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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 15:06:34 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 24, 2024 15:06:34 GMT
Now I'm not sure that IS what she was implying but nevertheless, that is an utter piece of fucking shit answer to such a serious question, regardless of what she actually meant (and I'm damned if I know). Terrifyingly thick as mince. Personally, I think the only thing she is guilty of there is unskilfully sidestepping an important question. Really disingenuous tweet imo. There was nothing clear or succinct about her answer at all. I do wonder if the host pressed her or challenged her to go back and corroborate her waffle, and the poster cut it out. A shame if not. Indeed, exactly. However I do think your use of the word 'only' there, is doing a huge amount of heavy lifting. If this is the best answer that the potential next president of the United States can come up with, then the Palestinians are well and truly fucked ...
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Post by noustie on Oct 24, 2024 15:15:52 GMT
Now I'm not sure that IS what she was implying but nevertheless, that is an utter piece of fucking shit answer to such a serious question, regardless of what she actually meant (and I'm damned if I know). Terrifyingly thick as mince. Christ how is this the best they've got ffs! Feels like we're at the end of an empire. The only way that answer could have been worse is if she'd said 'Listen it'd be like walking into Tesco without having a club card'
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 15:24:46 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 24, 2024 15:24:46 GMT
Well yes I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. If what you believe is true there is no hope for the Palestinians - they have the largest industrial and military complex fully backing a policy of genocide and are arming the Isrealis knowing full well that is the intended outcome. If you are right the Palestinians are going to get annihilated. The situation is literally hopeless. That is why we have to hope that Western citizens around the world continue to rise up and put pressure on THEIR government's and continue to say 'not in my name'. In the last 12 months, we have seen significant shifts from the government's of Spain, Italy, France, Norway and Ireland amongst others and we need this momentum to continue. As I've said before, originally Reagan and Thatcher were totally opposed to placing sanctions on South Africa but ultimately, they were shamed into falling in line with the rest of the world. We are at similar juncture in history now, although I accept the Israel lobby around the world, is far stronger now than it's ever been. Netanyahu had said on Europe 1 radio on Wednesday: “It is a war of civilisations against barbarism; we are at the forefront of this war and France must support Israel.” In words directed at Netanyahu, with whom his relationship has deteriorated badly, he said: “We have been talking a lot in recent days about a war of civilisations or about civilisations that must be defended. I am not sure that we defend a civilisation by sowing barbarism ourselves.” Does it matter if other Western countries apply sanctions on Isreal if the US continues to supply arms? There is absolutely no indication that US foreign policy is going to change fundamentally under either Harris or Trump and the conflict does not appear to be a major factor in the US presidential election. I also can't see the US changing its position on the back of world opinion - as you have said yourself in terms of the UN they have been prepared to go it alone for years. I don't subscribe to the view that US foreign policy is aligned with the extremists in Isreal who want to eradicate the people of Palestine and claim their land. I subscribe to the view that the US is committed to ensuring the state of Isreal is not eradicated by those who seek to destroy it but is also committed to the establishment of a state for the Palestinian people - as is our government. If I am right - and I may well be wrong - I don't perceive the need for a fundamental shift in the US position because I don't perceive it to be as in thrall to the extremists in Isreal as you seem to believe it to be. Yes they could do more (as could our government) but I think a peaceful solution for the Palestinian people is part and parcel of US foreign policy already. The US government is neither a puppet of Isreal nor committed to the genocide of the Palestinian people.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 16:22:09 GMT
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Post by Davef on Oct 24, 2024 16:22:09 GMT
Maybe he didn't fancy chancing his luck when confronted by armed terrorists, or maybe, like I did say, he's full of shit. That doesn't explain why the BBC and Sky thought they could find anything in the hospital itself when the IDF statement implicitly said that it was beneath the hospital and access couldn't be gained via the hospital. To be fair Dave I remember when the IDF told us about the hamas headquarters and command centre under Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza. And then they bombed it to shit, killed lots more women and children and kept most of the hospital staff prisoners while they tortured and even killed some. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz47w24dld0oAnd then for some reason the director of the hospital who knew all about the "hamas headquarters" was released 7 months later despite being complicit I presume? I'm yet to see the videos of these headquarters. Have you got any? It must be pretty lavish and filled with lots of gold like the ones under the Lebanon hospital? Or was it that the hospital did have a "tunnel" which was a secure underground operating room... built by Israel in 1983: "In 1983, the Israelis built "a secure underground operating room and tunnel network" beneath Building 2 of the hospital" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shifa_hospitalI'm surprised by you Dave as you're usually a keen fact checker but it seems you're just taking this person's word for it. Should Israel flatten another hospital and murder more women and kids just incase? It's like a game of deal or no deal. Command centre or no command centre. Where Israel bombs hospitals and surprise surprise innocent people die and no command centres get found. We've had command centres in Al-Shifa hospital, Al-Quds, Indonesian hospital all with command centres. So sure why not 4th time lucky and bomb a few more kids in Sahel hospital. Because its not as if the IDF have any history for lying. We've all seen the command centres from the previous 3 hospitals and how bombing those hospitals got rid of hamas and brought peace. So why not do hospital number 4 in while we are at it. Fuck me sideways, this is hard work. I'm not taking the IDF's word for anything. They issued a statement claiming that Hezbollah have a horde hidden underneath the hospital and access can only be gained via adjacent buildings. According to a Lebanese journalist, he was met with the sight of armed guards when he ventured to those buildings. The BBC and Sky then decided, in their infinite wisdom, that they would go directly into the hospital to search for this horde and surprise, surprise they couldn't find anything.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 16:24:53 GMT
Post by PotterLog on Oct 24, 2024 16:24:53 GMT
That is why we have to hope that Western populations around the world continue to rise up and put pressure on THEIR government's and continue to say 'not in my name'. In the last 12 months, we have seen significant shifts from the government's of Spain, Italy, France, Norway and Ireland amongst others and we need this momentum to continue. As I've said before, originally Reagan and Thatcher were totally opposed to placing sanctions on South Africa but ultimately, they were shamed into falling behind the rest of the world. We are at similar juncture in history now, although I accept the Israel lobby around the world, is far stronger now than it's ever been. BRICS countries have met this week and spoken about whats happened in Gaza as well as the complicity of the UN and the ICJ. I wonder if we may see increased pressure from them towards the west off the back of this conference. The group is quite some size now and if they stay united they may even have the ability to put economic pressure on us for once. Now there's a juncture in history for you. Choose your side very carefully everyone
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 16:36:02 GMT
via mobile
GlennA likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 24, 2024 16:36:02 GMT
That is why we have to hope that Western citizens around the world continue to rise up and put pressure on THEIR government's and continue to say 'not in my name'. In the last 12 months, we have seen significant shifts from the government's of Spain, Italy, France, Norway and Ireland amongst others and we need this momentum to continue. As I've said before, originally Reagan and Thatcher were totally opposed to placing sanctions on South Africa but ultimately, they were shamed into falling in line with the rest of the world. We are at similar juncture in history now, although I accept the Israel lobby around the world, is far stronger now than it's ever been. Netanyahu had said on Europe 1 radio on Wednesday: “It is a war of civilisations against barbarism; we are at the forefront of this war and France must support Israel.” In words directed at Netanyahu, with whom his relationship has deteriorated badly, he said: “We have been talking a lot in recent days about a war of civilisations or about civilisations that must be defended. I am not sure that we defend a civilisation by sowing barbarism ourselves.” Does it matter if other Western countries apply sanctions on Isreal if the US continues to supply arms? There is absolutely no indication that US foreign policy is going to change fundamentally under either Harris or Trump and the conflict does not appear to be a major factor in the US presidential election. I also can't see the US changing its position on the back of world opinion - as you have said yourself in terms of the UN they have been prepared to go it alone for years. I don't subscribe to the view that US foreign policy is aligned with the extremists in Isreal who want to eradicate the people of Palestine and claim their land. I subscribe to the view that the US is committed to ensuring the state of Isreal is not eradicated by those who seek to destroy it but is also committed to the establishment of a state for the Palestinian people - as is our government. If I am right - and I may well be wrong - I don't perceive the need for a fundamental shift in the US position because I don't perceive it to be as in thrall to the extremists in Isreal as you seem to believe it to be. Yes they could do more (as could our government) but I think a peaceful solution for the Palestinian people is part and parcel of US foreign policy already. The US government is neither a puppet of Isreal nor committed to the genocide of the Palestinian people. If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ...
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 24, 2024 18:00:45 GMT
Does it matter if other Western countries apply sanctions on Isreal if the US continues to supply arms? There is absolutely no indication that US foreign policy is going to change fundamentally under either Harris or Trump and the conflict does not appear to be a major factor in the US presidential election. I also can't see the US changing its position on the back of world opinion - as you have said yourself in terms of the UN they have been prepared to go it alone for years. I don't subscribe to the view that US foreign policy is aligned with the extremists in Isreal who want to eradicate the people of Palestine and claim their land. I subscribe to the view that the US is committed to ensuring the state of Isreal is not eradicated by those who seek to destroy it but is also committed to the establishment of a state for the Palestinian people - as is our government. If I am right - and I may well be wrong - I don't perceive the need for a fundamental shift in the US position because I don't perceive it to be as in thrall to the extremists in Isreal as you seem to believe it to be. Yes they could do more (as could our government) but I think a peaceful solution for the Palestinian people is part and parcel of US foreign policy already. The US government is neither a puppet of Isreal nor committed to the genocide of the Palestinian people. If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ... Interesting all that. I don't profess to know anything of detail about all this. But I've one question. Did the Abraham Accord brokered a few years back have the possibility to achieve any good in the middle East. I was under the belief that that agreement was going to help stabilise relations in the area. But obviously with all the current mess going on it would appear it hasn't achieved much. Indeed has that accord now been ditched or just being ignored currently. Someone's mum needs to pop over there and tell em all to pack it in sharpish...
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Post by gawa on Oct 24, 2024 18:08:26 GMT
Remember this woke nonsense a few months ago.
Could you imagine the uproar if an Iaraelis art was taken down for the same reasons?
What next will the snowflakes be trying to cancel. Lebanese restaurants?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 24, 2024 18:12:43 GMT
Remember this woke nonsense a few months ago. Could you imagine the uproar if an Iaraelis art was taken down for the same reasons? What next will the snowflakes be trying to cancel. Lebanese restaurants? They’d better not, love a Lebanese restaurant!
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Post by wannabee on Oct 24, 2024 19:58:34 GMT
If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ... Interesting all that. I don't profess to know anything of detail about all this. But I've one question. Did the Abraham Accord brokered a few years back have the possibility to achieve any good in the middle East. I was under the belief that that agreement was going to help stabilise relations in the area. But obviously with all the current mess going on it would appear it hasn't achieved much. Indeed has that accord now been ditched or just being ignored currently. Someone's mum needs to pop over there and tell em all to pack it in sharpish... The Abraham Accords were/are very limited A few Gulf States agreed to recognize Israel and each would share intelligence. As they had never been at War it was obviously not a Peace Treaty. It wasn't novel as Egypt and Jordon who had been at War with Israel had operated Peace Treaty's for decades Moreover it was a coalition building exercise against Iran (Shi'ite'') The follow up Trump Peace Deal whatever it was called was even worse. Part of the plan was to copperfasten Israel exercising full Sovereignty over Jerusalem and about 30% of the West Bank and some Palestinians moving to some dirt patches on the Southern Border. Cynics might conclude Trump who was defending impeachment and Netanyahu trying to stay out of Court/Gaol at the time cooked it up as a distraction Biden Administration have made little efforts to revive the Abrahams Accords but with little success or enthusiasm and events of 7 October and after have killed it dead in the water. That's my take, other may disagree
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 24, 2024 20:09:57 GMT
Interesting all that. I don't profess to know anything of detail about all this. But I've one question. Did the Abraham Accord brokered a few years back have the possibility to achieve any good in the middle East. I was under the belief that that agreement was going to help stabilise relations in the area. But obviously with all the current mess going on it would appear it hasn't achieved much. Indeed has that accord now been ditched or just being ignored currently. Someone's mum needs to pop over there and tell em all to pack it in sharpish... The Abraham Accords were/are very limited A few Gulf States agreed to recognize Israel and each would share intelligence. As they had never been at War it was obviously not a Peace Treaty. It wasn't novel as Egypt and Jordon who had been at War with Israel had operated Peace Treaty's for decades Moreover it was a coalition building exercise against Iran (Shi'ite'') The follow up Trump Peace Deal whatever it was called was even worse. Part of the plan was to copperfasten Israel exercising full Sovereignty over Jerusalem and about 30% of the West Bank and some Palestinians moving to some dirt patches on the Southern Border. Cynics might conclude Trump who was defending impeachment and Netanyahu trying to stay out of Court/Gaol at the time cooked it up as a distraction Biden Administration have made little efforts to revive the Abrahams Accords but with little success or enthusiasm and events of 7 October and after have killed it dead in the water. That's my take, other may disagree Cheers pal. I'll do a bit of reading 👍
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 24, 2024 21:07:54 GMT
If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ... Interesting all that. I don't profess to know anything of detail about all this. But I've one question. Did the Abraham Accord brokered a few years back have the possibility to achieve any good in the middle East. I was under the belief that that agreement was going to help stabilise relations in the area. But obviously with all the current mess going on it would appear it hasn't achieved much. Indeed has that accord now been ditched or just being ignored currently. Someone's mum needs to pop over there and tell em all to pack it in sharpish... I can't really add much to the excellent answer already given by wannabee, save to say, that they were never going to remotely provide a solution to the Palestine issue and Trump’s involvement was nothing more but transparent window dressing.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 21:49:14 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 24, 2024 21:49:14 GMT
One for the righteous brothers 🥴
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 21:53:29 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 24, 2024 21:53:29 GMT
One for Dario G & his Huddy bedmate
Statement by the Leader of the Islamic Republic, Ayatollah Khamenei, on the martyrdom of Hashem Safi Al-Din:
'In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most Benevolent:
Dear youth of the Resistance Front, His Excellency Sayyed Hashem Safi Al-Din, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, joined the ranks of the martyrs of the resistance and another bright star illuminated the sky of Jihad on the way to the Holiest of Holies. He was one of the most prominent personalities in Hezbollah and an unwavering friend and companion of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.
Hezbollah, with the tact and courage of leaders like him, was able to protect Lebanon from the danger of disintegration and to neutralize the threat of the usurping Zionist regime, whose brutal and cruel army is even attacking the capital Beirut. His bravery and sacrifice combined with the other commanders and the Mujahideen were the backbone of Nasrallah, who neutralized the Israeli threat of usurping and occupying Lebanon below the Litani River, Tyre and other cities in that region and its annexation to Israel. While preserving the territorial integrity of that country, he brought it to the field, and made the aggressor and criminal Zionist regime fail.
Today, leaders like Nasrallah and Safi Al-Din are no longer present in this epic, but their spirit and leadership is present in the field which defends Lebanon and its defenseless people. Even today, Hezbollah is the strongest protector of Lebanon and the only shield against the greed of the Zionist regime, which has long aimed at the division of Lebanon. The enemy tries to deny the selfless role that Hezbollah plays for Lebanon. Anyone who loves Lebanon should not let these false statements be heard from their throats.
Hezbollah is alive and growing, and is playing its historical role. As always, the Islamic Republic will help the Mujahideen of Al-Quds and those resisting the criminal occupying Zionist usurpers of Palestine, God willing.
I congratulate and offer my condolences on the martyrdom of our beloved Sayyed Hashem Safi Al-Din to his dear family, relatives and comrades in all the axes of resistance. And peace be upon the righteous servants of Allah.'
– Imam Sayyed Ali Hosseini Khamenei
(Middle East Spectator)
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 22:58:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 24, 2024 22:58:59 GMT
Does it matter if other Western countries apply sanctions on Isreal if the US continues to supply arms? There is absolutely no indication that US foreign policy is going to change fundamentally under either Harris or Trump and the conflict does not appear to be a major factor in the US presidential election. I also can't see the US changing its position on the back of world opinion - as you have said yourself in terms of the UN they have been prepared to go it alone for years. I don't subscribe to the view that US foreign policy is aligned with the extremists in Isreal who want to eradicate the people of Palestine and claim their land. I subscribe to the view that the US is committed to ensuring the state of Isreal is not eradicated by those who seek to destroy it but is also committed to the establishment of a state for the Palestinian people - as is our government. If I am right - and I may well be wrong - I don't perceive the need for a fundamental shift in the US position because I don't perceive it to be as in thrall to the extremists in Isreal as you seem to believe it to be. Yes they could do more (as could our government) but I think a peaceful solution for the Palestinian people is part and parcel of US foreign policy already. The US government is neither a puppet of Isreal nor committed to the genocide of the Palestinian people. If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ... Excellent video. And yes I agree with the video that both sides have committed terrorist acts and that Isreal is using propaganda to cover up and justify their atrocities. I also think the US government is well aware of their propaganda tricks and aren't just puppets of the Isreali government. If its obvious to me and you it's obvious to those defining US foreign policy and I don't believe the US government are committed to helping Isreal acheive a Palestinian genocide either as a matter of conscious policy or because they have been hoodwinked.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 23:11:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 24, 2024 23:11:47 GMT
Live in the US and want the mass slaughter in Ukraine and the Middle East to continue? Vote Kamala.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2024 23:36:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 24, 2024 23:36:11 GMT
If current American foreign policy doesn't change, then there is ZERO chance of the carnage ending. In 1982 the world watched in horror at the carnage Israel unleashed on Lebanon and then under huge world wide pressure, Reagen addressed the nation (well the whole world actually) from the Oval Office and told Israel to withdraw 'or else'. In 2000, Clinton sat down for two weeks with Barak and Arafat at Camp David in a genuine attempt to broker a peace deal and again later that year in Egypt and both sides issued a joint statement saying that they had never been closer to reaching an agreement but ultimately, negotiations broke down over the status of Jerusalem. Currently we are a MILLION miles away from either of the above examples of American foreign policy. This is largely due to the huge increase of power and influence from the Israel lobby in the decades since over both politicians and the media. The current US government is without a shadow of a doubt, MASSIVELY swayed by this lobby, you only have to look at the number of self confessed Zionists in Biden's administration. Things won't be getting any better if Trump wins in a couple of weeks. Neither Reagen or Clinton (and indeed many other US administrations) would have allowed Israel to continue it's current course of utter brutality, nevermind FUNDED it and in the absence of such moderators, it is going to be up to other Western leaders to try and attempt to steer a course towards some sort of sanity. Please try and find the time to watch the following 9 minute clip ... Excellent video. And yes I agree with the video that both sides have committed terrorist acts and that Isreal is using propaganda to cover up and justify their atrocities. I also think the US government is well aware of their propaganda tricks and aren't just puppets of the Isreali government. If its obvious to me and you it's obvious to those defining US foreign policy and I don't believe the US government are committed to helping Isreal acheive a Palestinian genocide either as a matter of conscious policy or because they have been hoodwinked. Do you also agree that current US foreign policy is a million miles away from the past examples I have given?
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 0:55:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2024 0:55:07 GMT
You've got to admit though that this journo must be a bit shit at his job. The BBC and Sky walk all around the hospital with their cameras filming and yet this reporter gets the scoop on where the gold REALLY is and discovers an iron vault door protected by men with guns and he doesn't have the wherewithal to even take a single photograph of it ... Maybe he didn't fancy chancing his luck when confronted by armed terrorists, or maybe, like I did say, he's full of shit. That doesn't explain why the BBC and Sky thought they could find anything in the hospital itself when the IDF statement implicitly said that it was beneath the hospital and access couldn't be gained via the hospital. I take your point. At least one British journo had the wherewithal to at least actually use the coordinates supplied by the IDF (part 2) ...
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 7:59:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 25, 2024 7:59:27 GMT
Excellent video. And yes I agree with the video that both sides have committed terrorist acts and that Isreal is using propaganda to cover up and justify their atrocities. I also think the US government is well aware of their propaganda tricks and aren't just puppets of the Isreali government. If its obvious to me and you it's obvious to those defining US foreign policy and I don't believe the US government are committed to helping Isreal acheive a Palestinian genocide either as a matter of conscious policy or because they have been hoodwinked. Do you also agree that current US foreign policy is a million miles away from the past examples I have given? No. The video you provided is a heavily edited propaganda piece showing one sided news reporting and journalistic opinion fron the time that implies the US support for Isreal was weaker. It wasn't. US foreign policy has been pretty consistent for decades. I agree with what some of the content says about the conflict but I don't agree it supports your contention. US support for Isreal did strengthen under Trump when the US embassy was moved to Jerusalem and the US recognised the Golan Heights as belonging to Isreal. Although Biden hasn't formally backtracked on either if these initiatives his administration has moved back to the mainstream US foreign policy position - unstinting support for the right of Isreal to exist and the establishment of a Palestinian state as a means of resolving the conflict. This article gives a fairly objective take on actual US foreign policy www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-us-policy-israeli-palestinian-conflict. I've answered your straight question with a straight answer. So here's mine - in October last year did Hamas commit terrorist acts designed to inflame tensions, incite insurrection in the West Bank and draw Hezbollah and Iran in an aĺl out conflict designed to eradicate the state of Isreal. If not why did they do what they did?
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 11:11:17 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 25, 2024 11:11:17 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 11:20:18 GMT
This will be the start of WW3 I presume then? Many of those UN peacekeepers are from NATO countries. Let's see if NATO lives up to it's name and defends our citizens against a non nato country. I won't hold my breath....
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Post by gawa on Oct 25, 2024 11:29:44 GMT
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 12:10:58 GMT
I always thought it was common knowledge that the SAS were on standby and ready to assist in Israeli rescue operations in Gaza if needed. Specifically, they are prepared to help rescue British hostages held by Hamas in Gaza, working alongside special forces from Israel and the US.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 12:14:16 GMT
That is why we have to hope that Western citizens around the world continue to rise up and put pressure on THEIR government's and continue to say 'not in my name'. In the last 12 months, we have seen significant shifts from the government's of Spain, Italy, France, Norway and Ireland amongst others and we need this momentum to continue. As I've said before, originally Reagan and Thatcher were totally opposed to placing sanctions on South Africa but ultimately, they were shamed into falling in line with the rest of the world. We are at similar juncture in history now, although I accept the Israel lobby around the world, is far stronger now than it's ever been. Netanyahu had said on Europe 1 radio on Wednesday: “It is a war of civilisations against barbarism; we are at the forefront of this war and France must support Israel.” In words directed at Netanyahu, with whom his relationship has deteriorated badly, he said: “We have been talking a lot in recent days about a war of civilisations or about civilisations that must be defended. I am not sure that we defend a civilisation by sowing barbarism ourselves.” Does it matter if other Western countries apply sanctions on Isreal if the US continues to supply arms? There is absolutely no indication that US foreign policy is going to change fundamentally under either Harris or Trump and the conflict does not appear to be a major factor in the US presidential election. I also can't see the US changing its position on the back of world opinion - as you have said yourself in terms of the UN they have been prepared to go it alone for years. I don't subscribe to the view that US foreign policy is aligned with the extremists in Isreal who want to eradicate the people of Palestine and claim their land. I subscribe to the view that the US is committed to ensuring the state of Isreal is not eradicated by those who seek to destroy it but is also committed to the establishment of a state for the Palestinian people - as is our government. If I am right - and I may well be wrong - I don't perceive the need for a fundamental shift in the US position because I don't perceive it to be as in thrall to the extremists in Isreal as you seem to believe it to be. Yes they could do more (as could our government) but I think a peaceful solution for the Palestinian people is part and parcel of US foreign policy already. The US government is neither a puppet of Isreal nor committed to the genocide of the Palestinian people. While Western countries imposing sanctions on Israel can certainly put pressure on the Israeli government, the continued supply of arms from the US acts as a counterbalance to that pressure to some extent. Sanctions from other Western countries might impact Israel's economy and international relations, but the US arms supply ensures that Israel maintains its military strength. That creates a situation where Israel feels less compelled to comply with the demands of other Western nations. It's a delicate balance of power and influence.
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 25, 2024 12:48:19 GMT
I always thought it was common knowledge that the SAS were on standby and ready to assist in Israeli rescue operations in Gaza if needed. Specifically, they are prepared to help rescue British hostages held by Hamas in Gaza, working alongside special forces from Israel and the US. Thank goodness for a bit of common sense, Ariel Mento. People like Garrard and others in the MSM seem to think they have a divine right to know everything. They don't. The ethos of our brilliant special forces is founded on a bed of secrecy with one aim; to protect British interests. What next from Garrard and the MSM? Do they want to know where every British spy is operating? Or maybe we should tell them where our nuclear subs are at any given moment. OS.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 12:58:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2024 12:58:32 GMT
Do you also agree that current US foreign policy is a million miles away from the past examples I have given? No. The video you provided is a heavily edited propaganda piece showing one sided news reporting and journalistic opinion fron the time that implies the US support for Isreal was weaker. It wasn't. US foreign policy has been pretty consistent for decades. I agree with what some of the content says about the conflict but I don't agree it supports your contention. US support for Isreal did strengthen under Trump when the US embassy was moved to Jerusalem and the US recognised the Golan Heights as belonging to Isreal. Although Biden hasn't formally backtracked on either if these initiatives his administration has moved back to the mainstream US foreign policy position - unstinting support for the right of Isreal to exist and the establishment of a Palestinian state as a means of resolving the conflict. This article gives a fairly objective take on actual US foreign policy www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-us-policy-israeli-palestinian-conflict. I've answered your straight question with a straight answer. So here's mine - in October last year did Hamas commit terrorist acts designed to inflame tensions, incite insurrection in the West Bank and draw Hezbollah and Iran in an aĺl out conflict designed to eradicate the state of Isreal. If not why did they do what they did? Well I'm gobsmacked that you can't see the difference between the examples I've given and the situation today. Reagen stopped supplying weapons to Israel and threatened them, in front of the world, if they didn't get out of Lebanon, he used the word holocaust himself. Clinton brought both of the main protagonists to America and had intense negotiations in an attempt to broker a peace. Today, we are as far away from peace as we've ever been and in my opinion, this is due to the hardening of the US position due to the increased rise in influence and power of AIPAC and the Israel Lobby generally, both politically (especially during the last two administrations) and across the media. But hey, we agree to disagree. If I may, I'll come back to your question a little later, as I'm a bit tied up at the minute and it's unfortunately, going to require a pretty lengthy answer.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:03:43 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 13:03:43 GMT
No. The video you provided is a heavily edited propaganda piece showing one sided news reporting and journalistic opinion fron the time that implies the US support for Isreal was weaker. It wasn't. US foreign policy has been pretty consistent for decades. I agree with what some of the content says about the conflict but I don't agree it supports your contention. US support for Isreal did strengthen under Trump when the US embassy was moved to Jerusalem and the US recognised the Golan Heights as belonging to Isreal. Although Biden hasn't formally backtracked on either if these initiatives his administration has moved back to the mainstream US foreign policy position - unstinting support for the right of Isreal to exist and the establishment of a Palestinian state as a means of resolving the conflict. This article gives a fairly objective take on actual US foreign policy www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-us-policy-israeli-palestinian-conflict. I've answered your straight question with a straight answer. So here's mine - in October last year did Hamas commit terrorist acts designed to inflame tensions, incite insurrection in the West Bank and draw Hezbollah and Iran in an aĺl out conflict designed to eradicate the state of Isreal. If not why did they do what they did? Well I'm gobsmacked that you can't see the difference between the examples I've given and the situation today. Reagen stopped supplying weapons to Israel and threatened them, in front of the world, if they didn't get out of Lebanon, he used the word holocaust himself. Clinton brought both of the main protagonists to America and had intense negotiations in an attempt to broker a peace. Today, we are as far away from peace as we've ever been and in my opinion, this is due to the hardening of the US position due to the increased rise in influence and power of AIPAC and the Israel Lobby generally, both politically and across the media. But hey, we agree to disagree. If I may, I'll come back to your question a little later, as I'm a bit tied up at the minute and it's unfortunately, going to require a pretty lengthy answer. A little one-sided and naïve. A change in US foreign policy could potentially impact the dynamics of the conflict, but it's not the only factor and nor could it ever be. Other international actors, regional politics, and the actions of both Israeli and Palestinian leaders also play crucial roles. It's too multifaceted an issue for the whole episode to rest in the hands of one actor. It requires a comprehensive approach involving diplomacy, humanitarian efforts, and international cooperation.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:08:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2024 13:08:08 GMT
Well I'm gobsmacked that you can't see the difference between the examples I've given and the situation today. Reagen stopped supplying weapons to Israel and threatened them, in front of the world, if they didn't get out of Lebanon, he used the word holocaust himself. Clinton brought both of the main protagonists to America and had intense negotiations in an attempt to broker a peace. Today, we are as far away from peace as we've ever been and in my opinion, this is due to the hardening of the US position due to the increased rise in influence and power of AIPAC and the Israel Lobby generally, both politically and across the media. But hey, we agree to disagree. If I may, I'll come back to your question a little later, as I'm a bit tied up at the minute and it's unfortunately, going to require a pretty lengthy answer. A little one-sided and naïve. A change in US foreign policy could potentially impact the dynamics of the conflict, but it's not the only factor and nor could it ever be. Other international actors, regional politics, and the actions of both Israeli and Palestinian leaders also play crucial roles. It's too multifaceted an issue for the whole episode to rest in the hands of one actor. It requires a comprehensive approach involving diplomacy, humanitarian efforts, and international cooperation. Which is literally what I said further up the page.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:09:20 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 13:09:20 GMT
A little one-sided and naïve. A change in US foreign policy could potentially impact the dynamics of the conflict, but it's not the only factor and nor could it ever be. Other international actors, regional politics, and the actions of both Israeli and Palestinian leaders also play crucial roles. It's too multifaceted an issue for the whole episode to rest in the hands of one actor. It requires a comprehensive approach involving diplomacy, humanitarian efforts, and international cooperation. Which is literally what I said further up the page. Good for you! 👏👏
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Israel
Oct 25, 2024 13:27:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2024 13:27:23 GMT
Which is literally what I said further up the page. Good for you! 👏👏 Well maybe you should try actually reading the thread then, rather than skim reading it and ultimately making a berk of yourself as a result. And I would suggest that you are the one who is nieve ... As I said yesterday, from 2015 to 2022 (so obviously prior to October 7th) the UN issued 208 resolutions against countries around the world. 140 we're against Israel itself and 68 were against all the other countries COMBINED. The US vetoed every single one of those resolutions. As long as American foreign policy is able to neuter the will of the rest of the World, when it comes to the issue of Israel, then it is going to be nigh on impossible to resolve the crisis. But (as I also said yesterday) we don't give up and we look to other Western leaders to continue to put pressure (where they can). Macron told Netanyahu yesterday, that what he was doing was barbaric, which is light years away from the rhetoric currently coming from Anthony Blinken and we are seeing a growing number of dissenting voices from the likes of Italy, Spain, Norway and Ireland amongst others and it is essential that this momentum continues, although it is going to be difficult in the face of such huge influence from the Israel Lobby in other countries (including our own).
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