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Post by Marc01 on Feb 11, 2024 16:12:20 GMT
Please explain how bringing in an experienced firefighter will keep us up with a squad that isn't fit for purpose. Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. His organisation was clearly “worth a hell of a lot” at S.Weds in his last appointment, which ended over 3 years ago. What is to be done if TP comes in and gets 3 points out of the next 8 games (or even a point a game like the current boss has)? What’s the next level of panic stations to be if something like that transpires? TP gained 11 points out of the first 48 available at Stoke in 2002. There’s zero guarantee. “After the 2–0 defeat to Nottingham Forest, he broke the record for worst start for any manager at Sheffield Wednesday, getting 3 points from a possible 24. He won his first game as manager at the ninth time of asking against Coventry City in a 1–0 win, with Tom Lees getting the winning goal. On 28 December 2020, Pulis was sacked as Wednesday manager after having secured just one victory from ten league games.” As for good old “Big Sam”… He couldn’t get a win with better players at Leeds. Wouldn’t want that wazzock anywhere near Stoke City. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3813287/amp/Single-mother-brands-multi-millionaire-Sam-Allardyce-greedy-penny-pincher-forcing-home-rented-demanding-extra-50-second-hand-washing-machine.html
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Post by bingbang on Feb 11, 2024 16:22:25 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see him walk away, stating that we were a shit show of a club. He keeps his reputation fairly high by doing that.
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Post by telfordstokie on Feb 11, 2024 16:26:06 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see him walk away, stating that we were a shit show of a club. He keeps his reputation fairly high by doing that. He’s signed a three and half year deal on £1m a year after spending his playing and coaching career in the lower leagues - no one in their right mind walks away from life changing money like that.
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Post by theglove on Feb 11, 2024 16:52:02 GMT
Please explain how bringing in an experienced firefighter will keep us up with a squad that isn't fit for purpose. Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. So you didn't mean "nobody could realistically do a thing with them"
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 11, 2024 17:03:41 GMT
I think it would turn that toxic that John would sack him. It's not far off that now (toxic). Perversely John might see him as his no 1 choice to get us out of L1 ala Plymouth. I think that would be quite likely.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 11, 2024 17:06:07 GMT
Not even sure that no matter how experienced someone may be that it would make any difference. You can have THE most experienced person but if his tools are utter shit (which ours are) then experience counts for nothing. People keep saying we need to go back to doing the basics, all well and good but when the majority of the team are so incapable of even doing that. I have never seen a team with so many players that cannot pass to a team mate, tackle, take up glaringly obvious positions in defence, move in to space and just have a modicum of basic footballing ability and then last but not least, if not the worlds best footballer, then at least put in some effort and fight for the team. We have 2-3 players who we can all name that would not fall in to the above category, the rest are just absolute dog shit. There's never a guarantee with football, but I'd feel far more confident of staying up with TP in charge than anyone else. That's why I wouldn't sack Schumacher and replace him with just another manager- it needs to be a relegation survival specialist with a track record of turning shit teams around. TP would also be quite handy in the "cultural architect" role of course. Like a duck to water.😄
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 11, 2024 17:17:31 GMT
good points but problem is we've signed 'EFL players' before and it hasn't worked. There's seemingly no manager, recruitment targets, etc that is working. We've signed £18m flops, loanees who do fuck all, freebies who are rubbish, £3m players who aren't good enough.
We're just broken as a club.
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Post by skip on Feb 11, 2024 17:20:08 GMT
Another massive mistake by Martin and JC buying his snake oil. If I've read your comment above correctly, I don't see the problem as being Martin and Coates buying Shumacher's snake oil. Quite the opposite. They sold him a project and he took it on. All of this mess lies squarely at the feet of Coates, Martin and Dublin. They're an unmitigated disaster.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 17:31:13 GMT
Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. So you didn't mean "nobody could realistically do a thing with them" Other than organise them to just about grind out enough points in a short-term firefight, no- there's not a thing you can do with that squad. They're fucking shit. I wouldn't expect any manager, apart from TP or possibly Big Sam, to be able to get enough of a tune out of them to do that either.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 17:35:44 GMT
Because organisation is worth a hell of a lot. Someone like TP or Big Sam know how to get the absolute most out of limited players. Everything would be back to basics- so simple that even our shit players would be able to manage it. His organisation was clearly “worth a hell of a lot” at S.Weds in his last appointment, which ended over 3 years ago. What is to be done if TP comes in and gets 3 points out of the next 8 games (or even a point a game like the current boss has)? What’s the next level of panic stations to be if something like that transpires? TP gained 11 points out of the first 48 available at Stoke in 2002. There’s zero guarantee. “After the 2–0 defeat to Nottingham Forest, he broke the record for worst start for any manager at Sheffield Wednesday, getting 3 points from a possible 24. He won his first game as manager at the ninth time of asking against Coventry City in a 1–0 win, with Tom Lees getting the winning goal. On 28 December 2020, Pulis was sacked as Wednesday manager after having secured just one victory from ten league games.” As for good old “Big Sam”… He couldn’t get a win with better players at Leeds. Wouldn’t want that wazzock anywhere near Stoke City. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3813287/amp/Single-mother-brands-multi-millionaire-Sam-Allardyce-greedy-penny-pincher-forcing-home-rented-demanding-extra-50-second-hand-washing-machine.htmlAllardyce only had about 4 games at Leeds didn't he? TP's Sheff Wed stint didn't go well, but some people belong at certain clubs. Like how Nathan Jones turns into an EFL Pep at Luton, but is an absolute tool everywhere else. There's no guarantee with anything. It's all playing the percentages. At present I just see the TP option as our best chance of surviving.
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Post by stoke1989 on Feb 11, 2024 17:37:18 GMT
Just for reference;
We've spent 62 seasons in the top tier of the English football league system, 46 in the second and 8 in the third.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 11, 2024 17:37:44 GMT
Completely agree with all of this. I’m afraid the current manager does have to go. I like him, but he’s a manager for the good times, which these are not. He lacks experience dealing with the current situation and the current players, and it’s going to relegate us in very short order. We must act NOW, on both manager and recruitment team, while there’s still a chance. If Schumacher can get us through this it could be the making of him. Stick with him.
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Post by stokiejon03 on Feb 11, 2024 17:50:06 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see him walk away, stating that we were a shit show of a club. He keeps his reputation fairly high by doing that. Lose the next two or three and surely no manage can survive losing 6 or 7 games in a row in our situation. He could be a couple of weeks away from a huge payout. I’d stick around. I don’t think his reputation will be too damaged also. He’s at a mess of a club.
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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 11, 2024 17:56:47 GMT
Completely agree with all of this. I’m afraid the current manager does have to go. I like him, but he’s a manager for the good times, which these are not. He lacks experience dealing with the current situation and the current players, and it’s going to relegate us in very short order. We must act NOW, on both manager and recruitment team, while there’s still a chance. If Schumacher can get us through this it could be the making of him. Stick with him. That’s a giant supersized “if”. He’s shown no sign of being able to turn it round. Indeed, it gets worse by the week. We are running out of games.
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Post by Marc01 on Feb 11, 2024 17:58:24 GMT
His organisation was clearly “worth a hell of a lot” at S.Weds in his last appointment, which ended over 3 years ago. What is to be done if TP comes in and gets 3 points out of the next 8 games (or even a point a game like the current boss has)? What’s the next level of panic stations to be if something like that transpires? TP gained 11 points out of the first 48 available at Stoke in 2002. There’s zero guarantee. “After the 2–0 defeat to Nottingham Forest, he broke the record for worst start for any manager at Sheffield Wednesday, getting 3 points from a possible 24. He won his first game as manager at the ninth time of asking against Coventry City in a 1–0 win, with Tom Lees getting the winning goal. On 28 December 2020, Pulis was sacked as Wednesday manager after having secured just one victory from ten league games.” As for good old “Big Sam”… He couldn’t get a win with better players at Leeds. Wouldn’t want that wazzock anywhere near Stoke City. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3813287/amp/Single-mother-brands-multi-millionaire-Sam-Allardyce-greedy-penny-pincher-forcing-home-rented-demanding-extra-50-second-hand-washing-machine.htmlAllardyce only had about 4 games at Leeds didn't he? TP's Sheff Wed stint didn't go well, but some people belong at certain clubs. Like how Nathan Jones turns into an EFL Pep at Luton, but is an absolute tool everywhere else. There's no guarantee with anything. It's all playing the percentages. At present I just see the TP option as our best chance of surviving. TP might belong here but these were the starts to his two stints as Stoke boss: 2002: 9 games 3 points 2006: 10 games 9 points (9 games 8 points) The latter season being after a full preseason preparation. Nothing to suggest an immediate impact and on both occasions he needed to bring in players to address the situation… Ricardo Fuller scored in that 10th game. If he returned and failed to better those two starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Wouldn’t touch SA with a barge pole.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 11, 2024 17:58:52 GMT
Just for reference; We've spent 62 seasons in the top tier of the English football league system, 46 in the second and 8 in the third. Just 8 in 116 years. Twice under the stewardship of the Coates family. And it could imminently be a third. Scandalous.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 11, 2024 18:02:33 GMT
If Schumacher can get us through this it could be the making of him. Stick with him. That’s a giant supersized “if”. He’s shown no sign of being able to turn it round. Indeed, it gets worse by the week. We are running out of games. I know mate but I can't stomach the thought of John Coates appointing another manager.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 11, 2024 18:50:06 GMT
Another massive mistake by Martin and JC buying his snake oil. If I've read your comment above correctly, I don't see the problem as being Martin and Coates buying Shumacher's snake oil. Quite the opposite. They sold him a project and he took it on. All of this mess lies squarely at the feet of Coates, Martin and Dublin. They're an unmitigated disaster. I don’t disagree but one put £330m in and the others are taking money out as well as destroying the club
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 11, 2024 19:19:54 GMT
Allardyce only had about 4 games at Leeds didn't he? TP's Sheff Wed stint didn't go well, but some people belong at certain clubs. Like how Nathan Jones turns into an EFL Pep at Luton, but is an absolute tool everywhere else. There's no guarantee with anything. It's all playing the percentages. At present I just see the TP option as our best chance of surviving. TP might belong here but these were the starts to his two stints as Stoke boss: 2002: 9 games 3 points 2006: 10 games 9 points (9 games 8 points) The latter season being after a full preseason preparation. Nothing to suggest an immediate impact and on both occasions he needed to bring in players to address the situation… Ricardo Fuller scored in that 10th game. If he returned and failed to better those two starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Wouldn’t touch SA with a barge pole. If I could be arsed, I'd look up the impact he had at other clubs in the first 10 games to counter that (Palace, West Brom etc) but safe to say, I really can't be arsed. 😂 The impact he would have on the crowd would be worth a few points at home anyway. Even those who weren't big fans the first time around (I was very anti-Pulis for a long time) would surely see the romance of it and get behind him and the team. Alan Durban had a similar effect at the tail end of the 97/98 season when we managed a couple of heroic wins despite being shit for months. However, it was too late by then.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 11, 2024 19:30:12 GMT
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on things since Hughes left. I find it difficult to believe that the managers that we’ve hired and fired since that that time are all bad. Yes some may have tried tactics that weren’t suitable to or were even beyond the comprehension of the players at their disposal, but for them all to have “ failed “ in the eyes of the fans and the board astounds me. Given that we are where we are now, it would be a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to keep us up. There must be a deeper problem here than continual managerial failure, surely all of them can’t have “lost “ the dressing room. Therefore the issue has to lie with the recruitment policy and it’s these people who must be removed from our club as soon as possible. Sadly I think we will be relegated this season, I hope that I’m wrong, as too many of the teams around us are picking up points on a far more regular basis than we are. Either way if we stay up or go down if the board don’t act to remove those in charge of recruitment even staying in League One will be a challenge. I would agree with much of this. There must be something culturally wrong with the football club. Successive managers have failed and we have had huge turnover in players over the last few years without any real improvement. Nothing that we seem to do either in the dugout, on the pitch, or off the pitch (altering our recruitment process) makes any difference. The club just seems to be doomed. If we go into League One, then I am not sure that the club will recover for a very long time.
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Post by thepottypotter on Feb 11, 2024 19:46:56 GMT
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on things since Hughes left. I find it difficult to believe that the managers that we’ve hired and fired since that that time are all bad. Yes some may have tried tactics that weren’t suitable to or were even beyond the comprehension of the players at their disposal, but for them all to have “ failed “ in the eyes of the fans and the board astounds me. Given that we are where we are now, it would be a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to keep us up. There must be a deeper problem here than continual managerial failure, surely all of them can’t have “lost “ the dressing room. Therefore the issue has to lie with the recruitment policy and it’s these people who must be removed from our club as soon as possible. Sadly I think we will be relegated this season, I hope that I’m wrong, as too many of the teams around us are picking up points on a far more regular basis than we are. Either way if we stay up or go down if the board don’t act to remove those in charge of recruitment even staying in League One will be a challenge. I would agree with much of this. There must be something culturally wrong with the football club. Successive managers have failed and we have had huge turnover in players over the last few years without any real improvement. Nothing that we seem to do either in the dugout, on the pitch, or off the pitch (altering our recruitment process) makes any difference. The club just seems to be doomed. If we go into League One, then I am not sure that the club will recover for a very long time. JC needs to immediately fire RM and Jared. He should hire external independent consultants to review the club from top to bottom for the last 8 years. Then lead a thorough recruitment process for the correct DOF, who can then start to restructure the club.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 11, 2024 20:25:44 GMT
TP might belong here but these were the starts to his two stints as Stoke boss: 2002: 9 games 3 points 2006: 10 games 9 points (9 games 8 points) The latter season being after a full preseason preparation. Nothing to suggest an immediate impact and on both occasions he needed to bring in players to address the situation… Ricardo Fuller scored in that 10th game. If he returned and failed to better those two starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Wouldn’t touch SA with a barge pole. If I could be arsed, I'd look up the impact he had at other clubs in the first 10 games to counter that (Palace, West Brom etc) but safe to say, I really can't be arsed. 😂 The impact he would have on the crowd would be worth a few points at home anyway. Even those who weren't big fans the first time around (I was very anti-Pulis for a long time) would surely see the romance of it and get behind him and the team. Alan Durban had a similar effect at the tail end of the 97/98 season when we managed a couple of heroic wins despite being shit for months. However, it was too late by then. Sheff Wed - 7 points from 10 games
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 11, 2024 20:30:59 GMT
can we afford sack SS , Tricky or the Yank , how would it impact ffp ? Biggly I suspect. We've check mated ourselves with the AN overhaul. Schumacher has to stay and we have to pray very hard every night before beddy bo bo's 🙏
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Post by Marc01 on Feb 11, 2024 20:35:13 GMT
TP might belong here but these were the starts to his two stints as Stoke boss: 2002: 9 games 3 points 2006: 10 games 9 points (9 games 8 points) The latter season being after a full preseason preparation. Nothing to suggest an immediate impact and on both occasions he needed to bring in players to address the situation… Ricardo Fuller scored in that 10th game. Wouldn’t touch SA with a barge pole. If I could be arsed, I'd look up the impact he had at other clubs in the first 10 games to counter that (Palace, West Brom etc) but safe to say, I really can't be arsed. 😂 The impact he would have on the crowd would be worth a few points at home anyway. Even those who weren't big fans the first time around (I was very anti-Pulis for a long time) would surely see the romance of it and get behind him and the team. Alan Durban had a similar effect at the tail end of the 97/98 season when we managed a couple of heroic wins despite being shit for months. However, it was too late by then. From recollection TP won manager of the season at Palace; strangely enough by throwing off the shackles, but I think he had a collection of good forwards. Noting the lack of characters on the pitch, I reckon the romance would soon dissipate if the dreadful home form continued with similar starts to his two previous here and his stint at the Owls. Fans falling out with each other during away games at Barnsley and even at Scunthorpe in the promotion season could be a thing again 🙂 I’m not so sure that those 2 home wins under Durban were heroic, but the last minute win courtesy of Kyle Lightbourne v Pompey was enjoyable. If TP returned and failed to better those starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Major panic with 5 / 6 games to go?
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Post by superjw on Feb 11, 2024 20:53:31 GMT
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on things since Hughes left. I find it difficult to believe that the managers that we’ve hired and fired since that that time are all bad. Yes some may have tried tactics that weren’t suitable to or were even beyond the comprehension of the players at their disposal, but for them all to have “ failed “ in the eyes of the fans and the board astounds me. Given that we are where we are now, it would be a remarkable achievement for Schumacher to keep us up. There must be a deeper problem here than continual managerial failure, surely all of them can’t have “lost “ the dressing room. Therefore the issue has to lie with the recruitment policy and it’s these people who must be removed from our club as soon as possible. Sadly I think we will be relegated this season, I hope that I’m wrong, as too many of the teams around us are picking up points on a far more regular basis than we are. Either way if we stay up or go down if the board don’t act to remove those in charge of recruitment even staying in League One will be a challenge. I would agree with much of this. There must be something culturally wrong with the football club. Successive managers have failed and we have had huge turnover in players over the last few years without any real improvement. Nothing that we seem to do either in the dugout, on the pitch, or off the pitch (altering our recruitment process) makes any difference. The club just seems to be doomed. If we go into League One, then I am not sure that the club will recover for a very long time. I’ve said this for years now, the moment Hughes left the writing was on the wall for the club to where we are now. Remember the south stand curse at the millennium stadium? It’s probably come back to haunt us and we are now completely cursed. The club needs a lorry load of holy water
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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 11, 2024 21:58:09 GMT
I would agree with much of this. There must be something culturally wrong with the football club. Successive managers have failed and we have had huge turnover in players over the last few years without any real improvement. Nothing that we seem to do either in the dugout, on the pitch, or off the pitch (altering our recruitment process) makes any difference. The club just seems to be doomed. If we go into League One, then I am not sure that the club will recover for a very long time. I’ve said this for years now, the moment Hughes left the writing was on the wall for the club to where we are now. Remember the south stand curse at the millennium stadium? It’s probably come back to haunt us and we are now completely cursed. The club needs a lorry load of holy water Ever since the infamous "what's all the fuss about?" quote we have been steadily declining - stumbling from one disaster to the next. Ah, the South Stand jinx at the Millenium stadium. Now that is a blast from the past! 😂
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 11, 2024 22:09:41 GMT
If we get hammered in the next 2 games then we have to act - tier 3 would be an absolute disaster.
Possibly give Gallagher a shot - the effort and motivation of the players noticeably went up in his 2 games in charge, he knows the players and they seem to respect him, so I don't think we would have much to lose.
Failing that it could be Warnock time - if they employed Sam I think I would officially retire.
Love to see Pulis at the club in some role, particularly in overlooking what we need in the transfer window - we would have two 6ft 7in twats in central defence and the Berlin wall re-built in 5 mins if he was here - and be able to defend set pieces and be a threat at the other end from them - as it stands we have no fecker who can head a ball, no characters at the club - just utterly fecking Beige.
The transfer windows over the last decade now have been the hardest to fathom, we can have zero players in certain positions and yet we don't seem to have anybody at the club who realises it - like the left side of defence going into this window, no right-sided defenders going into our relegation from the prem season - just bizarre
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Post by dirtclod on Feb 11, 2024 22:47:58 GMT
Think many of us (I would) would fancy the ole 7 pub crawl. Preferably not as a destination for SCFC opposition.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 12, 2024 6:13:45 GMT
If I could be arsed, I'd look up the impact he had at other clubs in the first 10 games to counter that (Palace, West Brom etc) but safe to say, I really can't be arsed. 😂 The impact he would have on the crowd would be worth a few points at home anyway. Even those who weren't big fans the first time around (I was very anti-Pulis for a long time) would surely see the romance of it and get behind him and the team. Alan Durban had a similar effect at the tail end of the 97/98 season when we managed a couple of heroic wins despite being shit for months. However, it was too late by then. From recollection TP won manager of the season at Palace; strangely enough by throwing off the shackles, but I think he had a collection of good forwards. Noting the lack of characters on the pitch, I reckon the romance would soon dissipate if the dreadful home form continued with similar starts to his two previous here and his stint at the Owls. Fans falling out with each other during away games at Barnsley and even at Scunthorpe in the promotion season could be a thing again 🙂 I’m not so sure that those 2 home wins under Durban were heroic, but the last minute win courtesy of Kyle Lightbourne v Pompey was enjoyable. If TP returned and failed to better those starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Major panic with 5 / 6 games to go? If appointing TP didn't work then we'd go down and there'd be nothing left to try. We'd have finally got what we've deserved since coming down from the Prem.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 12, 2024 6:19:24 GMT
From recollection TP won manager of the season at Palace; strangely enough by throwing off the shackles, but I think he had a collection of good forwards. Noting the lack of characters on the pitch, I reckon the romance would soon dissipate if the dreadful home form continued with similar starts to his two previous here and his stint at the Owls. Fans falling out with each other during away games at Barnsley and even at Scunthorpe in the promotion season could be a thing again 🙂 I’m not so sure that those 2 home wins under Durban were heroic, but the last minute win courtesy of Kyle Lightbourne v Pompey was enjoyable. If TP returned and failed to better those starts (both inferior to the points haul of the current boss) what would you do then? Major panic with 5 / 6 games to go? If appointing TP didn't work then we'd go down and there'd be nothing left to try. We'd have finally got what we've deserved since coming down from the Prem. I really don't think I care anymore.
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