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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 28, 2024 13:56:43 GMT
A ban from football grounds seems entirely reasonable to me and not over proportionate. It's not like they are being locked up for it. I wouldn't want these kind of people in a football ground and be paying to hear this crap tbh especially when representing my own club. There definitely needs to be more education around this which shouldn't be the case since it seems like basic decency and human values. But unfortunately that's where we are at and some idiots still don't seem to get it. I just hope they are ashamed about it, because that's how you learn sometimes! A possible alternative to bans might be an individual education programme, where attendance is games is dependent upon attending sessions aimed at developing understanding of how hurtful and upsetting this can be - maybe even meeting face to face the families of Hillsborough/Munich/Istambul etc victims.
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Post by nottsover60 on Mar 28, 2024 14:17:49 GMT
Yes itβs unforgivable. That said so is booing the national anthem. So is teaching youngsters the warped view of Hillsboro in Merseyside schools . Time Liverpool Grew up . Holding totally unjustified grudges going back 40 plus years ago . What is the warped view of Hillsborough you say is being taught in Merseyside schools ? If that were true, it would be a serious matter of teachers professional behaviour which should be addressed. I would also like to talk our FSA affiliates in Liverpool about it to get their view. "Time Liverpool grew up" sounds like a prejudiced generalisation to me. We have been discussing the general issue of tragedy chanting in the FSA, including after the recent Man U v Liverpool game. It was also good to see on the news last night that Ex-Man U and Liverpool players have been visiting local schools to talk the kids about how inappropriate it is. But my perception is that it's not just, or even mainly, young supporters doing it. Many older fans, who should know better, are doing it. I'm afraid its been heard at various clubs. Sadly, as we see from this link, including Stoke City. It includes Hillsborough, Munich and Istambul chanting. But I would also include chanting about Jimmy Saville being "one of your own" ( which a significant number of our fans did at Elland Road) and "Lucy Letby one of your own" directed at Hereford fans, as inappropriate chanting. Saville had victims in Leeds. Letby killed babies. People talk about self-policing, which is fine as a principle, but in practice at a game, how do you stop it if a significant number of fans are doing it ? I would like to see more current players, not just ex-pros, saying it. Possibly even stopping playing in the game until it stops, which would be a high-profile way of getting the message across ? Agree totally except for the bit about teachers. Of course you are right if it is being taught in schools but I suspect the poster may have been talking about what is being taught in the community rather than at school. Still wrong but far more difficult to police. As you say this sort of thing as a crowd chant can't be policed and needs to be dealt with in an educative way, not by teachers but by society in general and punishing these two, and others like them who can be identified, might make people who see nothing wrong in tragedy chanting stop and think before they join in.
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Post by tuum on Mar 28, 2024 16:18:26 GMT
A ban from football grounds seems entirely reasonable to me and not over proportionate. It's not like they are being locked up for it. I wouldn't want these kind of people in a football ground and be paying to hear this crap tbh especially when representing my own club. There definitely needs to be more education around this which shouldn't be the case since it seems like basic decency and human values. But unfortunately that's where we are at and some idiots still don't seem to get it. I just hope they are ashamed about it, because that's how you learn sometimes! A possible alternative to bans might be an individual education programme, where attendance is games is dependent upon attending sessions aimed at developing understanding of how hurtful and upsetting this can be - maybe even meeting face to face the families of Hillsborough/Munich/Istambul etc victims. I liked your post as a possible compromise. It should not be a criminal offence but I am still uneasy with your suggestion. I do not see chanting at a football game as being sufficiently proximal as to cause offence or distress.
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Post by willieeetmiout on Mar 28, 2024 22:04:44 GMT
It's called the victim surcharge because its a surcharge that funds victim services? You say no one, I do. "I call it this so thats what it is". After calling someone out so strongly on this, this is hilarious π Oh my god. I was just reading this......look what they call it. Shut it down. Shut. it. Down www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68674238.amp
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Post by lstokie on Mar 29, 2024 0:18:24 GMT
Yeahhh... Not the same thing is it mate. Spent all day crawling for that π€£ Shut what down? You okay
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Post by willieeetmiout on Mar 29, 2024 7:37:23 GMT
Yeahhh... Not the same thing is it mate. Spent all day crawling for that π€£ Shut what down? You okay Tis tho int it mate
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Post by skip on Mar 29, 2024 9:35:33 GMT
A possible alternative to bans might be an individual education programme, where attendance is games is dependent upon attending sessions aimed at developing understanding of how hurtful and upsetting this can be - maybe even meeting face to face the families of Hillsborough/Munich/Istambul etc victims. I liked your post as a possible compromise. It should not be a criminal offence but I am still uneasy with your suggestion. I do not see chanting at a football game as being sufficiently proximal as to cause offence or distress. Shows a total lack of class though doesn't it. No better than some shitbag teasing someone over the death of a relative.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 29, 2024 10:14:02 GMT
I liked your post as a possible compromise. It should not be a criminal offence but I am still uneasy with your suggestion. I do not see chanting at a football game as being sufficiently proximal as to cause offence or distress. Shows a total lack of class though doesn't it. No better than some shitbag teasing someone over the death of a relative. The Harry Roberts chant to the police was heard every away game it seemed for years. I guess many had no idea who he was but just joined it. Not all for this ban everyone, finding racism where it doesn't exist, sack him, cancel this etc etc but a ban justifies this
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Post by Squeekster on Mar 29, 2024 10:42:43 GMT
Shows a total lack of class though doesn't it. No better than some shitbag teasing someone over the death of a relative. The Harry Roberts chant to the police was heard every away game it seemed for years. I guess many had no idea who he was but just joined it. Not all for this ban everyone, finding racism where it doesn't exist, sack him, cancel this etc etc but a ban justifies this And at the Vic in front of the of the boothen whenever the old bill walk passed followed by de deda de deda well something similar.
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