|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 10, 2024 13:20:47 GMT
I must admit I do struggle with what it is about 'our' culture (I too am white working class) that people think is threatened. I don't feel threatened. If we have a robust culture (whatever it is) then we'll be fine - fact that someone else wants to pray 7 times a day or doesn't eat bacon is up to them. If we think uour culture is so fragile that it will come under threat then we need to ask wby it is so fragile rather than reject the strength of other cultures. People of ALL cultures should abide by our laws - but that's quite a different thing. Two examples in Stoke-on-Trent Seymour. I suppose it is a matter of judgement whether you think it matters. In light of Gaza , Muslims in this country are only going to be more radicalised. Stoke imam jailed for supporting Islamic State group Sentencing, Judge Rebecca Poulet QC said he had preached hatred and division. His encouragement of terrorism and support for Isis was calculated and intentional at a time of terrible terrorist incidents, she said. Hussain was Pakistani born and had no intention of integrating in his new country, rather he would prefer Islam to take over. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/28/british-imam-kamran-hussain-who-preached-support-for-isis-jailed-for-xxx-yearsMuslim leaders hit back in Hanley church 'damaged graves' row Two quotes from the link below. "The Darul Falah centre has stressed that affected graves were already damaged and the work was carried out by English contractors. In a social media post, St John's Church stated: "We need to address and clarify some serious allegations regarding the recent clean-up efforts at St John's Church. There have been claims that individuals of the Muslim faith deliberately damaged graves and headstones, but this is completely untrue". "The individuals who physically lifted and moved these headstones were English contractors, not Muslims" Why the distinction between Muslims and English? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/muslim-leaders-hit-back-hanley-9373026?utm_source=stokeontrent_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=main_daily_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=68103bc4-b304-44a2-b3b5-f1c99a1df293Those two examples are completely different and conflating the two is a very unhelpful thing to do. In the first case the Imam was promoting a proscribed terrorist group and quite rightly got sanctioned by the law. Some individual Muslims may wish to establish Sharia law in the UK and be prepared to use terrorism to further that end but that is not true of every Muslim and in fact is only true of a very small minority. The case also gives the lie to some cultures being beyond the law - this bloke certainly didn't. There are number of posters on here who have been very vociferous about their support for the people of Palestine. Are you suggesting they have/will become radicalised as a result or is that only an issue for Muslims? In the second case it sounds like someone was shit stirring and claiming that the Muslim group who bought the church were desecrating a Christian burial ground when in fact they'd brought in some contractors to tidy up the area. It's a bit dodgy conflating what they were doing with what the Imam was preaching. I'm sorry BJR but you really are in the territory of making unfounded sweeping generalisations about people of the Muslim faith. Nobody is suggesting Muslims should be above the law and any attempt to implement Sharia law is going to get short shrift from the authorities - it isn't going to happen and the majority of Muslims in this country don't want or expect it to happen either.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 10, 2024 13:25:29 GMT
I must admit I do struggle with what it is about 'our' culture (I too am white working class) that people think is threatened. I don't feel threatened. If we have a robust culture (whatever it is) then we'll be fine - fact that someone else wants to pray 7 times a day or doesn't eat bacon is up to them. If we think uour culture is so fragile that it will come under threat then we need to ask wby it is so fragile rather than reject the strength of other cultures. People of ALL cultures should abide by our laws - but that's quite a different thing. Two examples in Stoke-on-Trent Seymour. I suppose it is a matter of judgement whether you think it matters. In light of Gaza , Muslims in this country are only going to be more radicalised. Stoke imam jailed for supporting Islamic State group Sentencing, Judge Rebecca Poulet QC said he had preached hatred and division. His encouragement of terrorism and support for Isis was calculated and intentional at a time of terrible terrorist incidents, she said. Hussain was Pakistani born and had no intention of integrating in his new country, rather he would prefer Islam to take over. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/28/british-imam-kamran-hussain-who-preached-support-for-isis-jailed-for-xxx-yearsMuslim leaders hit back in Hanley church 'damaged graves' row Two quotes from the link below. "The Darul Falah centre has stressed that affected graves were already damaged and the work was carried out by English contractors. In a social media post, St John's Church stated: "We need to address and clarify some serious allegations regarding the recent clean-up efforts at St John's Church. There have been claims that individuals of the Muslim faith deliberately damaged graves and headstones, but this is completely untrue". "The individuals who physically lifted and moved these headstones were English contractors, not Muslims" Why the distinction between Muslims and English? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/muslim-leaders-hit-back-hanley-9373026?utm_source=stokeontrent_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=main_daily_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=68103bc4-b304-44a2-b3b5-f1c99a1df293They don't sound like terribly pleasant individuals who were rightly prosecuted but they also don't sound like many of the muslims I have worked wuth over the years who talked about football, lat night's TV, the weather and the price of fish but to the best of my knowledge never plotted to cut my head off. That said I'm still none the wiser as to how our culture is under threat. It just sounds like a rehash of the anti-EU 'straight banana' rhetoric to me coming from the same quarters
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 10, 2024 13:28:31 GMT
I must admit I do struggle with what it is about 'our' culture (I too am white working class) that people think is threatened. I don't feel threatened. If we have a robust culture (whatever it is) then we'll be fine - fact that someone else wants to pray 7 times a day or doesn't eat bacon is up to them. If we think uour culture is so fragile that it will come under threat then we need to ask wby it is so fragile rather than reject the strength of other cultures. People of ALL cultures should abide by our laws - but that's quite a different thing. Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with our ever weakening culture is being constantly told by various outlets that Britain is a terrible place, built solely off the back of colonialism. And that the "natives" here are all privileged beneficiaries off the rest of the worlds suffering. The bizarre reactions here in the UK to the George Floyd incident 3000 miles away highlighted some of this to me. Seems to be engendering a belief that we aren't worthy and we have penance to pay. Seems to be having an impact.. Just my opinion mind. Is our culture so weak it can't stand a bit of self criticism? If it can't then you are right it is weak. But if thats the case the issue isn't other cultures, it's our own. A strong culture isnt defined in terms of it never being wrong and never changing. A strong culture is one that can look at itself honestly, adapt and change with the times and isn't fearful of other cultures. To be honest the culture you appear to be defending comes across as scared and lacking in self confidence.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 13:40:35 GMT
Those two examples are completely different and conflating the two is a very unhelpful thing to do. In the first case the Imam was promoting a proscribed terrorist group and quite rightly got sanctioned by the law. Some individual Muslims may wish to establish Sharia law in the UK and be prepared to use terrorism to further that end but that is not true of every Muslim and in fact is only true of a very small minority. The case also gives the lie to some cultures being beyond the law - this bloke certainly didn't. There are number of posters on here who have been very vociferous about their support for the people of Palestine. Are you suggesting they have/will become radicalised as a result or is that only an issue for Muslims? In the second case it sounds like someone was shit stirring and claiming that the Muslim group who bought the church were desecrating a Christian burial ground when in fact they'd brought in some contractors to tidy up the area. It's a bit dodgy conflating what they were doing with what the Imam was preaching. I'm sorry BJR but you really are in the territory of making unfounded sweeping generalisations about people of the Muslim faith. Nobody is suggesting Muslims should be above the law and any attempt to implement Sharia law is going to get short shrift from the authorities - it isn't going to happen and the majority of Muslims in this country don't want or expect it to happen either. I don't think I am in that territory at all CB The first example is of someone in a Mosque in Stoke advocating something that clashes with UK culture. The second is an example of second generation , at least , Muslims who distinguish Islam and the English. There are many examples of cultural clash between Islam and "other cultures " across the globe. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/10/majid-freeman-charged-terrorism-offence/
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 13:58:08 GMT
Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with our ever weakening culture is being constantly told by various outlets that Britain is a terrible place, built solely off the back of colonialism. And that the "natives" here are all privileged beneficiaries off the rest of the worlds suffering. The bizarre reactions here in the UK to the George Floyd incident 3000 miles away highlighted some of this to me. Seems to be engendering a belief that we aren't worthy and we have penance to pay. Seems to be having an impact.. Just my opinion mind. Is our culture so weak it can't stand a bit of self criticism? If it can't then you are right it is weak. But if thats the case the issue isn't other cultures, it's our own. A strong culture isnt defined in terms of it never being wrong and never changing. A strong culture is one that can look at itself honestly, adapt and change with the times and isn't fearful of other cultures. To be honest the culture you appear to be defending comes across as scared and lacking in self confidence. The problem may indeed be our own . I am not necessarily saying one culture is right and one wrong. I'm saying there is and will be a clash. Perhaps "our" Culture ( or the UK culture) has sleepwalked into accepting the growth of Islam ( or weak as you call it). If it is weak, perhaps it needs some help and support.Many Muslims recognise the cultural clash. Is this an example of UK weak culture, that needs help ( the difference between ' culture ' and ' religion' and ethnicity is noted? ) amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/21/amid-class-prejudice-and-sensitivities-over-race-rochdales-abused-girls-were-failed#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17206209584821&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2024 13:59:07 GMT
Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with our ever weakening culture Before even moving on to the rest of your post Mickey, there's so much to unpack, in just the opening sentence you've written there ... What do you mean by 'our' in this context? I assume you mean British, correct me if I'm wrong. How then do you personally define 'British' culture? Are you suggesting that because British culture is now different to how it was in the (say) 50's, then it has become 'weakened' and therefore it's a 'problem'. How has it become weakened and what is the problem that arises as a result of it? I wrote more than that in my 1st sentence. Obviously I refer to British Culture. Although probably fair to say that the Welsh and Scottish seem to get a bit of a pass with regard to the old colonialism and guilt discussion. My point is this proliferation of noise telling British people they are to be ashamed of themselves for the evils of our past. An evil of the past conducted by the wealthy trading classes amd elites that has pretty much feck all to do with the modern day working and so called middle classes as it similarly had feck all to do with the 17th and 18th century working classes of which 95% if not more of the population was then essentially part of. It affects the psychology of ongoing generations and in my opinion makes people unsure of what their culture actually is. Or more pertinently at least what culture they are allowed to be proud of..I think people have become confused. As I said just my opinion..
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 10, 2024 15:39:22 GMT
Is our culture so weak it can't stand a bit of self criticism? If it can't then you are right it is weak. But if thats the case the issue isn't other cultures, it's our own. A strong culture isnt defined in terms of it never being wrong and never changing. A strong culture is one that can look at itself honestly, adapt and change with the times and isn't fearful of other cultures. To be honest the culture you appear to be defending comes across as scared and lacking in self confidence. The problem may indeed be our own . I am not necessarily saying one culture is right and one wrong. I'm saying there is and will be a clash. Perhaps "our" Culture ( or the UK culture) has sleepwalked into accepting the growth of Islam ( or weak as you call it). If it is weak, perhaps it needs some help and support.Many Muslims recognise the cultural clash. Is this an example of UK weak culture, that needs help ( the difference between ' culture ' and ' religion' and ethnicity is noted? ) amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/21/amid-class-prejudice-and-sensitivities-over-race-rochdales-abused-girls-were-failed#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17206209584821&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.comWhat do you mean by "accepting the growth of Islam"? Islam is a religion and people in this country have the right to practice any religion they want. Are you suggesting Islam should be proscribed? Or Muslims seeking a work visa be denied on the grounds of their religion? Or should we be doing more on the international stage to prevent "the growth of Islam" and if so what? You need to differentiate between "Islamism" which a particular political doctrine, "Islamic Terrorism" which is an illegal expression of their politics by some hard core Islamists and the religion "Islam". Not everyone who practices Islam is an Islamist and not all Islamists are ""Islamic Terrorists". If you has said we haven't done enough to prevent the "growth of Islamic Terrorism" I'd agree. However what you said is dubious and doesn't make any practical sense. The Rochdale grooming case is tragic and there are a lot of things to untangle and address. However it has absolutely nothing to do with the comments I made about cultural insecurity. Having started a thread about the future if the Tory Party it really is quite bizarre how many posts have focused on Islam and immigration. Its quite worrying that a debate about a political party has strayed into immigration and Islam and quite a disturbing comment on sime people's "political" obsessions. Taking it back to the OP if the Tory Party refocus their political agenda around immigration and the "threat" of Islam they will gain votes from the right but they would have absolutely no chance of ever winning a general election ever again. This may be the political obsession of a good number of people but it really isn't a majority issue - most people have a much broader range of concerns when it comes to choosing a political party.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 10, 2024 16:00:45 GMT
I must admit I do struggle with what it is about 'our' culture (I too am white working class) that people think is threatened. I don't feel threatened. If we have a robust culture (whatever it is) then we'll be fine - fact that someone else wants to pray 7 times a day or doesn't eat bacon is up to them. If we think uour culture is so fragile that it will come under threat then we need to ask wby it is so fragile rather than reject the strength of other cultures. People of ALL cultures should abide by our laws - but that's quite a different thing. Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with our ever weakening culture is being constantly told by various outlets that Britain is a terrible place, built solely off the back of colonialism. And that the "natives" here are all privileged beneficiaries off the rest of the worlds suffering. The bizarre reactions here in the UK to the George Floyd incident 3000 miles away highlighted some of this to me. Seems to be engendering a belief that we aren't worthy and we have penance to pay. Seems to be having an impact.. Just my opinion mind. I certainly think some people don't like to have it pointed out that much of the wealth, success and historic influence of the UK are built on the fruits of colonisation, and react negatively as a result. I mean, those are undeniable historical facts that have been glossed over for decades, until we invited some of those colonised people to the UK and found out from them what their own countries thought about that colonisation. I'm not sure why it creates such a hostile reaction from some? First, they're facts. Second, I can accept and acknowledge their inherent truth without feeling attacked or undermined as a Briton. Nor do I feel it weakens our 'culture' in any way to acknowledge them.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 10, 2024 16:24:03 GMT
Before even moving on to the rest of your post Mickey, there's so much to unpack, in just the opening sentence you've written there ... What do you mean by 'our' in this context? I assume you mean British, correct me if I'm wrong. How then do you personally define 'British' culture? Are you suggesting that because British culture is now different to how it was in the (say) 50's, then it has become 'weakened' and therefore it's a 'problem'. How has it become weakened and what is the problem that arises as a result of it? I wrote more than that in my 1st sentence. Obviously I refer to British Culture. Although probably fair to say that the Welsh and Scottish seem to get a bit of a pass with regard to the old colonialism and guilt discussion. My point is this proliferation of noise telling British people they are to be ashamed of themselves for the evils of our past. An evil of the past conducted by the wealthy trading classes amd elites that has pretty much feck all to do with the modern day working and so called middle classes as it similarly had feck all to do with the 17th and 18th century working classes of which 95% if not more of the population was then essentially part of. It affects the psychology of ongoing generations and in my opinion makes people unsure of what their culture actually is. Or more pertinently at least what culture they are allowed to be proud of..I think people have become confused. As I said just my opinion.. Yes but I don't think I agree with the opening premise of your post, so I wanted you to explain what you actually meant by it in more detail before replying further. You've confirmed that you were talking about British culture but haven't responded to any of the other questions, which I think are both fair and relevant.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 16:36:47 GMT
What do you mean by "accepting the growth of Islam"? Islam is a religion and people in this country have the right to practice any religion they want. Are you suggesting Islam should be proscribed? Or Muslims seeking a work visa be denied on the grounds of their religion? Or should we be doing more on the international stage to prevent "the growth of Islam" and if so what? You need to differentiate between "Islamism" which a particular political doctrine, "Islamic Terrorism" which is an illegal expression of their politics by some hard core Islamists and the religion "Islam". Not everyone who practices Islam is an Islamist and not all Islamists are ""Islamic Terrorists". If you has said we haven't done enough to prevent the "growth of Islamic Terrorism" I'd agree. However what you said is dubious and doesn't make any practical sense. The Rochdale grooming case is tragic and there are a lot of things to untangle and address. However it has absolutely nothing to do with the comments I made about cultural insecurity. Having started a thread about the future if the Tory Party it really is quite bizarre how many posts have focused on Islam and immigration. Its quite worrying that a debate about a political party has strayed into immigration and Islam and quite a disturbing comment on sime people's "political" obsessions. Taking it back to the OP if the Tory Party refocus their political agenda around immigration and the "threat" of Islam they will gain votes from the right but they would have absolutely no chance of ever winning a general election ever again. This may be the political obsession of a good number of people but it really isn't a majority issue - most people have a much broader range of concerns when it comes to choosing a political party. By growth of Islam ,I mean numericslly. I'm not suggesting the proscribing of anything. " Islam" covers all the sub divisions you suggest. I believe that the vast majority of Muslims in the country want peace. But it is the extremes that will have the biggest effect on cultural clash, and the moderate Muslims will be drawn in( I've explained this in more detail on a different thread). It is not really Bizarre, many threads go down different rabbit holes , reference to Farage is a good example . I'm not suggesting the Torie party should focus on Islam. Anyway the future years will demonstrate the cultural clash or not.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2024 17:14:53 GMT
I wrote more than that in my 1st sentence. Obviously I refer to British Culture. Although probably fair to say that the Welsh and Scottish seem to get a bit of a pass with regard to the old colonialism and guilt discussion. My point is this proliferation of noise telling British people they are to be ashamed of themselves for the evils of our past. An evil of the past conducted by the wealthy trading classes amd elites that has pretty much feck all to do with the modern day working and so called middle classes as it similarly had feck all to do with the 17th and 18th century working classes of which 95% if not more of the population was then essentially part of. It affects the psychology of ongoing generations and in my opinion makes people unsure of what their culture actually is. Or more pertinently at least what culture they are allowed to be proud of..I think people have become confused. As I said just my opinion.. Yes but I don't think I agree with the opening premise of your post, so I wanted you to explain what you actually meant by it in more detail before replying further. You've confirmed that you were talking about British culture but haven't responded to any of the other questions, which I think are both fair and relevant. I care not whether you agree or approve the premise of my 1st sentence. And I've answered your question. I think more people than you think are pissed off at being told our history is to be derided. But that generation upon generation it is gradually confusing British people about what bits of their heritage and culture they can still be proud of. That's my response to you to try and convey why I think our culture is being weakened. And why if you ask most 14 year olds what British culture is you'll get a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders. George Floyd gets murdered 3000 miles away and suddenly the British are under attack for being an institutionally racist entity. People have white privilege rammed down their throats and on it goes. You can see it on the abolish the monarchy thread. A part of British culture I would strongly argue. Now I couldn't give much of a shyte about the monarchy to be fair because I understand full well they have pretty much zero power in Britain in political terms in reality. Its pomp and ceremony. But it is a route via which we can direct positive influence to the world. So worth keeping if you ask me even though I think our King is a bit of a nob. Anyway I'm off to my Morris dancing practice before the big England match..
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 10, 2024 17:26:29 GMT
Yes but I don't think I agree with the opening premise of your post, so I wanted you to explain what you actually meant by it in more detail before replying further. You've confirmed that you were talking about British culture but haven't responded to any of the other questions, which I think are both fair and relevant. I care not whether you agree or approve the premise of my 1st sentence. And I've answered your question. I think more people than you think are pissed off at being told our history is to be derided. But that generation upon generation it is gradually confusing British people about what bits of their heritage and culture they can still be proud of. That's my response to you to try and convey why I think our culture is being weakened. And why if you ask most 14 year olds what British culture is you'll get a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders. George Floyd gets murdered 3000 miles away and suddenly the British are under attack for being an institutionally racist entity. People have white privilege rammed down their throats and on it goes. You can see it on the abolish the monarchy thread. A part of British culture I would strongly argue. Now I couldn't give much of a shyte about the monarchy to be fair because I understand full well they have pretty much zero power in Britain in political terms in reality. Its pomp and ceremony. But it is a route via which we can direct positive influence to the world. So worth keeping if you ask me even though I think our King is a bit of a nob. Anyway I'm off to my Morris dancing practice before the big England match.. If you don't want to explain what you meant, then that's fair enough mate, no mithers, enjoy the match.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 10, 2024 17:28:54 GMT
Yes but I don't think I agree with the opening premise of your post, so I wanted you to explain what you actually meant by it in more detail before replying further. You've confirmed that you were talking about British culture but haven't responded to any of the other questions, which I think are both fair and relevant. I care not whether you agree or approve the premise of my 1st sentence. And I've answered your question. I think more people than you think are pissed off at being told our history is to be derided. But that generation upon generation it is gradually confusing British people about what bits of their heritage and culture they can still be proud of. That's my response to you to try and convey why I think our culture is being weakened. And why if you ask most 14 year olds what British culture is you'll get a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders. George Floyd gets murdered 3000 miles away and suddenly the British are under attack for being an institutionally racist entity. People have white privilege rammed down their throats and on it goes. You can see it on the abolish the monarchy thread. A part of British culture I would strongly argue. Now I couldn't give much of a shyte about the monarchy to be fair because I understand full well they have pretty much zero power in Britain in political terms in reality. Its pomp and ceremony. But it is a route via which we can direct positive influence to the world. So worth keeping if you ask me even though I think our King is a bit of a nob. Anyway I'm off to my Morris dancing practice before the big England match.. Why allow yourself to be pissed off by what are largely historical facts? It's not an erosion of culture to acknowledge their veracity and equally valid to say that acknowledging them doesn't make the country any more or less racist. I'm not sure why people feel so threatened by this stuff. It's very unlikely to have any negative impact on your way of life.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 17:45:12 GMT
I care not whether you agree or approve the premise of my 1st sentence. And I've answered your question. I think more people than you think are pissed off at being told our history is to be derided. But that generation upon generation it is gradually confusing British people about what bits of their heritage and culture they can still be proud of. That's my response to you to try and convey why I think our culture is being weakened. And why if you ask most 14 year olds what British culture is you'll get a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders. George Floyd gets murdered 3000 miles away and suddenly the British are under attack for being an institutionally racist entity. People have white privilege rammed down their throats and on it goes. You can see it on the abolish the monarchy thread. A part of British culture I would strongly argue. Now I couldn't give much of a shyte about the monarchy to be fair because I understand full well they have pretty much zero power in Britain in political terms in reality. Its pomp and ceremony. But it is a route via which we can direct positive influence to the world. So worth keeping if you ask me even though I think our King is a bit of a nob. Anyway I'm off to my Morris dancing practice before the big England match.. Why allow yourself to be pissed off by what are largely historical facts? It's not an erosion of culture to acknowledge their veracity and equally valid to say that acknowledging them doesn't make the country any more or less racist. I'm not sure why people feel so threatened by this stuff. It's very unlikely to have any negative impact on your way of life. No impact Red, unless you or your children happen to be blown up “Twenty-two lives had been suddenly and brutally taken in a barbaric act, leaving behind heartbroken families and friends. Their loss is sorely felt and, for many, the pain of that loss will never ever heal. “There were also almost 1,000 people injured, some incredibly seriously and many still suffer with deep physical or psychological injuries which will remain with them for years, if not forever www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2020/march/a-man-who-conspired-with-his-brother-to-carry-out-a-terror-attack-that-killed-22-people-at-the-manchester-arena-has-been-jailed/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTwenty%2Dtwo%20lives%20had%20been,loss%20will%20never%20ever%20heal.
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 10, 2024 17:52:24 GMT
Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with our ever weakening culture Before even moving on to the rest of your post Mickey, there's so much to unpack, in just the opening sentence you've written there ... What do you mean by 'our' in this context? I assume you mean British, correct me if I'm wrong. How then do you personally define 'British' culture? Are you suggesting that because British culture is now different to how it was in the (say) 50's, then it has become 'weakened' and therefore it's a 'problem'. How has it become weakened and what is the problem that arises as a result of it? I think nowadays most people look around and don't see us, they just see them. That isn't purely from a white British perspective, the division that the media drives leads other religions, ethnicities and age groups to behave similarly. We're not encouraged to be proud of our differences, or to get together and celebrate them. Division appears deliberately created for some other nefarious purpose. Most people couldn't give a toss about what the people who claim to want to 'lead' them want or think, they just want a quiet life, to get on with their families and neighbours. In fact those seeking 'power' on all sides need rounding up and re-educating or shipping off to some other hole. The rest of us can just crack on with it then. It's a wank world to be a part of at the moment. I wouldn't miss it one bit.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 10, 2024 18:02:28 GMT
Jesus, go for the OTT dramatic response why don't you 🤣 Aside from the fact that is ridiculously unlikely to happen to any one of us on here, we're talking about the evaluation of the history of the UK apparently weakening our culture. But you go for people being blown up if you need to. Yep, terrorism is bad.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 18:04:37 GMT
Before even moving on to the rest of your post Mickey, there's so much to unpack, in just the opening sentence you've written there ... What do you mean by 'our' in this context? I assume you mean British, correct me if I'm wrong. How then do you personally define 'British' culture? Are you suggesting that because British culture is now different to how it was in the (say) 50's, then it has become 'weakened' and therefore it's a 'problem'. How has it become weakened and what is the problem that arises as a result of it? I think nowadays most people look around and don't see us, they just see them. That isn't purely from a white British perspective, the division that the media drives leads other religions, ethnicities and age groups to behave similarly. We're not encouraged to be proud of our differences, or to get together and celebrate them. Division appears deliberately created for some other nefarious purpose. Most people couldn't give a toss about what the people who claim to want to 'lead' them want or think, they just want a quiet life, to get on with their families and neighbours. In fact those seeking 'power' on all sides need rounding up and re-educating or shipping off to some other hole. The rest of us can just crack on with it then. It's a wank world to be a part of at the moment. I wouldn't miss it one bit. Ian I agree with that but some divisions can have serious and fundamental consequences. It isn't necessarily a good thing to celebrate or accept all and any difference. I think you are correct that the extremists or powerful accentuate the divisions but unfortunately everyone is drawn in . imo
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 18:06:22 GMT
Jesus, go for the OTT dramatic response why don't you 🤣 Aside from the fact that is ridiculously unlikely to happen to any one of us on here, we're talking about the evaluation of the history of the UK apparently weakening our culture. But you go for people being blown up if you need to. Yep, terrorism is bad. It has happened to some people, perhaps of no consequence to you. I'm not talking about the evaluation of history, you might be , I'm talking about the clash of cultures
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 10, 2024 18:08:49 GMT
Jesus, go for the OTT dramatic response why don't you 🤣 Aside from the fact that is ridiculously unlikely to happen to any one of us on here, we're talking about the evaluation of the history of the UK apparently weakening our culture. But you go for people being blown up if you need to. Yep, terrorism is bad. It has happened to some people, perhaps of no consequence to you. I'm not talking about the evaluation of history, you might be , I'm talking about the clash of cultures And you went straight to terrorist atrocities to illustrate that clash. Wow.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 18:26:47 GMT
It has happened to some people, perhaps of no consequence to you. I'm not talking about the evaluation of history, you might be , I'm talking about the clash of cultures And you went straight to terrorist atrocities to illustrate that clash. Wow. [br Let's pretend it didn't happen then. There are many other examples of culture clash, whether it be the treatment of women, grooming gangs etc. Islam is growing in this country ( and across Europe). The atrocities in Gaza and the Palestinian issue are creating the next generation of radicalised Muslims. Palestinian and Gaza are playing a part in the UK political debate.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 10, 2024 19:56:44 GMT
And you went straight to terrorist atrocities to illustrate that clash. Wow. [br Let's pretend it didn't happen then. There are many other examples of culture clash, whether it be the treatment of women, grooming gangs etc. Islam is growing in this country ( and across Europe). The atrocities in Gaza and the Palestinian issue are creating the next generation of radicalised Muslims. Palestinian and Gaza are playing a part in the UK political debate. I agree with a lot of that but not for reasons you'd expect Treatment of Women: What is the most high profile item of News today whatever the motivation turns out to be. Countless Reports highlighting Domestic abuse being underreported and under investigated. Other reports showing those investigating are over represented in its practice. Should we be concerned about British Culture Grooming Gangs: After the pronouncements by Home Secretary about Asian Grooming Gang's a Study was commissioned to identify ethnicity in this evil practice found "Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white." www.bbc.com/news/uk-65174096(Link to Home Office Report included) Should this be another reason we should be concerned about British Culture Gaza: I completely agree the Conflict is a breeding ground for future Radicalised Individuals when most of the World has looked on and let it happen. Palestine and Gaza most certainly is part of the UK conversation not least because we were instrumental in creating the conditions. Furthermore we have clearly picked a side by supplying Military Equipment and the only small amount doesn't wash as the vast majority goes to US as component parts and do isn't counted. Blair was rightly criticised in participating in an illegal War. ICC has issued an interim ruling against Israel. Is it in British Culture to participate in Illegal Wars and support others that do. Clerics Muslim and Christian: some of the former spout hate speech some of the latter abuse children Is the latter more attuned to a British Culture The World and unfortunately UK contains some evel Bastards A Virus respects no Borders and every Religion and none are infected by a Virus but none are overrepresented No probs if you have no time to read BJR
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 10, 2024 19:57:21 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2024 19:58:32 GMT
[br Let's pretend it didn't happen then. There are many other examples of culture clash, whether it be the treatment of women, grooming gangs etc. Islam is growing in this country ( and across Europe). The atrocities in Gaza and the Palestinian issue are creating the next generation of radicalised Muslims. Palestinian and Gaza are playing a part in the UK political debate. I agree with a lot of that but not for reasons you'd expect Treatment of Women: What is the most high profile item of nes today whatever the motivation turns out to be. Countless Reports highlighting Domestic abuse being underreported and under investigated. Other reports showing those investigating are over represented in its practice. Should we be concerned about British Culture Grooming Gangs: After the pronouncements by Home Secretary about Asian Grooming Gang's a Study was commissioned to identify ethnicity in this evil practice found "Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white." www.bbc.com/news/uk-65174096(Link to Home Office Report included) Should this be another reason we should be concerned about British Culture Gaza: I completely agree the Conflict is a breeding ground for future Radicalised Individuals when most of the World has looked on and let it happen. Palestine and Gaza most certainly is part of the UK conversation not least because we were instrumental in creating the conditions. Furthermore we have clearly picked a side by supplying Military Equipment and the only small amount doesn't wash as the vast majority goes to US as component parts and do isn't counted. Blair was rightly criticised in participating in an illegal War. ICC has issued an interim ruling against Israel. Is it in British Culture to participate in Illegal Wars and support others that do. Clerics Muslim and Christian: some of the former spout hate speech some of the latter abuse children Is the latter more attuned to a British Culture The World and unfortunately UK contains some evel Bastards A Virus respects no Borders and every Religion and none are infected by a Virus but none are overrepresented No probs if you have no time to read BJR Just watching the match in a pub. All the best Wannabee
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 10, 2024 21:58:37 GMT
As good a place as any to post this www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-reality-tv-show-documentary-b2577266.htmlProof positive that UK is fascinated and obsessed with sNobbery and Class Old habits of forelock tugging are hard to dispel As it will be Broadcast on Discovery Channel the Yanks will lap it up as some kind of nature programme observing a strange species once thought to be extinct. They will miss a trick if they don't have Attenborough doing voice overs in a hushed voice.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2024 3:06:03 GMT
Jesus, go for the OTT dramatic response why don't you 🤣 Aside from the fact that is ridiculously unlikely to happen to any one of us on here, we're talking about the evaluation of the history of the UK apparently weakening our culture. But you go for people being blown up if you need to. Yep, terrorism is bad.
Not sure if this is a positive example of current British culture (I'd like to think that it is) or nothing more than apparently a breeding ground for suicide bombers ...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2024 9:46:31 GMT
I’m confused. What is British culture?
In my travels, the most distinctly British things I know of are: extreme politeness, an overinflated sense of belief in any sporting event, and the pomp around the Monarchy.
Is that what people are afraid of losing?
|
|
|
Post by Eggybread on Jul 12, 2024 10:18:46 GMT
I’m confused. What is British culture? In my travels, the most distinctly British things I know of are: extreme politeness, an overinflated sense of belief in any sporting event, and the pomp around the Monarchy. Is that what people are afraid of losing? Read The English by Jeremy Paxman. There is no such thing as the Scots ,Irish and Welsh cultures are totally different to the English.
|
|
|
Post by 4372 on Jul 22, 2024 22:32:00 GMT
With an 80 seat majority, and a fawning press, The Tory ship 'Boris' seemed destined for success. It would "Get Brexit Done" with an "Oven Ready Deal" Except; for the failings of the man at the wheel. It soon became clear (to no-one's surprise), that, just like Pinocchio, he could only tell lies. When his Ministers resigned en masse in a panic, the Tory ship 'Boris' sank like the Titanic.
Remember the 'Holiday from reality' phase? Liz Truss was our leader for 49 days. The omens weren't good,two days after she started; "Enough already"! said The Queen, and departed. But what did for her was Kwarteng (Kwasi), and the unfunded Budget-'twas kamikaze. Before too long her MP's had revolted, and she was gone-before the lettuce had bolted.
A special mention for the Right Honourable few, who lied to me, and cheated on you. Some 'lost the whip' (which sounded like fun), Until I googled what they might have done. Raping women and groping men, Sexual assault,and drugs (again). Inciting hateful sentiment, and, watching porn in Parliament.
So, What now for the Tories? After all these lies and stories? I say good riddance to all these chancers, with their meaningless, glib, three-word answers. Revive HS2,lay a new track, Send all Tories there, and don't let them back. I just need a name for this new destination, I might choose Oblivion,or Annihilation.
|
|
|
Post by dexter97 on Jul 23, 2024 7:45:57 GMT
With an 80 seat majority, and a fawning press, The Tory ship 'Boris' seemed destined for success. It would "Get Brexit Done" with an "Oven Ready Deal" Except; for the failings of the man at the wheel. It soon became clear (to no-one's surprise), that, just like Pinocchio, he could only tell lies. When his Ministers resigned en masse in a panic, the Tory ship 'Boris' sank like the Titanic. Remember the 'Holiday from reality' phase? Liz Truss was our leader for 49 days. The omens weren't good,two days after she started; "Enough already"! said The Queen, and departed. But what did for her was Kwarteng (Kwasi), and the unfunded Budget-'twas kamikaze. Before too long her MP's had revolted, and she was gone-before the lettuce had bolted. A special mention for the Right Honourable few, who lied to me, and cheated on you. Some 'lost the whip' (which sounded like fun), Until I googled what they might have done. Raping women and groping men, Sexual assault,and drugs (again). Inciting hateful sentiment, and, watching porn in Parliament. So, What now for the Tories? After all these lies and stories? I say good riddance to all these chancers, with their meaningless, glib, three-word answers. Revive HS2,lay a new track, Send all Tories there, and don't let them back. I just need a name for this new destination, I might choose Oblivion,or Annihilation. Your own work, 4372?
|
|
|
Post by 4372 on Jul 23, 2024 8:12:38 GMT
I'm afraid so, yes. I've got enough notes for about 30 more verses....
|
|