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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 4, 2023 22:41:33 GMT
Do you mean that or is it force of habit? Remind me when they last won a competition! That's not a valid way to assess international teams. The magnificent Brazil team of the early 80s didn't lift a major trophy. Neither did Netherlands 20 years later. Vicini"s Italy were a fantastic side but didn't win a trophy. It's invalid. Null and void.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2023 22:42:19 GMT
Is the bad luck charm still captain?
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 5, 2023 8:23:46 GMT
Is the bad luck charm still captain? Zzźzzzzzzzz......
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Sept 5, 2023 8:47:39 GMT
Too many bench warmers (at club level) in that squad. Stupidity to have Phillips in there ahead of James Ward Prowse.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 8:53:41 GMT
Jude Bellingham disagrees with this. Lol he's the best of the current crop. If he googled lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Gascoigne he wouldn't disagree. He's better at a comparable age than all of those bar Gazza. He'll go on to be one of Englands best ever footballers, far better than Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 11:03:14 GMT
Lol he's the best of the current crop. If he googled lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Gascoigne he wouldn't disagree. He's better at a comparable age than all of those bar Gazza. He'll go on to be one of Englands best ever footballers, far better than Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. At his age Gerrard was fantastic in a much tougher league, a standard of league that will never be equalled. As were lampard, Scholes and Gazza. I hope he does go on to be one of England's best ever footballers. The fact is the standard of international football is piss compared to the 90s, 00s and 10s. Statistically he will befiefit from this because the opposition just aren't the same.
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Post by jordan2009 on Sept 5, 2023 11:05:19 GMT
The good news is he's apparently leaving after the Euros. I'm not his biggest fan, I think he's tactically poor and too bloody PC for my liking. The question is who's next? The papers(one was on about Pep) would he leave City for the England job? Is it a full time job these days? Could someone do a club job and the national team job?
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 5, 2023 11:17:54 GMT
The good news is he's apparently leaving after the Euros. I'm not his biggest fan, I think he's tactically poor and too bloody PC for my liking. The question is who's next? The papers(one was on about Pep) would he leave City for the England job? Is it a full time job these days? Could someone do a club job and the national team job? Don't like the idea of someone part timing the england job tbh.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 11:21:39 GMT
He's better at a comparable age than all of those bar Gazza. He'll go on to be one of Englands best ever footballers, far better than Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. At his age Gerrard was fantastic in a much tougher league, a standard of league that will never be equalled. As were lampard, Scholes and Gazza. I hope he does go on to be one of England's best ever footballers. The fact is the standard of international football is piss compared to the 90s, 00s and 10s. Statistically he will befiefit from this because the opposition just aren't the same. He's a more complete midfielder than Gerrard ever was already imo. Most overrated English footballer of his generation.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 5, 2023 11:23:42 GMT
The good news is he's apparently leaving after the Euros. I'm not his biggest fan, I think he's tactically poor and too bloody PC for my liking. The question is who's next? The papers(one was on about Pep) would he leave City for the England job? Is it a full time job these days? Could someone do a club job and the national team job? Don't like the idea of someone part timing the england job tbh. If they are sticking to the course, does Carsley get it? Could do a lot worse.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Sept 5, 2023 11:26:14 GMT
Don't like the idea of someone part timing the england job tbh. If they are sticking to the course, does Carsley get it? Could do a lot worse. The only stand out candidate for me would be Eddie Howe but I think he'd want to finish what he's started at Newcastle.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 11:26:52 GMT
If they are sticking to the course, does Carsley get it? Could do a lot worse. The only stand out candidate for me would be Eddie Howe but I think he'd want to finish what he's started at Newcastle. Potter maybe?
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Sept 5, 2023 11:28:55 GMT
The only stand out candidate for me would be Eddie Howe but I think he'd want to finish what he's started at Newcastle. Potter maybe? I'm sure the FA would look at him but has he done enough?
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 11:29:45 GMT
He's better at a comparable age than all of those bar Gazza. He'll go on to be one of Englands best ever footballers, far better than Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. At his age Gerrard was fantastic in a much tougher league, a standard of league that will never be equalled. As were lampard, Scholes and Gazza. I hope he does go on to be one of England's best ever footballers. The fact is the standard of international football is piss compared to the 90s, 00s and 10s. Statistically he will befiefit from this because the opposition just aren't the same. Is it? How? Bellingham can do all that Gerrard did plus he's technically better.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 11:32:13 GMT
FA state Pep is their preferred choice to take over when Southgate leaves.
In other news, grass is green.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 11:37:22 GMT
I'm sure the FA would look at him but has he done enough? Depends what they're looking for I guess. His work with Ostersunds and Brighton is leagues and leagues above anything Southgate has achieved at club level but that's no guarantee of success at international level.
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Post by jordan2009 on Sept 5, 2023 11:47:41 GMT
I'm sure the FA would look at him but has he done enough? Depends what they're looking for I guess. His work with Ostersunds and Brighton is leagues and leagues above anything Southgate has achieved at club level but that's no guarantee of success at international level. I think we saw in the Euro final against Italy that we need someone right at the top of their game tactically. Southgate got out thought by Manchini. Is/as Potter done enough and got enough experience push England too that next level. I'm not convinced Howe has got what it takes push Newcastle too that next level. I remember some pundit/ex player saying Howe would be the first appointment of the Newcastle plan then they would end up bringing someone in who will take them too the next level. Suppose only time will tell Carsley has done a fantastic job though with the u21s
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 11:50:22 GMT
Depends what they're looking for I guess. His work with Ostersunds and Brighton is leagues and leagues above anything Southgate has achieved at club level but that's no guarantee of success at international level. I think we saw in the Euro final against Italy that we need someone right at the top of their game tactically. Southgate got out thought by Manchini. Is/as Potter done enough and got enough experience push England too that next level. I'm not convinced Howe has got what it takes push Newcastle too that next level. I remember some pundit/ex player saying Howe would be the first appointment of the Newcastle plan then they would end up bringing someone in who will take them too the next level. Suppose only time will tell Carsley has done a fantastic job though with the u21s How did he? We lost on penalties.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2023 11:51:18 GMT
I think we saw in the Euro final against Italy that we need someone right at the top of their game tactically. Southgate got out thought by Manchini. Is/as Potter done enough and got enough experience push England too that next level. I'm not convinced Howe has got what it takes push Newcastle too that next level. I remember some pundit/ex player saying Howe would be the first appointment of the Newcastle plan then they would end up bringing someone in who will take them too the next level. Suppose only time will tell Carsley has done a fantastic job though with the u21s How did he? We lost on penalties. Two evenly matched teams who had good and bad spells within the game.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 12:10:07 GMT
Depends what they're looking for I guess. His work with Ostersunds and Brighton is leagues and leagues above anything Southgate has achieved at club level but that's no guarantee of success at international level. I think we saw in the Euro final against Italy that we need someone right at the top of their game tactically. Southgate got out thought by Manchini. Is/as Potter done enough and got enough experience push England too that next level. I'm not convinced Howe has got what it takes push Newcastle too that next level. I remember some pundit/ex player saying Howe would be the first appointment of the Newcastle plan then they would end up bringing someone in who will take them too the next level. Suppose only time will tell Carsley has done a fantastic job though with the u21s Agree that Southgate's caution can be his undoing at times and it's frustrated me before as well, but don't think the team spirit and unity he's brought to a historically fractious squad should be underestimated - that's been hugely important to this set up and we should be careful not to lose that.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 12:15:25 GMT
At his age Gerrard was fantastic in a much tougher league, a standard of league that will never be equalled. As were lampard, Scholes and Gazza. I hope he does go on to be one of England's best ever footballers. The fact is the standard of international football is piss compared to the 90s, 00s and 10s. Statistically he will befiefit from this because the opposition just aren't the same. He's a more complete midfielder than Gerrard ever was already imo. Most overrated English footballer of his generation. Gerrard, who I personally rank as third in the scholes/lampard/Gerrard debate, is considered by many to be one of the most complete midfielders of all time. There's a chance Bellingham can surpass him, but he has a long way to go. Although my personal taste prefers Scholes and lampard I don't consider Gerrard overrated, he's rated as one of the best midfielders in premier league history and that's exactly what he is.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 12:16:48 GMT
At his age Gerrard was fantastic in a much tougher league, a standard of league that will never be equalled. As were lampard, Scholes and Gazza. I hope he does go on to be one of England's best ever footballers. The fact is the standard of international football is piss compared to the 90s, 00s and 10s. Statistically he will befiefit from this because the opposition just aren't the same. Is it? How? Bellingham can do all that Gerrard did plus he's technically better. The players aren't as good. By lightyears.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2023 12:18:26 GMT
He's a more complete midfielder than Gerrard ever was already imo. Most overrated English footballer of his generation. Gerrard, who I personally rank as third in the scholes/lampard/Gerrard debate, is considered by many to be one of the most complete midfielders of all time. There's a chance Bellingham can surpass him, but he has a long way to go. Although my personal taste prefers Scholes and lampard I don't consider Gerrard overrated, he's rated as one of the best midfielders in premier league history and that's exactly what he is. Definitely one of the best players in the Premier League for a long time but rarely if ever world class in my opinion. His best runs of form came when he had a brain behind him to do his thinking and plug the gaps while he went gallivanting with his Roy of the Rovers act. When there wasn't someone doing that the results could be disastrous as he never developed the tactical brain the very best midfielders had.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 5, 2023 12:24:40 GMT
Is it? How? Bellingham can do all that Gerrard did plus he's technically better. The players aren't as good. By lightyears. Rubbish
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 12:32:17 GMT
Gerrard, who I personally rank as third in the scholes/lampard/Gerrard debate, is considered by many to be one of the most complete midfielders of all time. There's a chance Bellingham can surpass him, but he has a long way to go. Although my personal taste prefers Scholes and lampard I don't consider Gerrard overrated, he's rated as one of the best midfielders in premier league history and that's exactly what he is. Definitely one of the best players in the Premier League for a long time but rarely if ever world class in my opinion. His best runs of form came when he had a brain behind him to do his thinking and plug the gaps while he went gallivanting with his Roy of the Rovers act. When there wasn't someone doing that the results could be disastrous as he never developed the tactical brain the very best midfielders had. The reason he gets extra credit from me is because during the 00s and most of the 10s he was part of some of the worst Liverpool teams of their clubs history. Yet he still scored well over 100 league goals, won a champions league, multiple FA cups, league cups, I think uefa Cup as well??? I agree with the tactical brain side of his game, in comparison to Scholes he was nowhere near. But as a box to boxer - his physicality, aggression, shots from distance, long range passing - whilst playing in an often failed team against some of the best players in prem history was sensational. I think Bellingham has plenty still to achieve over a prolonged period before he can be compared.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 12:49:42 GMT
The players aren't as good. By lightyears. Rubbish Take Brazil, England, Germany, Italy, France and Holland for examples and compare their current squads to their squads between 2000 and 2010. You're probably looking at only mbappe and Neymar who would make it in the starting 11 of those teams back then. Kane and Bellingham you could make cases for, but Shearer and the legendary centre mids we had at the time would likely have kept them out. Our own left sided problem back then could be filled by someone no doubt. There's a case for Kyle walker over neville also. Overall the standard of football at the tournaments now is lower than its ever been. And the qualifiers are at times unwatchable the competition is so weak.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 13:00:44 GMT
I'm sure the FA would look at him but has he done enough? Like Southgate did before he got the job? Laugh out loud.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 5, 2023 13:24:22 GMT
Take Brazil, England, Germany, Italy, France and Holland for examples and compare their current squads to their squads between 2000 and 2010. You're probably looking at only mbappe and Neymar who would make it in the starting 11 of those teams back then. Kane and Bellingham you could make cases for, but Shearer and the legendary centre mids we had at the time would likely have kept them out. Our own left sided problem back then could be filled by someone no doubt. There's a case for Kyle walker over neville also. Overall the standard of football at the tournaments now is lower than its ever been. And the qualifiers are at times unwatchable the competition is so weak. Google 'Gary Neville England Own Goal' to see the sort of standard we were playing at in 2007! In all seriousness though, I think the qualifiers have always been dog shit from a quality/competitiveness perspective.
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Post by st3mark on Sept 5, 2023 14:56:09 GMT
Take Brazil, England, Germany, Italy, France and Holland for examples and compare their current squads to their squads between 2000 and 2010. You're probably looking at only mbappe and Neymar who would make it in the starting 11 of those teams back then. Kane and Bellingham you could make cases for, but Shearer and the legendary centre mids we had at the time would likely have kept them out. Our own left sided problem back then could be filled by someone no doubt. There's a case for Kyle walker over neville also. Overall the standard of football at the tournaments now is lower than its ever been. And the qualifiers are at times unwatchable the competition is so weak. Google 'Gary Neville England Own Goal' to see the sort of standard we were playing at in 2007! In all seriousness though, I think the qualifiers have always been dog shit from a quality/competitiveness perspective. Lol, what a shite goal that was, but the keeper cant get away with that. I did mention Neville as a weak point but let's face it, he's likely one of the most decorated English players of the last 50 years isn't he? As will Walker be by now to be fair, albeit for the FFP swindlers. The qualifiers have mostly always been shite, but they are worse now then ever.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 15:06:54 GMT
Definitely one of the best players in the Premier League for a long time but rarely if ever world class in my opinion. His best runs of form came when he had a brain behind him to do his thinking and plug the gaps while he went gallivanting with his Roy of the Rovers act. When there wasn't someone doing that the results could be disastrous as he never developed the tactical brain the very best midfielders had. The reason he gets extra credit from me is because during the 00s and most of the 10s he was part of some of the worst Liverpool teams of their clubs history. Yet he still scored well over 100 league goals, won a champions league, multiple FA cups, league cups, I think uefa Cup as well??? I agree with the tactical brain side of his game, in comparison to Scholes he was nowhere near. But as a box to boxer - his physicality, aggression, shots from distance, long range passing - whilst playing in an often failed team against some of the best players in prem history was sensational. I think Bellingham has plenty still to achieve over a prolonged period before he can be compared. Agreed. Steven Gerrard was far from overrated, he was a fucking brilliant central midfielder and one of the best this country has ever produced of his type. He and the rest of his England team mates over their time with the national side completely underachievered, but that doesn't take away what he did for his club side, or alter the fact that he was superb.
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