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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:46:15 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 13:46:15 GMT
Well maybe you should try actually reading the thread then, rather than skim reading it and ultimately making a berk of yourself as a result. And I would suggest that you are the one who is nieve ... As I said yesterday, from 2015 to 2022 (so obviously prior to October 7th) the UN issued 208 resolutions against countries around the world. 140 we're against Israel itself and 68 were against all the other countries COMBINED. The US vetoed every single one of those resolutions. As long as American foreign policy is able to neuter the will of the rest of the World, when it comes to the issue of Israel, then it is going to be nigh on impossible to resolve the crisis. But (as I also said yesterday) we don't give up and we look to other Western leaders to continue to put pressure (where they can). Macron told Netanyahu yesterday, that what he was doing was barbaric, which is light years away from the rhetoric currently coming from Anthony Blinken and we are seeing a growing number of dissenting voices from the likes of Italy, Spain, Norway and Ireland amongst others and it is essential that this momentum continues, although it is going to be difficult in the face of such huge influence from the Israel Lobby in other countries (including our own). The reasons the US vetoes UN resolutions against Israel are obvious. The US has a long history of using its veto power at the UN to block resolutions critical of Israel, largely due to the strong political, military, and economic ties between the two countries. The US cites Israel's right to self-defence and its strategic importance in the Middle East as reasons for its support. Additionally, the US aims to maintain stability in the region and protect its own interests, which it believes are closely aligned with those of Israel. As I said earlier (presumably if your selective autism hadn't kicked in and prevented you from reading the thread) the US acts as a counterbalance against sanctions from other Western countries which might impact Israel's economy and international relations and thus its position in the Middle East. It is not in the US' interests to have a weakened Israel. The US-Israel relationship provides the US with a strategic foothold in the region, access to advanced technology, and valuable intelligence.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:46:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 13:46:58 GMT
I always thought it was common knowledge that the SAS were on standby and ready to assist in Israeli rescue operations in Gaza if needed. Specifically, they are prepared to help rescue British hostages held by Hamas in Gaza, working alongside special forces from Israel and the US. If it were common knowledge they wouldn't be sending D notices would they. And if it was just for hostages and innocent reasons again, would they be sending D notices.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:54:06 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 13:54:06 GMT
I always thought it was common knowledge that the SAS were on standby and ready to assist in Israeli rescue operations in Gaza if needed. Specifically, they are prepared to help rescue British hostages held by Hamas in Gaza, working alongside special forces from Israel and the US. If it were common knowledge they wouldn't be sending D notices would they. And if it was just for hostages and innocent reasons again, would they be sending D notices. Logically its common sense that the SAS would be trying to get British hostages out of Hamas controlled areas. Given the fact that the D Notices (advisory and not legally binding) are merely official requests to news editors in the UK not to publish or broadcast items on SAS involvement in the Israel conflict for reasons of national security, it is clearly common knowledge amongst that group of people. And "Yes" - they would issue D Notices to stop any publication of specific SAS involvement in hostage rescues.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:02:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 25, 2024 14:02:57 GMT
The political opposition parties in Sweden (meaning The Left Party Communists, The Socialdemocrats, The Green Party and The Center Liberal Party) criticise the government for not rejecting Nathanyahoo and what's happening in Gaza.
The response came from The Conservatives M Party Maria M: Yes, but we shall never forget it was a terror organisation called Hamas who started this war in the first place, it wasn't a war before. We must also guarantee that the help gets through to Gaza and work for peace!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2024 14:10:56 GMT
Well maybe you should try actually reading the thread then, rather than skim reading it and ultimately making a berk of yourself as a result. And I would suggest that you are the one who is nieve ... As I said yesterday, from 2015 to 2022 (so obviously prior to October 7th) the UN issued 208 resolutions against countries around the world. 140 we're against Israel itself and 68 were against all the other countries COMBINED. The US vetoed every single one of those resolutions. As long as American foreign policy is able to neuter the will of the rest of the World, when it comes to the issue of Israel, then it is going to be nigh on impossible to resolve the crisis. But (as I also said yesterday) we don't give up and we look to other Western leaders to continue to put pressure (where they can). Macron told Netanyahu yesterday, that what he was doing was barbaric, which is light years away from the rhetoric currently coming from Anthony Blinken and we are seeing a growing number of dissenting voices from the likes of Italy, Spain, Norway and Ireland amongst others and it is essential that this momentum continues, although it is going to be difficult in the face of such huge influence from the Israel Lobby in other countries (including our own). The reasons the US vetoes UN resolutions against Israel are obvious. The US has a long history of using its veto power at the UN to block resolutions critical of Israel, largely due to the strong political, military, and economic ties between the two countries. The US cites Israel's right to self-defence and its strategic importance in the Middle East as reasons for its support. Additionally, the US aims to maintain stability in the region and protect its own interests, which it believes are closely aligned with those of Israel. As I said earlier (presumably if your selective autism hadn't kicked in and prevented you from reading the thread) the US acts as a counterbalance against sanctions from other Western countries which might impact Israel's economy and international relations and thus its position in the Middle East. It is not in the US' interests to have a weakened Israel. The US-Israel relationship provides the US with a strategic foothold in the region, access to advanced technology, and valuable intelligence. Absolutely and I haven't said anything to the contrary. Indeed everything you've said there is, in my opinion, one huge stumbling block to peace in the Middle East. Oh and FWIW, I've read every word on this thread.
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 14:14:42 GMT
If it were common knowledge they wouldn't be sending D notices would they. And if it was just for hostages and innocent reasons again, would they be sending D notices. Logically its common sense that the SAS would be trying to get British hostages out of Hamas controlled areas. Given the fact that the D Notices (advisory and not legally binding) are merely official requests to news editors in the UK not to publish or broadcast items on SAS involvement in the Israel conflict for reasons of national security, it is clearly common knowledge amongst that group of people. And "Yes" - they would issue D Notices to stop any publication of specific SAS involvement in hostage rescues. Should probably stop supporting Netanyahu then if that's the priority given the amount of hostage releases he's rejected. Netanyahu's problem is that hostages are all he has to continue his ethnic cleansing. If they're all returned then what excuse can he use? So if they want the hostages back... should probably stop supporting the guy who keeps refusing deals to get the hostages back. Seems common sense to me. Would be nice if the same care and thought was given to the 3 British citizens murdered by Israel too in the last year. But unfortunately British deaths still isn't enough to stop our support of genocide.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 14:17:41 GMT
The reasons the US vetoes UN resolutions against Israel are obvious. The US has a long history of using its veto power at the UN to block resolutions critical of Israel, largely due to the strong political, military, and economic ties between the two countries. The US cites Israel's right to self-defence and its strategic importance in the Middle East as reasons for its support. Additionally, the US aims to maintain stability in the region and protect its own interests, which it believes are closely aligned with those of Israel. As I said earlier (presumably if your selective autism hadn't kicked in and prevented you from reading the thread) the US acts as a counterbalance against sanctions from other Western countries which might impact Israel's economy and international relations and thus its position in the Middle East. It is not in the US' interests to have a weakened Israel. The US-Israel relationship provides the US with a strategic foothold in the region, access to advanced technology, and valuable intelligence. Absolutely and I haven't said anything to the contrary. Indeed everything you've said there is, in my opinion, one huge stumbling block to peace in the Middle East. Oh and FWIW, I've read every word on this thread. I don't doubt it 😂
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:20:21 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 14:20:21 GMT
Logically its common sense that the SAS would be trying to get British hostages out of Hamas controlled areas. Given the fact that the D Notices (advisory and not legally binding) are merely official requests to news editors in the UK not to publish or broadcast items on SAS involvement in the Israel conflict for reasons of national security, it is clearly common knowledge amongst that group of people. And "Yes" - they would issue D Notices to stop any publication of specific SAS involvement in hostage rescues. Should probably stop supporting Netanyahu then if that's the priority given the amount of hostage releases he's rejected. Netanyahu's problem is that hostages are all he has to continue his ethnic cleansing. If they're all returned then what excuse can he use? So if they want the hostages back... should probably stop supporting the guy who keeps refusing deals to get the hostages back. Seems common sense to me. Would be nice if the same care and thought was given to the 3 British citizens murdered by Israel too in the last year. But unfortunately British deaths still isn't enough to stop our support of genocide. It's slightly more nuanced than that - although I take your point on Netanyahu. I've said before that, for me at least, he's one of the hostile actors. The situation regarding hostage releases in Gaza is complex. Israel has been involved in negotiations for the release of hostages held by Hamas. However, there have been significant challenges and delays in these negotiations. For example, the killing of Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar has complicated efforts to broker a ceasefire and hostage release deal. Additionally, families of hostages have urged the US to apply more pressure on mediating countries to restart negotiations.
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 14:20:22 GMT
George Galloway, Jeremy Corbyn and Alex Salmond like this.
Explains alot about Mr CPS too.
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 14:23:57 GMT
Should probably stop supporting Netanyahu then if that's the priority given the amount of hostage releases he's rejected. Netanyahu's problem is that hostages are all he has to continue his ethnic cleansing. If they're all returned then what excuse can he use? So if they want the hostages back... should probably stop supporting the guy who keeps refusing deals to get the hostages back. Seems common sense to me. Would be nice if the same care and thought was given to the 3 British citizens murdered by Israel too in the last year. But unfortunately British deaths still isn't enough to stop our support of genocide. It's slightly more nuanced than that - although I take your point on Netanyahu. I've said before that, for me at least, he's one of the hostile actors. The situation regarding hostage releases in Gaza is complex. Israel has been involved in negotiations for the release of hostages held by Hamas. However, there have been significant challenges and delays in these negotiations. For example, the killing of Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar has complicated efforts to broker a ceasefire and hostage release deal. Additionally, families of hostages have urged the US to apply more pressure on mediating countries to restart negotiations. Without hostages there is no justification for the flattening of Gaza. And as long as hostages are in Gaza there's no need for serious conversations in the Israeli government about recognising Palestine, the west bank settlers, the oppression of thr Palestine people. It is not in Netanyahu's interests to have the hostages released. Because the hostages are the only justification he has for his war crimes and continued oppression of the Palestine people. Do you think it serves his personal interests to have the hostages released?
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:27:09 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 14:27:09 GMT
George Galloway, Jeremy Corbyn and Alex Salmond like this. Explains alot about Mr CPS too. I can take or leave Chomsky, in fairness. I know he's known for his strong critiques of US foreign policy and media. I'm just naturally suspicious of people who describe themselves as an anarcho-syndicalist and libertarian socialist. Given his political stance, it's natural that his views might be perceived as biased, especially by those who disagree with his perspectives. Chomsky argues that systemic biases in corporate mass media serve elite interests and manipulate public opinion. That perspective itself can be seen as a form of bias, as it critiques the very institutions that many people rely on for information. For me, he always lets his political ideology colour his analysis (i.e. he rarely poses a counter argument) but I've no doubt his supporters see him as a necessary voice.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:30:20 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 14:30:20 GMT
It's slightly more nuanced than that - although I take your point on Netanyahu. I've said before that, for me at least, he's one of the hostile actors. The situation regarding hostage releases in Gaza is complex. Israel has been involved in negotiations for the release of hostages held by Hamas. However, there have been significant challenges and delays in these negotiations. For example, the killing of Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar has complicated efforts to broker a ceasefire and hostage release deal. Additionally, families of hostages have urged the US to apply more pressure on mediating countries to restart negotiations. Without hostages there is no justification for the flattening of Gaza. And as long as hostages are in Gaza there's no need for serious conversations in the Israeli government about recognising Palestine, the west bank settlers, the oppression of thr Palestine people. It is not in Netanyahu's interests to have the hostages released. Because the hostages are the only justification he has for his war crimes and continued oppression of the Palestine people. Do you think it serves his personal interests to have the hostages released? That's not strictly true. Israel's proclaimed primary justification for its military actions in Gaza is self-defence against Hamas, which carried out attacks on Israeli territory. The Israeli government has consistently argued that its actions are primarily necessary to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas and to protect its citizens. Additionally, Israel has cited the need to prevent further attacks and to dismantle Hamas's military infrastructure. Very much the same rationale it applies to Hezbollah.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:32:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 14:32:48 GMT
Without hostages there is no justification for the flattening of Gaza. And as long as hostages are in Gaza there's no need for serious conversations in the Israeli government about recognising Palestine, the west bank settlers, the oppression of thr Palestine people. It is not in Netanyahu's interests to have the hostages released. Because the hostages are the only justification he has for his war crimes and continued oppression of the Palestine people. Do you think it serves his personal interests to have the hostages released? That's not strictly true. Israel's proclaimed primary justification for its military actions in Gaza is self-defence against Hamas, which carried out attacks on Israeli territory. The Israeli government has consistently argued that its actions are primarily necessary to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas and to protect its citizens. Additionally, Israel has cited the need to prevent further attacks and to dismantle Hamas's military infrastructure. Very much the same rationale it applies to Hezbollah. I made a mistake earlier. I said Israel killed 3 British aid workers. I forgot the 4 British oxfam engineers who Israel also killed. If the hostages are a priority then surely putting their rescue in the hands of a regime who has managed to nearly kill more British citizens than the amount held hostage, isn't the best idea? If your child was held hostage and Bob managed to kill 7 more of your children in his efforts to "rescue the hostages". Would you still trust Bob to rescue your child? I know I wouldn't.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 14:35:23 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 14:35:23 GMT
That's not strictly true. Israel's proclaimed primary justification for its military actions in Gaza is self-defence against Hamas, which carried out attacks on Israeli territory. The Israeli government has consistently argued that its actions are primarily necessary to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas and to protect its citizens. Additionally, Israel has cited the need to prevent further attacks and to dismantle Hamas's military infrastructure. Very much the same rationale it applies to Hezbollah. I made a mistake earlier. I said Israel killed 3 British aid workers. I forgot the 4 British oxfam engineers who Israel also killed. If the hostages are a priority then surely putting their rescue in the hands of a regime who has managed to nearly kill more British citizens than the amount held hostage, isn't the best idea? If your child was held hostage and Bob managed to kill 7 more of your children in his efforts to "rescue the hostages". Would you still trust Bob to rescue your child? I know I wouldn't. Who said the hostages were a priority? Israel's proclaimed primary justification for its military actions in Gaza is self-defence against Hamas, which carried out attacks on Israeli territory. The Israeli government has consistently argued that its actions are primarily necessary to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas and to protect its citizens. Additionally, Israel has cited the need to prevent further attacks and to dismantle Hamas's military infrastructure.
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 14:44:25 GMT
I made a mistake earlier. I said Israel killed 3 British aid workers. I forgot the 4 British oxfam engineers who Israel also killed. If the hostages are a priority then surely putting their rescue in the hands of a regime who has managed to nearly kill more British citizens than the amount held hostage, isn't the best idea? If your child was held hostage and Bob managed to kill 7 more of your children in his efforts to "rescue the hostages". Would you still trust Bob to rescue your child? I know I wouldn't. Who said the hostages were a priority? Israel's proclaimed primary justification for its military actions in Gaza is self-defence against Hamas, which carried out attacks on Israeli territory. The Israeli government has consistently argued that its actions are primarily necessary to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas and to protect its citizens. Additionally, Israel has cited the need to prevent further attacks and to dismantle Hamas's military infrastructure.
The key word is proclaimed here. If you believe and trust that then who am I to judge. But we can agree to disagree on that.
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 25, 2024 23:59:55 GMT
Now attacking Iran with major missile attack
They do not want peace only revenge and destabilise of the area
They are as guilty ad the terrorists
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 26, 2024 0:10:36 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms
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Post by serpico on Oct 26, 2024 0:11:33 GMT
If the US had proper leadership right now this wouldn’t have happened! We all know Biden is senile and quite clearly isn’t fit to run a corner shop let alone America, and Watching Harris’ performance these past few weeks makes it’s crystal clear that the US is absolutely rudderless and in a crisis of leadership, many nations are taking advantage of this! Mainly Russia and Israel!
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Post by Gods on Oct 26, 2024 0:44:45 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms Indeed it would. The thought that the UK is arming these vile Israeli fuckers just makes your heart sink.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 0:44:49 GMT
Post by professorplump on Oct 26, 2024 0:44:49 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms What do you propose to do about Iran?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2024 1:37:05 GMT
Just so we are absolutely clear ...
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 3:13:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2024 3:13:01 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms Absolutely. We were right not to do to Ireland what Israel is doing to Gaza, and a lot of their actions seem truly monstrous and just won't help. Otoh, we didn't have a realistic belief that we could be exterminated by Ireland or its allies if they were given a chance. Seems to me there needs to be an attempt to understand Israelis' fears too. I don't feel like I know enough to be confident about what to do but I'm absolutely sickened by what I've seen both Hamas a d the IDF do.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 3:14:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2024 3:14:20 GMT
Israel hitting Iran.
Round and round and round it goes. 😢
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 26, 2024 3:34:42 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms What do you propose to do about Iran? Jaw jaw not war war for every one killed 2 will take there place more radical than the ones they kill What needs to happen is political will to be for peace an an agreement like ni or south Africa Peace is there if you are brave enough and not looking for appreciated or war
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 6:54:09 GMT
Post by professorplump on Oct 26, 2024 6:54:09 GMT
What do you propose to do about Iran? Jaw jaw not war war for every one killed 2 will take there place more radical than the ones they kill What needs to happen is political will to be for peace an an agreement like ni or south Africa Peace is there if you are brave enough and not looking for appreciated or war I do actually agree with you however there needs to be political will on both sides. Personally I would like to see regime change in both Israel and Iran but sadly it isn't going to happen so the endless cycle will continue indefinitely.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 26, 2024 7:11:57 GMT
Always amazes me when our politicians say ‘x has the right to defend itself against y aggression’.
Ok great, but doesn’t y also have the right to defend itself against x aggression?
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 7:33:22 GMT
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Post by lordb on Oct 26, 2024 7:33:22 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms What do you propose to do about Iran? Containment Isolate them Instead they are being strengthened
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 8:57:33 GMT
Think it's time to force peace by withdrawing armaments from Israel both us and the us and refusing to bolster there airforce with ours and the us As I said on another thread if thatcher had bombed Ireland to get rid of terrorists the way Israel have the world would have been up in arms What do you propose to do about Iran? Diplomacy and Alliances: Strengthening alliances with Western countries and regional partners to counterbalance Iran's influence. This includes working closely with the US and other allies to maintain a strategic advantage. Military Preparedness: Maintaining a strong military presence and readiness to respond to threats from Iran and its proxies. This includes the use of advanced defence systems like the Iron Dome. Economic Measures: Implementing economic sanctions and other measures to weaken Iran's ability to fund militant groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. Humanitarian Efforts: Addressing the humanitarian needs of Palestinians while seeking a long-term political solution. This involves working with international organisations to provide aid and support to civilians in Gaza and the West Bank. Negotiations: Engaging in peace talks and negotiations to find a sustainable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This includes addressing key issues such as borders, security, and the status of Jerusalem.
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Post by gawa on Oct 26, 2024 9:06:11 GMT
More clown world wokeness
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Israel
Oct 26, 2024 9:16:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 26, 2024 9:16:52 GMT
It seems Iran does not have the right to defend itself.
To be fair defending itself is probably antisemetic so makes sense.
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