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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 10, 2024 20:27:36 GMT
Geoff Hurst is the bestest. You can't argue with a hat-trick in a world cup final that we won. Lineker and Rooney joint second Followed by Kane, Greaves, Shearer and Owen. Freddie Steele would have been in the discussion if the world hadn't gone mad. Lives on that game He's nowhere near |
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Post by stokieinlondon on Sept 10, 2024 20:29:28 GMT
Pound for pound, Kane has to be right up there. Lineker on the big stage more so, Gascoigne for the brief time he was good was different class.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 10, 2024 20:39:26 GMT
Geoff Hurst is the bestest. You can't argue with a hat-trick in a world cup final that we won. Lineker and Rooney joint second Followed by Kane, Greaves, Shearer and Owen. Freddie Steele would have been in the discussion if the world hadn't gone mad. Lives on that game He's nowhere near Yes one poxy World Cup final hat trick and the bloke lives on it , bloody charlatan loads of people have done it , oh hang on 😉 |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 10, 2024 20:41:07 GMT
Sorry what did "Wazza" win for England? Kane's record for the national team absolutely pisses all over Rooney's, that's just a fact. What did Kane win for England? What did Kane ever win? Goals mean nothing, and a third of Kane's were penos against Turzkbekistanjiri No they weren't You don't win Golden boots for scoring V made up countries |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 10, 2024 20:41:38 GMT
Lives on that game He's nowhere near Yes one poxy World Cup final hat trick and the bloke lives on it , bloody charlatan loads of people have done it , oh hang on 😉 Makes him the best ever 😁 Don't talk shite 24 international goals |
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Post by datguy on Sept 10, 2024 20:42:12 GMT
Longevity comes into it for me. Getting to the top is one thing. Staying there for a prolonged period of time is another. To remain at elite level takes dedication and sacrifice. Rooney was blown out by around the age of 30 due to not looking after himself off the pitch. As good as he was during his spell, "the greats" go on for longer in my opinion. Rooney broke into the elite at 16 and was blown by 30. Harsh that, he won an FA Cup at 30, and the League Cup and Europa League at 32. So in about 14/15 years, he won 5 Prems, an FA Cup, 3 League Cups, a Champions League, and a Europa League in his final year. That really is outstanding. And looking through his personal accolades on wikipedia, I’d genuinely be here all night if I had to right them down. He’s absolutely won everything there is to win at club level. Has that been topped by anyone? And to be there for 14-15 years is absolutely mega and truly elite. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 10, 2024 20:45:40 GMT
Yes one poxy World Cup final hat trick and the bloke lives on it , bloody charlatan loads of people have done it , oh hang on 😉 Makes him the best ever 😁 Don't talk shite 24 international goals I didn’t say it did but your the one saying World Cup final hat trick isn’t a life defining achievement , and then suggesting I’m talking shit , pot kettle black . |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 10, 2024 20:50:21 GMT
Makes him the best ever 😁 Don't talk shite 24 international goals I didn’t say it did but your the one saying World Cup final hat trick isn’t a life defining achievement , and then suggesting I’m talking shit , pot kettle black . You are to be fair I never said that at all. Scoring a hat trick doesn't make him the best ever. He's nowhere near Seens it was confusing ...to you 👍 |
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Post by delilahwhy on Sept 10, 2024 20:57:24 GMT
Longevity comes into it for me. Getting to the top is one thing. Staying there for a prolonged period of time is another. To remain at elite level takes dedication and sacrifice. Rooney was blown out by around the age of 30 due to not looking after himself off the pitch. As good as he was during his spell, "the greats" go on for longer in my opinion. Rooney broke into the elite at 16 and was blown by 30. Harsh that, he won an FA Cup at 30, and the League Cup and Europa League at 32. So in about 14/15 years, he won 5 Prems, an FA Cup, 3 League Cups, a Champions League, and a Europa League in his final year. That really is outstanding. And looking through his personal accolades on wikipedia, I’d genuinely be here all night if I had to right them down. He’s absolutely won everything there is to win at club level. Has that been topped by anyone? And to be there for 14-15 years is absolutely mega and truly elite. Team accolades are different. We're talking about individuals here. Rooney was past his best by 30. He stayed at Man Utd for a couple more years, which is why he picked up a trophy or two more, but his best years were behind him and he quickly faded. If he'd looked after himself there's no reason he couldn't have continued playing at the top for a number of years. Like Messi, Ibrahmiovic, Ronaldo, Leandowski, Modric et al. Rooney was an outstanding talent. I'm not disagreeing with that by the way. I just think he wasted that talent slightly, by not remaining at the top for 4, 5 or 6 more years. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 10, 2024 21:47:42 GMT
Kane is Englands best ever striker. It’s not the most difficult accolade to win but he’s ahead by miles
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Post by flea79 on Sept 10, 2024 22:03:02 GMT
Rooney broke into the elite at 16 and was blown by 30. Harsh that, he won an FA Cup at 30, and the League Cup and Europa League at 32. So in about 14/15 years, he won 5 Prems, an FA Cup, 3 League Cups, a Champions League, and a Europa League in his final year. That really is outstanding. And looking through his personal accolades on wikipedia, I’d genuinely be here all night if I had to right them down. He’s absolutely won everything there is to win at club level. Has that been topped by anyone? And to be there for 14-15 years is absolutely mega and truly elite. Team accolades are different. We're talking about individuals here. Rooney was past his best by 30. He stayed at Man Utd for a couple more years, which is why he picked up a trophy or two more, but his best years were behind him and he quickly faded. If he'd looked after himself there's no reason he couldn't have continued playing at the top for a number of years. Like Messi, Ibrahmiovic, Ronaldo, Leandowski, Modric et al. Rooney was an outstanding talent. I'm not disagreeing with that by the way. I just think he wasted that talent slightly, by not remaining at the top for 4, 5 or 6 more years. If Rooney had been truly world class he would have ended up at real or Barca He was elite level but never quite world class for me |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 10, 2024 22:13:43 GMT
Longevity comes into it for me. Getting to the top is one thing. Staying there for a prolonged period of time is another. To remain at elite level takes dedication and sacrifice. Rooney was blown out by around the age of 30 due to not looking after himself off the pitch. As good as he was during his spell, "the greats" go on for longer in my opinion. Rooney broke into the elite at 16 and was blown by 30. Harsh that, he won an FA Cup at 30, and the League Cup and Europa League at 32. So in about 14/15 years, he won 5 Prems, an FA Cup, 3 League Cups, a Champions League, and a Europa League in his final year. That really is outstanding. And looking through his personal accolades on wikipedia, I’d genuinely be here all night if I had to right them down. He’s absolutely won everything there is to win at club level. Has that been topped by anyone? And to be there for 14-15 years is absolutely mega and truly elite. All time scorer for England (until the charlatan) and Manchester United on top of all the trophies. But yeah Harry won nowt Kane is better than him. It’s bordering on disrespectful! |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 10, 2024 22:16:12 GMT
Rooney broke into the elite at 16 and was blown by 30. Harsh that, he won an FA Cup at 30, and the League Cup and Europa League at 32. So in about 14/15 years, he won 5 Prems, an FA Cup, 3 League Cups, a Champions League, and a Europa League in his final year. That really is outstanding. And looking through his personal accolades on wikipedia, I’d genuinely be here all night if I had to right them down. He’s absolutely won everything there is to win at club level. Has that been topped by anyone? And to be there for 14-15 years is absolutely mega and truly elite. Team accolades are different. We're talking about individuals here. Rooney was past his best by 30. He stayed at Man Utd for a couple more years, which is why he picked up a trophy or two more, but his best years were behind him and he quickly faded. If he'd looked after himself there's no reason he couldn't have continued playing at the top for a number of years. Like Messi, Ibrahmiovic, Ronaldo, Leandowski, Modric et al. Rooney was an outstanding talent. I'm not disagreeing with that by the way. I just think he wasted that talent slightly, by not remaining at the top for 4, 5 or 6 more years. Even if that were true, Rooney started when he was 16 and Kane was pissing about on Championship benches till he was 22, so it’s no slight on him. |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Sept 10, 2024 23:34:17 GMT
Team accolades are different. We're talking about individuals here. Rooney was past his best by 30. He stayed at Man Utd for a couple more years, which is why he picked up a trophy or two more, but his best years were behind him and he quickly faded. If he'd looked after himself there's no reason he couldn't have continued playing at the top for a number of years. Like Messi, Ibrahmiovic, Ronaldo, Leandowski, Modric et al. Rooney was an outstanding talent. I'm not disagreeing with that by the way. I just think he wasted that talent slightly, by not remaining at the top for 4, 5 or 6 more years. If Rooney had been truly world class he would have ended up at real or Barca He was elite level but never quite world class for me I think Rooney was world class for two, maybe three years in the mid to late 2000s. But he didn't look after himself well enough physically and also got a couple of injuries at bad times that set him back a bit. If he'd had half of the dedication to physical conditioning as someone like Ronaldo he'd have been world class for longer and been one of the dominant forces of his generation. As it was, he threatened to be for a while but wasn't able to sustain it. As others have said, he was already finished at the top level at the age of 30 and in all honesty he was finished as a really top player probably by 27. Which says it all. He was already done at the time when he should have been at his absolute best. He was great around 2007-2009 time though. |
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Post by jebbstuart on Sept 10, 2024 23:45:17 GMT
Would say Rooney was very good but not World Class, banded around too much. Pele, Messi, Cruyff and Maradonna are world classnot the likes of Rooney.
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 11, 2024 1:27:23 GMT
You'd assume he's the best we've ever had. Goals just happen when he's on the pitch. Yes Euro 2024 was a slog for him, all I do know is things look an awful lot different when Kane is on the pitch. Take him off and huff and puff towers are in operation.
You'd hope there's someone to fill those big golden shoes, but nobody comes close right now.
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Post by delilahwhy on Sept 11, 2024 2:12:04 GMT
Team accolades are different. We're talking about individuals here. Rooney was past his best by 30. He stayed at Man Utd for a couple more years, which is why he picked up a trophy or two more, but his best years were behind him and he quickly faded. If he'd looked after himself there's no reason he couldn't have continued playing at the top for a number of years. Like Messi, Ibrahmiovic, Ronaldo, Leandowski, Modric et al. Rooney was an outstanding talent. I'm not disagreeing with that by the way. I just think he wasted that talent slightly, by not remaining at the top for 4, 5 or 6 more years. Even if that were true, Rooney started when he was 16 and Kane was pissing about on Championship benches till he was 22, so it’s no slight on him. Kane has 68 goals for England. 100 caps. Rooney is pissing about on 53 goals from 120 caps. 😘 |
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Post by Trouserdog on Sept 11, 2024 5:31:53 GMT
Best striker England have had in my lifetime.
Rooney in 2004 was a phenomenon (do-do-do-do-do-do) but never repeated his form at that tournament. Shearer the closest, but not the same after his injury. Lineker a great finisher, but isn't the all round player that Kane is.
If we play fast wingers either side of Kane, his habit of dropping deep for the ball isn't a problem, it's an advantage. It can draw defenders out with him leaving more space for other players to run into. The problem is when the team isn't set up to accommodate that.
Kane's getting past his peak now, and does seem to burn out at the end of seasons. He's on the downward slope, but in the context of questions like this, he should be judged on what he's produced over his career rather than the point he'll inevitably get to, when even his biggest fans will have to admit he's over the hill.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 11, 2024 7:49:11 GMT
All this trophy cliche some repeat re Kane
Because you won a trophy doesn't make you a better player than someone who didn't
By that logic, Socrates wouldn't be included if talking about great Brazilian players as won nothing in his career . To say Hurst was the best England striker ever is complete and utter nonsense.
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Post by ethers26 on Sept 11, 2024 8:08:47 GMT
You'd have to say Kane's record for England - but he's been helped by some good sides under Southgate
Bar 2004 (he was unbelievable pre-injury) and 2006 (basically injured), Rooney's England were shite
I think most agree Rooney is the best player we've produced in a long old while
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Post by raythesailor on Sept 11, 2024 13:22:38 GMT
His record of 100 caps and 68 goals is excellent.
Looking at the hall of fame stats last night all are household names from Billy Wright, Jimmy Greaves to Kane.
However I think England play far more games now than back then so it is impossible to make comparisons.
I thought his target of 100 goals was unachievable but then considering the he number of games and THE STANDARD OF MANY OF THE OPPONENTS maybe not?
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Sept 11, 2024 14:09:19 GMT
His record of 100 caps and 68 goals is excellent. Looking at the hall of fame stats last night all are household names from Billy Wright, Jimmy Greaves to Kane. However I think England play far more games now than back then so it is impossible to make comparisons. I thought his target of 100 goals was unachievable but then considering the he number of games and THE STANDARD OF MANY OF THE OPPONENTS maybe not? Firstly, Harry Kane is the most prolific goal scorer this country has ever produced. The stats don’t lie! End of that particular discussion. Sorry but the point about standard of opposition being weaker is nonesense. The stronger nations (England included) have always faced a mixed bag of opponents and for this reason double figure scores were not that uncommon in the dim and distant. Nowadays the authorities have taken steps to address this issue by ranking teams and grouping them of similar abilities as in the Nation League. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 11, 2024 14:18:46 GMT
Geoff Hurst is the bestest. You can't argue with a hat-trick in a world cup final that we won. Lineker and Rooney joint second Followed by Kane, Greaves, Shearer and Owen. Freddie Steele would have been in the discussion if the world hadn't gone mad. Lives on that game He's nowhere near Your waffle is at least usually funny Lives on that game! You telling me Hazza Kane wouldn't swap his record for Geoff Hurst's? |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 11, 2024 14:20:03 GMT
All this trophy cliche some repeat re Kane Because you won a trophy doesn't make you a better player than someone who didn't By that logic, Socrates wouldn't be included if talking about great Brazilian players as won nothing in his career . To say Hurst was the best England striker ever is complete and utter nonsense. Yeah but he's still not better than Wazzaaaa |
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Post by femark on Sept 11, 2024 15:35:28 GMT
His record of 100 caps and 68 goals is excellent. Looking at the hall of fame stats last night all are household names from Billy Wright, Jimmy Greaves to Kane. However I think England play far more games now than back then so it is impossible to make comparisons. I thought his target of 100 goals was unachievable but then considering the he number of games and THE STANDARD OF MANY OF THE OPPONENTS maybe not? We play a few more games now, but not loads more - between 2000 - 2019 we played 198 games compared to 236 games between 1960 - 1979. We also played a lot of home nation games against relatively poor position between 1960 - 1980's. |
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 11, 2024 20:43:54 GMT
I have been a student of the game for many years and watched and read about many players of different eras.
My conclusion is you cannot compare players of different eras and different positions. Statistics can also be misleading. Playing conditions, rules, and refereeing have all changed tremendously.
I have loads of biographies starting from our Stan, Soo, and Franklin, who incidentally was the first choice player for a record successive times after WW2 in an era when the blazered selection committee believed in handing out caps as a reward for loyal club service, not necessarily ability.
Greaves was consistantly the highest league scorer for season after season before and after 1966 a season when he was ill. His score rate was incredible. England won the world Cup in 66 with probably its strongest ever team spine in Banks, Moore, Bobby Charlton, and Greaves, which Ramsay was astute enough to build a superb supporting group of players around, who may not necessarily have been the best but complemented each other perfectly. Ironically, Greaves was injured and couldn't play and the team got better with Hurst replacing him.
Many players peak for a short period and make a big impact but Kane is one of the few like Charlton who performed excellently year in and year out with rarely a loss of form. I do get annoyed when the players talk about today's "greats" who have never won anything and usually don't last very long at the top. Recently it has become practice to pick one young player after another, who have little experience and don't last more than a couple of seasons, before another young player replaces them. In Ramsay's day, it seemed harder to get dropped than selected!!!
Some of the statistics I've read are amazing, for example when Stan Matthews was in his pomp with Blackpool wherever Blackpool played the average home gate increased by 10,000 to see him play. When the Charltons were boys they would stand by a corner flag when Blackpool were playing at Newcastle so as to be near their idol.
Many professional players post war rated Tom Finney the greatest all round player, who could play brilliantly in any forward position. Interestingly autobiographies by many of the great managers don't drewel over any players in particular.
The biography that has impressed me the most and really impressed me by what he achieved in the game is Billy Wright, the David Beckham of his day in terms of celebrity status. His playing record was right up there with the best, captaining England for a record time. Some people say he failed as a manager at Arsenal, forgetting he put together a lot of the players that Bertie Mee used to create a double winning team. He then went on to make a highly successful career in the media, like Greavesy.
I have changed my mind over the relative ranking of Rooney and Kane and now think Kane can be put alongside Bobby Charlton, Banks, Moore, Wright, and Shilton as a true great, as much for his longevity of quality performances for England as anything.
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Post by lordb on Sept 11, 2024 21:00:46 GMT
I have been a student of the game for many years and watched and read about many players of different eras. My conclusion is you cannot compare players of different eras and different positions. Statistics can also be misleading. Playing conditions, rules, and refereeing have all changed tremendously. I have loads of biographies starting from our Stan, Soo, and Franklin, who incidentally was the first choice player for a record successive times after WW2 in an era when the blazered selection committee believed in handing out caps as a reward for loyal club service, not necessarily ability. Greaves was consistantly the highest league scorer for season after season before and after 1966 a season when he was ill. His score rate was incredible. England won the world Cup in 66 with probably its strongest ever team spine in Banks, Moore, Bobby Charlton, and Greaves, which Ramsay was astute enough to build a superb supporting group of players around, who may not necessarily have been the best but complemented each other perfectly. Ironically, Greaves was injured and couldn't play and the team got better with Hurst replacing him. Many players peak for a short period and make a big impact but Kane is one of the few like Charlton who performed excellently year in and year out with rarely a loss of form. I do get annoyed when the players talk about today's "greats" who have never won anything and usually don't last very long at the top. Recently it has become practice to pick one young player after another, who have little experience and don't last more than a couple of seasons, before another young player replaces them. In Ramsay's day, it seemed harder to get dropped than selected!!! Some of the statistics I've read are amazing, for example when Stan Matthews was in his pomp with Blackpool wherever Blackpool played the average home gate increased by 10,000 to see him play. When the Charltons were boys they would stand by a corner flag when Blackpool were playing at Newcastle so as to be near their idol. Many professional players post war rated Tom Finney the greatest all round player, who could play brilliantly in any forward position. Interestingly autobiographies by many of the great managers don't drewel over any players in particular. The biography that has impressed me the most and really impressed me by what he achieved in the game is Billy Wright, the David Beckham of his day in terms of celebrity status. His playing record was right up there with the best, captaining England for a record time. Some people say he failed as a manager at Arsenal, forgetting he put together a lot of the players that Bertie Mee used to create a double winning team. He then went on to make a highly successful career in the media, like Greavesy. I have changed my mind over the relative ranking of Rooney and Kane and now think Kane can be put alongside Bobby Charlton, Banks, Moore, Wright, and Shilton as a true great, as much for his longevity of quality performances for England as anything. If Franklin hadn't gone to Colombia I think his England career would have outdone Wright's |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 11, 2024 21:02:04 GMT
I have been a student of the game for many years and watched and read about many players of different eras. My conclusion is you cannot compare players of different eras and different positions. Statistics can also be misleading. Playing conditions, rules, and refereeing have all changed tremendously. I have loads of biographies starting from our Stan, Soo, and Franklin, who incidentally was the first choice player for a record successive times after WW2 in an era when the blazered selection committee believed in handing out caps as a reward for loyal club service, not necessarily ability. Greaves was consistantly the highest league scorer for season after season before and after 1966 a season when he was ill. His score rate was incredible. England won the world Cup in 66 with probably its strongest ever team spine in Banks, Moore, Bobby Charlton, and Greaves, which Ramsay was astute enough to build a superb supporting group of players around, who may not necessarily have been the best but complemented each other perfectly. Ironically, Greaves was injured and couldn't play and the team got better with Hurst replacing him. Many players peak for a short period and make a big impact but Kane is one of the few like Charlton who performed excellently year in and year out with rarely a loss of form. I do get annoyed when the players talk about today's "greats" who have never won anything and usually don't last very long at the top. Recently it has become practice to pick one young player after another, who have little experience and don't last more than a couple of seasons, before another young player replaces them. In Ramsay's day, it seemed harder to get dropped than selected!!! Some of the statistics I've read are amazing, for example when Stan Matthews was in his pomp with Blackpool wherever Blackpool played the average home gate increased by 10,000 to see him play. When the Charltons were boys they would stand by a corner flag when Blackpool were playing at Newcastle so as to be near their idol. Many professional players post war rated Tom Finney the greatest all round player, who could play brilliantly in any forward position. Interestingly autobiographies by many of the great managers don't drewel over any players in particular. The biography that has impressed me the most and really impressed me by what he achieved in the game is Billy Wright, the David Beckham of his day in terms of celebrity status. His playing record was right up there with the best, captaining England for a record time. Some people say he failed as a manager at Arsenal, forgetting he put together a lot of the players that Bertie Mee used to create a double winning team. He then went on to make a highly successful career in the media, like Greavesy. I have changed my mind over the relative ranking of Rooney and Kane and now think Kane can be put alongside Bobby Charlton, Banks, Moore, Wright, and Shilton as a true great, as much for his longevity of quality performances for England as anything. Brilliant analysis. Thanks👍🏻 |
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Post by salopstick on Sept 11, 2024 21:02:10 GMT
Great goal scorer. Can’t deny his goals but he just doesn’t seem special. He’s has definitely benefitted from no proper competition for his place. Think of beckham, gazza, Owen, ince and others you can pick out special and defining moments from their England career.
Imo he’s a case of quantity over quality.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 11, 2024 21:06:38 GMT
I have been a student of the game for many years and watched and read about many players of different eras. My conclusion is you cannot compare players of different eras and different positions. Statistics can also be misleading. Playing conditions, rules, and refereeing have all changed tremendously. I have loads of biographies starting from our Stan, Soo, and Franklin, who incidentally was the first choice player for a record successive times after WW2 in an era when the blazered selection committee believed in handing out caps as a reward for loyal club service, not necessarily ability. Greaves was consistantly the highest league scorer for season after season before and after 1966 a season when he was ill. His score rate was incredible. England won the world Cup in 66 with probably its strongest ever team spine in Banks, Moore, Bobby Charlton, and Greaves, which Ramsay was astute enough to build a superb supporting group of players around, who may not necessarily have been the best but complemented each other perfectly. Ironically, Greaves was injured and couldn't play and the team got better with Hurst replacing him. Many players peak for a short period and make a big impact but Kane is one of the few like Charlton who performed excellently year in and year out with rarely a loss of form. I do get annoyed when the players talk about today's "greats" who have never won anything and usually don't last very long at the top. Recently it has become practice to pick one young player after another, who have little experience and don't last more than a couple of seasons, before another young player replaces them. In Ramsay's day, it seemed harder to get dropped than selected!!! Some of the statistics I've read are amazing, for example when Stan Matthews was in his pomp with Blackpool wherever Blackpool played the average home gate increased by 10,000 to see him play. When the Charltons were boys they would stand by a corner flag when Blackpool were playing at Newcastle so as to be near their idol. Many professional players post war rated Tom Finney the greatest all round player, who could play brilliantly in any forward position. Interestingly autobiographies by many of the great managers don't drewel over any players in particular. The biography that has impressed me the most and really impressed me by what he achieved in the game is Billy Wright, the David Beckham of his day in terms of celebrity status. His playing record was right up there with the best, captaining England for a record time. Some people say he failed as a manager at Arsenal, forgetting he put together a lot of the players that Bertie Mee used to create a double winning team. He then went on to make a highly successful career in the media, like Greavesy. I have changed my mind over the relative ranking of Rooney and Kane and now think Kane can be put alongside Bobby Charlton, Banks, Moore, Wright, and Shilton as a true great, as much for his longevity of quality performances for England as anything. Longevity is a thing yes. A mark of greatness is when top players improve at the age of (about) 32. The engine wears down a bit and they adapt accordingly. Cafu Platini Dalglish Zidane. And in recent years Modric. |
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