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Post by OldStokie on Jan 14, 2024 12:42:05 GMT
To most of the people in the world it's just a book. But to Muslims it's their sacred text and they would defend it to the death. Because I follow no religion, I find that illogical. But I wouldn't burn any book because of what it represents. I think it's plain stoopid. Those who burn the Quran do it simply to try and spread their own hatred to others and also to inflame those who follow the Muslim faith.
OS.
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Post by felonious on Jan 14, 2024 13:26:50 GMT
There are extremists in every walk of life that ruin the origin of everything created for good purposes Extreme religion Extreme right wing Extreme left wing Extreme environmentalist etc... We see one and immediately try to over swing to the other side of it. We all need to meet in the middle calmly and talk and understand people's issues rather than demonising Its only frustration that causes this stupidity in people You would think that wed have evolved much better by now.....Fucking doomed aren't we Very good I see you've nicked the keyboard of him again Mrs Frasier  |
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Post by frasier37 on Jan 14, 2024 13:31:42 GMT
There are extremists in every walk of life that ruin the origin of everything created for good purposes Extreme religion Extreme right wing Extreme left wing Extreme environmentalist etc... We see one and immediately try to over swing to the other side of it. We all need to meet in the middle calmly and talk and understand people's issues rather than demonising Its only frustration that causes this stupidity in people You would think that wed have evolved much better by now.....Fucking doomed aren't we Very good I see you've nicked the keyboard of him again Mrs Frasier i'd burn her bra if i didnt know they would hit the floor |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2024 13:45:54 GMT
Absolutely it's the same and this has continued at almost at a rate of one a fortnight since this original piece was published. I guess the only difference here, is that this is done anonymously under the cover of darkness and without the protection of the police but yes, they are both sides of the same coin and are equally as sickening. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2024 14:19:11 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime? Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory? The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police. Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ... Burning anything is absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech (which rightly doesn’t exist as “freedom of speech” won’t get you out of verbal domestic abuse, or shouting racist abuse in the street, for example). Acts of vandalism are not speech. People should not be free to vandalise. Else what is next? Acts of violence being protected by “freedom of speech”. Burning a book is intentionally provocative and intends to offend and cause harm to others. Particularly if you film it! If you don’t like a book, don’t buy it. Ignore it. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 14, 2024 14:25:43 GMT
Whilst I completely believe in a person's right to free speech, sometimes, surely, you have to ask, where does free speech cross the line and become a hate crime? Just what is the POINT in burning the Quran in public, can it be for no other reason but to be inflammatory? The thing that disturbs me most about this video, is the action of the police. Are they defending the people burning the books right to free speech, or are they defending them from burning the Quran? I somehow suspect that if a bunch of Muslims had been burning copies of the Bible in public, then their reaction would have been somewhat different ... Burning anything is absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech (which rightly doesn’t exist as “freedom of speech” won’t get you out of verbal domestic abuse, or shouting racist abuse in the street, for example). Acts of vandalism are not speech. People should not be free to vandalise. Else what is next? Acts of violence being protected by “freedom of speech”. Burning a book is intentionally provocative and intends to offend and cause harm to others. Particularly if you film it! If you don’t like a book, don’t buy it. Ignore it. Live and let live springs to mind, unfortunately many don't practice what they preach. |
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Post by felonious on Jan 14, 2024 15:08:20 GMT
Burning anything is absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech (which rightly doesn’t exist as “freedom of speech” won’t get you out of verbal domestic abuse, or shouting racist abuse in the street, for example). Acts of vandalism are not speech. People should not be free to vandalise. Else what is next? Acts of violence being protected by “freedom of speech”. Burning a book is intentionally provocative and intends to offend and cause harm to others. Particularly if you film it! If you don’t like a book, don’t buy it. Ignore it. Live and live springs to mind, unfortunately many don't practice what they preach. I suppose this book and the Bible are open to all sorts of interpretation which are unfortunately acted upon by believers. Elton John has probably received more copies of the Bible than any other person on earth would anyone begrudge him if he used them on his fire  Freedom of speech to lambast homosexuality, disability, immodestly dressed women in Western societies should be a thing of the past ...... |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 14, 2024 15:18:59 GMT
Live and live springs to mind, unfortunately many don't practice what they preach. I suppose this book and the Bible are open to all sorts of interpretation which are unfortunately acted upon by believers. Elton John has probably received more copies of the Bible than any other person on earth would anyone begrudge him if he used them on his fire Freedom of speech to lambast homosexuality, disability, immodestly dressed women in Western societies should be a thing of the past ...... Hissing at footballers wives. . . Must all be Derby County fans. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 14, 2024 15:29:19 GMT
I suppose this book and the Bible are open to all sorts of interpretation which are unfortunately acted upon by believers. Elton John has probably received more copies of the Bible than any other person on earth would anyone begrudge him if he used them on his fire Freedom of speech to lambast homosexuality, disability, immodestly dressed women in Western societies should be a thing of the past ...... Pissing on footballers wives. . . Weirdo🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2024 15:34:54 GMT
I don’t know why anyone would purposefully go out of their way to hurt someone else. That’s all this is. There’s no other reason to do it. It’s shameful.
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Post by emretezzy on Jan 14, 2024 15:58:27 GMT
It's a book, burning it doesn't really mean anything. Unless you want it to mean something. Those getting upset about it "fuel the burning" Someone paid for it, regardless of what the subject is. And another one will be sold. I'm an Atheist, always have been, was brought up an Atheist, was never baptised and was always excused RE at school on my parents request. But I was also taught, that to many people, their religion and their religious texts meant the world to them and I should always be respectful of their beliefs (especially in public). To suggest that burning the Bible or the Quran in public doesn't actually mean anything, is, well, quite simply, wrong. It means a lot, to many, many people. That's exactly his point. Look for offense and you'll find it where ever you want. I have lived in an Arabic country and they would find this barbaric and beyond offensive. But in reality its just paper and a bit of cardboard. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 14, 2024 16:03:02 GMT
Pissing on footballers wives. . . Weirdo🤷🏻♂️ Kyle Walker 🤷 |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jan 14, 2024 16:25:32 GMT
There are extremists in every walk of life that ruin the origin of everything created for good purposes Extreme religion Extreme right wing Extreme left wing Extreme environmentalist etc... We see one and immediately try to over swing to the other side of it. We all need to meet in the middle calmly and talk and understand people's issues rather than demonising Its only frustration that causes this stupidity in people You would think that wed have evolved much better by now.....Fucking doomed aren't we spot on |
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Jan 14, 2024 16:50:10 GMT
Burning The Bible would probably cause a few local parishioners to get in a tiff, but fucking hell, burning the Quran, you may as well put a target on yr back for the rest of yr life , just ask Salman Rushdie.
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 14, 2024 17:14:48 GMT
"Where one burns books, one will - in the end burn people, also."
Heinrich Heine.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 14, 2024 17:23:41 GMT
Burning The Bible would probably cause a few local parishioners to get in a tiff, but fucking hell, burning the Quran, you may as well put a target on yr back for the rest of yr life , just ask Salman Rushdie. Imagine the monty python crew doing the Islamic version of the life of Brian 😆 |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 14, 2024 17:37:43 GMT
You see, for me your opening line of your post, contradicts the rest of your post. You don't actually have empathy for other people's beliefs and allegiances, if you did, you would understand how sacred those texts are to many people's entire existence. If they weren't so precious to them, then there'd be no point in the deliberate provocation of people by doing so. It isn't merely the benign action of burning a piece of paper or cloth, it is the aggressive action of deliberately expressing hatred for other people. It is actually (and purposefully) more offensive than carrying a banner proclaiming death to Jews/Christians/Muslims etc. I am happy for people to believe in anything. But it's never worth a war,fight,battle
Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you have to defend it by effecting others.If you believe in something the burning of a book is totally immaterial. It's a belief and burning every book in the world wouldn't alter your belief. Anyway interesting chat, I am heading to bed . I live opposite a church and the bells will be ringing at 9am in the morning. But that's life, it doesn't inspire me to walk up there and burn a bible outside or shout insults from my bedroom window. Enjoy your evening. Not wishing to be offensive or disrespectful to your beliefs but what is your opinion on Argentinian's belief that the Falkland Islands belong to them and a war was fought over the disagreement. Or more recently Putin's belief that Ukraine should be under his rule. Surely there has to be a line of acceptability regarding the need to go to war over something. |
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Jan 14, 2024 18:44:37 GMT
Burning The Bible would probably cause a few local parishioners to get in a tiff, but fucking hell, burning the Quran, you may as well put a target on yr back for the rest of yr life , just ask Salman Rushdie. Imagine the monty python crew doing the Islamic version of the life of Brian 😆 Or Dave Alan, Spitting Image, and a few others taking the piss. You only have to look at that French satirical mag Charlie Hebdew ( I think ) caused uproar amongst the religion of peace. |
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 14, 2024 19:11:36 GMT
Imagine the monty python crew doing the Islamic version of the life of Brian 😆 Or Dave Alan, Spitting Image, and a few others taking the piss. You only have to look at that French satirical mag Charlie Hebdew ( I think ) caused uproar amongst the religion of peace. Life of Brian was just one big hilarious pile on wasn't it, nothing was off limits which made it all the more funny. Very nuanced. |
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Jan 14, 2024 19:25:45 GMT
Or Dave Alan, Spitting Image, and a few others taking the piss. You only have to look at that French satirical mag Charlie Hebdew ( I think ) caused uproar amongst the religion of peace. Life of Brian was just one big hilarious pile on wasn't it, nothing was off limits which made it all the more funny. Very nuanced. Absolutely, imagine if that was portraying he who must not be named... |
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Post by Foster on Jan 14, 2024 20:06:47 GMT
Life of Brian was just one big hilarious pile on wasn't it, nothing was off limits which made it all the more funny. Very nuanced. Absolutely, imagine if that was portraying he who must not be named... Voldemort? |
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jan 14, 2024 20:21:45 GMT
I am happy for people to believe in anything. But it's never worth a war,fight,battle
Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you have to defend it by effecting others.If you believe in something the burning of a book is totally immaterial. It's a belief and burning every book in the world wouldn't alter your belief. Anyway interesting chat, I am heading to bed . I live opposite a church and the bells will be ringing at 9am in the morning. But that's life, it doesn't inspire me to walk up there and burn a bible outside or shout insults from my bedroom window. Enjoy your evening. Not wishing to be offensive or disrespectful to your beliefs but what is your opinion on Argentinian's belief that the Falkland Islands belong to them and a war was fought over the disagreement. Or more recently Putin's belief that Ukraine should be under his rule. Surely there has to be a line of acceptability regarding the need to go to war over something. Argentina invaded and tried to take over an Island of British people that wanted to remain British. It wasn't a religious belief and it didn't involve a book being set on fire. Although I do remember a few people dancing on burning union jacks. The invading was the issue. Putin invaded Ukraine for many reasons. He shouldn't be there. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 15, 2024 7:24:31 GMT
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Post by felonious on Jan 15, 2024 8:44:13 GMT
They're only Catholics there's absolutely zero interest unless it's a paedophile story and even then there's very little interest. |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 15, 2024 10:22:28 GMT
You have never seen the burning of a bible as a mainstream story I don't follow you? i don't agree with burning anything and i fully understand how some religious groups would be upset. However there is never a stories of christian groups being up in arms when a bible is burned. It is fair to say it is usually only a story when it is islam. im not getting on an anti-islam rant but the media like to stir the pot up with islam but are largely quiet when it is another religion. This just inflames the muslims which causes conflict and aggro |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 15, 2024 10:27:23 GMT
i don't agree with burning anything and i fully understand how some religious groups would be upset. However there is never a stories of christian groups being up in arms when a bible is burned. It is fair to say it is usually only a story when it is islam. im not getting on an anti-islam rant but the media like to stir the pot up with islam but are largely quiet when it is another religion. This just inflames the muslims which causes conflict and aggro I haven't seen this burning of the Quran story on any MSM. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 15, 2024 11:00:48 GMT
i don't agree with burning anything and i fully understand how some religious groups would be upset. However there is never a stories of christian groups being up in arms when a bible is burned. It is fair to say it is usually only a story when it is islam. im not getting on an anti-islam rant but the media like to stir the pot up with islam but are largely quiet when it is another religion. This just inflames the muslims which causes conflict and aggro I haven't seen this burning of the Quran story on any MSM. The EEB is my MSM! |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 15, 2024 13:58:50 GMT
Surely the relevant question is why are the people doing what they are doing and what is the appropriate response? In the case of the burning of the Quran it looks like a deliberately provocative act and if so in this country the perpetrators would be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred and if proven guilty they would receive the appropriate sanction. I don't know enough about the law in the Netherlands to comment - although the election if a known right winger might have emboldened some people to do this under the banner of right to free speech. In the case of the Catholic churches it is arson and regardless of who did it or their motivation I'd be gob smacked it the perpetrators, if caught, didn't receive the relevant sanction under Canadian law - which would way more severe than that for inciting racial hatred and no-one would take the right to free speech as a defence. The motivation behind the two incidents looks completely different. In the first case it's an act designed to provoke and in the second an act of revenge based on false information. If you are trying to make out there is some sort of double standard your example simply doesn't make any sense - the two events are in no way equivalent. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 15, 2024 14:26:28 GMT
Surely the relevant question is why are the people doing what they are doing and what is the appropriate response? In the case of the burning of the Quran it looks like a deliberately provocative act and if so in this country the perpetrators would be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred and if proven guilty they would receive the appropriate sanction. I don't know enough about the law in the Netherlands to comment - although the election if a known right winger might have emboldened some people to do this under the banner of right to free speech. In the case of the Catholic churches it is arson and regardless of who did it or their motivation I'd be gob smacked it the perpetrators, if caught, didn't receive the relevant sanction under Canadian law - which would way more severe than that for inciting racial hatred and no-one would take the right to free speech as a defence. The motivation behind the two incidents looks completely different. In the first case it's an act designed to provoke and in the second an act of revenge based on false information. If you are trying to make out there is some sort of double standard your example simply doesn't make any sense - the two events are in no way equivalent. I refer you to my previous example. www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/france-s-other-burning-churchesPeople seem to get less het up over one than the other. Burning a book, despite being despicable, doesn't run the risk of killing anyone. All works of fiction and their associated landmarks deserve treating with respect. As I said live and let live, it's the only way. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 15, 2024 17:54:33 GMT
Surely the relevant question is why are the people doing what they are doing and what is the appropriate response? In the case of the burning of the Quran it looks like a deliberately provocative act and if so in this country the perpetrators would be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred and if proven guilty they would receive the appropriate sanction. I don't know enough about the law in the Netherlands to comment - although the election if a known right winger might have emboldened some people to do this under the banner of right to free speech. In the case of the Catholic churches it is arson and regardless of who did it or their motivation I'd be gob smacked it the perpetrators, if caught, didn't receive the relevant sanction under Canadian law - which would way more severe than that for inciting racial hatred and no-one would take the right to free speech as a defence. The motivation behind the two incidents looks completely different. In the first case it's an act designed to provoke and in the second an act of revenge based on false information. If you are trying to make out there is some sort of double standard your example simply doesn't make any sense - the two events are in no way equivalent. I refer you to my previous example. www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/france-s-other-burning-churchesPeople seem to get less het up over one than the other. Burning a book, despite being despicable, doesn't run the risk of killing anyone. All works of fiction and their associated landmarks deserve treating with respect. As I said live and let live, it's the only way. So by the same logic the OP obviously believes murder is ok because he created a post about burning the Qur'an rather than one about murder? And if you are so concerned about burning churches why didn't you start a thread about it? The two issues you raised are also completely unconnected. The burning of churches in Canada is down to a conspiracy theory among some native Americans that there are mass graves in those churches and the arson in France is down to a mixed bag of (and I quote) "radical secularists, anarchists, leftists, feminists, sexual libertarians, feminists, Islamists, radical Muslims, and a Satanist group" - which sounds like the mercenary group organised by Hedley Lamarr in Blazing Saddles. The only common thread is the arson is related to churches - as a co-ordinated assault on Christianity it's as coherent as one of Starkiller's conspiracy theories. Absolutely no-one has said burning a book is worse than arson and implying that they are is nonsense. Let's get this straight - there is a tactic on the far right that tries to portray white Christians as the victims. You are either promoting that line or have been taken in by it. And just to set the record straight - burning churches is a bad thing. |
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