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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 14:55:25 GMT
For the last couple of seasons, Stoke have just been a depressing thing I did on a Saturday afternoon. I've not given them much thought at all throughout the week as they bumbled along in a state of 'always wank, but never wank enough to get relegated.' Now though, I'm worried. I'm logging on to here a lot more and scrolling Twitter for some sort of reassurance and comfort that someone knows something that will make this turn out OK. However, the more I read, the worse I feel, and the more worried I get.
We've now reached the point where the umpteenth transfer window and managerial appointment 'we have to get right' has seemingly gone wrong to the point we're staring League One in the face. When I look at the squad that we've built/thrown together though, I don't see relegation as the end point. I can honestly see us sinking further- perhaps to the murky depths that Alan Ball managed to reach, but possibly even further down than that.
The squad isn't fit for purpose. Nobody could realistically do a thing with them. They're certainly not up to having inverted wing backs thrust upon them as most of the useless twats can't even do the basics, which is a problem/crisis more immediate than the wider horizons of doom I'm thinking about.
Coates has to act now.
1) Martin and Dublin have to be removed from their jobs immediately. We need people in these roles who know the EFL inside out. The risky punts and foreign signings can come later. We need to have a solid base to build from first. Head hunt the absolute best people for the task and get them in ASAP.
2) The managerial situation is now either a case of sticking with Schumacher come hell or high water, or bringing in an experienced firefighter on an 18-month deal like TP (he'll unretire for the right money) or Allardyce to keep us up this season and next through sheer organisation while we re-build the squad.
Make no mistake, going down will be a disaster. We have to avoid it or we could end up in the sort of state that'll make this season seem like a 9-month-long party.
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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 11, 2024 15:00:47 GMT
Completely agree with all of this.
I’m afraid the current manager does have to go. I like him, but he’s a manager for the good times, which these are not. He lacks experience dealing with the current situation and the current players, and it’s going to relegate us in very short order.
We must act NOW, on both manager and recruitment team, while there’s still a chance.
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Post by thepottypotter on Feb 11, 2024 15:01:50 GMT
Excellent well thought out post.
Going down will be a disaster. This squad won't be in the top half of L1. Other than burger, who will rightfully be off if we are relegated, there isn’t a fighter or leader in them. They are all spoilt kids only looking after themselves. There isn’t a team here, just a collection of misfits.
If Martin and Jared stay in post - we will be in the bottom half, staring at the realistic prospect of L2 next year.
I feel for Schumacher as very little of this is his fault, but he was the wrong appointment at the wrong time. He is a manager for the good times, not for this shit show.
Another massive mistake by Martin and JC buying his snake oil. We have to do everything we can to stop relegation and when we lose at QPR, I think we need to throw an experienced manager at it. Or we can look at many years before we are back to where we are now.
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Post by stokiejon03 on Feb 11, 2024 15:14:12 GMT
Can't argue with any of the original post. Act now while we still have a chance. It will get a lot worse in league one. Anything other than being in the automatic promotion places will be a failure. Every defeat to a Stevenage, burton etc will be a crisis. League one will be tough. Martin and Dublin need to go straight away. If we could get someone like allardyce until the summer then re asses where we are.
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Post by Fred Merger on Feb 11, 2024 15:14:17 GMT
I agree that Tricky and Dublin should be shown the door. But not necessarily Schumacher. We need to show some sort of stability with managers and get in more of his players than these other so called suits who know very little about what is needed in this division. We have allowed ourselves to become far too soft and so easy to roll over that it's become embarrassing.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 11, 2024 15:19:21 GMT
The contract situation is some solace, if we can stay up and overhaul the layer between the manager and the board.
Iversen, Hoever, Stevens, McNally, Clark, Cundle, Thompson, Campbell, Wes and Haksabanovic will be out.
And Bonham, Gooch, Rose, Laurent, Baker, Johnson will be in their final year.
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 11, 2024 15:21:45 GMT
For the last couple of seasons, Stoke have just been a depressing thing I did on a Saturday afternoon. I've not given them much thought at all throughout the week as they bumbled along in a state of 'always wank, but never wank enough to get relegated.' Now though, I'm worried. I'm logging on to here a lot more and scrolling Twitter for some sort of reassurance and comfort that someone knows something that will make this turn out OK. However, the more I read, the worse I feel, and the more worried I get. We've now reached the point where the umpteenth transfer window and managerial appointment 'we have to get right' has seemingly gone wrong to the point we're staring League One in the face. When I look at the squad that we've built/thrown together though, I don't see relegation as the end point. I can honestly see us sinking further- perhaps to the murky depths that Alan Ball managed to reach, but possibly even further down than that. The squad isn't fit for purpose. Nobody could realistically do a thing with them. They're certainly not up to having inverted wing backs thrust upon them as most of the useless twats can't even do the basics, which is a problem/crisis more immediate than the wider horizons of doom I'm thinking about. Coates has to act now. 1) Martin and Dublin have to be removed from their jobs immediately. We need people in these roles who know the EFL inside out. The risky punts and foreign signings can come later. We need to have a solid base to build from first. Head hunt the absolute best people for the task and get them in ASAP. 2) The managerial situation is now either a case of sticking with Schumacher come hell or high water, or bringing in an experienced firefighter on an 18-month deal like TP (he'll unretire for the right money) or Allardyce to keep us up this season and next through sheer organisation while we re-build the squad. Make no mistake, going down will be a disaster. We have to avoid it or we could end up in the sort of state that'll make this season seem like a 9-month-long party. You look on Twitter for reassurance? That's like asking Harold Shipman for advice on palliative care.
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Post by theglove on Feb 11, 2024 15:22:02 GMT
For the last couple of seasons, Stoke have just been a depressing thing I did on a Saturday afternoon. I've not given them much thought at all throughout the week as they bumbled along in a state of 'always wank, but never wank enough to get relegated.' Now though, I'm worried. I'm logging on to here a lot more and scrolling Twitter for some sort of reassurance and comfort that someone knows something that will make this turn out OK. However, the more I read, the worse I feel, and the more worried I get. We've now reached the point where the umpteenth transfer window and managerial appointment 'we have to get right' has seemingly gone wrong to the point we're staring League One in the face. When I look at the squad that we've built/thrown together though, I don't see relegation as the end point. I can honestly see us sinking further- perhaps to the murky depths that Alan Ball managed to reach, but possibly even further down than that. The squad isn't fit for purpose. Nobody could realistically do a thing with them. They're certainly not up to having inverted wing backs thrust upon them as most of the useless twats can't even do the basics, which is a problem/crisis more immediate than the wider horizons of doom I'm thinking about. Coates has to act now. 1) Martin and Dublin have to be removed from their jobs immediately. We need people in these roles who know the EFL inside out. The risky punts and foreign signings can come later. We need to have a solid base to build from first. Head hunt the absolute best people for the task and get them in ASAP. 2) The managerial situation is now either a case of sticking with Schumacher come hell or high water, or bringing in an experienced firefighter on an 18-month deal like TP (he'll unretire for the right money) or Allardyce to keep us up this season and next through sheer organisation while we re-build the squad. Make no mistake, going down will be a disaster. We have to avoid it or we could end up in the sort of state that'll make this season seem like a 9-month-long party. Please explain how bringing in an experienced firefighter will keep us up with a squad that isn't fit for purpose.
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Post by theglove on Feb 11, 2024 15:23:05 GMT
For the last couple of seasons, Stoke have just been a depressing thing I did on a Saturday afternoon. I've not given them much thought at all throughout the week as they bumbled along in a state of 'always wank, but never wank enough to get relegated.' Now though, I'm worried. I'm logging on to here a lot more and scrolling Twitter for some sort of reassurance and comfort that someone knows something that will make this turn out OK. However, the more I read, the worse I feel, and the more worried I get. We've now reached the point where the umpteenth transfer window and managerial appointment 'we have to get right' has seemingly gone wrong to the point we're staring League One in the face. When I look at the squad that we've built/thrown together though, I don't see relegation as the end point. I can honestly see us sinking further- perhaps to the murky depths that Alan Ball managed to reach, but possibly even further down than that. The squad isn't fit for purpose. Nobody could realistically do a thing with them. They're certainly not up to having inverted wing backs thrust upon them as most of the useless twats can't even do the basics, which is a problem/crisis more immediate than the wider horizons of doom I'm thinking about. Coates has to act now. 1) Martin and Dublin have to be removed from their jobs immediately. We need people in these roles who know the EFL inside out. The risky punts and foreign signings can come later. We need to have a solid base to build from first. Head hunt the absolute best people for the task and get them in ASAP. 2) The managerial situation is now either a case of sticking with Schumacher come hell or high water, or bringing in an experienced firefighter on an 18-month deal like TP (he'll unretire for the right money) or Allardyce to keep us up this season and next through sheer organisation while we re-build the squad. Make no mistake, going down will be a disaster. We have to avoid it or we could end up in the sort of state that'll make this season seem like a 9-month-long party. You look on Twitter for reassurance? That's like asking Harold Shipman for advice on palliative care. Or worse, Matt Hancock
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Post by thornestein on Feb 11, 2024 15:25:52 GMT
can we afford sack SS , Tricky or the Yank , how would it impact ffp ?
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 15:25:59 GMT
For the last couple of seasons, Stoke have just been a depressing thing I did on a Saturday afternoon. I've not given them much thought at all throughout the week as they bumbled along in a state of 'always wank, but never wank enough to get relegated.' Now though, I'm worried. I'm logging on to here a lot more and scrolling Twitter for some sort of reassurance and comfort that someone knows something that will make this turn out OK. However, the more I read, the worse I feel, and the more worried I get. We've now reached the point where the umpteenth transfer window and managerial appointment 'we have to get right' has seemingly gone wrong to the point we're staring League One in the face. When I look at the squad that we've built/thrown together though, I don't see relegation as the end point. I can honestly see us sinking further- perhaps to the murky depths that Alan Ball managed to reach, but possibly even further down than that. The squad isn't fit for purpose. Nobody could realistically do a thing with them. They're certainly not up to having inverted wing backs thrust upon them as most of the useless twats can't even do the basics, which is a problem/crisis more immediate than the wider horizons of doom I'm thinking about. Coates has to act now. 1) Martin and Dublin have to be removed from their jobs immediately. We need people in these roles who know the EFL inside out. The risky punts and foreign signings can come later. We need to have a solid base to build from first. Head hunt the absolute best people for the task and get them in ASAP. 2) The managerial situation is now either a case of sticking with Schumacher come hell or high water, or bringing in an experienced firefighter on an 18-month deal like TP (he'll unretire for the right money) or Allardyce to keep us up this season and next through sheer organisation while we re-build the squad. Make no mistake, going down will be a disaster. We have to avoid it or we could end up in the sort of state that'll make this season seem like a 9-month-long party. Please explain how bringing in an experienced firefighter will keep us up with a squad that isn't fit for purpose. Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 15:30:58 GMT
can we afford sack SS , Tricky or the Yank , how would it impact ffp ? Not as much as going down would.
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Post by pearo on Feb 11, 2024 15:37:20 GMT
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on things since Hughes left. I find it difficult to believe that the managers that we’ve hired and fired since that that time are all bad. Yes some may have tried tactics that weren’t suitable to or were even beyond the comprehension of the players at their disposal, but for them all to have “ failed “ in the eyes of the fans and the board astounds me. Given that we are where we are now, it would be a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to keep us up.
There must be a deeper problem here than continual managerial failure, surely all of them can’t have “lost “ the dressing room. Therefore the issue has to lie with the recruitment policy and it’s these people who must be removed from our club as soon as possible.
Sadly I think we will be relegated this season, I hope that I’m wrong, as too many of the teams around us are picking up points on a far more regular basis than we are. Either way if we stay up or go down if the board don’t act to remove those in charge of recruitment even staying in League One will be a challenge.
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skidog
Academy Starlet
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Posts: 171
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Post by skidog on Feb 11, 2024 15:42:29 GMT
Please explain how bringing in an experienced firefighter will keep us up with a squad that isn't fit for purpose. Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. Not even sure that no matter how experienced someone may be that it would make any difference. You can have THE most experienced person but if his tools are utter shit (which ours are) then experience counts for nothing. People keep saying we need to go back to doing the basics, all well and good but when the majority of the team are so incapable of even doing that. I have never seen a team with so many players that cannot pass to a team mate, tackle, take up glaringly obvious positions in defence, move in to space and just have a modicum of basic footballing ability and then last but not least, if not the worlds best footballer, then at least put in some effort and fight for the team. We have 2-3 players who we can all name that would not fall in to the above category, the rest are just absolute dog shit.
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Post by greyface on Feb 11, 2024 15:44:13 GMT
Barrow, away.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 15:46:06 GMT
Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. Not even sure that no matter how experienced someone may be that it would make any difference. You can have THE most experienced person but if his tools are utter shit (which ours are) then experience counts for nothing. People keep saying we need to go back to doing the basics, all well and good but when the majority of the team are so incapable of even doing that. I have never seen a team with so many players that cannot pass to a team mate, tackle, take up glaringly obvious positions in defence, move in to space and just have a modicum of basic footballing ability and then last but not least, if not the worlds best footballer, then at least put in some effort and fight for the team. We have 2-3 players who we can all name that would not fall in to the above category, the rest are just absolute dog shit. There's never a guarantee with football, but I'd feel far more confident of staying up with TP in charge than anyone else. That's why I wouldn't sack Schumacher and replace him with just another manager- it needs to be a relegation survival specialist with a track record of turning shit teams around.
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 11, 2024 15:49:09 GMT
I wouldn't rule out doing a Bradford.
If we got relegated we'd end up spending a shed load of money on some dickhead like Lee Johnson and end up in midtable, before we went and raided Halifax for their young, up and coming manager to sort the mess out - because John's mate had seen them playing against Barnet and thought their football was good 'on a shoestring', before chatting away over a couple of pints of Thwaites in the local, just down the road from The Shay.
Just accept it, it's happening.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 11, 2024 15:50:17 GMT
can we afford sack SS , Tricky or the Yank , how would it impact ffp ? Not as much as going down would. Unless we bust ffp, stay up but then get a points deduction that relegates us?
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 11, 2024 15:50:36 GMT
If we sack SS for coming in and playing the gung-ho approach that he was brought in for, we deserve relegation.
Has Allardyce managed outside of the PL since taking Bolton there over 20 years ago? He’s a PL manager, why would he come to Stoke? If he fails here, he’s then a Championship manager.
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Post by onionman on Feb 11, 2024 15:50:53 GMT
The answer to the question is that we will keep sinking until we appoint a manager who is capable of working with whichever players are at the club when he arrives, figures out a simple way of playing for them in the short term, then assesses the strengths and weaknesses over a period of time and purposefully goes about addressing them.
That’s how Macari turned it around in 92, Pulis in 2003 and O’Neill to an extent after he replaced Jones. It should be obvious but we’ve not told any of our recent managers to take that pragmatic approach. It’s led to chaos on the pitch and the stockpiling of expensive players in the stands, which makes it impossible to build any kind of team spirit.
If we repeat that in the summer with whichever “League One expert” we appoint after relegation, we will have the same bloated squad and sense of short-termism and chaos and we’ll get picked off by any team with a semblance of organsation and team spirit. We’ll go down again, regardless of how much more expensive our team is than Harrogate or Northampton.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 11, 2024 15:51:25 GMT
I wouldn't rule out doing a Bradford. If we got relegated we'd end up spending a shed load of money on some dickhead like Lee Johnson and end up in midtable, before we went and raided Halifax for their young, up and coming manager to sort the mess out - because John's mate had seen them playing against Barnet and thought their football was good 'on a shoestring', before chatting away over a couple of pints of Thwaites in the local, just down the road from The Shay. Just accept it, it's happening. You don’t think Schumacher would stay then if relegated then?
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 11, 2024 15:52:34 GMT
I wouldn't rule out doing a Bradford. If we got relegated we'd end up spending a shed load of money on some dickhead like Lee Johnson and end up in midtable, before we went and raided Halifax for their young, up and coming manager to sort the mess out - because John's mate had seen them playing against Barnet and thought their football was good 'on a shoestring', before chatting away over a couple of pints of Thwaites in the local, just down the road from The Shay. Just accept it, it's happening. You don’t think Schumacher would stay then if relegated then? I think it would turn that toxic that John would sack him. It's not far off that now (toxic).
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Post by thornestein on Feb 11, 2024 15:53:25 GMT
I wouldn't rule out doing a Bradford. If we got relegated we'd end up spending a shed load of money on some dickhead like Lee Johnson and end up in midtable, before we went and raided Halifax for their young, up and coming manager to sort the mess out - because John's mate had seen them playing against Barnet and thought their football was good 'on a shoestring', before chatting away over a couple of pints of Thwaites in the local, just down the road from The Shay. Just accept it, it's happening. You don’t think Schumacher would stay then if relegated then? would he deserve to stay if we’re relegated ?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 11, 2024 15:53:47 GMT
If we did go down you can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 11, 2024 15:54:08 GMT
You don’t think Schumacher would stay then if relegated then? I think it would turn that toxic that John would sack him. It's not far off that now (toxic). Perversely John might see him as his no 1 choice to get us out of L1 ala Plymouth.
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Post by thornestein on Feb 11, 2024 15:55:02 GMT
If we did go down you can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages how’s that effect transfer fees ?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 11, 2024 15:55:43 GMT
If we did go down you can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages how’s that effect transfer fees ? I honestly don’t know mate
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 11, 2024 15:59:41 GMT
If we did go down you can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages I've been reading up on this. Owners donations count towards turnover, so that would explain Ipswich's massive wage bill. I'm not sure if there is an upper limit on how much owners can invest and donate though.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 11, 2024 16:06:56 GMT
How low can we sink
A slow worms belly button springs to mind
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Post by Roland the Thompson Gunner on Feb 11, 2024 16:09:05 GMT
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on things since Hughes left. I find it difficult to believe that the managers that we’ve hired and fired since that that time are all bad. Yes some may have tried tactics that weren’t suitable to or were even beyond the comprehension of the players at their disposal, but for them all to have “ failed “ in the eyes of the fans and the board astounds me. Given that we are where we are now, it would be a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to keep us up. There must be a deeper problem here than continual managerial failure, surely all of them can’t have “lost “ the dressing room. Therefore the issue has to lie with the recruitment policy and it’s these people who must be removed from our club as soon as possible. Sadly I think we will be relegated this season, I hope that I’m wrong, as too many of the teams around us are picking up points on a far more regular basis than we are. Either way if we stay up or go down if the board don’t act to remove those in charge of recruitment even staying in League One will be a challenge. I'm in a fair amount of agreement with this. TP signed mostly misfits, semi-cripples and players who'd failed elsewhere and turned them into a team nobody wanted to play against. For some reason, and I've no idea what that is, since those times we've signed experienced Championship players and other promising players who have mostly been turned into a pile of shit! There's something going on at Stoke that has done this for a few years now; every time we feel optimistic about a player, he turns into an incompetent, useless passenger. There have been examples even earlier. Look at Carl Asaba; he habitually ripped Stoke's defence a new arsehole playing against us; when he came here, he WAS the arsehole. It has to be more fundamental than the manager and coaching staff. They change regularly, but the problem remains. Maybe a change of ownership would help, but something about the culture smells and I don't know hw we change it.
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