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Post by Eggybread on Jun 5, 2024 11:28:16 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2024 11:34:27 GMT
I think that there is a big difference between a ruling group of terrorists and a large number of civilians dying of thirst and starvation in a city bombed by equipment purchased from the West.
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Post by Eggybread on Jun 5, 2024 11:37:55 GMT
I wonder how many who support islam are racists or is it just white people who are labelled as racists Is that meant to be a genuine question because if you dont know the answer then Id suggest not posting on this thread.
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Post by Eggybread on Jun 5, 2024 11:39:08 GMT
I think that there is a big difference between a ruling group of terrorists and a large number of civilians dying of thirst and starvation in a city bombed by equipment purchased from the West. Going by many posts on here some seeem to be struggling with that notion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 5, 2024 11:45:58 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism? I made this exact point with him yesterday, unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 5, 2024 16:08:23 GMT
I think that there is a big difference between a ruling group of terrorists and a large number of civilians dying of thirst and starvation in a city bombed by equipment purchased from the West. Going by many posts on here some seeem to be struggling with that notion. I suspect Paul Golding absolutely knows the difference but deliberately blurrs the line. And but by putting that out and it getting repeated retweets that blur goes further and wider. In its own way its a form of radicalisation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2024 16:15:38 GMT
Going by many posts on here some seeem to be struggling with that notion. I suspect Paul Golding absolutely knows the difference but deliberately blurrs the line. And but by putting that out and it getting repeated retweets that blur goes further and wider. In its own way its a form of radicalisation. Rarely, I get asked to discuss our findings in the media. For these kinds of things, we get told how to be careful about misinformation. The worst thing you can do is repeat the statement when you are asked about it. You are advised to talk around it (which is very hard to put into practice all the time). These things are memetic. It doesn’t matter if the average person knows that they are wrong initially, repeat them enough and they become a sort of truth. I’m sure that people like Golding understand these concepts quite well.
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Post by Northy on Jun 5, 2024 16:27:05 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism? Well the guy on the right has the Slogan 'From the river to the sea' on the front of his T shirt. Which was PLO and now Hamas and is banned in many places as being anti-semitic and linked to Hamas. Hamas are Palestinians aren't they? I can't quite tell what she's saying as it's a bit shouty and a strong accent, I'd like to see the whole clip and not just a small part of it.
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Post by mrnovember on Jun 5, 2024 17:51:38 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism? I bet you all do a little bit. Just a secret little fist bump to yourself when they get one over. Go on, give us an 'Up The Mas' or a 'We Love You Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya, we do' it'll be incredibly cathartic for you.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 5, 2024 19:06:24 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism? Well the guy on the right has the Slogan 'From the river to the sea' on the front of his T shirt. Which was PLO and now Hamas and is banned in many places as being anti-semitic and linked to Hamas. Hamas are Palestinians aren't they? I can't quite tell what she's saying as it's a bit shouty and a strong accent, I'd like to see the whole clip and not just a small part of it. If the phrase is anti-Semitic why does Netanyahu and the rest of his hardline cabinet use it as well?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 5, 2024 19:38:27 GMT
Well the guy on the right has the Slogan 'From the river to the sea' on the front of his T shirt. Which was PLO and now Hamas and is banned in many places as being anti-semitic and linked to Hamas. Hamas are Palestinians aren't they? I can't quite tell what she's saying as it's a bit shouty and a strong accent, I'd like to see the whole clip and not just a small part of it. If the phrase is anti-Semitic why does Netanyahu and the rest of his hardline cabinet use it as well?
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Post by mrnovember on Jun 5, 2024 20:09:58 GMT
Well the guy on the right has the Slogan 'From the river to the sea' on the front of his T shirt. Which was PLO and now Hamas and is banned in many places as being anti-semitic and linked to Hamas. Hamas are Palestinians aren't they? I can't quite tell what she's saying as it's a bit shouty and a strong accent, I'd like to see the whole clip and not just a small part of it. If the phrase is anti-Semitic why does Netanyahu and the rest of his hardline cabinet use it as well? If Benjamin Netanyahu has ever chanted about a future in which Palestine exists freely from the River Jordan to the Meddy sea, I'll give you the money myself.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 5, 2024 20:55:48 GMT
If the phrase is anti-Semitic why does Netanyahu and the rest of his hardline cabinet use it as well? If Benjamin Netanyahu has ever chanted about a future in which Palestine exists freely from the River Jordan to the Meddy sea, I'll give you the money myself. The man in the clip wasn't chanting it he had it on his t-shirt, hope this helps?
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Post by mrnovember on Jun 5, 2024 21:09:08 GMT
If Benjamin Netanyahu has ever chanted about a future in which Palestine exists freely from the River Jordan to the Meddy sea, I'll give you the money myself. The man in the clip wasn't chanting it he had it on his t-shirt, hope this helps? You're right, I've never heard it chanted. It's a t-shirt exclusive slogan.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 5, 2024 21:28:18 GMT
While it's no excuse for some of Israel's actions, I do find it a bit mistifying why ALL the anger from those in videos like the above is aimed at everyone other than Hamas - The biggest contributer to this latest war in Gaza. That's not to say Israel are innocent in all of this, far from it. But to ignore the biggest evil in Gaza and the root cause of this war - Hamas - is utterly bizarre. Hamas have Palestinian blood on their hands all over the place and they have got exactly the heavy handed, brutal response from Israel they wanted and knew they'd get after launching the biggest terrorist attack in Israeli history.
It's a truly tragic, horrifying state of affairs that so many protestors in Britain don't fully understand or indeed, don't want to understand. Israel have gone way too far with this pointless, irrational war. But Hamas intentionally poked the bear, knowing this was going to happen and should be the first name that is called out by these protestors. They never are.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 5, 2024 21:35:58 GMT
The man in the clip wasn't chanting it he had it on his t-shirt, hope this helps? You're right, I've never heard it chanted. It's a t-shirt exclusive slogan. Glad we sorted that then. Have a lovely evening.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 5, 2024 21:39:32 GMT
the biggest evil in Gaza and the root cause of this war - Hamas
I'm sorry Nick but you're going to need to explain this claim.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 5, 2024 21:47:30 GMT
the biggest evil in Gaza and the root cause of this war - Hamas I'm sorry Nick but you're going to need to explain this claim.
Paul the current war in Gaza was triggered by Hamas launching an unprovoked attack on innocent Israelis, where over 1,000 civilians were massacred, unopposed. It's that straightforward. Let me put it another way - Do you think we would have had this war in Gaza which has seen hundreds of thousands killed and displaced had October 7th not happened? Do you think Hamas weren't expecting this kind of reaction from Israel? To be clear I'm talking specifically about this latest war in Gaza, that was initiated by Hamas. The wider history of the conflict and hatred between Israelis and Palestinians is much more nuanced and complicated.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 5, 2024 21:48:35 GMT
Ive noticed that every post about the Palestinian people always gets connected with Hamas.Where in this clip is Hamas mentioned? Dont you understand that support for Palestine is not support for Hamas?Or would that confuse some people or just doesnt fit the agenda of hate and racism? Hamas are Palestinians aren't they?
And the IRA are Irish.
Your point being?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 5, 2024 21:52:48 GMT
I'm sorry Nick but you're going to need to explain this claim.
Paul the current war in Gaza was triggered by Hamas launching an unprovoked attack on innocent Israelis, where over 1,000 civilians were massacred, unopposed. It's that straightforward. Let me put it another way - Do you think we would have had this war in Gaza which has seen hundreds of thousands killed and displaced had October 7th not happened? Do you think Hamas weren't expecting this kind of reaction from Israel? To be clear I'm talking specifically about this latest war in Gaza, that was initiated by Hamas.
Why do you say it was unprovoked Nick?
The 'war' or rather the occupation, has been going on for 75 years, during which, thousands upon thousands of Palestinians have been massacred unopposed, isn't that straightforward?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 22:05:46 GMT
Paul Golding? You aren't even pretending any more that the point of this thread is to pedal racist propaganda are you? Fair play for coming out.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 5, 2024 22:40:23 GMT
Paul the current war in Gaza was triggered by Hamas launching an unprovoked attack on innocent Israelis, where over 1,000 civilians were massacred, unopposed. It's that straightforward. Let me put it another way - Do you think we would have had this war in Gaza which has seen hundreds of thousands killed and displaced had October 7th not happened? Do you think Hamas weren't expecting this kind of reaction from Israel? To be clear I'm talking specifically about this latest war in Gaza, that was initiated by Hamas. Why do you say it was unprovoked Nick? The 'war' or rather the occupation, has been going on for 75 years, during which, thousands upon thousands of Palestinians have been massacred unopposed, isn't that straightforward? Hamas were not provoked into murdering, raping, mutilating and kidnapping over 1,000 innocent civilians at a festival. There are two separate points here. 1) The CURRENT war in Gaza which simply wouldn't be happening right now if Hamas did not launch their unprovoked assault on Israel on October 7th. Hamas knew exactly how Israel would respond and as such, have Palestinian blood on their hands. Does that give Israel license to kill civilians? No. But would they be in Gaza right now killing civilians if Hamas didn't initiate the war? No. As an absolute minimum, do you not think it's reasonable to expect pro Palestinian protesters in the West to be calling out Hamas, as well as Israel during their gatherings? 2) The wider Israeli/Palestinian conflict which as you say, spans decades. But it is much more complicated and nuanced than simply saying "it's all Israel's fault". Albeit in my personal view, a good chunk of it, is Israel's fault. That said, I've never really enjoyed studying it in depth. I actually find the history of the conflict incredibly boring. I always find the Gaza/West Bank comparison interesting. West Bank has traditionally been largely violence free, better run, comparitively safe and a welcoming region which has worked far more successfully and cooperatively over the years with Israel - I visited as a tourist, as many tens of thousands a year have done for many a year. Gaza on the other hand is an absolute living hell. Hamas and Israel have been provoking one another there endlessly for years. Gaza has seen widespread oppression and a total lack of democracy at the hands of Hamas. Hamas has openly called for the murder of Jews, the destruction of Israel and has implemented Sharia law across the Gaza strip. Hamas is not the Palestinian people's friend. But back to point one - There was absolutely no justification for the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th and had that not happened, this Israeli invasion of the Gaza strip would not be happening. For protestors to dismiss Hamas as a key cause to this war is painfully naive, in my view.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 5, 2024 23:00:18 GMT
Why do you say it was unprovoked Nick? The 'war' or rather the occupation, has been going on for 75 years, during which, thousands upon thousands of Palestinians have been massacred unopposed, isn't that straightforward? I actually find the history of the conflict incredibly boring.
If that's your starting point in this discussion Nick, then (sadly) there's probably very little left for us to discuss.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 5, 2024 23:40:34 GMT
I actually find the history of the conflict incredibly boring. If that's your starting point in this discussion Nick, then (sadly) there's probably very little left for us to discuss.
I have always found Israel/Palestine a boring one Paul and I say that as someone who loves his history. Its just not a conflict that gets me going. It's a toxic tale of religion fuelled hatred (as I literally saw and experienced with my own eyes) and two sides who want each other blown off the planet. The tragic number of civilian casualties obviously requires discussion but I normally find the whole debate around it pretty dire and it's always lacked balance - Hence i normally steer clear of it. Just quickly in terms of my prior post though, would you accept that Hamas, as a minimum, should be held accountable, (along with Israel) for the atrocities in Palestine at pro Palestine protests? Surely that's reasonable? I don't see any blame towards Hamas at these protests and it doesn't sit right.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 6, 2024 0:22:04 GMT
If that's your starting point in this discussion Nick, then (sadly) there's probably very little left for us to discuss.
I have always found Israel/Palestine a boring one Paul and I say that as someone who loves his history. Its just not a conflict that gets me going. It's a toxic tale of religion fuelled hatred (as I literally saw and experienced with my own eyes) and two sides who want each other blown off the planet. The tragic number of civilian casualties obviously requires discussion but I normally find the whole debate around it pretty dire and it's always lacked balance - Hence i normally steer clear of it. Just quickly in terms of my prior post though, would you accept that Hamas, as a minimum, should be held accountable, (along with Israel) for the atrocities in Palestine at pro Palestine protests? Surely that's reasonable? I don't see any blame towards Hamas at these protests and it doesn't sit right.
Nick, as someone who I think has one of the more intelligent, articulated and balanced view points from the right on here, I'm surprised that you find the history of the conflict boring.
It is, as you say, a toxic tale but it is toxic tale that many people (especially recently) are not readily prepared, to investigate with an open mind.
For 75 years, it is a toxic tale of a people having their homes stolen from them through occupation and apartheid, it is a toxic tale of their children being raped and slaughtered, over and over and over again, whilst all the time, the western world looks the other way.
Who, do you ask, needs to be accountable?
If somebody was stealing my home, whilst at the same time raping my mother, what would you expect me to do?
Indeed, what would you expect yourself to do?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 6, 2024 0:56:29 GMT
I have always found Israel/Palestine a boring one Paul and I say that as someone who loves his history. Its just not a conflict that gets me going. It's a toxic tale of religion fuelled hatred (as I literally saw and experienced with my own eyes) and two sides who want each other blown off the planet. The tragic number of civilian casualties obviously requires discussion but I normally find the whole debate around it pretty dire and it's always lacked balance - Hence i normally steer clear of it. Just quickly in terms of my prior post though, would you accept that Hamas, as a minimum, should be held accountable, (along with Israel) for the atrocities in Palestine at pro Palestine protests? Surely that's reasonable? I don't see any blame towards Hamas at these protests and it doesn't sit right. Nick, as someone who I think has one of the more intelligent, articulated and balanced view points from the right on here, I'm surprised that you find the history of the conflict boring. It is, as you say, a toxic tale but it is toxic tale that many people (especially recently) are not readily prepared, to investigate with an open mind. For 75 years, it is a toxic tale of a people having their homes stolen from them through occupation and apartheid, it is a toxic tale of their children being raped and slaughtered, over and over and over again, whilst all the time, the western world looks the other way. Who, do you ask, needs to be accountable? If somebody was stealing my home, whilst at the same time raping my mother, what would you expect me to do? Indeed, what would you expect yourself to do?
I like to think I wouldn't go and murder, mutilate and rape a bunch of unarmed, innocent kids at a festival to be honest Paul and would go after those responsible. But it's not that clear cut either. The actions of Hamas are not those of the Palestinian people. Much of Hamas doesn't even reside in Gaza and the majority of Gazans don't support Hamas - Although even that's not clear cut because there is a huge amount of intimidation and indoctrination inflicted by Hamas on the people of Gaza and in times of war, who else can the people turn to? I think you're right to be critical of Israel Paul but you're giving Hamas an easy ride. They are an appalling outfit who have undoubtedly contributed significantly to the current war in Gaza. A terrorist group who have in addition, inflicted misery on Palestinian women's rights, destroyed basic freedoms, education and enforced religious intolerance across Gaza - Severe consequences await anyone who stands up against them. The Palestinian people are not Hamas and their unjust suffering is a terribly sad story. I've said many times, Palestine should be an independent state upon the removal of Hamas and Israel need to come out of Gaza. Nothing can be achieved by prolonging the war.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 6, 2024 1:35:10 GMT
Nick, as someone who I think has one of the more intelligent, articulated and balanced view points from the right on here, I'm surprised that you find the history of the conflict boring. It is, as you say, a toxic tale but it is toxic tale that many people (especially recently) are not readily prepared, to investigate with an open mind. For 75 years, it is a toxic tale of a people having their homes stolen from them through occupation and apartheid, it is a toxic tale of their children being raped and slaughtered, over and over and over again, whilst all the time, the western world looks the other way. Who, do you ask, needs to be accountable? If somebody was stealing my home, whilst at the same time raping my mother, what would you expect me to do? Indeed, what would you expect yourself to do?
I like to think I wouldn't go and murder, mutilate and rape a bunch of unarmed, innocent kids at a festival to be honest Paul and would go after those responsible. But it's not that clear cut either. The actions of Hamas are not those of the Palestinian people. Much of Hamas doesn't even reside in Gaza and the majority of Gazans don't support Hamas - Although even that's not clear cut because there is a huge amount of intimidation and indoctrination inflicted by Hamas on the people of Gaza and in times of war, who else can the people turn to? I think you're right to be critical of Israel Paul but you're giving Hamas an easy ride. They are an appalling outfit who have undoubtedly contributed significantly to the current war in Gaza. A terrorist group who have in addition, inflicted misery on Palestinian women's rights, destroyed basic freedoms, education and enforced religious intolerance across Gaza - Severe consequences await anyone who stands up against them. The Palestinian people are not Hamas and their unjust suffering is a terribly sad story. I've said many times, Palestine should be an independent state upon the removal of Hamas and Israel need to come out of Gaza. Nothing can be achieved by prolonging the war. And who should stand up for the Palestinians having their homes stolen, their schools bulldozed and their children raped?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 6, 2024 5:52:00 GMT
You don't see any issue at all, with the way Paul Golding is deliberately conflating support for Palestinians with support for Hamas? No not in the slightest If you hadn't already come out of the racist closet with your Yaxley-Lennon bollocks, then you're loud and proud now mate. Disgusting...you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.
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Post by knype on Jun 6, 2024 5:54:57 GMT
If you hadn't already come out of the racist closet with your Yaxley-Lennon bollocks, then you're loud and proud now mate. Disgusting...you should be fucking ashamed of yourself. Why should he?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 6, 2024 5:56:33 GMT
Oh look, another thread about Israel/Gaza/Palestine 😒
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