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Post by cdf on Sept 5, 2023 15:38:57 GMT
A lad on loan to fail, Alfie Devine, been called up from the U20 squad to train with the England 1st team due to Saka and Grealish been injured. The fail fans are having the biggest orgasms imaginable at the moment and its not a pretty sight
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 15:39:33 GMT
The reason he gets extra credit from me is because during the 00s and most of the 10s he was part of some of the worst Liverpool teams of their clubs history. Yet he still scored well over 100 league goals, won a champions league, multiple FA cups, league cups, I think uefa Cup as well??? I agree with the tactical brain side of his game, in comparison to Scholes he was nowhere near. But as a box to boxer - his physicality, aggression, shots from distance, long range passing - whilst playing in an often failed team against some of the best players in prem history was sensational. I think Bellingham has plenty still to achieve over a prolonged period before he can be compared. Agreed. Steven Gerrard was far from overrated, he was a fucking brilliant central midfielder and one of the best this country has ever produced of his type. He and the rest of his England team mates over their time with the national side completely underachievered, but that doesn't take away what he did for his club side, or alter the fact that he was superb. He was a brilliant central midfielder when he had someone with a brain to do his thinking for him or cover for his going here, there and everywhere. When he didn't, he wasn't.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 15:46:37 GMT
Agreed. Steven Gerrard was far from overrated, he was a fucking brilliant central midfielder and one of the best this country has ever produced of his type. He and the rest of his England team mates over their time with the national side completely underachievered, but that doesn't take away what he did for his club side, or alter the fact that he was superb. He was a brilliant central midfielder when he had someone with a brain to do his thinking for him or cover for his going here, there and everywhere. When he didn't, he wasn't. In fact Rafa put him wide right at times. He was good alongside Alonso who was definitely the brains of the outfit.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 15:49:10 GMT
He was a brilliant central midfielder when he had someone with a brain to do his thinking for him or cover for his going here, there and everywhere. When he didn't, he wasn't. In fact Rafa put him wide right at times. He was good alongside Alonso who was definitely the brains of the outfit. Yep, and Hamann before that. Gerrard gets all the credit for that Champions League win but the comeback doesn't happen without Benitez putting Hamann on to get a foot on the ball and calm things down.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 15:52:45 GMT
Agreed. Steven Gerrard was far from overrated, he was a fucking brilliant central midfielder and one of the best this country has ever produced of his type. He and the rest of his England team mates over their time with the national side completely underachievered, but that doesn't take away what he did for his club side, or alter the fact that he was superb. He was a brilliant central midfielder when he had someone with a brain to do his thinking for him or cover for his going here, there and everywhere. When he didn't, he wasn't. The defensive midfielder that you have championed for years on here, do you mean that kind of player? I get you weren't his biggest fan, but it takes all sorts of players to make a successful midfield and for 12 years or more, he drove several fairly average (for their standards) Liverpool teams to trophies that they simply wouldn't have won without him. He is one of the all-time greats to Liverpool fans, and considering the success and players they have had over the years, he simply cannot go down as anything other than a brilliant footballer.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 16:08:07 GMT
He was a brilliant central midfielder when he had someone with a brain to do his thinking for him or cover for his going here, there and everywhere. When he didn't, he wasn't. The defensive midfielder that you have championed for years on here, do you mean that kind of player? I get you weren't his biggest fan, but it takes all sorts of players to make a successful midfield and for 12 years or more, he drove several fairly average (for their standards) Liverpool teams to trophies that they simply wouldn't have won without him. He is one of the all-time greats to Liverpool fans, and considering the success and players they have had over the years, he simply cannot go down as anything other than a brilliant footballer. Not your clogging type of stopper so much as someone who could sit deep and read the game and cover for him as well as ping it about. Hamann, Alonso, even Lucas helped that and without that kind of player Gerrard's weaknesses were exposed - as they often were for England, where he was generally far less influential. He was a terrific, exciting Premier League player and he suited the blood and thunder and pace of that league down to the ground but imo he was some way off the best European and South American midfielders of the time even during his peak years and I don't know entirely if I agree that they wouldn't have won those trophies without him - if anything with the players they had they should've won more than they did.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 5, 2023 16:12:24 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime.
Seaman
Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole
Scholes Lampard
Beckham Gazza Sterling
Shearer
There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90?
Be interesting to see what the other generations response is.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 5, 2023 17:42:03 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime. Seaman Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole Scholes Lampard Beckham Gazza Sterling Shearer There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90? Be interesting to see what the other generations response is. No Rooney?
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Post by lordb on Sept 5, 2023 17:54:38 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime. Seaman Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole Scholes Lampard Beckham Gazza Sterling Shearer There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90? Be interesting to see what the other generations response is. When are you starting from, 1990?
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 5, 2023 17:57:35 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime. Seaman Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole Scholes Lampard Beckham Gazza Sterling Shearer There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90? Be interesting to see what the other generations response is. When are you starting from, 1990? Post Italia 90
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 5, 2023 18:31:29 GMT
The first tournament I remember watching is Euro 96, but I was only 9 years old thenโฆ
GK Pickford - though I can understand others picking Seaman
LB Cole - absolutely no question here CB Campbell - a bit of a knob now but was good for England CB Terry - I know Iโm probably on my own saying this but Ferdinand is vastly overrated RB Neville - because of the Beckham choice
CM Rice CM Bellingham - these two are already the best CM pairing
LW Sterling - underrated by many AM Lampard - I want to say Gazza but given my age I canโt quite justify it RM Beckham - seemed to drag us through some games
ST Kane - Rooney never really did it on the big stage
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 5, 2023 18:32:48 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime. Seaman Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole Scholes Lampard Beckham Gazza Sterling Shearer There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90? Be interesting to see what the other generations response is. When are you starting from, 1990? For me around then yeah, I was born in the 80s and as I said I only wanted to include players I'd seen live.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 5, 2023 18:34:54 GMT
While we are comparing England players from different eras, what would everyone's cross era England XI be? I'm going to limit mine to players I actually watched live in my lifetime. Seaman Walker Ferdinand Adams Cole Scholes Lampard Beckham Gazza Sterling Shearer There is a certain amount of Euro 96 nostalgia in there and I'm not quite suren if I remember Italia 90 while it was happening or just from the VHS that I religiously watched growing up. So I've not factored that in. Beckham has been shoehorned in cos it felt odd to leave him out. Gerrard unlucky to be left out. I fully anticipate Saka and Bellingham breaking into this team in 4 years! Have I missed anyone obvious from post Italia 90? Be interesting to see what the other generations response is. No Rooney? I couldn't fit him mate sorry. I prefer Shearer. Again this might be nostalgia speaking.
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Post by lordb on Sept 5, 2023 18:41:57 GMT
When are you starting from, 1990? Post Italia 90 Has to be Seaman never thought he was absolutely top drawer but he was good Shilton was better but should have stopped after Euro 88 Couple of players is toss of a coin, Kane or Shearer? Ashley Cole is a certain pick Think Bellingham might have to get in
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 5, 2023 21:16:39 GMT
ST Kane - Rooney never really did it on the big stage I reckon if Rooney doesnโt get injured against Portugal at Euro 2004 we win that. Interesting what happens in 2006 if he doesnโt get the red card against Portugal. France probably would have had enough but for one fine summer Owen Hargreaves was sensational. Iโd be tempted to have Rooney as the Second Striker/Attacking Midfielder but not sure if it would work with Kane.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 5, 2023 21:25:55 GMT
Has to be Seaman never thought he was absolutely top drawer but he was good Shilton was better but should have stopped after Euro 88 Couple of players is toss of a coin, Kane or Shearer? Ashley Cole is a certain pick Think Bellingham might have to get in For me: GK - Seaman - I donโt mind Pickford but heโs always got a mistake in him LB - Ashley Cole - arguably a contender to get in all time England 11. Luke Shaw couldโve been a challenger, the 17 year old Shaw had a fantastic game down Stoke for Soton and despite making at the top I canโt help but feel he couldโve been even better. CBs - Campbell and Ferdinand - Campbell was a beast for a few years and Rioโs pace edges it over Terry & Adams RB - Walker - over Gary Neville Midfield is the challenge. This current crop might not be seen as the best but theyโve all got something about them. I really like Bellingham and Rice. Grealish causes genuine problems, teams double up on which creates opportunities. Saka looks like heโs added goals to his game now. Foden has the world at his feet. But if you look at the older players then they all had amazing careers. On that basis Iโll go: RM - Beckham CM - Scholes and Gerrard LM - Sterling (very attacking left mid) SS/AM - Rooney CF - Kane
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 5, 2023 22:01:19 GMT
ST Kane - Rooney never really did it on the big stage I reckon if Rooney doesnโt get injured against Portugal at Euro 2004 we win that. Interesting what happens in 2006 if he doesnโt get the red card against Portugal. France probably would have had enough but for one fine summer Owen Hargreaves was sensational. Iโd be tempted to have Rooney as the Second Striker/Attacking Midfielder but not sure if it would work with Kane. Maybe so. To be honest I don't think Rooney ever got any better for England beyond his first tournament. Yes he scored plenty of goals, but so should any England forward against some of the rubbish we play in the qualifiers. He goes up front with Kane in the Mike Bassett 44fn2 though.
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 5, 2023 22:09:09 GMT
The first tournament I remember watching is Euro 96, but I was only 9 years old thenโฆ GK Pickford - though I can understand others picking Seaman LB Cole - absolutely no question here CB Campbell - a bit of a knob now but was good for England CB Terry - I know Iโm probably on my own saying this but Ferdinand is vastly overrated RB Neville - because of the Beckham choice CM Rice CM Bellingham - these two are already the best CM pairing LW Sterling - underrated by many AM Lampard - I want to say Gazza but given my age I canโt quite justify it RM Beckham - seemed to drag us through some games ST Kane - Rooney never really did it on the big stage I think that this is pretty fair. However, I wouldnโt have Beckham in there. Heโs the best RM weโve made but he wasnโt a RW in the type of formation you are suggesting. Oh and David Seaman instead of Pickford. Iโd almost rather have Robinson than Pickford ๐ (almost).
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 5, 2023 23:04:57 GMT
Seaman
Walker Adams Ferdinand Cole
Beckham Scholes Gascoigne Barnes
Owen Kane
No Shearer, no Rooney, no Gerrard, no Lampard, no Bellingham and loads more but I think that's the best balance of players we've had at their height since 1990. You're not winning anything without pace and a lot of those teams I've seen previously posted look pretty pedestrian to me. Walker and Owen are obviously both electric and Cole and Barnes are decent but beyond that my team is struggling too.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 5, 2023 23:11:29 GMT
The reason he gets extra credit from me is because during the 00s and most of the 10s he was part of some of the worst Liverpool teams of their clubs history. Yet he still scored well over 100 league goals, won a champions league, multiple FA cups, league cups, I think uefa Cup as well??? I agree with the tactical brain side of his game, in comparison to Scholes he was nowhere near. But as a box to boxer - his physicality, aggression, shots from distance, long range passing - whilst playing in an often failed team against some of the best players in prem history was sensational. I think Bellingham has plenty still to achieve over a prolonged period before he can be compared. Agreed. Steven Gerrard was far from overrated, he was a fucking brilliant central midfielder and one of the best this country has ever produced of his type. He and the rest of his England team mates over their time with the national side completely underachievered, but that doesn't take away what he did for his club side, or alter the fact that he was superb. Scholes and Lampard were better though. And it should have been them two and a DM or one of them and a DM before Gerrard got a look in.
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Post by mickstupp on Sept 5, 2023 23:42:46 GMT
Seaman
Walker Ferdinand Terry Cole
Robson Gascoigne Scholes
Waddle Lineker Beckham
Subs:
Shilton, Wright, Pearce, Gerrard, Kane, Rooney, Shearer.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 6, 2023 3:39:56 GMT
If Gerrard had moved overseas at 23 years old he'd have become a global all time great. As skilful and talented as he undoubtedly was, at times, insisting on covering every blade of grass and being in the middle of everything is actually a form of indiscipline. His overbearing presence also seemed to intimidate some younger Liverpool players.He was a fantastic player but channelling all that energy more productively would've made him even better.
The current England players, especially the young uns coming through are the best England have had in donkeys years. Bellingham can become the best player in the world. Saka is developing an irresistible ruthless streak and Phil is testament to the brilliance of Guardiola. Harry still has a couple of tournaments left in him too.
When it comes to the England team my feet are well and truly firmly on the ground. I've spent 37 years rolling my eyes when mardarses go on about the hand of God.... when in truth we'd hardly got out of our own half and by then should've had at least one red card for the violence inflicted on the diminutive genius. I laughed in the face of those who seemed to think we'd have at least reached the final if Beckham hadn't seen red in 1998. Etc. But the current team is capable of competing for trophies. The monkey to get off our back is winning a knock-out game against a contender for the trophy. And this lot have the ability to beat most and compete with the best.
And if we lose to Ukraine on Sunday I expect this post to be brought up and thrown in my face. In fact, I'll do it myself ๐
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 6, 2023 5:12:29 GMT
If Gerrard had moved overseas at 23 years old he'd have become a global all time great. As skilful and talented as he undoubtedly was, at times, insisting on covering every blade of grass and being in the middle of everything is actually a form of indiscipline. His overbearing presence also seemed to intimidate some younger Liverpool players.He was a fantastic player but channelling all that energy more productively would've made him even better. The current England players, especially the young uns coming through are the best England have had in donkeys years. Bellingham can become the best player in the world. Saka is developing an irresistible ruthless streak and Phil is testament to the brilliance of Guardiola. Harry still has a couple of tournaments left in him too. When it comes to the England team my feet are well and truly firmly on the ground. I've spent 37 years rolling my eyes when mardarses go on about the hand of God.... when in truth we'd hardly got out of our own half and by then should've had at least one red card for the violence inflicted on the diminutive genius. I laughed in the face of those who seemed to think we'd have at least reached the final if Beckham hadn't seen red in 1998. Etc. But the current team is capable of competing for trophies. The monkey to get off our back is winning a knock-out game against a contender for the trophy. And this lot have the ability to beat most and compete with the best. And if we lose to Ukraine on Sunday I expect this post to be brought up and thrown in my face. In fact, I'll do it myself ๐ Good post. France 98 - Where do you have us if Campbell's goal stands and we get through? Beat The Dutch but knocked out in the semis by Brazil? For me the what ifs of that tournament still hurt to this day. We had a good team and a good manager.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2023 6:24:08 GMT
If Gerrard had moved overseas at 23 years old he'd have become a global all time great. As skilful and talented as he undoubtedly was, at times, insisting on covering every blade of grass and being in the middle of everything is actually a form of indiscipline. His overbearing presence also seemed to intimidate some younger Liverpool players.He was a fantastic player but channelling all that energy more productively would've made him even better. The current England players, especially the young uns coming through are the best England have had in donkeys years. Bellingham can become the best player in the world. Saka is developing an irresistible ruthless streak and Phil is testament to the brilliance of Guardiola. Harry still has a couple of tournaments left in him too. When it comes to the England team my feet are well and truly firmly on the ground. I've spent 37 years rolling my eyes when mardarses go on about the hand of God.... when in truth we'd hardly got out of our own half and by then should've had at least one red card for the violence inflicted on the diminutive genius. I laughed in the face of those who seemed to think we'd have at least reached the final if Beckham hadn't seen red in 1998. Etc. But the current team is capable of competing for trophies. The monkey to get off our back is winning a knock-out game against a contender for the trophy. And this lot have the ability to beat most and compete with the best. And if we lose to Ukraine on Sunday I expect this post to be brought up and thrown in my face. In fact, I'll do it myself ๐ Good post. France 98 - Where do you have us if Campbell's goal stands and we get through? Beat The Dutch but knocked out in the semis by Brazil? For me the what ifs of that tournament still hurt to this day. We had a good team and a good manager. That Dutch team was fantastic, donโt think we get past them.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Sept 6, 2023 6:34:49 GMT
If Gerrard had moved overseas at 23 years old he'd have become a global all time great. As skilful and talented as he undoubtedly was, at times, insisting on covering every blade of grass and being in the middle of everything is actually a form of indiscipline. His overbearing presence also seemed to intimidate some younger Liverpool players.He was a fantastic player but channelling all that energy more productively would've made him even better. The current England players, especially the young uns coming through are the best England have had in donkeys years. Bellingham can become the best player in the world. Saka is developing an irresistible ruthless streak and Phil is testament to the brilliance of Guardiola. Harry still has a couple of tournaments left in him too. When it comes to the England team my feet are well and truly firmly on the ground. I've spent 37 years rolling my eyes when mardarses go on about the hand of God.... when in truth we'd hardly got out of our own half and by then should've had at least one red card for the violence inflicted on the diminutive genius. I laughed in the face of those who seemed to think we'd have at least reached the final if Beckham hadn't seen red in 1998. Etc. But the current team is capable of competing for trophies. The monkey to get off our back is winning a knock-out game against a contender for the trophy. And this lot have the ability to beat most and compete with the best. And if we lose to Ukraine on Sunday I expect this post to be brought up and thrown in my face. In fact, I'll do it myself ๐ Good post. France 98 - Where do you have us if Campbell's goal stands and we get through? Beat The Dutch but knocked out in the semis by Brazil? For me the what ifs of that tournament still hurt to this day. We had a good team and a good manager. For me the one that hurts the most is Euro 2004. 18 year old Rooney really was world beating that tournament and it was awful bad luck when he got injured. Also Campbell had a perfectly good goal ruled out in extra time (which would have been the winner because golden goal was still going then) for no reason which made the injustice even worse. We had a really good team, especially with a fit Rooney. And a lot of the traditional powerhouses were weaker than usual that year as shown by Greece going on to win. Had we kept Rooney fit and Campbell's goal stood to let us best Portugal, I think we'd have won the tournament. Even without fit Rooney in the semi finals I think we'd have still stood a chance.
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Post by noustie on Sept 6, 2023 6:36:13 GMT
I always thought England criminally underutilised Michael Carrick. Personally I'd have started with him as the brains of the operation in a 3 with the others competing for the other 2 slots. Interesting quotes on him here and can read between the lines of Xavi Alonso's comment quite easily: www.football365.com/news/hes-a-piano-16-of-the-best-quotes-on-michael-carrickImagine if he was about now with him, Bellingham, Rice - that's obscene!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2023 7:01:26 GMT
Good post. France 98 - Where do you have us if Campbell's goal stands and we get through? Beat The Dutch but knocked out in the semis by Brazil? For me the what ifs of that tournament still hurt to this day. We had a good team and a good manager. For me the one that hurts the most is Euro 2004. 18 year old Rooney really was world beating that tournament and it was awful bad luck when he got injured. Also Campbell had a perfectly good goal ruled out in extra time (which would have been the winner because golden goal was still going then) for no reason which made the injustice even worse. We had a really good team, especially with a fit Rooney. And a lot of the traditional powerhouses were weaker than usual that year as shown by Greece going on to win. Had we kept Rooney fit and Campbell's goal stood to let us best Portugal, I think we'd have won the tournament. Even without fit Rooney in the semi finals I think we'd have still stood a chance. Shame we blew it against France in that first game as we'd been brilliant and it would've given us control of the group. I quite liked Sven but he made some really poor decisions in that tournament.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 6, 2023 7:08:37 GMT
Good post. France 98 - Where do you have us if Campbell's goal stands and we get through? Beat The Dutch but knocked out in the semis by Brazil? For me the what ifs of that tournament still hurt to this day. We had a good team and a good manager. That Dutch team was fantastic, donโt think we get past them. Just looked up the 11 they put out in the QF and it does look rather intimidating. I still think we would have given them a game though, only 2 years on from the trouncing.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2023 7:12:54 GMT
That Dutch team was fantastic, donโt think we get past them. Just looked up the 11 they put out in the QF and it does look rather intimidating. I still think we would have given them a game though, only 2 years on from the trouncing. Would've been a proper ding dong of a game definitely. We really should've won our group, that would've given us a slightly easier side of the draw, though obviously Croatia had a very strong team as well. Think we were complacent going into the Romania game.
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Post by noustie on Sept 6, 2023 7:41:43 GMT
Italia 90 was the start for me really - Scotland XI for comparison:
GK Craig Gordon
RB Steve Nicol CB Colin Hendry CB Richard Gough LB Andy Robertson
CM Paul Lambert CM Billy Gilmour CM Gary McAllister
LW John Collins RW Strachan
CF Kevin Gallacher
Subs
Leighton Hickey Tierney Ferguson McGinn Darren Fletcher Steven Fletcher Kenny Miller
Considering 20 years of absolute pish it's not a bad side. Steven Fletcher would be great in the current team but was absolutely wasted 50 yards up top on his own.
Big Dunc would piss in but can't really pick him given he never played due to falling out with SFA.
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