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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 22:23:58 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime?
Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory?
The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police.
Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran?
I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2024 22:29:44 GMT
Burning any book is just cuntish. The ultimate sign you’ve lost it as a person/society.
Absolutely no need for burning the Quran. Have a read of it if you’re that bothered. See what it actually says and then argue based on that. I never have but a lad I work with did because he wanted to know what it actually says and how much of what is done/said from Muslims and none Muslims comes from dodgy interpretations of the text. I can’t remember the precise things tbh but there was a few things where the text doesn’t tally with some of the beliefs you’d think most Muslims would have. Anyway I’m digressing because it was I thought interesting.
Anyway….what a cunt for burning that book.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jan 13, 2024 22:33:23 GMT
Burn all religious material, fucking barbecue the lot of it.
Fantastical make believe that has set the world back thousands of years, fuck it off.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jan 13, 2024 22:40:44 GMT
It's a book, burning it doesn't really mean anything.
Unless you want it to mean something.
Those getting upset about it "fuel the burning"
Someone paid for it, regardless of what the subject is.
And another one will be sold.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 13, 2024 22:50:40 GMT
Supported World of Twist on their East European tour in 1989 I believe.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 22:57:59 GMT
It's a book, burning it doesn't really mean anything. Unless you want it to mean something. Those getting upset about it "fuel the burning" Someone paid for it, regardless of what the subject is. And another one will be sold. I'm an Atheist, always have been, was brought up an Atheist, was never baptised and was always excused RE at school on my parents request. But I was also taught, that to many people, their religion and their religious texts meant the world to them and I should always be respectful of their beliefs (especially in public). To suggest that burning the Bible or the Quran in public doesn't actually mean anything, is, well, quite simply, wrong. It means a lot, to many, many people. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 13, 2024 23:14:20 GMT
Is there only one?
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jan 13, 2024 23:16:49 GMT
It's a book, burning it doesn't really mean anything. Unless you want it to mean something. Those getting upset about it "fuel the burning" Someone paid for it, regardless of what the subject is. And another one will be sold. I'm an Atheist, always have been, was brought up an Atheist, was never baptised and was always excused RE at school on my parents request. But I was also taught, that to many people, their religion and their religious texts meant the world to them and I should always be respectful of their beliefs (especially in public). To suggest that burning the Bible or the Quran in public doesn't actually mean anything, is, well, quite simply, wrong. It means a lot, to many, many people. I understand it means something to a lot of people. What does it really mean ? Nothing it's a book and thats all it is. It's just people allowing themselves to be upset by it. We will have to agree to disagree on the burning of a bible or the Quran and if it means anything. If they were settling light to people I could understand the upset. |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 13, 2024 23:23:14 GMT
Burning any book is just cuntish. The ultimate sign you’ve lost it as a person/society. What if it's one of Katie Price's 6 (SIX) autobiographies? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2024 23:25:49 GMT
Burning any book is just cuntish. The ultimate sign you’ve lost it as a person/society. What if it's one of Katie Price's 6 (SIX) autobiographies? They still have cultural importance 🤣 (Recycle them) |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 23:35:42 GMT
I'm an Atheist, always have been, was brought up an Atheist, was never baptised and was always excused RE at school on my parents request. But I was also taught, that to many people, their religion and their religious texts meant the world to them and I should always be respectful of their beliefs (especially in public). To suggest that burning the Bible or the Quran in public doesn't actually mean anything, is, well, quite simply, wrong. It means a lot, to many, many people. I understand it means something to a lot of people. What does it really mean ? Nothing it's a book and thats all it is. It's just people allowing themselves to be upset by it. We will have to agree to disagree on the burning of a bible or the Quran and if it means anything. If they were settling light to people I could understand the upset. Because YOU only see it as a few pages of paper and that it doesn't mean anything to YOU personally, doesn't then mean it doesn't mean anything to somebody else. I guess burning the Stars and Stripes in front of the Whitehouse or burning the Union Jack outside the Houses of Parliament means nothing either because it's simply a piece of cloth? Symbols and symbolism matters, as does having empathy and respect for people's beliefs and allegiances, to not do so, can often, ultimately, lead to people being (metaphorically) set on fire. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jan 13, 2024 23:38:54 GMT
Declaring you're an atheist is on par with declaring you're a vegan/vegetarian/gay etc to those who never asked or care. Why do some insist on declaring they are this or that?
Why not just get on with it?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 23:40:45 GMT
Declaring you're an atheist is on par with declaring you're a vegan/vegetarian/gay etc to those who never asked or care. Why do some insist on declaring they are this or that? Why not just get on with it? Don't think I've ever mentioned it before on here in over 25 years. But in this discussion, context is important. |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 13, 2024 23:58:53 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime? Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory? The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police. Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ... You have never seen the burning of a bible as a mainstream story |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2024 0:03:15 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime? Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory? The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police. Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ... You have never seen the burning of a bible as a mainstream story I don't follow you? |
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jan 14, 2024 0:36:33 GMT
I understand it means something to a lot of people. What does it really mean ? Nothing it's a book and thats all it is. It's just people allowing themselves to be upset by it. We will have to agree to disagree on the burning of a bible or the Quran and if it means anything. If they were settling light to people I could understand the upset. Because YOU only see it as a few pages of paper and that it doesn't mean anything to YOU personally, doesn't then mean it doesn't mean anything to somebody else. I guess burning the Stars and Stripes in front of the Whitehouse or burning the Union Jack outside the Houses of Parliament means nothing either because it's simply a piece of cloth? Symbols and symbolism matters, as does having empathy and respect for people's beliefs and allegiances, to not do so, can often, ultimately, lead to people being (metaphorically) set on fire. I have empathy for peoples beliefs, but thats what they are other peoples beliefs. Burning the union Jack or the stars and stripes doesn't make me want to get into some sort of agument or fight. Invading my country would be differnet. like I said orginally, its a book. If people ignored the burning then people wouldn't do it. The loss of a book doen't alter anyones life, unless they want it to. To be honest I didn't even watch the video. The title of thread enabled me to answer the question in what I see as the most logical answer.. Is this any differnt to someone burning a football flag outside a football ground ? Or someone in a school playground call someone a dick. There are people itching for a battle everywhere. I am sure it says turn the other cheek in the Bible somewhere, not that I have ever spent anytime reading it. I care for myself my family and fellow humans, regardless of colour or nation or relgion. And burning a flag or book is neither here or there.. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2024 0:49:10 GMT
Because YOU only see it as a few pages of paper and that it doesn't mean anything to YOU personally, doesn't then mean it doesn't mean anything to somebody else. I guess burning the Stars and Stripes in front of the Whitehouse or burning the Union Jack outside the Houses of Parliament means nothing either because it's simply a piece of cloth? Symbols and symbolism matters, as does having empathy and respect for people's beliefs and allegiances, to not do so, can often, ultimately, lead to people being (metaphorically) set on fire. I have empathy for peoples beliefs, but thats what they are other peoples beliefs. Burning the union Jack or the stars and stripes doesn't make me want to get into some sort of agument or fight. Invading my country would be differnet. like I said orginally, its a book. If people ignored the burning then people wouldn't do it. The loss of a book doen't alter anyones life, unless they want it to. To be honest I didn't even watch the video. The title of thread enabled me to answer the question in what I see as the most logical answer.. Is this any differnt to someone burning a football flag outside a football ground ? Or someone in a school playground call someone a dick. There are people itching for a battle everywhere. I am sure it says turn the other cheek in the Bible somewhere, not that I have ever spent anytime reading it. I care for myself my family and fellow humans, regardless of colour or nation or relgion. And burning a flag or book is neither here or there.. You see, for me your opening line of your post, contradicts the rest of your post. You don't actually have empathy for other people's beliefs and allegiances, if you did, you would understand how sacred those texts are to many people's entire existence. If they weren't so precious to them, then there'd be no point in the deliberate provocation of burning them. It isn't merely the benign action of burning a piece of paper or cloth, it is the aggressive action of deliberately expressing hatred for other people. It is actually (and purposefully) more offensive than carrying a banner proclaiming death to Jews/Christians/Muslims etc. |
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Post by wannabee on Jan 14, 2024 1:06:48 GMT
Book Burning has been a regular pastime since recorded history began and possibly before then
Its usually an act of provocation to invite a reaction or to try and erase History or reality It is common among illiterates who are incapable of understanding the content or debating it on its merits
The first recorded imbecile who ordered a mass burning was Qin Shi Huang Emporor of China who wanted history to begin with him,
The Romans were partial to Book Burning Augustus objecting particularly to books which gave the wrong prophesies
Alexander was pretty Great at Book Burning too
established under Alexander the Great in northern Egypt around 331 BC. The library was burned down at least three times over hundreds of years and is now permanently erased.
Not to be left out Muslims engaged in a bit of Book Burning especially the ruler Caliph Umar
Not to be outdone the Catholics got in on the act particularly under Girolamo Savonarola in what became known as a “bonfire of the vanities,”
Pope Gregory IX was a dab hand at it too, he had a particular fancy of burning Jewish theological works The Talmud etc
England not to be left out of it Henry VIII was a vigorous burner of Religious Books he didn't agree with
Of course in more modern times the Nazis used it as a recreational exercise to keep it's Youth occupied and they embraced it fervently
Mao Zedong had a liking for his own Little Red Book but others, not so much.
The US has recently taken up the Sport of Book Burning with Ron de Santis it's chief Cheerleader but it's not confined to just Florida. Of major objectionability is J K Rowling's references to sorcery
I suppose the only conclusion to be drawn is that bigots unable to articulate an argument have always been amongst us, but worse are the idiots that follow them
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jan 14, 2024 1:07:26 GMT
I have empathy for peoples beliefs, but thats what they are other peoples beliefs. Burning the union Jack or the stars and stripes doesn't make me want to get into some sort of agument or fight. Invading my country would be differnet. like I said orginally, its a book. If people ignored the burning then people wouldn't do it. The loss of a book doen't alter anyones life, unless they want it to. To be honest I didn't even watch the video. The title of thread enabled me to answer the question in what I see as the most logical answer.. Is this any differnt to someone burning a football flag outside a football ground ? Or someone in a school playground call someone a dick. There are people itching for a battle everywhere. I am sure it says turn the other cheek in the Bible somewhere, not that I have ever spent anytime reading it. I care for myself my family and fellow humans, regardless of colour or nation or relgion. And burning a flag or book is neither here or there.. You see, for me your opening line of your post, contradicts the rest of your post. You don't actually have empathy for other people's beliefs and allegiances, if you did, you would understand how sacred those texts are to many people's entire existence. If they weren't so precious to them, then there'd be no point in the deliberate provocation of people by doing so. It isn't merely the benign action of burning a piece of paper or cloth, it is the aggressive action of deliberately expressing hatred for other people. It is actually (and purposefully) more offensive than carrying a banner proclaiming death to Jews/Christians/Muslims etc. I am happy for people to believe in anything. But it's never worth a war,fight,battle. Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you have to defend it by effecting others. If you believe in something the burning of a book is totally immaterial. It's a belief and burning every book in the world wouldn't alter your belief. Anyway interesting chat, I am heading to bed . I live opposite a church and the bells will be ringing at 9am in the morning. But that's life, it doesn't inspire me to walk up there and burn a bible outside or shout insults from my bedroom window. Enjoy your evening. |
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Post by musik on Jan 14, 2024 2:15:43 GMT
Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? It's obvious from the video, the police are defending the guy from being hurt, they are defending the right to free speech. They have been allowed to burn the Holy Book. However, it's madness to burn it. And I've read the Quran and the Bible and I must say the first pages of each is enough. If they had been that short, like pamphlets, we wouldn't have any religion wars. Why? It basically says how you should live your life and treat other people. Later they give room for interpretation. The similarities are many many more than the differences. After all it's the same God so it comes to no surprise; God is God. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2024 2:44:41 GMT
Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? It's obvious from the video, the police are defending the guy from being hurt, they are defending the right to free speech.
I genuinely hope that you are right musik but can we be sure that the police would act in the same way if he was burning a rainbow flag or a copy of the Torah?
I'm not so sure.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 14, 2024 5:55:59 GMT
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Post by felonious on Jan 14, 2024 7:55:49 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime? Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory?The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police. Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ... Very good  |
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Post by felonious on Jan 14, 2024 8:00:13 GMT
That is truly shocking and truly underreported. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 14, 2024 10:59:23 GMT
A load of nonsense…
More important things in the world than this drivel
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Post by danceswithclams on Jan 14, 2024 11:04:23 GMT
Supported World of Twist on their East European tour in 1989 I believe. 6/10 Structure and accuracy could be better but a decent effort all the same. |
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 14, 2024 11:29:11 GMT
A load of nonsense… More important things in the world than this drivel The police should get the water canon out and soak the lot of them. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jan 14, 2024 11:45:19 GMT
Religion is a great divider and has caused way to many fallouts and in some cases wars.
I think book burning is childish and in this case very offensive but let’s not think this is a one way thing and that sometimes the reactions to such acts are far worse for less serious or inflammatory .
I remember from back in the late 80s Salman Rushdi and more recently the teacher that had to go into hiding due to death threats.
There’s bad on both sides especially when religion goes beyond just having a faith and turns into fanaticism which is sad as the vast majority of all religions are good people.
I’m not sure i’ve seen many examples of police dealing with people burning bibles over robustly but I’m happy to be corrected.
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Post by sticky on Jan 14, 2024 12:07:24 GMT
The reaction to burning a piece of paper, is ridiculous. It’s 2024 ffs.
Wasn’t that long ago we had all that uproar with that school teacher, il never get my head around it tbf
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Post by frasier37 on Jan 14, 2024 12:21:48 GMT
There are extremists in every walk of life that ruin the origin of everything created for good purposes
Extreme religion
Extreme right wing
Extreme left wing
Extreme environmentalist etc...
We see one and immediately try to over swing to the other side of it.
We all need to meet in the middle calmly and talk and understand people's issues rather than demonising
Its only frustration that causes this stupidity in people
You would think that wed have evolved much better by now.....Fucking doomed aren't we
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