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Post by gawa on Jul 6, 2024 20:52:30 GMT
You tell me Micky. I'm not the one on here throwing around the racist label am I? But I'm not going to be sympathetic towards crouchpotato who is more than happy to throw labels at others. He wasn't worried about the Jewish vote in 2017/19 and their influence in politics or them organising. So I can see why people find it racist when a religion of brown people organise that he goes off on one. Personally I don't really believe in labels myself. I'd rather discuss the detail and debate it and hopefully find common ground. But I do lose patience with those whom are happy to throw labels at others and get offended when it comes back their direction. Why should I give benefit of the doubt to those so quick to weaponise it for their own benefit? Using your terminology are all Muslims brown? I think not. We had a white one playing for England this very day... Correct they're not all brown. Anyway cba with the pointless tit for tat which achieves the square root of fuck all. Divide and conquer has fucked this country over enough.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 6, 2024 20:56:54 GMT
Using your terminology are all Muslims brown? I think not. We had a white one playing for England this very day... Correct they're not all brown. Anyway cba with the pointless tit for tat which achieves the square root of fuck all. Divide and conquer has fucked this country over enough. I agree, it has...and they're all at it. All of em..
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 6, 2024 21:55:37 GMT
Some context I couldn't find a UK Muslim twitter group with more than 23k followers. The Muslim Association of Britain (cited by Michael Gove as a divisive force) has 10k followers (most seem to have this number or less) Britain First has 87k followers Tommy Robinson has 636k followers. That is 63x more than the organisation that is cited as the most threatening to UK interests, which I would say is very contestable anyway. (and I speak as a fervent atheist who personally finds all religious denominations problematic) Reform UK has 380k followers. Just asking you to consider giving this some context. He’s been posting racist shite for months now and been allowed to get away with it. I’m not even somebody who thinks Farage is racist, I even lean towards being anti-immigration, so I’m not just throwing the R word out for nothing. He's an out and out racist who should be permanently kicked off here...amazingly he hasn't.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 6, 2024 22:47:52 GMT
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Post by gawa on Jul 6, 2024 22:53:44 GMT
He’s been posting racist shite for months now and been allowed to get away with it. I’m not even somebody who thinks Farage is racist, I even lean towards being anti-immigration, so I’m not just throwing the R word out for nothing. He's an out and out racist who should be permanently kicked off here...amazingly he hasn't. A superb poster on the football side of the board. I think it's unfair to label him for some misguided comments and I've done the same myself too. But we need more unity.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 6, 2024 23:41:37 GMT
Depends on the context I guess. Muslim immigrants all bad = push back. Catholic paedo priests all bad = no push back. Islam, Christianity, all religions stupid and divisive = no push back. Reform will be the new voice of the migrant haters, have no fear. I'll agree, all religions are a bit stupid.. All are stupid, one has Islamist terrorists which are a clear and present danger to the country
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 6, 2024 23:45:37 GMT
Come on Huddy, that’s just distasteful rubbish
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 6, 2024 23:46:31 GMT
He's an out and out racist who should be permanently kicked off here...amazingly he hasn't. A superb poster on the football side of the board. I think it's unfair to label him for some misguided comments and I've done the same myself too. But we need more unity. Spot on Gawa. The hounding from certain quarters is incredible
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Post by gawa on Jul 7, 2024 1:21:10 GMT
A superb poster on the football side of the board. I think it's unfair to label him for some misguided comments and I've done the same myself too. But we need more unity. Spot on Gawa. The hounding from certain quarters is incredible I've called crouchpotato racist before a number of months ago myself so I'm no better. But I honestly think division is what the powers want and labelling people isn't the right way. Maybe I have said some things others consider antisemetic but I don't think I am personally. So I think it's important to recognise that others on the other side probably fall victim to the same too. I am about 10 pints of Guinness deep in a lockin in donegal though. So maybe the alcohol is talking 😃
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Post by professorplump on Jul 7, 2024 2:27:35 GMT
What a pathetic thing to post.
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Post by foster on Jul 7, 2024 5:48:53 GMT
He’s been posting racist shite for months now and been allowed to get away with it. I’m not even somebody who thinks Farage is racist, I even lean towards being anti-immigration, so I’m not just throwing the R word out for nothing. He's an out and out racist who should be permanently kicked off here...amazingly he hasn't. There you go trying to get people banned again. Sad mate.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 7, 2024 5:56:21 GMT
Spot on Gawa. The hounding from certain quarters is incredible I've called crouchpotato racist before a number of months ago myself so I'm no better. But I honestly think division is what the powers want and labelling people isn't the right way. Maybe I have said some things others consider antisemetic but I don't think I am personally. So I think it's important to recognise that others on the other side probably fall victim to the same too. I am about 10 pints of Guinness deep in a lockin in donegal though. So maybe the alcohol is talking 😃 Well said. People can have views on other posters but rather than posting them they need to keep them to themselves as it’s actually very offensive to start labelling people or making things personal especially as they know nothing about them as an individual or how fragile there mental health may be. It’s lucky that people don’t use their own names on here otherwise there’d be legal action being taken around slander. I remember talking to a poster a while back (he no longer posts on here) and it was clear from what he said that he was quite fragile around some of the comments being made about him and he was close to seeking advice around what was being said. As you say it’s very derisory and having been on the end of similar in the past very offensive when it’s personal especially if it’s about something you’re not or because you’ve had what you’ve said misinterpreted which is easy when it’s at the end of a keyboard. I get that the Oatie can be a melting pot and that people can be very passionate around their views but sometimes we all need to sit back and think before we start posting accusing names about people or talking about them like they’re the devil incarcerated. Like I say we know little or nothing about each other or their lives or the day they’re having. This isn’t a dig at individuals as we’re all guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment but this is a great board we just need to be more tolerant of each others views and if we don’t agree at least keep it clean. There endeth the sermon of the day
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Post by foster on Jul 7, 2024 6:15:32 GMT
If we're going to start being ridiculous...here's a selection. 2013, 22 May: A British soldier, Lee Rigby, was murdered in an attack in Woolwich by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale....both of Nigerian descent. 2017, 22 May: Manchester Arena bombing – An Islamist suicide bomber, 22-year-old Salman Abedi, blew himself up at Manchester Arena.... parents from Libya. 2017, 3 June: 2017 London Bridge attack – Three Islamists drove a van into pedestrians on London bridge before stabbing people in and around pubs in nearby Borough Market. Eight people were killed and at least 48 wounded..... of Pakistani and Moroccan descent. 2019, 29 November: 2019 London Bridge stabbing – Two people were killed in the attack and three were left injured...of Pakistani descent. 2020, 20 June: 2020 Reading stabbings – On 20 June 2020, Khairi Saadallah, shouting "Allahu Akbar", attacked two groups of people socialising in Forbury Gardens, a public park in the centre of Reading, killing three and injuring three others.....Libyan refugee 2023, 15 October: Ahmed Ali Alid stabbed 70-year-old Terence Carney to death in Hartlepool and seriously injured another man....Moroccan asylum seeker
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Post by elystokie on Jul 7, 2024 7:28:19 GMT
Congratulations to Sam Carling, joint youngest MP ever at 22, great that the youth have a voice, just seen him on the tellybox, seems a very bright chap. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Carling
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 7, 2024 7:31:57 GMT
Saka got the most disgusting racist abuse for missing a penalty in the final last time. Horrendous. Despite this, he put himself forward a second time knowing that if he missed again he would be subject to the same abuse by people in this country who, quite frankly, should do us all a favour and die. Saka steps up and scores. Wonderful. Absolutely brilliant. What a player. And after having produced a piece of genius to get us back in the match. A brilliant example of why Farage’s hatred that he intentionally drums up has absolutely no place in a civilised nation. Saka’s penalty totally proved that hatred wrong.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 7, 2024 7:32:55 GMT
I've called crouchpotato racist before a number of months ago myself so I'm no better. But I honestly think division is what the powers want and labelling people isn't the right way. Maybe I have said some things others consider antisemetic but I don't think I am personally. So I think it's important to recognise that others on the other side probably fall victim to the same too. I am about 10 pints of Guinness deep in a lockin in donegal though. So maybe the alcohol is talking 😃 Well said. People can have views on other posters but rather than posting them they need to keep them to themselves as it’s actually very offensive to start labelling people or making things personal especially as they know nothing about them as an individual or how fragile there mental health may be. It’s lucky that people don’t use their own names on here otherwise there’d be legal action being taken around slander. I remember talking to a poster a while back (he no longer posts on here) and it was clear from what he said that he was quite fragile around some of the comments being made about him and he was close to seeking advice around what was being said. As you say it’s very derisory and having been on the end of similar in the past very offensive when it’s personal especially if it’s about something you’re not or because you’ve had what you’ve said misinterpreted which is easy when it’s at the end of a keyboard. I get that the Oatie can be a melting pot and that people can be very passionate around their views but sometimes we all need to sit back and think before we start posting accusing names about people or talking about them like they’re the devil incarcerated. Like I say we know little or nothing about each other or their lives or the day they’re having. This isn’t a dig at individuals as we’re all guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment but this is a great board we just need to be more tolerant of each others views and if we don’t agree at least keep it clean. There endeth the sermon of the day I've said numerous times that the removal of anonymity across the internet as a whole would improve it immensely. People would be a lot less likely to post defamatory comments for a start. And in regards to this place there'd be a fraction of the racism and other unpleasantness, not least because people would be easily accountable for their comments but also because employers would probably be quite interested in some of the views expressed by their employees on here and whether or not they're appropriate people for their organisation.
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Post by foster on Jul 7, 2024 7:43:00 GMT
I just can't believe some of the silly fictional made up usernames that some people on here come up with.
I mean 'Paul Spencer'. Seriously?!
That's a joke of a username if ever I've seen one. 😀
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Post by hotterpotter on Jul 7, 2024 7:45:09 GMT
This thread has quite literally had its day.
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Post by musik on Jul 7, 2024 7:50:09 GMT
Congratulations to Sam Carling, joint youngest MP ever at 22, great that the youth have a voice, just seen him on the tellybox, seems a very bright chap. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_CarlingRural transport, NHS, more dentists.
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Post by elystokie on Jul 7, 2024 8:01:19 GMT
Congratulations to Sam Carling, joint youngest MP ever at 22, great that the youth have a voice, just seen him on the tellybox, seems a very bright chap. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_CarlingRural transport, NHS, more dentists. Haven't read that bit. One of the questions he faced from the TV presenter (and will likely face many more times) was about 'experience'. He might not have the experience of the older MPs obviously but he will have had experiences that none of them could possibly have had. There needs to be a much broader age range in politics imo.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 7, 2024 8:27:15 GMT
Well said. People can have views on other posters but rather than posting them they need to keep them to themselves as it’s actually very offensive to start labelling people or making things personal especially as they know nothing about them as an individual or how fragile there mental health may be. It’s lucky that people don’t use their own names on here otherwise there’d be legal action being taken around slander. I remember talking to a poster a while back (he no longer posts on here) and it was clear from what he said that he was quite fragile around some of the comments being made about him and he was close to seeking advice around what was being said. As you say it’s very derisory and having been on the end of similar in the past very offensive when it’s personal especially if it’s about something you’re not or because you’ve had what you’ve said misinterpreted which is easy when it’s at the end of a keyboard. I get that the Oatie can be a melting pot and that people can be very passionate around their views but sometimes we all need to sit back and think before we start posting accusing names about people or talking about them like they’re the devil incarcerated. Like I say we know little or nothing about each other or their lives or the day they’re having. This isn’t a dig at individuals as we’re all guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment but this is a great board we just need to be more tolerant of each others views and if we don’t agree at least keep it clean. There endeth the sermon of the day I've said numerous times that the removal of anonymity across the internet as a whole would improve it immensely. People would be a lot less likely to post defamatory comments for a start. And in regards to this place there'd be a fraction of the racism and other unpleasantness, not least because people would be easily accountable for their comments but also because employers would probably be quite interested in some of the views expressed by their employees on here and whether or not they're appropriate people for their organisation. It’s a big problem on all social media formats. You see it all the time in schools whether it’s keyboard warriors threatening each other or posing with a machete to prove how edgy they are. If everything was public and people had to scan their face or thumbprints like they do to unlock numerous banking or other password lead accounts I’m sure there’d be a lot less abuse. As you say there’s no place for racism but there’s a huge difference between that and someone having a view on something, whether it’s immigration, stop search, terrorism or many other inflammatory subjects. People should be adult enough to have conversations around these subjects without the R word being thrown around and killing the discussion. Progress will never be made and people will feel suffocated because they don’t have a voice unless there’s more willingness to talk about subjects that can cause lots of friction. It’s all about balance and having respect for one another. To be fair other than the odd spat I don’t think the Oaties that bad and I’m pretty sure tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on on social media. There’s clearly a huge spectrum of people with differing views which is great. I’ve been coming on for years now and I’d be gutted if it disappeared as it’s a great forum and I’d be lost without it and some of the characters on it (even those I don’t agree with). I could count on one hand the times I’ve felt it’s gone too far and I’ve had to step away because I’ve felt offended or upset which is pretty good. It’s a great community and long may it last.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 7, 2024 9:19:04 GMT
I've said numerous times that the removal of anonymity across the internet as a whole would improve it immensely. People would be a lot less likely to post defamatory comments for a start. And in regards to this place there'd be a fraction of the racism and other unpleasantness, not least because people would be easily accountable for their comments but also because employers would probably be quite interested in some of the views expressed by their employees on here and whether or not they're appropriate people for their organisation. It’s a big problem on all social media formats. You see it all the time in schools whether it’s keyboard warriors threatening each other or posing with a machete to prove how edgy they are. If everything was public and people had to scan their face or thumbprints like they do to unlock numerous banking or other password lead accounts I’m sure there’d be a lot less abuse. As you say there’s no place for racism but there’s a huge difference between that and someone having a view on something, whether it’s immigration, stop search, terrorism or many other inflammatory subjects. People should be adult enough to have conversations around these subjects without the R word being thrown around and killing the discussion. Progress will never be made and people will feel suffocated because they don’t have a voice unless there’s more willingness to talk about subjects that can cause lots of friction. It’s all about balance and having respect for one another. To be fair other than the odd spat I don’t think the Oaties that bad and I’m pretty sure tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on on social media. There’s clearly a huge spectrum of people with differing views which is great. I’ve been coming on for years now and I’d be gutted if it disappeared as it’s a great forum and I’d be lost without it and some of the characters on it (even those I don’t agree with). I could count on one hand the times I’ve felt it’s gone too far and I’ve had to step away because I’ve felt offended or upset which is pretty good. It’s a great community and long may it last. I agree that discussion is good. I also agree that slinging labels at the first view you don't agree with is bad for discussion. However how far do you let it go before you call someone out? Or do we forever dance around our handbags and allow abhorrent views to become normalised*. That's a general point by the way before anyone thinks I may be alluding to any particular poster. Though as an example I do think Tommy Robinson (not his real name) is a racist agitator and should be calked one, rather than just someone with 'strident views'.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 7, 2024 9:38:52 GMT
It’s a big problem on all social media formats. You see it all the time in schools whether it’s keyboard warriors threatening each other or posing with a machete to prove how edgy they are. If everything was public and people had to scan their face or thumbprints like they do to unlock numerous banking or other password lead accounts I’m sure there’d be a lot less abuse. As you say there’s no place for racism but there’s a huge difference between that and someone having a view on something, whether it’s immigration, stop search, terrorism or many other inflammatory subjects. People should be adult enough to have conversations around these subjects without the R word being thrown around and killing the discussion. Progress will never be made and people will feel suffocated because they don’t have a voice unless there’s more willingness to talk about subjects that can cause lots of friction. It’s all about balance and having respect for one another. To be fair other than the odd spat I don’t think the Oaties that bad and I’m pretty sure tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on on social media. There’s clearly a huge spectrum of people with differing views which is great. I’ve been coming on for years now and I’d be gutted if it disappeared as it’s a great forum and I’d be lost without it and some of the characters on it (even those I don’t agree with). I could count on one hand the times I’ve felt it’s gone too far and I’ve had to step away because I’ve felt offended or upset which is pretty good. It’s a great community and long may it last. I agree that discussion is good. I also agree that slinging labels at the first view you don't agree with is bad for discussion. However how far do you let it go before you call someone out? Or do we forever dance around our handbags and allow abhorrent views to become normalised*. That's a general point by the way before anyone thinks I may be alluding to any particular poster. Though as an example I do think Tommy Robinson (not his real name) is a racist agitator and should be calked one, rather than just someone with 'strident views'. I guess ultimately we’re all different. I don’t like Robinson either and you’re quite right re him being a racist agitator but in the same respect there are plenty of others like Imarn Ayton, Narrinder Kaur or Mahyar Tousi. He’s not unique by any means. I preferred it pre social media when these people didn’t have a voice outside there mates now they have a huge impact and non of it positive.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 7, 2024 9:44:48 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 7, 2024 10:06:54 GMT
I agree that discussion is good. I also agree that slinging labels at the first view you don't agree with is bad for discussion. However how far do you let it go before you call someone out? Or do we forever dance around our handbags and allow abhorrent views to become normalised*. That's a general point by the way before anyone thinks I may be alluding to any particular poster. Though as an example I do think Tommy Robinson (not his real name) is a racist agitator and should be calked one, rather than just someone with 'strident views'. I guess ultimately we’re all different. I don’t like Robinson either and you’re quite right re him being a racist agitator but in the same respect there are plenty of others like Imarn Ayton, Narrinder Kaur or Mahyar Tousi. He’s not unique by any means. I preferred it pre social media when these people didn’t have a voice outside there mates now they have a huge impact and non of it positive. Social media is a factor and magnifies it but it too easy a targert for blame , there was always a way. Working men's clubs, beer halls, posters, churches (for balance mosques), free papers, gigs. Moseley, the NF and football hooliganism - all societal blights - never had social media but they all got their (warped, nihilistic) message across pretty effectively.
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Post by elystokie on Jul 7, 2024 10:18:52 GMT
I guess ultimately we’re all different. I don’t like Robinson either and you’re quite right re him being a racist agitator but in the same respect there are plenty of others like Imarn Ayton, Narrinder Kaur or Mahyar Tousi. He’s not unique by any means. I preferred it pre social media when these people didn’t have a voice outside there mates now they have a huge impact and non of it positive. Social media is a factor and magnifies it but it too easy a targert for blame , there was always a way. Working men's clubs, beer halls, posters, churches (for balance mosques), free papers, gigs. Moseley, the NF and football hooliganism - all societal blights - never had social media but they all got their (warped, nihilistic) message across pretty effectively. I remember my 'fee' for babysitting my sister was a copy of 'War Cry' that my parents had picked up in the boozer 😄 Closest I got to being a Christian was watching The Spinners on the telly 🙂
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 7, 2024 10:31:04 GMT
Social media is a factor and magnifies it but it too easy a targert for blame , there was always a way. Working men's clubs, beer halls, posters, churches (for balance mosques), free papers, gigs. Moseley, the NF and football hooliganism - all societal blights - never had social media but they all got their (warped, nihilistic) message across pretty effectively. I remember my 'fee' for babysitting my sister was a copy of 'War Cry' that my parents had picked up in the boozer 😄 Closest I got to being a Christian was watching The Spinners on the telly 🙂 You didn't like a bit of Bruce Kent or Archbishop Desmond back in the day?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 7, 2024 10:49:35 GMT
If we're going to start being ridiculous...here's a selection. 2013, 22 May: A British soldier, Lee Rigby, was murdered in an attack in Woolwich by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale....both of Nigerian descent. 2017, 22 May: Manchester Arena bombing – An Islamist suicide bomber, 22-year-old Salman Abedi, blew himself up at Manchester Arena.... parents from Libya. 2017, 3 June: 2017 London Bridge attack – Three Islamists drove a van into pedestrians on London bridge before stabbing people in and around pubs in nearby Borough Market. Eight people were killed and at least 48 wounded..... of Pakistani and Moroccan descent. 2019, 29 November: 2019 London Bridge stabbing – Two people were killed in the attack and three were left injured...of Pakistani descent. 2020, 20 June: 2020 Reading stabbings – On 20 June 2020, Khairi Saadallah, shouting "Allahu Akbar", attacked two groups of people socialising in Forbury Gardens, a public park in the centre of Reading, killing three and injuring three others.....Libyan refugee 2023, 15 October: Ahmed Ali Alid stabbed 70-year-old Terence Carney to death in Hartlepool and seriously injured another man....Moroccan asylum seeker Just isolated incidences , some would say, but a bit nearer to home Fos; Stoke imam jailed for supporting Islamic State group Sentencing, Judge Rebecca Poulet QC said he had preached hatred and division. His encouragement of terrorism and support for Isis was calculated and intentional at a time of terrible terrorist incidents, she said. Hussain was Pakistani born and had no intention of integrating in his new country, rather he would prefer Islam to take over. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/28/british-imam-kamran-hussain-who-preached-support-for-isis-jailed-for-xxx-yearsIf this was " someone else/ non Muslim " advocating violence against Muslims it would rightly be condemned as shocking. Of course some will say that Amran Hussain has been condemned.....but what a message to give to our fellow citizens in a place of worship in our city......was Amran part of the " city" or was his allegiance elsewhere? Who is causing the threat and disharmony ……………………….. Muslim leaders hit back in Hanley church 'damaged graves' row Two quotes from the link below. "The Darul Falah centre has stressed that affected graves were already damaged and the work was carried out by English contractors. In a social media post, St John's Church stated: "We need to address and clarify some serious allegations regarding the recent clean-up efforts at St John's Church. There have been claims that individuals of the Muslim faith deliberately damaged graves and headstones, but this is completely untrue". "The individuals who physically lifted and moved these headstones were English contractors, not Muslims" Why the distinction between Muslims and English? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/muslim-leaders-hit-back-hanley-9373026?utm_source=stokeontrent_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=main_daily_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=68103bc4-b304-44a2-b3b5-f1c99a1df293…………………………………………… Obviously many on the Oatcake will turn a blind eye and call them isolated incidents, not representative of Islam. I think this view is very short sighted. There is a clash between Islam and cultures of non- believers across the world. It is irrelevant whether one or the other side is “right” , it is simply a fact that there is a clash. Be it ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban , Al Qaeda , Hamas, Hezbollah … or the many many other groups and individuals. Some have tried to close down the issue by the “racism “ card. All you are doing is avoiding the issue and betraying many people who have legitimate concerns, largely the working class. Or of course the other tactic is to vilify Farage, with somewhat childish insults, not to address the issue. …. It seems that the issue of both Euroscepticism, the growth of Islam and uncontrolled immigration has become a major issue across Europe…. Particularly , at present in France, Holland, Germany and Hungary. I’ve heard the term Knicker wetting on here , it seems to me that phrase is more appropriate for those on the Left if Islam is mentioned….there seems a panic of defence and response of insults. The Left of course has a difficult dilemma because it wants to be inclusive towards an ideology which is suspect and contravenes other values which it holds dear What is Islam….( first of all the believers close down any debate or discussion, you just need to accept and obey)…..for me a 6th century idea that has got completely out of hand. For me it was invented by Mohammed, peace be upon him, to give identity and opposition against Jews and Christians. It is stuck in the 6th century because of the Quaran, the inalterable, literal word of Allah. For me it is misogynist. Patriarchal, intolerant of other thoughts and beliefs, against homosexuality…..but most importantly inherently needs to be dominant and for others to be believers. Jihad in both senses of the meaning. A minor cult that has got out of hand.So applying the same criteria to supporters of Islam that is applied to “ followers” of Farage……are they all intolerant, misogynists 9 in fact showing many of the traits of Fascism). Or Islam indeed may be true and we all should become believers.( for the record I think people should believe what they want, as long as it does not harm other) Some have said to me , that I am describing extreme Islam. Well actually, the characteristics I have described do have their roots in the Quaran and I believe it to be true Islam….but herein lies the problem….I genuinely believe that the vast majority of Muslims in this country wish to live in peace and harmony and are prepared to be tolerant of others. Unfortunately, when things ( for the want of a better phrase) become out of hand it is the extremists that will dictate what happens. Eg in the second world war, IMO, most ordinary Germans , French, British did not want War , but that’s what they got. Likewise most Ukrainians and Russians don’t want the current conflict. If things do “ get out of hand” in this country many ordinary people, Muslim and Non Muslim will be forced to decide which side they are on….IMO it could be reduced to that……( Eg as much as the scholars on here have quite rightly made a distinction between Zionism and Judaism etc….eventually it will boil down to anti Jew/ anti Islam). Other views are possible. Farage , for me has hardly changed or influenced anyone. What has happened , he has articulated what many people already believe and has taken a lead on it. Villified by many, but as I’ve said, his concerns about immigration are simply replicated across Europe, and indeed the world. If Farage or the “Right “ had the same track record as Islam then he would be assassinated on here. The problem we face and Starmer faces is what to do about the growing influence of Islam. ( the necessary disclaimer usual For the record I feel quite at home with Muslims , have Muslim friends and would hazard a guess that I have been to more Mosques than most posters. I don’t want to expel , hurt , harm or attack anyone, including Muslims. Being pragmatic, I would like to see a harmonious, if possible, multi cultural country and world.) Amongst many of his challenges I hope Starmer does find a way of solving the Islam problem, which is also tied up with population growth and immigration. Alongside the economy. The environment. The EU, International Relations, the NHS he has many battles…..I hope he does well and as many have said , it is like a breath of fresh air, a new optimism…..but I think his biggest problem is going to be Islam ( perhaps it shouldn’t be but Labour are good at incorporating problems into the heart of the movement and destroying themselves) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuynen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
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Post by elystokie on Jul 7, 2024 11:14:30 GMT
I remember my 'fee' for babysitting my sister was a copy of 'War Cry' that my parents had picked up in the boozer 😄 Closest I got to being a Christian was watching The Spinners on the telly 🙂 You didn't like a bit of Bruce Kent or Archbishop Desmond back in the day? Vaguely heard the names but that's about it 🙂 Just The Spinners, think they may have been on after The Wheeltappers and Shunters 🤔 They were like the religious 'Fishermans Friends' of their day 😄
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 7, 2024 11:22:09 GMT
You didn't like a bit of Bruce Kent or Archbishop Desmond back in the day? Vaguely heard the names but that's about it 🙂 Just The Spinners, think they may have been on after The Wheeltappers and Shunters 🤔 They were like the religious 'Fishermans Friends' of their day 😄 And Cliff.......
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