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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 17:31:23 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 17:31:23 GMT
Doesn't seem to be if you look at almost any league table. Who were the last team to achieve anything significant that were really good defensively but didn't score many? Luton last season....... It's just not a blueprint for success. Why would anyone try to emulate the least likely way of being successful. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 17:41:36 GMT
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Post by shakermaker on Apr 25, 2024 17:41:36 GMT
It's just not a blueprint for success. Why would anyone try to emulate the least likely way of being successful. Luton’s blueprint only worked because they had a top striker who didn’t miss many games. He scored over a third of their goals. Without thim they’d have been nowhere. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 17:47:24 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Apr 25, 2024 17:47:24 GMT
Problem is that it's harder to score goals than to stop them.  Doesn't seem to be if you look at almost any league table. Who were the last team to achieve anything significant that were really good defensively but didn't score many? Most Italian world cup winners. Greece when they won the Euroes, there are so many examples out there.  |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 17:54:26 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 17:54:26 GMT
Doesn't seem to be if you look at almost any league table. Who were the last team to achieve anything significant that were really good defensively but didn't score many? Most Italian world cup winners. Greece when they won the Euroes, there are so many examples out there. Yeah they're all ages ago. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 17:56:35 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 17:56:35 GMT
It's just not a blueprint for success. Why would anyone try to emulate the least likely way of being successful. Luton’s blueprint only worked because they had a top striker who didn’t miss many games. He scored over a third of their goals. Without thim they’d have been nowhere. Honestly some of our fans are so obsessed with dour low scoring football they refuse to see their hand in front of their face. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 18:15:24 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Apr 25, 2024 18:15:24 GMT
Most Italian world cup winners. Greece when they won the Euroes, there are so many examples out there. Yeah they're all ages ago. Time after time inferior teams are able to nick a win due to good defending, just like Everton did yesterday. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 18:32:35 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 18:32:35 GMT
Yeah they're all ages ago. Time after time inferior teams are able to nick a win due to good defending, just like Everton did yesterday. Who aspires to be inferior? And it's still no blueprint for success, just being the grit in someones shoe. Liverpool or Everton it's an easy choice for anyone sane. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 18:40:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 18:40:19 GMT
Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many. I am not sure we have evidence Junior is a better defender. He is not good at anticipating danger eg Leicester away, gets caught out of position like Cardiff and gets booked for reckless tackles eg Watford. I have also heard from several sources the plan for opponents is to let him have the ball as his technique and decision-making in possession are poor. As yet, we couldn’t rely on him fir a season. One is our player who, if we develop right, could be sold at great profit. The other is another team’s player who, if we develop right, they could sell (possibly not at profit given how much they spent). Bring in a seasoned pro as a back up right back and give Junior the opportunity to develop. We are not going up or down because of our right back. |
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Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 18:48:53 GMT
I am not sure we have evidence Junior is a better defender. He is not good at anticipating danger eg Leicester away, gets caught out of position like Cardiff and gets booked for reckless tackles eg Watford. I have also heard from several sources the plan for opponents is to let him have the ball as his technique and decision-making in possession are poor. As yet, we couldn’t rely on him fir a season. One is our player who, if we develop right, could be sold at great profit. The other is another team’s player who, if we develop right, they could sell (possibly not at profit given how much they spent). Bring in a seasoned pro as a back up right back and give Junior the opportunity to develop. We are not going up or down because of our right back. Maybe need to have a word with many who thought we were going down because we didn't sign a LB. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 18:53:09 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 25, 2024 18:53:09 GMT
Hoever has certainly been inconsistent but obviously played a lot more. He has pedigree coming from a level above whereas Tchamadeu is untried at championship level. Hopefully with a full pre season he comes out all guns blazing. Would still need another right back though you’d think. Gooch can do a job but after that the cupboards a bit bare. yaaaaawwwnnn.. Joking before you go one Do you disagree? Be nice to see some kind of opinion either way. Got high hopes for Junior but he’s young, pretty raw and inexperienced at this level. Hopefully he’ll hit the ground running come August. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 19:02:23 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Apr 25, 2024 19:02:23 GMT
Time after time inferior teams are able to nick a win due to good defending, just like Everton did yesterday. Who aspires to be inferior? And it's still no blueprint for success, just being the grit in someones shoe. Liverpool or Everton it's an easy choice for anyone sane. The better team didn't win because the inferior team defended well. It's like Burnley who walked this division last year are trying to outplay the other PL teams who have better players in almost every position. Dyche made it possible to stay up by playing Pulis-ball as we did. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 19:14:31 GMT
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Post by milton58 on Apr 25, 2024 19:14:31 GMT
yaaaaawwwnnn.. Joking before you go one Do you disagree? Be nice to see some kind of opinion either way. Got high hopes for Junior but he’s young, pretty raw and inexperienced at this level. Hopefully he’ll hit the ground running come August. i would love to see hoever putting the red and stripes on next season he's got his faults but all of our defence as. Junior was hit and miss imo he was trying to impress all but he did look a prospect f |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 19:21:14 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 25, 2024 19:21:14 GMT
Who aspires to be inferior? And it's still no blueprint for success, just being the grit in someones shoe. Liverpool or Everton it's an easy choice for anyone sane. The better team didn't win because the inferior team defended well. It's like Burnley who walked this division last year are trying to outplay the other PL teams who have better players in almost every position. Dyche made it possible to stay up by playing Pulis-ball as we did. Well Pulis is ancient history and I very much doubt Dycheball will be tolerated by Everton much longer. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 19:28:01 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 25, 2024 19:28:01 GMT
Do you disagree? Be nice to see some kind of opinion either way. Got high hopes for Junior but he’s young, pretty raw and inexperienced at this level. Hopefully he’ll hit the ground running come August. i would love to see hoever putting the red and stripes on next season he's got his faults but all of our defence as. Junior was hit and miss imo he was trying to impress all but he did look a prospect f Agree about Junior, Hoever I’m divided on, he’s certainly come good in the last few weeks. Just more consistency and concentration he could be up there with the better full backs in the league. |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 23:00:41 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 25, 2024 23:00:41 GMT
It's just not a blueprint for success. Why would anyone try to emulate the least likely way of being successful. You asked for an example, I gave you one from last season...... |
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 23:14:09 GMT
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Post by march4 on Apr 25, 2024 23:14:09 GMT
Another season of Hoever at Stoke would be a real bonus.
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Hoever
Apr 25, 2024 23:14:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 23:14:31 GMT
One is our player who, if we develop right, could be sold at great profit. The other is another team’s player who, if we develop right, they could sell (possibly not at profit given how much they spent). Bring in a seasoned pro as a back up right back and give Junior the opportunity to develop. We are not going up or down because of our right back. Maybe need to have a word with many who thought we were going down because we didn't sign a LB. There’s a big difference between playing a midfielder at left back and playing a right back at right back, especially when that right back doesn’t look far off (when he isn’t told to play as “inverted fullback”). Even then though, we wouldn’t go down because of Thompson. We would go down because, as a unit, not one of our defenders are good enough. |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 8:07:54 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Apr 26, 2024 8:07:54 GMT
It's just not a blueprint for success. Why would anyone try to emulate the least likely way of being successful. You asked for an example, I gave you one from last season...... It was an example of a team that didn’t score as many as the other teams in the top six that’s not quite the same as our current strike rate that is only equalled in it paucity by teams that will get relegated even 1 of those is likely to end up having scored more than us it’s highly highly highly unlikely to result in anything positive trying to mitigate it by being more defensive or simply defending better. The rate at which we score goals simply has to significantly improve for us to have even a satisfactory season never mind be challenging at the top end. As another poster has pointed out prolific strikers are like rocking horse shit so you need goals all through the side to compensate. Hoever is probably the only player in our squad with a favourable rate of output for his position compared to other teams in this division. All this we need to defend better and then we won’t need our FB’s to produce output is for the birds. Very few modern FB’s are out and out defenders. A significant proportion of our fan base live in the past. |
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Post by spitshaw on Apr 26, 2024 9:31:47 GMT
Hoever hasn't made a mistake in something like 7 games or so - he's actually been pretty good in that run of games, and over the season i'm sure he's contributed to more goals for us than against. He's only young and will keep getting better, and he works really well with Mr Million on the right side. I'd absolutely take him again
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 10:05:38 GMT
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Post by george2again on Apr 26, 2024 10:05:38 GMT
i would love to see hoever putting the red and stripes on next season he's got his faults but all of our defence as. Junior was hit and miss imo he was trying to impress all but he did look a prospect f Agree about Junior, Hoever I’m divided on, he’s certainly come good in the last few weeks. Just more consistency and concentration he could be up there with the better full backs in the league. Posted elsewhere with the analogy of TAA , you either get defending or you don’t. Hard to coach someone awareness and positional sense, you either get or you don’t. Leader like Coady at back might bark instructions to him. |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 12:30:51 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 26, 2024 12:30:51 GMT
Agree about Junior, Hoever I’m divided on, he’s certainly come good in the last few weeks. Just more consistency and concentration he could be up there with the better full backs in the league. Posted elsewhere with the analogy of TAA , you either get defending or you don’t. Hard to coach someone awareness and positional sense, you either get or you don’t. Leader like Coady at back might bark instructions to him.  Most productive FB in Premier League history, fucking wank |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 12:36:29 GMT
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Post by bertiestan on Apr 26, 2024 12:36:29 GMT
Posted elsewhere with the analogy of TAA , you either get defending or you don’t. Hard to coach someone awareness and positional sense, you either get or you don’t. Leader like Coady at back might bark instructions to him. Most productive FB in Premier League history, fucking wank My god I actually agree😂😂😂🔴⚪️ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2024 12:39:58 GMT
I'd like him at Stoke but that depends what happens with Leris. We have junior and Leris who can both play wing back and right back. Arguably gooch too.
I think we'll be targeting left back, centre back, striker ahead of this area
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 12:43:29 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 26, 2024 12:43:29 GMT
Most productive FB in Premier League history, fucking wank My god I actually agree😂😂😂🔴⚪️ Don't suppose it's ever crossed his mind that both TAA and his manager have a far better idea of the role of a FB in the modern game than he has. |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 12:46:29 GMT
Post by baconburger on Apr 26, 2024 12:46:29 GMT
I'd like him at Stoke but that depends what happens with Leris. We have junior and Leris who can both play wing back and right back. Arguably gooch too. I think we'll be targeting left back, centre back, striker ahead of this area Hoever and Junior to compete at RB Leris & Gooch  |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 13:02:46 GMT
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Post by bertiestan on Apr 26, 2024 13:02:46 GMT
I'd like him at Stoke but that depends what happens with Leris. We have junior and Leris who can both play wing back and right back. Arguably gooch too. I think we'll be targeting left back, centre back, striker ahead of this area Hoever and Junior to compete at RB Leris & Gooch 100% mate🔴⚪️ |
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Post by baconburger on Apr 26, 2024 13:08:57 GMT
Hoever and Junior to compete at RB Leris & Gooch 100% mate🔴⚪️ I don't dislike Leris or Gooch particularly I just don't know what they are even after watching them for a season. Utility players? |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 13:34:38 GMT
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Post by yellowsnowman on Apr 26, 2024 13:34:38 GMT
I don't dislike Leris or Gooch particularly I just don't know what they are even after watching them for a season. Utility players? Yup |
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Post by bertiestan on Apr 26, 2024 13:36:12 GMT
I don't dislike Leris or Gooch particularly I just don't know what they are even after watching them for a season. Utility players? Nail on head mate….you can have too many , we have one in Thompson who I’m more than happy to keep btw🔴⚪️ |
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Hoever
Apr 26, 2024 14:58:29 GMT
Post by MilanStokie on Apr 26, 2024 14:58:29 GMT
I don't dislike Leris or Gooch particularly I just don't know what they are even after watching them for a season. Utility players? That is exactly what they are, decent in several positions but not actually very good in any single one of them. I don't dislike either of them either and think both could be useful squad players next season. I liked Leris at the start as it happens, but he is missing the killer instinct. And tbf, when we were crying out for options due to injuries and out of form players, Leris never got a sniff, even off the bench. I dont think SS particularly rates him and wouldn't be surprised to see him back in Italy before the start of next season. |
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Most productive FB in Premier League history, fucking wank 
