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Post by Gob Bluth on Mar 7, 2024 10:53:06 GMT
Complaining about exploiting financial loopholes after selling your assets a few days before it was outlawed.
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Post by J-Roar on Mar 7, 2024 15:06:42 GMT
QPR were promised if they came back down to the EFL they would be taken to the cleaners by the EFL, quick meeting in the bush and they agreed to pay a poultry fine and bingo all is well, Leicester fucked over schools and small businesses and came out on top of the world, hope they get hammered! They paid off the EFL in chicken? Blackburn will be sound if they ever get charged with financial irregularities. Where's the korma button when you need it? |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 7, 2024 17:05:59 GMT
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Post by nott1 on Mar 7, 2024 18:44:32 GMT
Forest have the same problem. Sold Brennan Johnson too late!
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Post by Gob Bluth on Mar 7, 2024 22:03:49 GMT
League places are going to be decided by lawyers in the near future if they aren’t already. We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things. They’re still arguing about Manchini payments while Everton are having the points taken off them for much later breaches.
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Post by onionman on Mar 7, 2024 22:20:56 GMT
They paid off the EFL in chicken? Blackburn will be sound if they ever get charged with financial irregularities. Where's the korma button when you need it? In the kitchen at Sangam’s. |
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Post by davethebass on Mar 7, 2024 22:29:37 GMT
They paid off the EFL in chicken? Blackburn will be sound if they ever get charged with financial irregularities. Where's the korma button when you need it? I don't believe in korma |
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ian57
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Post by ian57 on Mar 8, 2024 12:57:21 GMT
I would love to see Leicester fucked over and start next season on -10 points just to see the reaction from that jug eared crisp munching cunt wipe lineker.
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Post by maine on Mar 8, 2024 13:53:45 GMT
Gob Bluth said
' We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things'
From over here it looks like a page out of a former president's playbook. Hope neither of them get away with it.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 8, 2024 15:07:42 GMT
Gob Bluth said ' We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things' From over here it looks like a page out of a former president's playbook. Hope neither of them get away with it. Completely different to Everton, where it was basically a case of "do you admit to going over the set amount?" and they said yes. Everton's was straightforward; there's a limit and it's a simple task to see if they went over it (especially when they admitted to doing so). Forest's is a little more complex than Everton's due to Forest trying to mitigate by saying they'd have been worse off financially to sell Johnson any earlier than they did,so although they broke the rules they did so to ensure more financial stability than they would have had by actually sticking to the rules. So that's taking a bit longer than Everton's did. Man City however have over 100 charges of conspiracy to fraud to answer to. 100% different to the Everton situation and far, far more serious. If people want Man City to get in trouble, it's right to take as long as is needed for BOTH sides to gather the evidence needed. No investigation into any type of fraud is done and dusted in a week or two and no one (including the accusers or investigators) have said its all down to Man City dragging things out. Thats something the public have decided upon themselves to have a dig at Man City (whilst also ignoring the completely different charges and massively different complexities of the cases with the different clubs). BOTH sides will be taking their time to check, double check and triple check absolutely everything they have before proceeding. If people want them to be dealt with in the same amount of time as the Everton situation, then there's pretty much no chance of finding them guilty of anything, as there's no way you could put any competent case of this size together in any kind of short time period. Completely different charges for completely different offences. It's like comparing the length of time it takes to put together evidence for a murder trial as it does for a speeding ticket.Fraud in any industry isn't easy to prove, especially sport and entertainment due to the nature of so many different parties constantly being financially involved. Conspiracy is even harder as you have to have evidence of the same offence against multiple different parties and prove they all intentionally conspired together. Don't get me wrong, I hope Man City are properly taken to task if found guilty of ANY of the charges but people comparing the Man City situation to the Everton and Forest situations and how long they took, are comparing apples with oranges. They're nothing like each other. In terms of the thread OP, I believe Leeds will be in a similar situation as Leicester if they go up also. |
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Post by chigstoke on Mar 8, 2024 15:53:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 15:54:39 GMT
We're at a stage now where they might aswell just let go. If we're at the point of points deductions post promotion then it's game over for me.
What's the point of it all?
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 8, 2024 16:04:01 GMT
We're at a stage now where they might aswell just let go. If we're at the point of points deductions post promotion then it's game over for me. What's the point of it all? Totally agree lookers The Everton points deduction then reinstating some is making a bit of a mockery out if it all, especially when so many millions at stake Did someone say a few weeks back tha John Coates had hinted at is being scrapped? |
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Mar 8, 2024 16:38:03 GMT
Do the various PSR amd FFP rules work or do any good?
I can't help but think it's become an unmanageable farce, whilst hampering a lot of clubs, and not seemingly having the impact that it was created to have.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 8, 2024 16:38:17 GMT
We're at a stage now where they might aswell just let go. If we're at the point of points deductions post promotion then it's game over for me. What's the point of it all? Totally agree lookers The Everton points deduction then reinstating some is making a bit of a mockery out if it all, especially when so many millions at stake Did someone say a few weeks back tha John Coates had hinted at is being scrapped? Agreed. It’s total bollocks isn’t it. |
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Post by northernstokie on Mar 8, 2024 16:49:16 GMT
We're at a stage now where they might aswell just let go. If we're at the point of points deductions post promotion then it's game over for me. What's the point of it all? Its worse for them if they get a deduction next season though. If they got it this season then they would still prob get promoted but next year in the prem starting on minus points is not ideal for them. |
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ian57
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Post by ian57 on Mar 8, 2024 17:22:14 GMT
Just as bad imo is say we get relegated by 1pt when according to the pgmol we should have had 6 penalties awarded. scoring one of them might turn out to be the difference between staying up an going down.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 8, 2024 17:28:21 GMT
We're at a stage now where they might aswell just let go. If we're at the point of points deductions post promotion then it's game over for me. What's the point of it all? Its worse for them if they get a deduction next season though. If they got it this season then they would still prob get promoted but next year in the prem starting on minus points is not ideal for them. They would get in the Play-offs but might be tricky for them to get auto promotion as they would 5 points behind Leeds. |
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Post by northernstokie on Mar 8, 2024 17:29:46 GMT
Gob Bluth said ' We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things' From over here it looks like a page out of a former president's playbook. Hope neither of them get away with it. Thats the annoying thing you can hire lawyers but surely you have broke the rules or you haven't, it should be that simple |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 8, 2024 17:31:50 GMT
Just as bad imo is say we get relegated by 1pt when according to the pgmol we should have had 6 penalties awarded. scoring one of them might turn out to be the difference between staying up an going down. Referee errors aren't the same as cheating or breaking rules though (which is what the other clubs mentioned are acused of). Referee errors in every league have been around since referees were introduced. We could introduce VAR into the EFL...but at the cost of over £1mill per team, per season I don't think most clubs would want it. You can't blame relegation on a ref error where "just one" could make the difference on staying up. We (or any other club) will also have had over another 30 odd games (or 40, if below the Prem) to score that one extra goal over the course of the season. It's a weak as piss excuse for relegation. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 8, 2024 17:40:59 GMT
Gob Bluth said ' We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things' From over here it looks like a page out of a former president's playbook. Hope neither of them get away with it. Thats the annoying thing you can hire lawyers but surely you have broke the rules or you haven't, it should be that simple Everton's was that simple. It was a simple case of going over the allowed limit. As you say, easy enough to say whether they did or didn't break the rules. Man City's case however is 100% NOTHING like the Everton case. They're not the same or even similar charges. Why do people keep conflating and comparing the two?? If you think that over 100 charges of fraud and conspiracy to fraud are "that simple" to sort out, you should be making millions in the legal field, as actual business legal teams usually take months to prepare for those types of cases. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 8, 2024 20:15:40 GMT
Gob Bluth said ' We see it already with Man City, hire stacks of lawyers and it delays things' From over here it looks like a page out of a former president's playbook. Hope neither of them get away with it. Completely different to Everton, where it was basically a case of "do you admit to going over the set amount?" and they said yes. Everton's was straightforward; there's a limit and it's a simple task to see if they went over it (especially when they admitted to doing so). Forest's is a little more complex than Everton's due to Forest trying to mitigate by saying they'd have been worse off financially to sell Johnson any earlier than they did,so although they broke the rules they did so to ensure more financial stability than they would have had by actually sticking to the rules. So that's taking a bit longer than Everton's did. Man City however have over 100 charges of conspiracy to fraud to answer to. 100% different to the Everton situation and far, far more serious. If people want Man City to get in trouble, it's right to take as long as is needed for BOTH sides to gather the evidence needed. No investigation into any type of fraud is done and dusted in a week or two and no one (including the accusers or investigators) have said its all down to Man City dragging things out. Thats something the public have decided upon themselves to have a dig at Man City (whilst also ignoring the completely different charges and massively different complexities of the cases with the different clubs). BOTH sides will be taking their time to check, double check and triple check absolutely everything they have before proceeding. If people want them to be dealt with in the same amount of time as the Everton situation, then there's pretty much no chance of finding them guilty of anything, as there's no way you could put any competent case of this size together in any kind of short time period. Completely different charges for completely different offences. It's like comparing the length of time it takes to put together evidence for a murder trial as it does for a speeding ticket.Fraud in any industry isn't easy to prove, especially sport and entertainment due to the nature of so many different parties constantly being financially involved. Conspiracy is even harder as you have to have evidence of the same offence against multiple different parties and prove they all intentionally conspired together. Don't get me wrong, I hope Man City are properly taken to task if found guilty of ANY of the charges but people comparing the Man City situation to the Everton and Forest situations and how long they took, are comparing apples with oranges. They're nothing like each other. In terms of the thread OP, I believe Leeds will be in a similar situation as Leicester if they go up also. I think you are basically right but I wouldn't describe the Everton case as straightforward, as can be seen if you read either the 41-page original judgement or the 61-page appeal judgement. Although it was a single charge, the evidence and the arguments advanced by both prosecution and defence were very complex. Just what will be involved in preparing the case and defence and hearing the 115  charges, rather blows my mind ! And who knows how long it will take to hear the case, and then the highly likely appeal if there is a guilty finding on any of the 115 charges. Not to mention what any sanction would be ! |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 8, 2024 20:30:06 GMT
I've limited sympathy for Leicester. Especially when clubs around them have struggled and sold to comply with rules. But the PSR rules are becoming a bit of a farce. Bottom half clubs spend beyond their means because that's how the PL works. If you don't spend beyond your means, you risk being outpaced by your rivals and going down, let alone being able to compete with the few very big clubs. If the PL starts to really clamp down on spending, it is going to become even more of a predicable closed shop than it already is and the existing hierarchies in the division will become permanently entrenched. Let alone the fact that it's going to quickly become a PR disaster for the Premier League if they keep coming after clubs like Forest, Wolves, Leicester etc. while Man City have hundreds of unresolved charges and Chelsea are handing out 8-year contracts to £100m+ signings with impunity. I am genuinely all for making football more sustainable and getting absurd spending down. But the elephant in the room is that nothing in the history of the sport has done more to create this culture of reckless spending than the inception of the Premier League itself*. Trying to restore some order into proceedings now is the PL closing the stable door about 25 years after the horse bolted. *(The re-formatting of the European Cup into the Champions League a close second). But there is potentially a very significant development looming, which we have been campaigning for, namely the new statutory independent football regulator, following the Tracey Crouch report. We expect the Bill to be laid before Parliament by the Government very soon, and it has all-party support. Clubs Financial management will be a key part of the regulator's remit. A key factor in all this is greater financial distribution from the PL downwards. The current absurd imbalance is one of the root causes of the problems. The Government has said it wants the leagues to reach agreement on this, but at present they are unable to do so. The Bill will include a provision for the regulator to have "back-up" powers to impose a settlement if no agreement can be reached, but whilst that is welcome in principle, it is absolutely a case of the devil being in the detail on how that would work. We await to see exactly how the draft legislation is worded and if we are not happy, we will campaign for an amendment, as no doubt will the EFL. It's very interesting times - by far the most interesting in the two decades I have been chair of the FSA ! |
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Post by diemauer on Mar 8, 2024 21:34:58 GMT
Malcolm,could the pending election mean the independent regulator gets delayed or kicked into the long grass even?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 8, 2024 22:26:12 GMT
Completely different to Everton, where it was basically a case of "do you admit to going over the set amount?" and they said yes. Everton's was straightforward; there's a limit and it's a simple task to see if they went over it (especially when they admitted to doing so). Forest's is a little more complex than Everton's due to Forest trying to mitigate by saying they'd have been worse off financially to sell Johnson any earlier than they did,so although they broke the rules they did so to ensure more financial stability than they would have had by actually sticking to the rules. So that's taking a bit longer than Everton's did. Man City however have over 100 charges of conspiracy to fraud to answer to. 100% different to the Everton situation and far, far more serious. If people want Man City to get in trouble, it's right to take as long as is needed for BOTH sides to gather the evidence needed. No investigation into any type of fraud is done and dusted in a week or two and no one (including the accusers or investigators) have said its all down to Man City dragging things out. Thats something the public have decided upon themselves to have a dig at Man City (whilst also ignoring the completely different charges and massively different complexities of the cases with the different clubs). BOTH sides will be taking their time to check, double check and triple check absolutely everything they have before proceeding. If people want them to be dealt with in the same amount of time as the Everton situation, then there's pretty much no chance of finding them guilty of anything, as there's no way you could put any competent case of this size together in any kind of short time period. Completely different charges for completely different offences. It's like comparing the length of time it takes to put together evidence for a murder trial as it does for a speeding ticket.Fraud in any industry isn't easy to prove, especially sport and entertainment due to the nature of so many different parties constantly being financially involved. Conspiracy is even harder as you have to have evidence of the same offence against multiple different parties and prove they all intentionally conspired together. Don't get me wrong, I hope Man City are properly taken to task if found guilty of ANY of the charges but people comparing the Man City situation to the Everton and Forest situations and how long they took, are comparing apples with oranges. They're nothing like each other. In terms of the thread OP, I believe Leeds will be in a similar situation as Leicester if they go up also. I think you are basically right but I wouldn't describe the Everton case as straightforward, as can be seen if you read either the 41-page original judgement or the 61-page appeal judgement. Although it was a single charge, the evidence and the arguments advanced by both prosecution and defence were very complex. Just what will be involved in preparing the case and defence and hearing the 115 charges, rather blows my mind ! And who knows how long it will take to hear the case, and then the highly likely appeal if there is a guilty finding on any of the 115 charges. Not to mention what any sanction would be ! Agreed that i perhaps underplayed the Everton situation but i dont think it's by much, to be honest. I merely meant it was a case of a clear limit was set down and had been broken and Everton admiitted to it. It actually was relatively simple tp apportion guilt in those circumstances. From what I can gather, the bulk of the literature surrounding the case and then the appeal wasn't about the verdict though but the actual size of the penalty imposed and Everton trying to put forward mitigation to lessen any punishment. Either way...as you say, the Man City sitution is going to take a long time to resolve. People need to make up their minds basically...do they just want to see it dealt with quickly? If so, they have to accept that'll mean shoddy, half arsed legal work with very little chance of proving any guilt. Do they want to see Man City properly dealt with? If so, they have to accept that charges like this will take a long time to resolve due to the severity and complexity of the charges. This will be an important decision moving forwards in the future of the Premier league. They need to do everything they can to ensure sure its done right, properly and fairly, not just rush it because of the general public's desire for instant gossip and drama. I can still understand the public clamouring for information though, it's the world nowadays but what I find distasteful is other clubs whining about it and Everton saying they're being picked on, when these rules and processes are what they, including Everton, all voted to bring in in the first place. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 8, 2024 22:39:41 GMT
Malcolm,could the pending election mean the independent regulator gets delayed or kicked into the long grass even? Good question ! Complacency is always dangerous but we don't think so. The Government are committed to bringing it forward in this Parliament and, unlike most issues, the opposition are supportive. I suspect no politicians see it as a vote loser ! How many people do you know who say - today's football is fine, if it ain't broke don't fix it ! (apart from the Premier League that is ! :  . We understand that even if the election is called in May it is likely to be in the measures which the front benches agree to fast track through before Parliament is dissolved. And even if that doesn't happen, if Labour win they have said they will do it in the first 100 days. We are more concerned that the wording on financial distribution might not be as strong as we want, than we are about the whole thing not happening. And there will be plenty of other good stuff in there apart from that point. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 8, 2024 22:40:52 GMT
I've limited sympathy for Leicester. Especially when clubs around them have struggled and sold to comply with rules. But the PSR rules are becoming a bit of a farce. Bottom half clubs spend beyond their means because that's how the PL works. If you don't spend beyond your means, you risk being outpaced by your rivals and going down, let alone being able to compete with the few very big clubs. If the PL starts to really clamp down on spending, it is going to become even more of a predicable closed shop than it already is and the existing hierarchies in the division will become permanently entrenched. Let alone the fact that it's going to quickly become a PR disaster for the Premier League if they keep coming after clubs like Forest, Wolves, Leicester etc. while Man City have hundreds of unresolved charges and Chelsea are handing out 8-year contracts to £100m+ signings with impunity. I am genuinely all for making football more sustainable and getting absurd spending down. But the elephant in the room is that nothing in the history of the sport has done more to create this culture of reckless spending than the inception of the Premier League itself*. Trying to restore some order into proceedings now is the PL closing the stable door about 25 years after the horse bolted. *(The re-formatting of the European Cup into the Champions League a close second). But there is potentially a very significant development looming, which we have been campaigning for, namely the new statutory independent football regulator, following the Tracey Crouch report. We expect the Bill to be laid before Parliament by the Government very soon, and it has all-party support. Clubs Financial management will be a key part of the regulator's remit. A key factor in all this is greater financial distribution from the PL downwards. The current absurd imbalance is one of the root causes of the problems. The Government has said it wants the leagues to reach agreement on this, but at present they are unable to do so. The Bill will include a provision for the regulator to have "back-up" powers to impose a settlement if no agreement can be reached, but whilst that is welcome in principle, it is absolutely a case of the devil being in the detail on how that would work. We await to see exactly how the draft legislation is worded and if we are not happy, we will campaign for an amendment, as no doubt will the EFL. It's very interesting times - by far the most interesting in the two decades I have been chair of the FSA ! I appreciate that it's always mentioned how the Prem should be feeding more down through the pyramid etc. and I agree but will they also be looking at the distribution throughout the whole "pyramid" i.e. how the EFL actually distribute the amount received from the Prem? I believe at the moment it's something along the lines of the Championship taking around 80% of the money given by the Premier league, League one about 12% and the rest (including non-league) only get about 8% between them? Just 24 teams out of the 72 professional clubs sharing 80% of the money between just themselves. That's pretty scandalous in itself. |
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Post by diemauer on Mar 8, 2024 22:43:47 GMT
Malcolm,could the pending election mean the independent regulator gets delayed or kicked into the long grass even? Good question ! Complacency is always dangerous but we don't think so. The Government are committed to bringing it forward in this Parliament and, unlike most issues, the opposition are supportive. I suspect no politicians see it as a vote loser ! How many people do you know who say - today's football is fine, if it ain't broke don't fix it ! (apart from the Premier League that is ! : . We understand that even if the election is called in May it is likely to be in the measures which the front benches agree to fast track through before Parliament is dissolved. And even if that doesn't happen, if Labour win they have said they will do it in the first 100 days. We are more concerned that the wording on financial distribution might not be as strong as we want, than we are about the whole thing not happening. And there will be plenty of other good stuff in there apart from that point. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 9, 2024 9:56:59 GMT
But there is potentially a very significant development looming, which we have been campaigning for, namely the new statutory independent football regulator, following the Tracey Crouch report. We expect the Bill to be laid before Parliament by the Government very soon, and it has all-party support. Clubs Financial management will be a key part of the regulator's remit. A key factor in all this is greater financial distribution from the PL downwards. The current absurd imbalance is one of the root causes of the problems. The Government has said it wants the leagues to reach agreement on this, but at present they are unable to do so. The Bill will include a provision for the regulator to have "back-up" powers to impose a settlement if no agreement can be reached, but whilst that is welcome in principle, it is absolutely a case of the devil being in the detail on how that would work. We await to see exactly how the draft legislation is worded and if we are not happy, we will campaign for an amendment, as no doubt will the EFL. It's very interesting times - by far the most interesting in the two decades I have been chair of the FSA ! I appreciate that it's always mentioned how the Prem should be feeding more down through the pyramid etc. and I agree but will they also be looking at the distribution throughout the whole "pyramid" i.e. how the EFL actually distribute the amount received from the Prem? I believe at the moment it's something along the lines of the Championship taking around 80% of the money given by the Premier league, League one about 12% and the rest (including non-league) only get about 8% between them? Just 24 teams out of the 72 professional clubs sharing 80% of the money between just themselves. That's pretty scandalous in itself. Well yes, but I think that has to be seen in the context of the bigger picture. The huge gap between the PL and the rest is part of the reason for the current distribution model of the EFL. I think that gap has to be tackled first. The sums currently involved in the EFL model are chicken feed compared to those in the PL, so the EFL model is certainly not the most important target to aim at. Finally, and crucially, as part of the current negotiations between the PL and the EFL, the PL is trying to impose unacceptable conditions on the EFL as to how it will distribute any additional monies it receives. The whole system is broken. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 9, 2024 12:52:54 GMT
Clubs going into liquidation like Leicester,should be made to pay back the money they owe to firms and individuals,before they spend a single penny on new players.
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charges, rather blows my mind ! And who knows how long it will take to hear the case, and then the highly likely appeal if there is a guilty finding on any of the 115 charges. Not to mention what any sanction would be ! 
. We understand that even if the election is called in May it is likely to be in the measures which the front benches agree to fast track through before Parliament is dissolved. And even if that doesn't happen, if Labour win they have said they will do it in the first 100 days. We are more concerned that the wording on financial distribution might not be as strong as we want, than we are about the whole thing not happening. And there will be plenty of other good stuff in there apart from that point. 
