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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 14:53:39 GMT
I'd like to hear some solutions for how some posters would convince terror groups like Gone quiet.... anybody? Without a solution to this, there is no point complaining about Israels course of action. You can criticise their methods, but it doesn't provide a solution. It's excessive yes, abhorrent yes, but there is also no place for these two terror groups and you can't reasonably expect Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah to live peacefully next door to each other. How this conflict came to be and the history behind it is irrelevant if you seriously want to find a solution. So again, does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, to accept a long standing truce and two state solution? Mate at the risk of ending our truce, I'll have a crack ... Understanding how this conflict came to be and the history behind it, is absolutely VITAL if you seriously want to find a solution. The vast majority of the public and a great number of politicians don't know the history and indeed don't WANT to know the history. Anybody with even an ounce of human integrity, who believes that colonialism is wrong and understands the modern history of Palestine, also understands, that a grave injustice has been meted out on the Palestinian people for at least the last 75 years, arguably over 100. I'm not going to go through the history again, as I've banged on about it enough on this thread before, even as recently as on the previous couple of pages but it is utterly essential to have a basic grip of the history when attempting to discuss a solution. Reason being, is that America is the biggest, most powerful and most important piece on this chess board. Without America's unequivocal support, Israel is massively neutered in what it is able to do. Israel has repeatedly broken international law over many decades and it has more UN resolutions issued against it than all the of the other countries in the entire world put together, since the UN was founded but America has repeatedly vetoed those resolutions. If the American people and the American politicians (same in the UK) knew the history of what has taken place in Palestine over the last 75 years, then it would be far more difficult for them to show such tragic bias. Problem being, the Jewish lobby in America is supremely powerful and it is the role of organisations like AIPAC to maintain that universal ignorance (I'm being charitable here) to the nth degree. American foreign policy is the absolute key here. Create a fundamental change in American foreign policy and we create the conditions for genuine negotiations to begin. Without as much, anything else is futile. How do you negotiate the end to a turf war, when one has an AK47 but the other one only has a switchblade? The field has to be levelled if all actors are genuine about peace. Look how just this week, Israel has been allowed to drop (US made) 2,000 tonne bombs on a sovereign nation's capital, literally on residential tower blocks killing thousands of civilians and there's not a peep out of the West but then Iran launches precision attacks against Israeli air bases without any civilian casualties in retaliation and they're the spawn of the devil! In 1982 when Israel illegally started bombing Lebanon, Reagen picked up the phone and told Israel to cut it the fuck out and it stopped within hours. However over the last 40 years the Jewish lobby has grown far, far more powerful than it was back then. And this is the greatest threat to peace today. Such unequivocal backing from them, allows Netanyahu to feel emboldened to do just whatever the fuck he pleases. The PLO and then later Hezbollah and then Hamas were born out of a RESPONSE (this is hugely important) to state terrorism from Israel, they were left with nothing else to fight back with. And this in turn created a vacuum for the hardline Ismalists to come in and spread their despicable rhetoric and align themselves and in some cases take over the resistance fight. But bad faith actors in both Western politics and the Western media and ESPECIALLY in Israel want you to believe that this is how the conflict began. It isn't. Jewish Zionists introduced terrorism into the middle East as far back as the 1920's and three of its Prime Minister's were major players in these early paramilitary terrorist groups. Sorry, I'm actually starting to drift into the history of the conflict and I promised not to do that. Save to say, the ONLY way for peace talks to even begin is for there to be a fundamental shift in American foreign policy. The Arabs want peace but does Israel? Please watch ...
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 14:57:12 GMT
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gawa likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 14:57:12 GMT
Before any path to peace between Israel and the wider Palestinian people can commence, my own view is that the US, EU, Russia and China all need to accept that the Iranian Regime needs to be crippled and eliminated. Iran is funding all of the terrorist organisations in the area and is the main antagonist in the region. Iran is the only country stood to gain anything from instability in the region. Literally every other Arab and Gulf state in the vicinity of Iran suffers with body counts because of it. Wedded to that is, of course, Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied Territories. I think you're falling for propoganda 101 there mate. Iran has done more to fight Al Qaeda and ISIS than any country in the region. But they're the ones funding terrorism? They're not the ones finding side by side with Al Qaeda in Yemen. You might want to look towards the other side of the antlantic for that. It is however interesting that ISIS have started attacking Moscow in recent months. Irans biggest crime is having a revolution where they took back control of their country and their vast natural resources. Would you be as supportive of Iran if this conflict was happening in Latin America? And Iran had puppet governments setup to extract wealth from soverign nations through valuable resources? And Iran was arming and bankrolling their proxys against to fight any Latin America country who doesn't dare follow their orders? Despite the slave trade, the colonisation, the imperialistion etc.. our media does a great job in making people believe we are the "good guys" in every situation. Absolutely on the money gawa.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:00:41 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 15:00:41 GMT
I think you're falling for propoganda 101 there mate. Iran has done more to fight Al Qaeda and ISIS than any country in the region. But they're the ones funding terrorism? They're not the ones finding side by side with Al Qaeda in Yemen. You might want to look towards the other side of the antlantic for that. It is however interesting that ISIS have started attacking Moscow in recent months. Irans biggest crime is having a revolution where they took back control of their country and their vast natural resources. Would you be as supportive of Iran if this conflict was happening in Latin America? And Iran had puppet governments setup to extract wealth from soverign nations through valuable resources? And Iran was arming and bankrolling their proxys against to fight any Latin America country who doesn't dare follow their orders? Despite the slave trade, the colonisation, the imperialistion etc.. our media does a great job in making people believe we are the "good guys" in every situation. Absolutely on the money gawa. Thanks mate. Not sure if my claim Iran has done more to fight isis and Al qaeda is completely accurate as not sure how to quantify it. But a quick look at their conflict history shows they have being fighting them ALOT. Israel and the Saudis conveniently you could say dont have half the problems from them. Have Israel ever fought them?
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:12:23 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 3, 2024 15:12:23 GMT
People deliberately using a version of history to justify an outcomes is not helpful. Common ground is the only path to a solution.
In a situation like this where you have an ongoing bombardment and military engagement and offensive done by Israel at this point with the full support of the US and the full endorsement of European countries as well, the first thing you start with is the call for ceasefire. Even before the call for a ceasefire, and something that President Biden tried to achieve and failed at, is just a pathway corridor for humanitarian and medical relief to be delivered to the hospitals, to the families, to people who are without shelter. Corridors for humanitarian relief on the ground [and] calling for a ceasefire are the first two steps usually we introduce in these cases. Unfortunately, so far, the Israeli government has not agreed to both, whether it is humanitarian relief packages with medical relief or even food, have not agreed to that despite the intervention from the American government through the President, as well as the Foreign Minister or the Secretary of State. That's unfortunate, but I don't think we should lose faith. Looking at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, two or three years after every round there is another proposal for peace negotiations and for resolution of this conflict. The request for freedom and liberation, the request for living in dignity and security will not die, neither among Palestinians nor among Israelis. Unfortunately, we have not learned the lesson yet that military solutions are not effective and are not long-term arrangements for such demands.
At this point in time, the war is not really between Hamas and the Israeli military. Lebanon is thrown into the mix. The war has become a war between Israel and the Palestinian people all over the world — and now many people in the Arab and Muslim world. That in itself defeats the purpose of defeating terrorism and defeating Hamas and Hezbollah in general. We have to, again, go back to international law and international norms, call for a ceasefire, and stop the targeting of civilians and hospitals and schools and any other civilian targets.
People have a real dilemma in what type of position to take. Do you side with one side? Do you let your emotion drive your judgment? Or are people capable of stepping back and looking at the exchanges, at the dynamic of the conflict, and going back to the ethics of peace, to the norms of peacebuilding? Go back to the values of humanity and be able to identify a position that encourages and supports the humanity on the two sides rather than take, again, an uncritical, biased, blind position which some insist on doing.
To get to peace - a two state solution - we need to step back, look at the conflict from this perspective of peace, justice, and nonviolent resistance, and look at these values and how we can apply them to this situation. It's important to remember that terrorist organisation can never be seen to win, and yet accept that both sides have legitimate grievances - whether that's October 7th or the Occupied Territories.
The first application is to insist on a ceasefire, stop this madness of civilian bombardment, and definitely be able to see that the blockade around Gaza of no food, no water, no electricity, no internet communication, and no mobility — this is a form of ethnic cleansing. This is a preparation for genocide, which triggers more fears. We train our students how to respond to those basic fears of Palestinians as well as Israel. Right now the Israeli public is driven by its fear and by this existential threat that has been brought back by the attack of Hamas on Saturday, October 7. And the Israeli politicians and the Israeli media have cultivated that attack to trigger more and more existential fears. Unfortunately, during this period, we lose our judgment, and we lose our human values in caring for other people.
We get a solution by cultivating dialogue on peacebuilding and reconciliation amongst all parties and including all stakeholders- those with skin in the game. There are Israelis and there are Palestinians — and there are also American Jews — who work for peacebuilding and justice and freedom and also who stand against the occupation and the apartheid in the West Bank as well. You find the common ground and how both sides, Palestinian and Israeli peacemakers, can advance the notion of justice and freedom in their own respective communities. The experience of those on the ground during this period seems to be that working with those who are interested in peace, who are interested in dialogue, but on the principles of justice, freedom for all, and not only for one side - works.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:17:57 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 15:17:57 GMT
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:18:45 GMT
Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 15:18:45 GMT
Gone quiet.... anybody? Without a solution to this, there is no point complaining about Israels course of action. You can criticise their methods, but it doesn't provide a solution. It's excessive yes, abhorrent yes, but there is also no place for these two terror groups and you can't reasonably expect Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah to live peacefully next door to each other. How this conflict came to be and the history behind it is irrelevant if you seriously want to find a solution. So again, does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, to accept a long standing truce and two state solution? Mate at the risk of ending our truce, I'll have a crack ... Understanding how this conflict came to be and the history behind it, is absolutely VITAL if you seriously want to find a solution. The vast majority of the public and a great number of politicians don't know the history and indeed don't WANT to know the history. Anybody with even an ounce of human integrity, who believes that colonialism is wrong and understands the modern history of Palestine, also understands, that a grave injustice has been meted out on the Palestinian people for at least the last 75 years, arguably over 100. I'm not going to go through the history again, as I've banged on about it enough on this thread before, even as recently as on the previous couple of pages but it is utterly essential to have a basic grip of the history when attempting to discuss a solution. Reason being, is that America is the biggest, most powerful and most important piece on this chess board. Without America's unequivocal support, Israel is massively neutered in what it is able to do. Israel has repeatedly broken international law over many decades and it has more UN resolutions issued against it than all the of the other countries in the entire world put together, since the UN was founded but America has repeatedly vetoed those resolutions. If the American people and the American politicians (same in the UK) knew the history of what has taken place in Palestine over the last 75 years, then it would be far more difficult for them to show such tragic bias. Problem being, the Jewish lobby in America is supremely powerful and it is the role of organisations like AIPAC to maintain that universal ignorance (I'm being charitable here) to the nth degree. American foreign policy is the absolute key here. Create a fundamental change in American foreign policy and we create the conditions for genuine negotiations to begin. Without as much, anything else is futile. How do you end a turf war, when one has an AK47 but the other one only has a switchblade? The field has to be levelled if all actors are genuine about peace. Look how just this week, Israel has been allowed to drop (US made) 2,000 tonne bombs on a sovereign nation's capital, literally on residential tower blocks killing thousands of civilians and there's not a peep out of the West but then Iran launches precision attacks against Israeli air bases without any civilian casualties in retaliation and they're the spawn of the devil! In 1982 when Israel illegally started bombing Lebanon, Reagen picked up the phone and told Israel to cut it the fuck out and it stopped within hours. However over the last 40 years the Jewish lobby has grown far, far more powerful than it was back then. And this is the greatest threat to peace today. Such unequivocal backing from them, allows Netanyahu to feel emboldened to do just whatever the fuck he pleases. The PLO and then later Hezbollah and then Hamas were born out of a RESPONSE (this is hugely important) to state terrorism from Israel, they were left with nothing else to fight back with. And this in turn created a vacuum for the hardline Ismalists to come in and spread their despicable rhetoric and align themselves and in some cases take over the resistance fight. But bad faith actors in both Western politics and the Western media and ESPECIALLY in Israel want you to believe that this is how the conflict began. It isn't. Jewish Zionists introduced terrorism into the middle East as far back as the 1920's and three of its Prime Minister's were major players in these early paramilitary terrorist groups. Sorry, I'm actually starting to drift into the history of the conflict and I promised not to do that. Save to say, the ONLY way for peace talks to even begin is for there to be a fundamental shift in American foreign policy. The Arabs want peace but does Israel? Please watch ... Mate... we've gone 200+ pages and no one has come up with anything other than 'Israel bad, Palestine good'. The rhetoric has now changed to 'evil' vs 'good'. I don't condone anything Israel is doing but wiping out these terror groups is the only resort from what I can tell, unless someone can convince Hamas et al otherwise to accept Israel. The fixation on the history is what stops this from getting any nearer to a resolution imo. It's non stop blame which isn't going to help anyone. I agree on American policy but I see it as a stop gap short term solution. In x years it will be a repeat of now. I have no faith in politicians and I'm quite sure that Israel has massive influence over the West. What do you realistically expect from the US or elsewhere. It's a kill or be killed scenario I'm afraid.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2024 15:19:23 GMT
Jaundiced? Looking at it only from one perspective? Really? I've repeatedly condemned Isreal for some of their actions and I've also condemned Hamas for some of there's. To my knowledge you haven't once accepted that the state of Isreal has the right to defend itself. So once again 2 very simple and straightforward questions: 1 Is Hezbollah a terrorist organisation, backed by the Iranian regime, whose key objective is to eradicate the state of Isreal. 2 Has the state of Isreal the right to take action against those threatening its very existence. Simple yes or no - no deflection and petty name calling. Look if you actually took the time to open the links I provide you with, you wouldn't even need to ask such ridiculous questions. And if you want to have a grown up conversation, it maybe better to step back, have a breather and not construct such obviously biased questions. In doing so, you're kind of making my point about your jaundiced perspective, for me. Indeed you're not very far away from ... 1) Is Israel a terrorist state, backed by the USA, who's key objective is to eradicate Palestine? 2) Do the Palestinians have the right to take action against those threatening their very existence? Now I'm not the one asking those questions but can you now see, that just by switching the main protagonists around, how biased YOUR ones actually are? And of course, there's nothing wrong in showing that bias but please, at least be honest about it. You are doing it again - avoiding a straight question and claiming you have already answered it in a series of random twitter quotes. For once just answer the question. I might well be biased but at least give got the balls to clearly state what I believe. I'm not the one deliberately obscuring my biases - you are. In terms of switching around protagonists that's laughable. This entire exchange has been about Hezbollah and Iran and its you who have now tried to make it about Pakestine! I will at least answer your questions: 1 Palestine does not exist. Your question makes no sense. 2 Palestinians do have the right to defend themselves and use all political means to have their plight recognised and addressed. They do not have the right to commit terrorist atrocities to acheive those ends. Now answer my questions.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:29:17 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 3, 2024 15:29:17 GMT
Thanks mate. Not sure if my claim Iran has done more to fight isis and Al qaeda is completely accurate as not sure how to quantify it. But a quick look at their conflict history shows they have being fighting them ALOT. Israel and the Saudis conveniently you could say dont have half the problems from them. Have Israel ever fought them? We're you saying that Iran can't be funders of terrorism because they fought ISIS?
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Oct 3, 2024 15:33:27 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 15:33:27 GMT
Thanks mate. Not sure if my claim Iran has done more to fight isis and Al qaeda is completely accurate as not sure how to quantify it. But a quick look at their conflict history shows they have being fighting them ALOT. Israel and the Saudis conveniently you could say dont have half the problems from them. Have Israel ever fought them? We're you saying that Iran can't be funders of terrorism because they fought ISIS? Nope not at all. I've made lots of posts and never once said that. Strange conclusion to draw. Are USA funding terrorism? Or do you consider the flattening of Gaza and 10s of thousands of women and children dying in carpet bombs not terrorism?
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:41:23 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 15:41:23 GMT
Look if you actually took the time to open the links I provide you with, you wouldn't even need to ask such ridiculous questions. And if you want to have a grown up conversation, it maybe better to step back, have a breather and not construct such obviously biased questions. In doing so, you're kind of making my point about your jaundiced perspective, for me. Indeed you're not very far away from ... 1) Is Israel a terrorist state, backed by the USA, who's key objective is to eradicate Palestine? 2) Do the Palestinians have the right to take action against those threatening their very existence? Now I'm not the one asking those questions but can you now see, that just by switching the main protagonists around, how biased YOUR ones actually are? And of course, there's nothing wrong in showing that bias but please, at least be honest about it. You are doing it again - avoiding a straight question and claiming you have already answered it in a series of random twitter quotes. For once just answer the question. I might well be biased but at least give got the balls to clearly state what I believe. I'm not the one deliberately obscuring my biases - you are. In terms of switching around protagonists that's laughable. This entire exchange has been about Hezbollah and Iran and its you who have now tried to make it about Pakestine! I will at least answer your questions: 1 Palestine does not exist. Your question makes no sense. 2 Palestinians do have the right to defend themselves and use all political means to have their plight recognised and addressed. They do not have the right to commit terrorist atrocities to acheive those ends. Now answer my questions. You're an intelligent bloke, so I assume your bias has completely got the better of you. I've simply taken your ridiculous questions and demonstrated just how pathetically biased they are, by substituting Israel for Palestine in the appropriate places. If you're unable to see that this was the actual purpose of the exercise, then I fear for how much your objectivity has been compromised. Would I treat you with such little respect, as to ask you such loaded (and thus worthless) questions? Of course I wouldn't. I'm not sure if it's me or yourself, who you have such little respect for. Oh and as for 'what I actually believe' ... there's a massive long post (one of many on this thread) at the top of this very page! Jeez ...
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Oct 3, 2024 15:46:15 GMT
Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 15:46:15 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone. Who are these 4 or 5 mate? Lebanon, Lebabnob, Labanobanob, Lebnob and Nobleb?
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:49:00 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 3, 2024 15:49:00 GMT
We're you saying that Iran can't be funders of terrorism because they fought ISIS? Nope not at all. I've made lots of posts and never once said that. Strange conclusion to draw. Are USA funding terrorism? Or do you consider the flattening of Gaza and 10s of thousands of women and children dying in carpet bombs not terrorism? I was asking for clarification on this bit, it could be interpreted as implying Iran doesn't fund terrorism. Do you mean that they shouldn't be called out for funding terrorism? Or that every time it's mentioned, we need to whataboutamerica? Or something else? Iran has done more to fight Al Qaeda and ISIS than any country in the region. But they're the ones funding terrorism?
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 15:58:34 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 3, 2024 15:58:34 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone. Iran does not need to invade other countries to achieve its aims. Iran merely sets up, establish, fund and give weapons to proxy terrorist groups and governments across its sphere of influence in order to intimidate and deliberately antagonise its enemies (i.e. most notably Israel). These are (most notably) Hamas (Gaza), Hezbollah (Lebanon & Bahrain), Homeland Justice (Albania), Shi'ite Militias (Iraq), Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force (Kenya), Bosnian Mujahideen, Taliban, Al Quaeda, Al-Ashtar Brigades (Bahrain), Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq & Badr Organisation (Iraq), Harakat al-Nujaba (Iraq), Gulf Cooperation Council, Houthis (Yemen), the Yemen Alimi led government, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Gaza), Kata'ib Hizballah (Iraq), Liwa Fatemiyoun (Syria), Saraya al-Mukhtar (Bahrain)
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 16:12:17 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 3, 2024 16:12:17 GMT
Looks like Israel hit something inside a... Russian controlled airbase in Syria? The other rumours are that something arrived from Iran just before. Turns out the video doesn't show the hit was inside the russian airbase, just that the airbase was in the area. Will have to wait and see.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 16:15:49 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 16:15:49 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone. Iran does not need to invade other countries to achieve its aims. Iran merely sets up, establish, fund and give weapons to proxy terrorist groups and governments across its sphere of influence in order to intimidate and deliberately antagonise its enemies (i.e. most notably Israel). These are (most notably) Hamas (Gaza), Hezbollah (Lebanon & Bahrain), Homeland Justice (Albania), Shi'ite Militias (Iraq), Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force (Kenya), Bosnian Mujahideen, Taliban, Al Quaeda, Al-Ashtar Brigades (Bahrain), Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq & Badr Organisation (Iraq), Harakat al-Nujaba (Iraq), Gulf Cooperation Council, Houthis (Yemen), the Yemen Alimi led government, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Gaza), Kata'ib Hizballah (Iraq), Liwa Fatemiyoun (Syria), Saraya al-Mukhtar (Bahrain) We're the houthis formed because they want to eradicate Israel too? Along with all these other groups were they also formed for that purpose? Or is it only the groups who resist Israel terrorism which want to eradicate Israel? Does that mean Houthis want to eradicate Yemen? Or do we just pretend that everyone wants to eradicate Israel to justify its war crimes? So if they aren't the ones funding ISIS and Al Qaeda. Who is mate? What sort of weapons do ISIS and Al Qaeda use? Which country do they usually originate from? The west seems very good at telling us all about these organisations funded by Iran because Iran just wants to cause devastation and terror. But it's ISIS and Al Qaeda who are always hitting the headlines. How do these continue to operate without funding from somewhere? I thought those terrorist groups were Muslim extremists who want us all under sharia law. So why are most of their attacks on fellow Muslims while Israel just gets completely avoided. Bit weird if you ask me. But then so was 9/11 and George Bush reaction. That was their one attack on America wasn't it? And look at the invasion and war which came off the back of it. I wonder if they could ever have justified an offensive without it.
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Oct 3, 2024 16:18:06 GMT
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Post by serpico on Oct 3, 2024 16:18:06 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone. Iran does not need to invade other countries to achieve its aims. Iran merely sets up, establish, fund and give weapons to proxy terrorist groups and governments across its sphere of influence in order to intimidate and deliberately antagonise its enemies (i.e. most notably Israel). These are (most notably) Hamas (Gaza), Hezbollah (Lebanon & Bahrain), Homeland Justice (Albania), Shi'ite Militias (Iraq), Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force (Kenya), Bosnian Mujahideen, Taliban, Al Quaeda, Al-Ashtar Brigades (Bahrain), Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq & Badr Organisation (Iraq), Harakat al-Nujaba (Iraq), Gulf Cooperation Council, Houthis (Yemen), the Yemen Alimi led government, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Gaza), Kata'ib Hizballah (Iraq), Liwa Fatemiyoun (Syria), Saraya al-Mukhtar (Bahrain) When did Iran use Al Qeada as a proxy ? … does Iran feel it has to have a sphere of influence due to what happened in 1953 ?
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Oct 3, 2024 16:32:41 GMT
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Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 16:32:41 GMT
Iran does not need to invade other countries to achieve its aims. Iran merely sets up, establish, fund and give weapons to proxy terrorist groups and governments across its sphere of influence in order to intimidate and deliberately antagonise its enemies (i.e. most notably Israel). These are (most notably) Hamas (Gaza), Hezbollah (Lebanon & Bahrain), Homeland Justice (Albania), Shi'ite Militias (Iraq), Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force (Kenya), Bosnian Mujahideen, Taliban, Al Quaeda, Al-Ashtar Brigades (Bahrain), Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq & Badr Organisation (Iraq), Harakat al-Nujaba (Iraq), Gulf Cooperation Council, Houthis (Yemen), the Yemen Alimi led government, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (Gaza), Kata'ib Hizballah (Iraq), Liwa Fatemiyoun (Syria), Saraya al-Mukhtar (Bahrain) When did Iran use Al Qeada as a proxy ? … does Iran feel it has to have a sphere of influence due to what happened in 1953 ? Totally fucked up if Iran is using sunni proxis. Western countries are better off staying out of this mess.
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Post by serpico on Oct 3, 2024 16:40:42 GMT
When did Iran use Al Qeada as a proxy ? … does Iran feel it has to have a sphere of influence due to what happened in 1953 ? Totally fucked up if Iran is using sunni proxis. Western countries are better off staying out of this mess. I’ve never seen any evidence Iran has ties with AQ, I’ve seen plenty of neocons make the claim but never anything credible.
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
A very short issue to watch video with multiple sources referenced throughout.
One for the "Israel is just defending itself because everyone else wants to eradicate it" crowd.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 17:44:33 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 17:44:33 GMT
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 18:00:29 GMT
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gawa likes this
Post by serpico on Oct 3, 2024 18:00:29 GMT
That doesn’t surprise me, Israel is particularly big on spying on allies (see the Fox News clip I posted a few pages back!) Israel spies in and on the US more than any other nation.
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Post by sticky on Oct 3, 2024 19:22:49 GMT
This threads quite an interesting read, and highlights how this issue will never be solved. Differing opinions (both well argued) on a Stoke City message board miles away from the conflict, and those opinions won’t be swayed. One can only imagine how entrenched folk are in the Middle East, there just seems no solution in sight does there really
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 3, 2024 19:30:10 GMT
The Prime Minister the day before yesterday on tv, and our social minister as well: "The antisemitism must come to an end. It's mostly a threat from the left sided politicians around Europe." Utter bollocks is what that is…..
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Oct 3, 2024 19:37:12 GMT
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 3, 2024 19:37:12 GMT
The last time Iran invaded a foreign country was in 1856 during the Anglo Persian wars. How many countries have America, Britain and Israel invaded since then mtrstudent? I think Israel is on around 4 or 5 in the last 12 months alone. That's only because they can't and spent a fair proportion of that time aligned with the West. They fund, operate and generally facilitate multiple proxy wars. They can't do it on their own land. They'd get obliterated. They supply near enough a tenth of a billion in weapons to terrorists. They have their dirty mits on bombings all over the world (Thailand etc..) To just make a sweeping comment they are innocent is just bollocks. As much as you don't like it. It's genuinely us against them.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 3, 2024 19:43:34 GMT
This threads quite an interesting read, and highlights how this issue will never be solved. Differing opinions (both well argued) on a Stoke City message board miles away from the conflict, and those opinions won’t be swayed. One can only imagine how entrenched folk are in the Middle East, there just seems no solution in sight does there really You have to have hope. Northern Ireland, the Peruvian-Ecudorean border dispute, Congo, Cyprus, Mozambique all ended up with some form of peaceful resolution after years of aggression. A different Israeli government, a more moderate Iranian regime may be on the horizon they may not, but those close to both parties should be doing much more to move things forward whether that be by diplomacy alone or by forcing their hands in other ways……
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Post by musik on Oct 3, 2024 20:13:36 GMT
The Prime Minister the day before yesterday on tv, and our social minister as well: "The antisemitism must come to an end. It's mostly a threat from the left sided politicians around Europe." Utter bollocks is what that is….. The Prime Minister is from M (The Conservatives) and the Social Minister is from KD (The Christ Democrats), so they're both part of our right sided government. SD (The Sweden Democrats) who aren't technically within the government, but the government are totally dependent on them, say they aren't surprised. Probably since they saw Hitler prior to the National Election here in 2024 as a socialist and not on the right side. The Liberals, also a part of our government, haven't made any comments.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 20:16:35 GMT
via mobile
gawa likes this
Post by musik on Oct 3, 2024 20:16:35 GMT
When I wake up tomorrow preparing for my X-rays I want to read on text tv here ALL WARS ARE OVER.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 20:34:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 20:34:16 GMT
Not sure if there is any likelihood in this transpiring but no doubt we will feel the consequences once again. The demand doesn't change but the suppliers will profiteer off it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 20:53:38 GMT
This is hugely significant and I hope to god that it is true, albeit a worry that Jordan isn't on this list ...
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