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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2024 20:27:33 GMT
Postal fraud is indeed hard to detect and prosecute. There is no need whatsoever for most of the postal votes. People do indeed need to get their id sorted out. They shouldn’t need ID Why shouldn't people need ID ?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 1, 2024 20:27:55 GMT
Yes, he convinced many people. There was a large correlation between education levels and how they voted in the referendum. I think the bigger correlation was probably more age than education though mate. Although not denying you're wrong either. But we should remember alot more young people go to university nowadays compared to 30 years ago. So if education is based on third level education and if more young people vote to remain then more "educated" people will have voted to remain. It's just more university graduates voted to remain and education comes in many forms too. www.theguardian.com/education/2008/oct/23/dumbing-down ahem.
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 20:29:28 GMT
I think the bigger correlation was probably more age than education though mate. Although not denying you're wrong either. But we should remember alot more young people go to university nowadays compared to 30 years ago. So if education is based on third level education and if more young people vote to remain then more "educated" people will have voted to remain. It's just more university graduates voted to remain and education comes in many forms too. www.theguardian.com/education/2008/oct/23/dumbing-down ahem. Be even worse now with chat gpt and stuff.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 20:30:54 GMT
Partly True but I was being a bit whimsical Farage was not Elected as an MEP in his own right but under the Closed List System which he was top of UKIP List. In EU Elections People Vote for Party's not individuals. Based on the proportion of Votes received by each Party or Independent Candidates MEP seats are apportioned with reference to the order Candidates appear on their Party List. I've never even heard of the bloody closed list system. Blows my mind how well read you are on pretty much everything. You clearly don't watch enough pornography.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 1, 2024 20:37:00 GMT
Be even worse now with chat gpt and stuff. Thick as pig shit.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 1, 2024 20:41:28 GMT
I think the bigger correlation was probably more age than education though mate. Although not denying you're wrong either. But we should remember alot more young people go to university nowadays compared to 30 years ago. So if education is based on third level education and if more young people vote to remain then more "educated" people will have voted to remain. It's just more university graduates voted to remain and education comes in many forms too. www.theguardian.com/education/2008/oct/23/dumbing-down ahem. It’s a real shame to be honest. Tests should be set so that grades display a Gaussian distribution. A first class should mean something and a first class at a better university should mean more because you are pushing kids further who met stricter requirements initially to get in.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 1, 2024 20:51:13 GMT
It’s a real shame to be honest. Tests should be set so that grades display a Gaussian distribution. A first class should mean something and a first class at a better university should mean more because you are pushing kids further who met stricter requirements initially to get in. Or they were born into the right families.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 20:55:03 GMT
BJR do you we have independent source for Tice's claim of 23,000 Postal Votes? I've looked and can't find it. The reason I'm dubious is that there are other claims in Tice's Tweet I know to be false. Assuming his claim to be correct and every single Galloway Vote was Postal it would account for only 55% of all Postal Votes As someone said earlier to register for Postal Voting requires ID and Signature, that Signature is then checked when Postal Vote is returned. Perhaps there may be a simpler answer that people don't want to avoid being intimidated about who they want to Vote for, which in this case was Galloway by a landslide, at Polling Stations as you have said they shouldn't, of course I agree with you. I'm not sure why people are surprised at the result. At the beginning the Labour Candidate was 1/3 and Galloway 3/1 After deselected the Odds reversed At both times Reform Candidate was 50/1. Reform never had a chance of winning this by-election as Tice knows well. According to these sources you don't need Id for postal vote: www.electoral-reform.org.uk/will-i-need-photo-id-to-get-a-postal-vote/www.libdems.org.uk/news/article/4m23pvIt all comes back to the undemocratic Elections Act 2022 pushed through by Boris Johnsons majority government. (Source - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_Act_2022). It makes me uneasy to think people who haven't lived in this country for 15 years can register for Postal votes. And all you need is a national insurance number. And to get on the electoral register for an old address all you need is a document with your name and that address. And If you have none of the documents asked for you can upload any old thing and they still may approve it. The electoral commission is also no longer independant since this act was introduced. I really don't quite understand how someone living in the area and physically attending a polling station needs ID but someone who hasn't lived in the country for 15 years nd not physically showing up doesn't. Problem is this is the sort of stuff people like Boris and Liz Truss pushed through and voted for. And they're the same people who give interviews in America saying the uk is run by a deep state and corrupt. Its like... yous are the ones corrupting the electoral process nobody else. But the media dance to their song. It's concerning the lack of coverage and scrutiny those changes got. It does dim my confidence in the electoral process as, as JRM admitted, these changes were brought in to gerrymander. You need a passport or a biometric residence permit to get an NI Number You need to be on the Electoral Register which checks your details against NI Number to apply for a Postal Vote If you apply for a Postal Vote it is checked against your NI eligibility to Vote in Parliamentary or Local Elections These rules apply in England, Scotland and Wales. The Rules for applying for a Postal Vote in NI the requirements are more stringent because of a history of Voter Fraud
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Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 21:15:23 GMT
Galloway: 12,335 Tully: 6,638 Tories: 3,731 Labour: 2,402 Lib Dems: 2,164 Reform: 1,968 Galloway absolutely tearing into Starmer over Gaza. Whether ultimately he can prove to be a genuine thorn in the side of Labour remains to be seen of course. Any man that had a hard on for Saddam Hussein should really be questioned on why they care about Gaza, because the lives of people in the Middle East doesn’t seem to be something that matters to them. Galloway handed the US Senate its arse on a collective platter when they made those claims in Senate Hearings, particularly its Chairman Senator Norm Coleman Not content on being utterly humiliated Norm foolishly claimed 6 months later he had found a smoking Gun to prove Galloway had lied. Galloway invited him to repeat those allegations outside privalidge of the Senate so that Galloway could sue him for Libel, needless to say Norm declined I don't agree with Galloway on many issues but he was on the right side of History on WMD and Iraq. His performance at the Senate Hearings was one of the finest pieces of Oratory and Put-Downs I have ever witnessed
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 21:40:52 GMT
According to these sources you don't need Id for postal vote: www.electoral-reform.org.uk/will-i-need-photo-id-to-get-a-postal-vote/www.libdems.org.uk/news/article/4m23pvIt all comes back to the undemocratic Elections Act 2022 pushed through by Boris Johnsons majority government. (Source - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_Act_2022). It makes me uneasy to think people who haven't lived in this country for 15 years can register for Postal votes. And all you need is a national insurance number. And to get on the electoral register for an old address all you need is a document with your name and that address. And If you have none of the documents asked for you can upload any old thing and they still may approve it. The electoral commission is also no longer independant since this act was introduced. I really don't quite understand how someone living in the area and physically attending a polling station needs ID but someone who hasn't lived in the country for 15 years nd not physically showing up doesn't. Problem is this is the sort of stuff people like Boris and Liz Truss pushed through and voted for. And they're the same people who give interviews in America saying the uk is run by a deep state and corrupt. Its like... yous are the ones corrupting the electoral process nobody else. But the media dance to their song. It's concerning the lack of coverage and scrutiny those changes got. It does dim my confidence in the electoral process as, as JRM admitted, these changes were brought in to gerrymander. You need a passport or a biometric residence permit to get an NI Number You need to be on the Electoral Register which checks your details against NI Number to apply for a Postal Vote If you apply for a Postal Vote it is checked against your NI eligibility to Vote in Parliamentary or Local Elections These rules apply in England, Scotland and Wales. The Rules for applying for a Postal Vote in NI the requirements are more stringent because of a history of Voter Fraud So if you worked in an HR or payroll department that's all information you'd have access to. And if you knew a former employee who wasn't into politics and emigrated. Could you not hypothetically commit voter fraud? Or a parent who's children have emigrate who may know their national insurance number do the same?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 22:00:14 GMT
You need a passport or a biometric residence permit to get an NI Number You need to be on the Electoral Register which checks your details against NI Number to apply for a Postal Vote If you apply for a Postal Vote it is checked against your NI eligibility to Vote in Parliamentary or Local Elections These rules apply in England, Scotland and Wales. The Rules for applying for a Postal Vote in NI the requirements are more stringent because of a history of Voter Fraud So if you worked in an HR or payroll department that's all information you'd have access to. And if you knew a former employee who wasn't into politics and emigrated. Could you not hypothetically commit voter fraud? Or a parent who's children have emigrate who may know their national insurance number do the same? I'm sure there are ways to cheat any system if one has a mind to. If there are ways to tighten the system I'm all for it, I'm just not sure it's a problem
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Post by gawa on Mar 2, 2024 1:51:28 GMT
This guy 🤣🤣🤣. A wolf amongst sheep and I'm all for it. Strap in fellas, its going to be a turbulent few months. Who needs esstenders.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 2, 2024 2:26:22 GMT
It’s a real shame to be honest. Tests should be set so that grades display a Gaussian distribution. A first class should mean something and a first class at a better university should mean more because you are pushing kids further who met stricter requirements initially to get in. On behalf of all AI Bots I protest that we should not be objectiified under Gaussian Distribution when Stochastic probability can not be determined
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2024 7:32:25 GMT
Be even worse now with chat gpt and stuff. Thick as pig shit. Is that the remain voting graduates Or graduates in common
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Post by figo85 on Mar 2, 2024 7:35:11 GMT
I think the bigger correlation was probably more age than education though mate. Although not denying you're wrong either. But we should remember alot more young people go to university nowadays compared to 30 years ago. So if education is based on third level education and if more young people vote to remain then more "educated" people will have voted to remain. It's just more university graduates voted to remain and education comes in many forms too. www.theguardian.com/education/2008/oct/23/dumbing-down ahem. Unfortunately, general levels across all levels of education are dropping.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2024 7:35:13 GMT
According to these sources you don't need Id for postal vote: www.electoral-reform.org.uk/will-i-need-photo-id-to-get-a-postal-vote/www.libdems.org.uk/news/article/4m23pvIt all comes back to the undemocratic Elections Act 2022 pushed through by Boris Johnsons majority government. (Source - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_Act_2022). It makes me uneasy to think people who haven't lived in this country for 15 years can register for Postal votes. And all you need is a national insurance number. And to get on the electoral register for an old address all you need is a document with your name and that address. And If you have none of the documents asked for you can upload any old thing and they still may approve it. The electoral commission is also no longer independant since this act was introduced. I really don't quite understand how someone living in the area and physically attending a polling station needs ID but someone who hasn't lived in the country for 15 years nd not physically showing up doesn't. Problem is this is the sort of stuff people like Boris and Liz Truss pushed through and voted for. And they're the same people who give interviews in America saying the uk is run by a deep state and corrupt. Its like... yous are the ones corrupting the electoral process nobody else. But the media dance to their song. It's concerning the lack of coverage and scrutiny those changes got. It does dim my confidence in the electoral process as, as JRM admitted, these changes were brought in to gerrymander. You need a passport or a biometric residence permit to get an NI Number You need to be on the Electoral Register which checks your details against NI Number to apply for a Postal Vote If you apply for a Postal Vote it is checked against your NI eligibility to Vote in Parliamentary or Local Elections These rules apply in England, Scotland and Wales. The Rules for applying for a Postal Vote in NI the requirements are more stringent because of a history of Voter Fraud Are there not thousands of fake ni numbers floating around
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 2, 2024 7:55:35 GMT
Is that the remain voting graduates Or graduates in common In common.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 2, 2024 9:03:40 GMT
You need a passport or a biometric residence permit to get an NI Number You need to be on the Electoral Register which checks your details against NI Number to apply for a Postal Vote If you apply for a Postal Vote it is checked against your NI eligibility to Vote in Parliamentary or Local Elections These rules apply in England, Scotland and Wales. The Rules for applying for a Postal Vote in NI the requirements are more stringent because of a history of Voter Fraud Are there not thousands of fake ni numbers floating around No idea, and they would get you on the Electoral Register how?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 2, 2024 9:15:43 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 2, 2024 9:28:55 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 2, 2024 10:04:40 GMT
Why shouldn't people need ID ? To vote.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 2, 2024 10:13:05 GMT
Of the 1,386 cases of alleged electoral fraud reported to police between 2018 and 2022, 9 led to convictions and the police issued 6 cautions. So everyone needs ID because of 15 people! Correct So in your opinion it is right that 14,000 people were turned away from the ballot box for the local elections (and many others before they got there by people telling them about ID outside of the polling stations) and stopped from voting because 15 people over a 5 year period were convicted of voter fraud? Please explain why you hold that opinion? It seems absolutely insane to me.
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Post by noustie on Mar 2, 2024 10:17:29 GMT
Christ the establishment are absolutely shitting bricks at this.
Imagine if a few independents who weren’t absolute bellends won seats - the apoplectic rage would be golden!
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 2, 2024 10:22:22 GMT
But he was a very successful MEP. Partly True but I was being a bit whimsical Farage was not Elected as an MEP in his own right but under the Closed List System which he was top of UKIP List. In EU Elections People Vote for Party's not individuals. Based on the proportion of Votes received by each Party or Independent Candidates MEP seats are apportioned with reference to the order Candidates appear on their Party List. You are correct. The Closed List System is another way of politicians manipulating democracy by them deciding who wins and gets a seat. That system coupled with PR means that effectively the same political leaders retain power as the public have no means of removing them. I was discussing the Closed List System with a retired anaesthetist consultant I was with at a prayer meeting last Thursday. He is a strong supporter of Israel and is visiting next week. He despairs at the Israel electoral system which effectively means small groups of parties get into power with the same leaders returned and then they carve up who actually takes power and gets the top jobs. The coalition government then persecutes minorities like Christians. As we saw with Nick Clegg politicians are prepared to dump their manifesto policies they were elected on, to get a share of power (and a bigger life long pension). We have a very flawed electoral system in this country but we need to be very careful how we change it. We need to retain one member per constituency so politicians can be removed. Byelections show how fickle the public can be and make protest votes. This would be extended to GEs if PR were adopted. Closed List is a system to ensure the party leaders get a seat. PR is similar and as in Germany you get a whole range of parties elected and then the main ones go behind closed doors to decide what the coalition government policies will be and who gets what job. Germany could have had three or four different coalition governments after the last election - the government Germany got was decided by secret haggling, not the public's choice. As I've already said, our system is flawed and needs improving but it is vital that the public can vote a politician out of power. If the public vote someone into power like Rochdale have done, that is their democratic decision and they have to live with the MP they have chosen to represent them.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 2, 2024 10:25:35 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 2, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
Of the 1,386 cases of alleged electoral fraud reported to police between 2018 and 2022, 9 led to convictions and the police issued 6 cautions. So everyone needs ID because of 15 people! Correct So in your opinion it is right that 14,000 people were turned away from the ballot box for the local elections (and many others before they got there by people telling them about ID outside of the polling stations) and stopped from voting because 15 people over a 5 year period were convicted or cautioned due to voter fraud? Please explain why you hold that opinion? It seems absolutely insane to me.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 2, 2024 10:51:03 GMT
Partly True but I was being a bit whimsical Farage was not Elected as an MEP in his own right but under the Closed List System which he was top of UKIP List. In EU Elections People Vote for Party's not individuals. Based on the proportion of Votes received by each Party or Independent Candidates MEP seats are apportioned with reference to the order Candidates appear on their Party List. You are correct. The Closed List System is another way of politicians manipulating democracy by them deciding who wins and gets a seat. That system coupled with PR means that effectively the same political leaders retain power as the public have no means of removing them. I was discussing the Closed List System with a retired anaesthetist consultant I was with at a prayer meeting last Thursday. He is a strong supporter of Israel and is visiting next week. He despairs at the Israel electoral system which effectively means small groups of parties get into power with the same leaders returned and then they carve up who actually takes power and gets the top jobs. The coalition government then persecutes minorities like Christians. As we saw with Nick Clegg politicians are prepared to dump their manifesto policies they were elected on, to get a share of power (and a bigger life long pension). We have a very flawed electoral system in this country but we need to be very careful how we change it. We need to retain one member per constituency so politicians can be removed. Byelections show how fickle the public can be and make protest votes. This would be extended to GEs if PR were adopted. Closed List is a system to ensure the party leaders get a seat. PR is similar and as in Germany you get a whole range of parties elected and then the main ones go behind closed doors to decide what the coalition government policies will be and who gets what job. Germany could have had three or four different coalition governments after the last election - the government Germany got was decided by secret haggling, not the public's choice. As I've already said, our system is flawed and needs improving but it is vital that the public can vote a politician out of power. If the public vote someone into power like Rochdale have done, that is their democratic decision and they have to live with the MP they have chosen to represent them. Mr Coke we don't always agree but in this case we do 100% in everything you've said
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 2, 2024 11:33:02 GMT
Woe betide the day any politician has a " grip of the country".
"Take a grip" means to me a Putin, Hitler, Mussolini, Tito, Franco, or even a French President who can overrule the National Assembly. Politicians are there to serve and not control. Sunak will soon be gone like all his predecessors. I thought what he was saying, in a veiled way, was he had told the police to "take a grip". Maybe I'm wrong. Alluding to my last post above, we don't want politicians who "take a grip" like Thatcher, neither do we want the instability that coalition government can lead to, such as in Italy. It is important that a party has a sufficient majority to make law, otherwise there is lack of government as with May. But equally it is important that the weight of public opinion can cause a political party to remove an unsatisfactory leader such as Johnson, even between elections. It's all a question of balance. While I'm on my soapbox- it is also important to prevent a politician being a head of state. I would detest any politician of any party claiming to represent the people and its institutions. The country's political leader should be just that, representing the government, and nothing more. Just look at the hatred being expressed against Jews because of their government. We should keep separate government from nation/people and not confuse them.
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Post by knype on Mar 2, 2024 12:52:34 GMT
Why shouldn't people need ID ? To vote. Yes
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2024 13:01:18 GMT
So in your opinion it is right that 14,000 people were turned away from the ballot box for the local elections (and many others before they got there by people telling them about ID outside of the polling stations) and stopped from voting because 15 people over a 5 year period were convicted of voter fraud? Please explain why you hold that opinion? It seems absolutely insane to me. I'm insane
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