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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 10, 2024 17:20:17 GMT
It's sad though, that really, we have no way of safely and independently verifying what's real and what isn't. Even the Fact checking websites are now politicised and untrustworthy. And Musk is about to become a dangerously powerful Trump aide! You're absolutely right, it's an utter minefield out there and we all have to be more vigilant than ever, there is zero doubt that it is only going to get worse. EDIT: Literally just stumbled on this and here we have it, Orwell must be turning in his grave ... Sounds like anyone will be able to say anything apart from point out that Trump is a lying cunt. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 10, 2024 17:27:24 GMT
As the truth becomes more obvious SKY are twisting themselves in knots trying to keep the story alive of the Israeli football fans being the victims in this….. But maybe it's you that's wrong? In this era of Twitter videos, distorted mainstream news, AI fake news, it's very easy to be hoodwinked. You seem infuriated that the news aren't reporting the story to your preferred narrative. During the riots, I saw plenty of things that were conveniently not reported. It's frustrating when it feels like you're screaming in a vacuum right? We're living in the disinformation age. You can only go off the evidence in front of you and make your best judgement. It seems fairly obvious to me that the travelling Israeli fans were singing and chanting about dead Gaza children, took offence to residents hanging Palestinians flags from their properties and made a beeline for local Arab taxi drivers amongst others. The local population were intent on getting their revenge and the rest is history. What conclusion you come to is entirely up to you, not sure how you think I’m infuriated from my post but hey ho…… |
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Israel
Nov 10, 2024 19:17:43 GMT
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Gawa likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 10, 2024 19:17:43 GMT
Absolutely horrifying, stay vigilant folks ...
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Israel
Nov 10, 2024 19:27:14 GMT
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Gawa likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 10, 2024 19:27:14 GMT
Sky News haven’t deleted this though. And that was posted before the one taken down too. What don't they want people to see. Hmmmm ... |
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Israel
Nov 10, 2024 21:39:33 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 10, 2024 21:39:33 GMT
The BBC caught flat out lying.
The people in the video are Maccabi Tel Aviv hooligans.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 10, 2024 22:27:23 GMT
The BBC caught flat out lying. The people in the video are Maccabi Tel Aviv hooligans. Are you absolutely certain of that? |
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Israel
Nov 10, 2024 22:31:00 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 10, 2024 22:31:00 GMT
The BBC caught flat out lying. The people in the video are Maccabi Tel Aviv hooligans. Are you absolutely certain of that? Yes. Why, what are you implying? |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 0:28:35 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 11, 2024 0:28:35 GMT
The BBC caught flat out lying. The people in the video are Maccabi Tel Aviv hooligans. Are you absolutely certain of that? If an Israeli told me it was dark at night I’d have to go outside to check. The institutionalised racism that Israelis grow up in distorts their reality; they believe they have the absolute right to treat others with contempt, violence and hate, whilst still deserving to be treated themselves as victims of “anti semitism”. Israel continues to commit genocide and our government continues to excuse, appease and facilitate it. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 11, 2024 0:45:12 GMT
Are you absolutely certain of that? If an Israeli told me it was dark at night I’d have to go outside to check. The institutionalised racism that Israelis grow up in distorts their reality; they believe they have the absolute right to treat others with contempt, violence and hate, whilst still deserving to be treated themselves as victims of “anti semitism”. Israel continues to commit genocide and our government continues to excuse, appease and facilitate it. Come on now! You can’t have seriously just castigated every Israeli with one brush because of an agenda intended to demonstrate every Israeli treats others with one brush? |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 10:39:40 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Nov 11, 2024 10:39:40 GMT
One for those subservient to middle east tourists. They'd expect British people not to react to hooligans doing this. If you did they'd call you an antisemite and support the foreign football hooligans.
Does their support for foreigner football hooligans extend to clubs outside Israel? I've never seen such support for hooligans attacking locals until this past week. So is it unique to Israelis?
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 12:13:10 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Nov 11, 2024 12:13:10 GMT
emretezzy so you're telling me if a bunch for foreign football hooligans came to Stoke and started signing stuff like this in the streets. You'd defend them as innocent bystanders and any retaliation as antisemetic. Israelis first, British second.
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 14:53:40 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 11, 2024 14:53:40 GMT
I obviously can't read the actual article itself but the claim in it is extremely interesting ...
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2024 19:31:36 GMT
If an Israeli told me it was dark at night I’d have to go outside to check. The institutionalised racism that Israelis grow up in distorts their reality; they believe they have the absolute right to treat others with contempt, violence and hate, whilst still deserving to be treated themselves as victims of “anti semitism”. Israel continues to commit genocide and our government continues to excuse, appease and facilitate it. Come on now, Metalhead! You can’t have seriously just castigated every Israeli with one brush because of an agenda intended to demonstrate every Israeli treats others with one brush? Wrong person.... (Replying to the other two in a single post, but just thought I'd separate yours lol) |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 19:48:50 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 11, 2024 19:48:50 GMT
Come on now, Metalhead! You can’t have seriously just castigated every Israeli with one brush because of an agenda intended to demonstrate every Israeli treats others with one brush? Wrong person.... (Replying to the other two in a single post, but just thought I'd separate yours lol) Haha - oh yeah! To be honest that Glenn Whelan tackle has me mesmerised on each and all of your posts  |
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2024 19:57:16 GMT
Are you absolutely certain of that? Yes. Why, what are you implying? I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. Are you absolutely certain of that? If an Israeli told me it was dark at night I’d have to go outside to check. The institutionalised racism that Israelis grow up in distorts their reality; they believe they have the absolute right to treat others with contempt, violence and hate, whilst still deserving to be treated themselves as victims of “anti semitism”. Israel continues to commit genocide and our government continues to excuse, appease and facilitate it. I met a couple of Israeli's thanks to the global nature of Software Engineering and I never once got that impression from them. That said, we never discussed Palestine. It just didn't come up. I suspect if we met again, it might but up until recently, I don't think normal Israeli's walked around with flags jerking themselves off to dead Palestinians. Much like the only Russian I know, has never once mentioned Ukraine.... and I've known him for longer than the war has been going on. I think whoever you talk to, there's a victim narrative going on. Both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel believe that the other side are spinning a victim narrative and there's probably some truth to that. It's not enough to have a singular picture of what is actually happening anymore. Now with the Internet and the Instagram, Twitter, Social Media Narrative, it's an incredibly powerful tool to be controlled and that's where the victim narrative is deployed most effectively. Depending which side you align, will very much drive the particular propaganda message you share/align to... One thing is pretty clear: Nuance has been thrown out of the window. Edit: The genocide claim is a really tricky one, in that I'm not convinced it can be verified at this point. Do I think they are committing genocide? Probably. Do I know? Nope and nor do you and none of us will truly know until this war has ended, pretty much the same as WW2. |
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2024 19:58:27 GMT
Wrong person.... (Replying to the other two in a single post, but just thought I'd separate yours lol) Haha - oh yeah! To be honest that Glenn Whelan tackle has me mesmerised on each and all of your posts vs Ashley Young when he was playing for Man Utd and I think we beat them. The Man Utd fans were blarting on Radio 5 live about this disgraceful Whelan tackle. Made it my signature the very same evening. No regrets  |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 20:25:08 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 11, 2024 20:25:08 GMT
Yes. Why, what are you implying? I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. That's what I was getting at when I said that if you have the time and the inclination to cross reference the source, then usually you can get pretty close to the truth. The video that the BBC used, was shot by a local on her phone and one news channel has already had to apologise to her for misrepresenting it as being local Muslims when in fact it was indeed actually Tel Aviv hooligans. Also a young 14 year old YouTuber was live streaming in the vicinity, exactly at the same time the video was shot and HIS footage proves that they were Tel Aviv thugs. That's why I felt confident enough to make the claim that the BBC were lying. |
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2024 20:29:20 GMT
I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. That's what I was getting at when I said that if you have the time and the inclination to cross reference the source, then usually you can get pretty close to the truth. The video that the BBC used, was shot by a local on her phone and one news channel has already had to apologise to her for misrepresenting it as being local Muslims when in fact it was indeed actually Tel Aviv hooligans. Also a young 14 year old YouTuber was live streaming in the vicinity, exactly at the same time the video was shot and HIS footage proves that they were Tel Aviv thugs. That's why I felt confident enough to make the claim that the BBC were lying. Certainly caught them red handed. However that is one version of events right? There's still clear evidence to suggest that Israeli fans were attacked at some point. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 11, 2024 20:30:55 GMT
Yes. Why, what are you implying? I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. If an Israeli told me it was dark at night I’d have to go outside to check. The institutionalised racism that Israelis grow up in distorts their reality; they believe they have the absolute right to treat others with contempt, violence and hate, whilst still deserving to be treated themselves as victims of “anti semitism”. Israel continues to commit genocide and our government continues to excuse, appease and facilitate it. I met a couple of Israeli's thanks to the global nature of Software Engineering and I never once got that impression from them. That said, we never discussed Palestine. It just didn't come up. I suspect if we met again, it might but up until recently, I don't think normal Israeli's walked around with flags jerking themselves off to dead Palestinians. Much like the only Russian I know, has never once mentioned Ukraine.... and I've known him for longer than the war has been going on. I think whoever you talk to, there's a victim narrative going on. Both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel believe that the other side are spinning a victim narrative and there's probably some truth to that. It's not enough to have a singular picture of what is actually happening anymore. Now with the Internet and the Instagram, Twitter, Social Media Narrative, it's an incredibly powerful tool to be controlled and that's where the victim narrative is deployed most effectively. Depending which side you align, will very much drive the particular propaganda message you share/align to... One thing is pretty clear: Nuance has been thrown out of the window. Edit: The genocide claim is a really tricky one, in that I'm not convinced it can be verified at this point. Do I think they are committing genocide? Probably. Do I know? Nope and nor do you and none of us will truly know until this war has ended, pretty much the same as WW2. I’m not suggesting normal Israeli’s do that either. But am I suggesting on the basis that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were. You keep talking about nuance, just constantly both siding a debate isn’t nuance……. |
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2024 20:43:52 GMT
I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. I met a couple of Israeli's thanks to the global nature of Software Engineering and I never once got that impression from them. That said, we never discussed Palestine. It just didn't come up. I suspect if we met again, it might but up until recently, I don't think normal Israeli's walked around with flags jerking themselves off to dead Palestinians. Much like the only Russian I know, has never once mentioned Ukraine.... and I've known him for longer than the war has been going on. I think whoever you talk to, there's a victim narrative going on. Both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel believe that the other side are spinning a victim narrative and there's probably some truth to that. It's not enough to have a singular picture of what is actually happening anymore. Now with the Internet and the Instagram, Twitter, Social Media Narrative, it's an incredibly powerful tool to be controlled and that's where the victim narrative is deployed most effectively. Depending which side you align, will very much drive the particular propaganda message you share/align to... One thing is pretty clear: Nuance has been thrown out of the window. Edit: The genocide claim is a really tricky one, in that I'm not convinced it can be verified at this point. Do I think they are committing genocide? Probably. Do I know? Nope and nor do you and none of us will truly know until this war has ended, pretty much the same as WW2. I’m not suggesting normal Israeli’s do that either. But am I suggesting on the basis that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were. You keep talking about nuance, just constantly both siding a debate isn’t nuance……. I'm not both siding a debate. I simply try to evaluate each story I come across to the best of my ability - rather than just align to a particular side, whichever that is. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 11, 2024 20:51:42 GMT
I'm not implying anything. I'm treating your source with the exact same skepticism that I have to show every piece of fresh information, as we are living in the disinformation age. There is very little verification to Twitter reporting and there's no mainstream outlet reporting it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans). I suspect your information is factually accurate, much like those who reported some rather nefarious activities during the protests by people who weren't right wing... they also went unreported. Like I said, we're living in the disinformation age. It's fucking shit. I met a couple of Israeli's thanks to the global nature of Software Engineering and I never once got that impression from them. That said, we never discussed Palestine. It just didn't come up. I suspect if we met again, it might but up until recently, I don't think normal Israeli's walked around with flags jerking themselves off to dead Palestinians. Much like the only Russian I know, has never once mentioned Ukraine.... and I've known him for longer than the war has been going on. I think whoever you talk to, there's a victim narrative going on. Both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel believe that the other side are spinning a victim narrative and there's probably some truth to that. It's not enough to have a singular picture of what is actually happening anymore. Now with the Internet and the Instagram, Twitter, Social Media Narrative, it's an incredibly powerful tool to be controlled and that's where the victim narrative is deployed most effectively. Depending which side you align, will very much drive the particular propaganda message you share/align to... One thing is pretty clear: Nuance has been thrown out of the window. Edit: The genocide claim is a really tricky one, in that I'm not convinced it can be verified at this point. Do I think they are committing genocide? Probably. Do I know? Nope and nor do you and none of us will truly know until this war has ended, pretty much the same as WW2. I’m not suggesting normal Israeli’s do that either. But am I suggesting on the basis that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were. You keep talking about nuance, just constantly both siding a debate isn’t nuance……. It's a bit strange trying to criticise someone for attempting to be balanced. It's also probably not the greatest move to completely stereotype an entire group of people by suggesting that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were". It's problematic at best. Of course, some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti-Palestinian behaviour, such as chanting anti-Arab slogans and removing Palestinian flags. However, nuance kicks in when it's clear that these actions do not represent all fans of the club. The behaviour of a few individuals should never be used to generalise an entire fan base or, for that matter, any group of people. If that were the case, presumably all Stoke fans would be closeted in the Naughty lot, be generally racist, go around wrecking pubs, and get into fights with opposition fans or random members of the public at every away game. The same principle applies to what's going on in Gaza vis-à-vis Hamas, hostages, and the lack of verifiable information around potential Israeli genocide. One needs to have an understanding of the nuance around Israel in order to have a rounded perspective of the issues surrounding it. People continually castigating entire swathes of people in the interests of making some sort of point against either side and not employing both balance and nuance is part of the problem. Whatever anyone says or thinks, Metalhead is right to some extent - perpetuating a victim complex is a modern day curse. |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 20:53:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 11, 2024 20:53:19 GMT
I’m not suggesting normal Israeli’s do that either. But am I suggesting on the basis that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were. You keep talking about nuance, just constantly both siding a debate isn’t nuance……. It's a bit strange trying to criticise someone for attempting to be balanced. It's also probably not the greatest move to completely stereotype an entire group of people by suggesting that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were" it's problematic at best. Of course, some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti-Palestinian behaviour, such as chanting anti-Arab slogans and removing Palestinian flags. However, nuance kicks in when it's clear that these actions do not represent all fans of the club. The behaviour of a few individuals should never be used to generalise an entire fan base or, for that matter, any group of people. If that were the case, presumably all Stoke fans would be closeted in the Naughty lot, be generally racist, go around wrecking pubs, and get into fights with opposition fans or random members of the public at every away game. The same principle applies to what's going on in Gaza vis-à-vis Hamas, hostages, and the lack of verifiable information around potential Israeli genocide. One needs to have an understanding of the nuance around Israel in order to have a rounded perspective of the issues surrounding it. People continually castigating entire swathes of people in the interests of making some sort of point against either side and not employing both balance and nuance is part of the problem. Whatever anyone says or thinks, Metalhead is right to some extent - perpetuating a victim complex is a modern day curse. You are so right, I like you more every day |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 21:12:01 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 11, 2024 21:12:01 GMT
That's what I was getting at when I said that if you have the time and the inclination to cross reference the source, then usually you can get pretty close to the truth. The video that the BBC used, was shot by a local on her phone and one news channel has already had to apologise to her for misrepresenting it as being local Muslims when in fact it was indeed actually Tel Aviv hooligans. Also a young 14 year old YouTuber was live streaming in the vicinity, exactly at the same time the video was shot and HIS footage proves that they were Tel Aviv thugs. That's why I felt confident enough to make the claim that the BBC were lying. Certainly caught them red handed. However that is one version of events right? There's still clear evidence to suggest that Israeli fans were attacked at some point. No it ISN'T one version of the events at all. I was SPECIFICALLY commenting on the BBC's use of the video. They claimed it was local Muslims in the video. There are two sides to THAT claim. One is true and one isn't. We had been discussing how I thought it was important that Twitter existed, so that we could hold main stream media's feet to the fire when they want to push false narratives down our throats. I believe this example perfectly illustrates the power of social media when it's used responsibly. Whether or not the Tel Aviv fans were later attacked is a separate discussion and as far as I'm aware, nobody on here has even remotely suggested that they weren't. EDIT: Hey up, it looks like I wasn't the only one to spot their lies ... |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 11, 2024 21:51:08 GMT
I’m not suggesting normal Israeli’s do that either. But am I suggesting on the basis that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were. You keep talking about nuance, just constantly both siding a debate isn’t nuance……. It's a bit strange trying to criticise someone for attempting to be balanced. It's also probably not the greatest move to completely stereotype an entire group of people by suggesting that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were". It's problematic at best. Of course, some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti-Palestinian behaviour, such as chanting anti-Arab slogans and removing Palestinian flags. However, nuance kicks in when it's clear that these actions do not represent all fans of the club. The behaviour of a few individuals should never be used to generalise an entire fan base or, for that matter, any group of people. If that were the case, presumably all Stoke fans would be closeted in the Naughty lot, be generally racist, go around wrecking pubs, and get into fights with opposition fans or random members of the public at every away game. The same principle applies to what's going on in Gaza vis-à-vis Hamas, hostages, and the lack of verifiable information around potential Israeli genocide. One needs to have an understanding of the nuance around Israel in order to have a rounded perspective of the issues surrounding it. People continually castigating entire swathes of people in the interests of making some sort of point against either side and not employing both balance and nuance is part of the problem. Whatever anyone says or thinks, Metalhead is right to some extent - perpetuating a victim complex is a modern day curse. How is using the phrase “a sizeable chunk” stereotyping a whole fanbase? Feel free look at how the fans reaction to Mahran Radi and other Arab players at the club, look at the “Macabbi fanatics” chanting death threats in their thousands. And look at the reaction of the fans their own clubs “Give racism the boot” campaign designed to stamp out intolerance on the terraces. And the many many examples of violence from the Macabbi fans domestically and abroad. I believe the phrase “a sizeable chunk” to be a pretty accurate summary. I have to say it’s the first time in all my years of watching football that blatant football hooliganism, openly racist and bigoted chanting and ruining a minute silence for the victims of a flood have been defended by the mainstream media and by people who would normally be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to football fans and their behaviour….. |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 22:13:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 11, 2024 22:13:07 GMT
It's a bit strange trying to criticise someone for attempting to be balanced. It's also probably not the greatest move to completely stereotype an entire group of people by suggesting that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were". It's problematic at best. Of course, some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti-Palestinian behaviour, such as chanting anti-Arab slogans and removing Palestinian flags. However, nuance kicks in when it's clear that these actions do not represent all fans of the club. The behaviour of a few individuals should never be used to generalise an entire fan base or, for that matter, any group of people. If that were the case, presumably all Stoke fans would be closeted in the Naughty lot, be generally racist, go around wrecking pubs, and get into fights with opposition fans or random members of the public at every away game. The same principle applies to what's going on in Gaza vis-à-vis Hamas, hostages, and the lack of verifiable information around potential Israeli genocide. One needs to have an understanding of the nuance around Israel in order to have a rounded perspective of the issues surrounding it. People continually castigating entire swathes of people in the interests of making some sort of point against either side and not employing both balance and nuance is part of the problem. Whatever anyone says or thinks, Metalhead is right to some extent - perpetuating a victim complex is a modern day curse. How is using the phrase “a sizeable chunk” stereotyping a whole fanbase? Feel free look at how the fans reaction to Mahran Radi and other Arab players at the club, look at the “Macabbi fanatics” chanting death threats in their thousands. And look at the reaction of the fans their own clubs “Give racism the boot” campaign designed to stamp out intolerance on the terraces. And the many many examples of violence from the Macabbi fans domestically and abroad. I believe the phrase “a sizeable chunk” to be a pretty accurate summary. I have to say it’s the first time in all my years of watching football that blatant football hooliganism, openly racist and bigoted chanting and ruining a minute silence for the victims of a flood have been defended by the mainstream media and by people who would normally be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to football fans and their behaviour….. Indeed. If I had to choose between suggesting it was 'sizeable junk' or just a 'few', I'm pretty sure which one I'd plump for ... |
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 22:40:48 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 11, 2024 22:40:48 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 11, 2024 22:47:34 GMT
Haven’t those really bad Maccabi fans gone home yet🤔😊
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Israel
Nov 11, 2024 22:48:17 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 11, 2024 22:48:17 GMT
Johnson obviously banking on the fact that his intended audience will be completely unaware that Churchill was a massive racist himself. We've seen a pogrom take place in Amsterdam this week? Fuck me sideways, it's utterly vile propaganda and sadly, people will simply lap it up at face value. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 11, 2024 22:56:21 GMT
It's a bit strange trying to criticise someone for attempting to be balanced. It's also probably not the greatest move to completely stereotype an entire group of people by suggesting that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance and the evidence on the night that a sizeable chunk of their fans were". It's problematic at best. Of course, some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti-Palestinian behaviour, such as chanting anti-Arab slogans and removing Palestinian flags. However, nuance kicks in when it's clear that these actions do not represent all fans of the club. The behaviour of a few individuals should never be used to generalise an entire fan base or, for that matter, any group of people. If that were the case, presumably all Stoke fans would be closeted in the Naughty lot, be generally racist, go around wrecking pubs, and get into fights with opposition fans or random members of the public at every away game. The same principle applies to what's going on in Gaza vis-à-vis Hamas, hostages, and the lack of verifiable information around potential Israeli genocide. One needs to have an understanding of the nuance around Israel in order to have a rounded perspective of the issues surrounding it. People continually castigating entire swathes of people in the interests of making some sort of point against either side and not employing both balance and nuance is part of the problem. Whatever anyone says or thinks, Metalhead is right to some extent - perpetuating a victim complex is a modern day curse. How is using the phrase “a sizeable chunk” stereotyping a whole fanbase? Feel free look at how the fans reaction to Mahran Radi and other Arab players at the club, look at the “Macabbi fanatics” chanting death threats in their thousands. And look at the reaction of the fans their own clubs “Give racism the boot” campaign designed to stamp out intolerance on the terraces. And the many many examples of violence from the Macabbi fans domestically and abroad. I believe the phrase “a sizeable chunk” to be a pretty accurate summary. I have to say it’s the first time in all my years of watching football that blatant football hooliganism, openly racist and bigoted chanting and ruining a minute silence for the victims of a flood have been defended by the mainstream media and by people who would normally be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to football fans and their behaviour….. You’ve blatantly and clearly said “ Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance” and then evidenced one incident to attempt to justify your sweeping generalisation. I don’t doubt some MTA fans have an openly anti-Palestinian stance. But to imply they all do is manifestly unfounded and unfair. Don’t take my word for it. Read your own post back to yourself. According to that logic; *all Celtic fans support the IRA as there are many cited examples *all Rangers fans support the UVF as there are many cited examples *all Stoke fans are violent BNP supporting sociopaths as there are many cited examples As Metalhead said - nuance is important. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 11, 2024 23:09:17 GMT
How is using the phrase “a sizeable chunk” stereotyping a whole fanbase? Feel free look at how the fans reaction to Mahran Radi and other Arab players at the club, look at the “Macabbi fanatics” chanting death threats in their thousands. And look at the reaction of the fans their own clubs “Give racism the boot” campaign designed to stamp out intolerance on the terraces. And the many many examples of violence from the Macabbi fans domestically and abroad. I believe the phrase “a sizeable chunk” to be a pretty accurate summary. I have to say it’s the first time in all my years of watching football that blatant football hooliganism, openly racist and bigoted chanting and ruining a minute silence for the victims of a flood have been defended by the mainstream media and by people who would normally be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to football fans and their behaviour….. You’ve blatantly and clearly said “ Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have form for their openly anti-Palestinian stance” and then evidenced one incident to attempt to justify your sweeping generalisation. I don’t doubt some MTA fans have an openly anti-Palestinian stance. But to imply they all do is manifestly unfounded and unfair. Don’t take my word for it. Read your own post back to yourself. According to that logic; *all Celtic fans support the IRA as there are many cited examples *all Rangers fans support the UVF as there are many cited examples *all Stoke fans are violent BNP supporting sociopaths as there are many cited examples As Metalhead said - nuance is important. They do have form. And a sizeable chunk of them have proven that on multiple occasions. You appear to be mixing nuance with semantics….. |
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