do go into coaching. Think for instance of how many truly successful managers have Stoke had post war, is it 5 in 80 years? |
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 24, 2024 11:10:02 GMT
He'll get time as long as the signs and results are there. If he has 6/7 games like the second half against Hull though, who knows what will happen? I'm all for change, I'm all for having patience - but it's gone past that point now. We've tried that for 7 seasons as supporters. Fans are fed up and want some instant results. We got that to a degree with Schumacher, but then it rapidly fell off and he was staring down the barrel again weeks later. He needs a win quickly, and then a few more back up results, even if they are draws. Something to show he is building towards something. My feeling is that this could turn out to be another clever looking appointment at the wrong time. This isn't an easy club to manage or change. I know it sounds a bit downbeat and I get football has evolved, but I'm not sure our supporters will ever be fully on board with dicking around at the back and playing risky football. We'll concede one and the players will get barracked and go back into their shells. A lot of fans are stuck in the stone age unfortunately, I don't understand where the moaning about playing it out from the back has come from as of late, people didn't seem to mind it when Hughes had us doing it and we were one of the better sides in the division? Maybe it's just because of the quality of player trying to do it, rather than the actual style of play It's absolutely to do with the quality of footballer rather than actually doing it. It's a terrible tactic when the basic premise of it - keeping the ball - is something you're awful at. In Hughes days we had world class footballers doing it. |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 24, 2024 11:18:22 GMT
The sooner I except our 17th place this season the better.
Same old.
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 24, 2024 11:18:54 GMT
The sooner I except our 17th place this season the better. Same old. Right now I'd take that and be pleased with it. |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 24, 2024 11:19:23 GMT
I would say that even "playing out from the back" has changed. It's not like it's quickly moved from centre back to full back and into midfield, it can be 4 or 5 passes between goalkeeper and centre backs, sometimes within their own 6 yard box. I have no idea if that's what it's going to be like under him, but Schumacher did try it sometimes as well. When done well, even the best sometimes get put under pressure and take massive risks. As Stoke fans being in the position we are in, I'm just really unsure that doing it as a high-risk high-reward strategy will work for us. I can see us getting fucked with the risks and with little reward, especially with the likes of Tchamedeu at full back.
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Post by moon on Sept 24, 2024 11:21:56 GMT
I don't think we can afford to make incremental changes over a long period of time. Pelach needs to set his stall out early and say "this is how we are playing". Give the players all of the information and see who is best suited to executing his instructions. Schumacher, Neil, O'Neil and Jones all backtracked when things didn't work and we ended up with a lack of style and identity from each of them. In terms of identity I agree, but Mad Nath showed us how it ends when one picks a style of play that the current players cannot quickly adapt to. Most of the managers you mention were constrained by the budget available, especially MON, AN did have a lot of signings but wasn't given time to integrate them (the football was dire I know, but it takes time for players to gel). Schumacher had a bad spell for a couple of months but otherwise, things were looking up, albeit taking longer than some were willing to wait.
If FFP wasn't an issue, transfer windows didn't exist, and a huge amount of money was available, then this might not matter - we could change a lot in a short space of time and soon have a team playing flowing football sitting on top of the league, unless the rules change though that's not going to happen, or we get relegated like brum and spend what we like with a new man at the helm no doubt .
I feel the sensible longer term plan is to make incremental changes though, to back a manager, stick it out for the long haul, riding whatever highs and lows we face along the way. By regularly changing the manager and everything that goes with him, backroom staff, players (who are not wanted by his replacement), we're spending a huge amount of money and seeing no improvement. It's crazy that our owners are hugely successful in the betting industry yet they run their football club like a punter.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 24, 2024 11:22:36 GMT
A lot of fans are stuck in the stone age unfortunately, I don't understand where the moaning about playing it out from the back has come from as of late, people didn't seem to mind it when Hughes had us doing it and we were one of the better sides in the division? Maybe it's just because of the quality of player trying to do it, rather than the actual style of play It's absolutely to do with the quality of footballer rather than actually doing it. It's a terrible tactic when the basic premise of it - keeping the ball - is something you're awful at. In Hughes days we had world class footballers doing it. Yep any manager worth his salt will realise you have to cut your coat according to your cloth. Philosophy is all well and good but if it doesn't take into account the skillset available it will be doomed to failure. Any decent philosophical approach has to be rooted in real World possibilities, otherwise it will simply will not work. |
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 24, 2024 11:23:23 GMT
I would say that even "playing out from the back" has changed. It's not like it's quickly moved from centre back to full back and into midfield, it can be 4 or 5 passes between goalkeeper and centre backs, sometimes within their own 6 yard box. I have no idea if that's what it's going to be like under him, but Schumacher did try it sometimes as well. When done well, even the best sometimes get put under pressure and take massive risks. As Stoke fans being in the position we are in, I'm just really unsure that doing it as a high-risk high-reward strategy will work for us. I can see us getting fucked with the risks and with little reward, especially with the likes of Tchamedeu at full back. To be honest, I get annoyed when I hear fellow Stoke fans say our fan base is stuck in the stone age. How, exactly? Because we don't like Wilmot and Tchamedeu passing it to each other? We like fast, direct football. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 24, 2024 11:36:34 GMT
Lol. He also had a collection of some of the finest players to have ever played the game at his disposal. Not Gibson, Wilmot and Ennis 😆 Add Burger, Tchamadeu, Stevens, Gooch, Rose and you can see the guy will need all the luck he can get. I actually googled his first 11 for his debut managerial game. Valdes, xavi, puyol, Iniesta, Ronaldinho to name just a few 😆 |
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Post by delilahwhy on Sept 24, 2024 11:43:44 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-manager-narcis-pelach-9576529“Detail, intensity, clarity,” said Gibson, when asked what was on the cards from the new head coach. “We’re going to have to work really hard. I know him and what he demands. No one will work harder than him, believe me. The guy’s obsessed, he’s a machine, and we’ll benefit from that.” “Obviously we’re doing different things, we’re being asked to do different things than this football club has done for a long time. We had the craziest week, loads of information to take on board and it’s going to be so different to how it has been for a long time. It’s going to be a rollercoaster, there will be peaks, there will be troughs, we have to be patient.  |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2024 11:50:01 GMT
It's absolutely to do with the quality of footballer rather than actually doing it. It's a terrible tactic when the basic premise of it - keeping the ball - is something you're awful at. In Hughes days we had world class footballers doing it. Yep any manager worth his salt will realise you have to cut your coat according to your cloth. Philosophy is all well and good but if it doesn't take into account the skillset available it will be doomed to failure. Any decent philosophical approach has to be rooted in real World possibilities, otherwise it will simply will not work. Didn't Pelach say he would assess the players strengths and adapt the playing style to them rather than impose a predefined playing style? Jones, Neil and Schumacher were all guilty of trying to impose a style on the wrong players and it didn't work. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2024 11:55:36 GMT
Ramsey played for England. Clough was a brilliant goal scorer and represented England at 3 levels. In fact all the managers bar Paisley listed above represented their country. The vast majority of footballers do not go into Management. Yes that's true but there's a huge failure rate from those who do go into coaching. Think for instance of how many truly successful managers have Stoke had post war, is it 5 in 80 years? Given the number of trophies up for grabs and the number of clubs, of course there is huge failure rate. NAture of the job. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2024 11:58:14 GMT
I would say that even "playing out from the back" has changed. It's not like it's quickly moved from centre back to full back and into midfield, it can be 4 or 5 passes between goalkeeper and centre backs, sometimes within their own 6 yard box. I have no idea if that's what it's going to be like under him, but Schumacher did try it sometimes as well. When done well, even the best sometimes get put under pressure and take massive risks. As Stoke fans being in the position we are in, I'm just really unsure that doing it as a high-risk high-reward strategy will work for us. I can see us getting fucked with the risks and with little reward, especially with the likes of Tchamedeu at full back. To be honest, I get annoyed when I hear fellow Stoke fans say our fan base is stuck in the stone age. How, exactly? Because we don't like Wilmot and Tchamedeu passing it to each other? We like fast, direct football. If only they were capable of doing so. |
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Post by PottersBrim on Sept 24, 2024 12:04:30 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand how we ended up with this guy. He managed Peralada 59 times. No success but a relegation on his record Not sure why we were that desperate for a failed head coach from the Spanish 3rd Division. When Pep was made manager of Barcelona he had managed Barcelona B in the same division as Peralada 53 times. Like Pelach he had also one promotion with them. I think Barcelona is a far bigger club than Stoke. When Pep managed Barcelona B he achieved 2.21 PPG. When Pelach managed Peralada he achieved 1.30 PPG. Pelach also never got them promoted. He did however, contribute to their relegation. The only things they have in common are their nationality and the fact that they both managed in the third tier of Spanish football. |
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