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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 2, 2024 22:31:17 GMT
This short 10 minute video provides vital context in explaining how we have arrived at where we are today and demonstrates clearly, how Israel has completely (and successfully) infiltrated Western government's and Western mainstream media over the last 40 years. I remember it like it was yesterday, the world was rightfully horrified and outraged ... gawa
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 22:47:27 GMT
My guy
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Israel
Oct 2, 2024 22:58:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 2, 2024 22:58:33 GMT
The stated aim of Hezbollah and the current regime in Iran is to eradicate Isreal as a nation state. And given the chance that is exactly what they will do. I am not condoning the actions of the Isreali government in relation to the Palestinians and the people of Lebanon but that is the stark reality behind the conflict. So how do you resolve a conflict where one side is determined to eradicate the other? The more radical the Israeli regime the more radical it's opponents. We had a moderate Iranian regime not that long ago when we could have built bridges and chose not to. The starting point has to be a pathway to ending the occupation and a two state solution. It will take a brave Israeli leader to start the ball rolling...... I agree regarding the need for a two state solution but that will not resolve the broader issue with Hezbollah and Iran. Hezbollah was founded on the principle of eradicating the state of Isreal, the Iran regime funds, arms and supports the aims of Hezbollah and that predates the Netenyahu regime. The idea that Isreal have provoked Hezbollah and Iran to seek their eradication is nonsense. They have provoked a response but the thing that provoked their opposition to the existence of Isreal was the very existence of Isreal. I am not saying that all the citizens of Iran and Lebanon want to eradicate Isreal but the current regime in Iran and Hezbollah do. Making out they are innocents drawn into a fight they didn't want is utter bollocks.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 2, 2024 23:17:11 GMT
The more radical the Israeli regime the more radical it's opponents. We had a moderate Iranian regime not that long ago when we could have built bridges and chose not to. The starting point has to be a pathway to ending the occupation and a two state solution. It will take a brave Israeli leader to start the ball rolling...... I agree regarding the need for a two state solution but that will not resolve the broader issue with Hezbollah and Iran. Hezbollah was founded on the principle of eradicating the state of Isreal, the Iran regime funds, arms and supports the aims of Hezbollah and that predates the Netenyahu regime. The idea that Isreal have provoked Hezbollah and Iran to seek their eradication is nonsense. They have provoked a response but the thing that provoked their opposition to the existence of Isreal was the very existence of Isreal. I am not saying that all the citizens of Iran and Lebanon want to eradicate Isreal but the current regime in Iran and Hezbollah do. Making out they are innocents drawn into a fight they didn't want is utter bollocks. What led to the creation of Hezbollah, you make it sound like they just randomly woke up one morning and decided to start hating on Israel? If you watch the short video I posted at the top of this page, that newsreal is from THREE years BEFORE Hezbollah was even created.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 23:17:20 GMT
The more radical the Israeli regime the more radical it's opponents. We had a moderate Iranian regime not that long ago when we could have built bridges and chose not to. The starting point has to be a pathway to ending the occupation and a two state solution. It will take a brave Israeli leader to start the ball rolling...... I agree regarding the need for a two state solution but that will not resolve the broader issue with Hezbollah and Iran. Hezbollah was founded on the principle of eradicating the state of Isreal, the Iran regime funds, arms and supports the aims of Hezbollah and that predates the Netenyahu regime. The idea that Isreal have provoked Hezbollah and Iran to seek their eradication is nonsense. They have provoked a response but the thing that provoked their opposition to the existence of Isreal was the very existence of Isreal. I am not saying that all the citizens of Iran and Lebanon want to eradicate Isreal but the current regime in Iran and Hezbollah do. Making out they are innocents drawn into a fight they didn't want is utter bollocks. Well…Israel did literally provoke Hezbollah into existence given it was established primarily to fight the 1978 and 1982 Israeli invasions and incursions into Lebanon. Since then Hezbollah has factored in the complete expulsion of all Western influences, the total destruction of Israel, emphatic allegiance to Iran's supreme leader, and the establishment of an Iran-influenced Islamist government, all while emphasising Lebanese self-determination. I guess one can debate the rights and wrongs of both sides around this particular conflict; but Israel has decided to enter southern Lebanon so it can return its displaced citizens to the north of Israel whilst also mitigating what `Israel thinks will be an October 7th style attack from Hezbollah in the north of Israel (in 2006 UN Resolution 1701, which ended the 2006 war, called on Israeli troops to withdraw from southern Lebanon to an area in the Golan Heights below what is known as the Blue Line, and for Hezbollah to withdraw north of the Litani River, which runs south of the Awali - Hezbollah never retreated).
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 23:55:12 GMT
Once upon a time in a land called Middle Earth, there were many families who lived on neighboring lands, some peacefully, and others with tension brewing just beneath the surface. The land was full of opportunities but also plagued by disputes over property, power, and resources. The most influential of them all was a man named **Andy**, who lived hundreds of miles away but always found a way to interfere in Middle Earth's affairs. Andy was immensely wealthy and had a habit of sending money and weapons to his distant relative **Isiah**.
**Isiah**, a powerful and wealthy man himself, had originally acquired his land in Middle Earth thanks to Andy's help. Years ago, when Isiah's family had run into trouble, Andy had gifted him land that didn’t belong to him—it was actually the ancestral home of **Paul**’s family. Paul, who had lived in Middle Earth all his life, had hoped to live in peace with his new neighbor, but Isiah soon became a nightmare.
Isiah, backed by Andy’s endless flow of resources, began taking more and more of Paul's land. At first, Paul tried to reason with him, but Isiah wasn’t interested in being a good neighbor. He vandalized Paul's property, destroyed his crops, and even cut off Paul’s access to water and electricity. As time went on, Isiah's attacks grew more violent—he started using weapons from Andy, killing members of Paul’s family, and turning what used to be a peaceful home into a war zone.
Paul’s son, **Harry**, had grown up watching his family suffer under Isiah's cruelty. He wasn’t perfect—he had made mistakes of his own—but his rage was born out of seeing his family’s pain. In a desperate attempt to protect what little remained, Harry began to fight back. But what could Harry do against Isiah’s arsenal of guns, tanks, and missiles, all supplied by Andy? Isiah had even built a massive dome over his property, making Harry’s retaliation seem like little more than throwing pebbles at a fortress.
To the north of Isiah lived **Larry**, another neighbor who watched all of this with growing concern. Isiah’s family had already vandalized some of Larry’s land, and Larry feared his family might be next to suffer like Paul’s. His son, **Henry**, much like Harry, decided to defend their property. But their attempts to stand up to Isiah felt hopeless—Isiah was too powerful, with Andy’s constant support bolstering him at every turn.
Meanwhile, in another part of Middle Earth, lived **Ian**, who had his own history with Andy. Many years ago, Ian’s land had been exploited by Andy’s direct relatives, with Andy stealing the best resources. Ian had fought hard to drive Andy's influence away and had since lived relatively peacefully. Seeing Paul and Larry’s struggles against Isiah, Ian couldn’t help but feel sympathetic. He remembered what it was like to be oppressed by Andy’s greed and decided to offer support to Harry and Henry, helping them resist Isiah in any way he could.
As all of this played out, something troubling began to happen. Andy and Isiah’s families had grown immensely powerful—not just in wealth and weapons, but also in the realm of ideas. Through their control of media, journalism, and social platforms, they controlled the narrative in Middle Earth. Anytime someone spoke out against Isiah’s tyranny, Andy’s family would brand them as bully sympathizers, accusing them of spreading fake news. The truth was drowned out by Andy and Isiah’s propaganda, and many in Middle Earth started to believe that Harry and Henry were the aggressors, rather than victims responding to years of abuse.
Isiah’s family, with Andy’s backing, used their influence to twist the story. They framed Paul and Larry’s children as dangerous troublemakers, conveniently ignoring the years of suffering Isiah had inflicted on them. The media portrayed Isiah as a protector, even as he used missiles, tanks, and all sorts of force without care, destroying lives with impunity. They painted him as a hero defending his home, never mentioning that it was a home built on stolen land. And the dome—impenetrable and vast—stood as a symbol of his arrogance, shielding him from any consequences.
Despite the massive imbalance of power, Andy and Isiah insisted that anyone who challenged them was part of a conspiracy, part of a malicious effort to undermine them. They claimed they were the real victims, even as Paul, Larry, and their families struggled to survive. While all neighbors in Middle Earth had their disagreements, the way Isiah treated Paul and Larry was inhumane, unlike any of the normal squabbles neighbors might have.
In the end, Paul and Larry's families had little choice but to keep resisting, knowing that their retaliation, however justified, could never match the sheer force of Isiah's power. They knew that without change, without the truth coming to light, Middle Earth would remain a land of injustice, controlled by those who had the money, the weapons, and the ability to shape the story however they pleased.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 0:51:48 GMT
Post by wannabee on Oct 3, 2024 0:51:48 GMT
I think someone's been on the Ale
Oh! You can search far and wide You can drink the whole town dry But you’ll never find a beer so brown As the one we drink in our hometown. You can drink your fancy ales You can drink ‘em by the flagon But the only beer for the brave and true Comes from the Green Dragon!
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 3, 2024 4:57:49 GMT
Looks like Israel hit something inside a... Russian controlled airbase in Syria? The other rumours are that something arrived from Iran just before.
There's a little pleasure in this. Russia has murdered civilians in Syria like mad with an untargeted bombing campaign that makes Israel look surgical.
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Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 5:13:30 GMT
Once upon a time in a land called Middle Earth, there were many families who lived on neighboring lands, some peacefully, and others with tension brewing just beneath the surface. The land was full of opportunities but also plagued by disputes over property, power, and resources. The most influential of them all was a man named **Andy**, who lived hundreds of miles away but always found a way to interfere in Middle Earth's affairs. Andy was immensely wealthy and had a habit of sending money and weapons to his distant relative **Isiah**. **Isiah**, a powerful and wealthy man himself, had originally acquired his land in Middle Earth thanks to Andy's help. Years ago, when Isiah's family had run into trouble, Andy had gifted him land that didn’t belong to him—it was actually the ancestral home of **Paul**’s family. Paul, who had lived in Middle Earth all his life, had hoped to live in peace with his new neighbor, but Isiah soon became a nightmare. Isiah, backed by Andy’s endless flow of resources, began taking more and more of Paul's land. At first, Paul tried to reason with him, but Isiah wasn’t interested in being a good neighbor. He vandalized Paul's property, destroyed his crops, and even cut off Paul’s access to water and electricity. As time went on, Isiah's attacks grew more violent—he started using weapons from Andy, killing members of Paul’s family, and turning what used to be a peaceful home into a war zone. Paul’s son, **Harry**, had grown up watching his family suffer under Isiah's cruelty. He wasn’t perfect—he had made mistakes of his own—but his rage was born out of seeing his family’s pain. In a desperate attempt to protect what little remained, Harry began to fight back. But what could Harry do against Isiah’s arsenal of guns, tanks, and missiles, all supplied by Andy? Isiah had even built a massive dome over his property, making Harry’s retaliation seem like little more than throwing pebbles at a fortress. To the north of Isiah lived **Larry**, another neighbor who watched all of this with growing concern. Isiah’s family had already vandalized some of Larry’s land, and Larry feared his family might be next to suffer like Paul’s. His son, **Henry**, much like Harry, decided to defend their property. But their attempts to stand up to Isiah felt hopeless—Isiah was too powerful, with Andy’s constant support bolstering him at every turn. Meanwhile, in another part of Middle Earth, lived **Ian**, who had his own history with Andy. Many years ago, Ian’s land had been exploited by Andy’s direct relatives, with Andy stealing the best resources. Ian had fought hard to drive Andy's influence away and had since lived relatively peacefully. Seeing Paul and Larry’s struggles against Isiah, Ian couldn’t help but feel sympathetic. He remembered what it was like to be oppressed by Andy’s greed and decided to offer support to Harry and Henry, helping them resist Isiah in any way he could. As all of this played out, something troubling began to happen. Andy and Isiah’s families had grown immensely powerful—not just in wealth and weapons, but also in the realm of ideas. Through their control of media, journalism, and social platforms, they controlled the narrative in Middle Earth. Anytime someone spoke out against Isiah’s tyranny, Andy’s family would brand them as bully sympathizers, accusing them of spreading fake news. The truth was drowned out by Andy and Isiah’s propaganda, and many in Middle Earth started to believe that Harry and Henry were the aggressors, rather than victims responding to years of abuse. Isiah’s family, with Andy’s backing, used their influence to twist the story. They framed Paul and Larry’s children as dangerous troublemakers, conveniently ignoring the years of suffering Isiah had inflicted on them. The media portrayed Isiah as a protector, even as he used missiles, tanks, and all sorts of force without care, destroying lives with impunity. They painted him as a hero defending his home, never mentioning that it was a home built on stolen land. And the dome—impenetrable and vast—stood as a symbol of his arrogance, shielding him from any consequences. Despite the massive imbalance of power, Andy and Isiah insisted that anyone who challenged them was part of a conspiracy, part of a malicious effort to undermine them. They claimed they were the real victims, even as Paul, Larry, and their families struggled to survive. While all neighbors in Middle Earth had their disagreements, the way Isiah treated Paul and Larry was inhumane, unlike any of the normal squabbles neighbors might have. In the end, Paul and Larry's families had little choice but to keep resisting, knowing that their retaliation, however justified, could never match the sheer force of Isiah's power. They knew that without change, without the truth coming to light, Middle Earth would remain a land of injustice, controlled by those who had the money, the weapons, and the ability to shape the story however they pleased. Doesn't really sit right with me that you've kept a typical Jewish name as the main bad guy but then subbed out Arabic names as the portrayed victims for common English names. Why not replace all names with those of a similar origin? It's just subliminal messaging, aiming to relate Palestinians (including Hamas and Hezbollah terror groups) to Westerners, whilst all the while retaining Israelis as the bad guys. ...and if you're going to use to use middle earth as the location then you should have used names from Lord of the Rings.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 7:39:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2024 7:39:59 GMT
I agree regarding the need for a two state solution but that will not resolve the broader issue with Hezbollah and Iran. Hezbollah was founded on the principle of eradicating the state of Isreal, the Iran regime funds, arms and supports the aims of Hezbollah and that predates the Netenyahu regime. The idea that Isreal have provoked Hezbollah and Iran to seek their eradication is nonsense. They have provoked a response but the thing that provoked their opposition to the existence of Isreal was the very existence of Isreal. I am not saying that all the citizens of Iran and Lebanon want to eradicate Isreal but the current regime in Iran and Hezbollah do. Making out they are innocents drawn into a fight they didn't want is utter bollocks. What led to the creation of Hezbollah, you make it sound like they just randomly woke up one morning and decided to start hating on Israel? If you watch the short video I posted at the top of this page, that newsreal is from THREE years BEFORE Hezbollah was even created. The original post I replied to was asking what the endgame of the protagonists in this conflict is. Regardless of why or when Hezbollah came into existence the fact is it was founded, with the explicit support of the regime in Iran, in order to seek the eradication of the state of Isreal. And before Hezbollah was formed there already were people who were committed to eradicating the state of Isreal - Hezbollah is just an organised manifestation of that agenda. So my question remains - given the stated aim of Hezbollah is the eradication of the state of Isreal how does this end? It strikes me there are three options: 1 Hezbollah succeed in eradicating the state of Isreal. Unlikely given Isreal's military strength and the backing it gets fron the West and the West is not going to walk away and let that happen. 2 Isreal succeeds in its ground offensive and eradicates Hezbollah. Unlikely - it may significantly weaken it but is unlikely to eradicate it. 3 There is a regime change in Isreal, there is a reconciliation with the Palestinians and Hezbollah disbands itself. Lovely idea, not going to happen - the commitment to eradicating the state of Isreal runs deep. This conflict is going to run for generations. The best that can happen is that some form of accord between the Jewish and Muslim communities in Isreal, those dedicated to eradicating the state of Isreal get marginalised, the Lebonese people turn on Hezbollah and remove them from positions of power and there is a regime change in Iran. Regardless of the atrocities, deception and manipulation undertaken by the state of Isreal the question remains does the State of Isreal have the right to fight in order to maintain its existence against an enemy dedicated to its eradication and should the West support them in so doing? For me it is yes on both counts but that does not mean I support what the Isreali government is doing to the people of Palestine and tbe Lebanon. So Paul and others, simple question - does the state of Isreal have the right to exist and do they have right to defend themselves against groups whose stated aim is to eradicate it?
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 7:49:41 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 3, 2024 7:49:41 GMT
What led to the creation of Hezbollah, you make it sound like they just randomly woke up one morning and decided to start hating on Israel? If you watch the short video I posted at the top of this page, that newsreal is from THREE years BEFORE Hezbollah was even created. The original post I replied to was asking what the endgame of the protagonists in this conflict is. Regardless of why or when Hezbollah came into existence the fact is it was founded, with the explicit support of the regime in Iran, in order to seek the eradication of the state of Isreal. And before Hezbollah was formed there already were people who were committed to eradicating the state of Isreal - Hezbollah is just an organised manifestation of that agenda. So my question remains - given the stated aim of Hezbollah is the eradication of the state of Isreal how does this end? It strikes me there are three options: 1 Hezbollah succeed in eradicating the state of Isreal. Unlikely given Isreal's military strength and the backing it gets fron the West and the West is not going to walk away and let that happen. 2 Isreal succeeds in its ground offensive and eradicates Hezbollah. Unlikely - it may significantly weaken it but is unlikely to eradicate it. 3 There is a regime change in Isreal, there is a reconciliation with the Palestinians and Hezbollah disbands itself. Lovely idea, not going to happen - the commitment to eradicating the state of Isreal runs deep. This conflict is going to run for generations. The best that can happen is that some form of accord between the Jewish and Muslim communities in Isreal, those dedicated to eradicating the state of Isreal get marginalised, the Lebonese people turn on Hezbollah and remove them from positions of power and there is a regime change in Iran. Regardless of the atrocities, deception and manipulation undertaken by the state of Isreal the question remains does the State of Isreal have the right to fight in order to maintain its existence against an enemy dedicated to its eradication and should the West support them in so doing? For me it is yes on both counts but that does not mean I support what the Isreali government is doing to the people of Palestine and tbe Lebanon. So Paul and others, simple question - does the state of Israel have the right to exist and do they have right to defend themselves against groups whose stated aim is to eradicate it?Yes. Israel and its people has/have a legitimate right to exist as much as Kosovans, Ukrainians or anyone else. Anyone arguing against that is part of the problem, rather than the solution.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 8:03:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 8:03:27 GMT
Once upon a time in a land called Middle Earth, there were many families who lived on neighboring lands, some peacefully, and others with tension brewing just beneath the surface. The land was full of opportunities but also plagued by disputes over property, power, and resources. The most influential of them all was a man named **Andy**, who lived hundreds of miles away but always found a way to interfere in Middle Earth's affairs. Andy was immensely wealthy and had a habit of sending money and weapons to his distant relative **Isiah**. **Isiah**, a powerful and wealthy man himself, had originally acquired his land in Middle Earth thanks to Andy's help. Years ago, when Isiah's family had run into trouble, Andy had gifted him land that didn’t belong to him—it was actually the ancestral home of **Paul**’s family. Paul, who had lived in Middle Earth all his life, had hoped to live in peace with his new neighbor, but Isiah soon became a nightmare. Isiah, backed by Andy’s endless flow of resources, began taking more and more of Paul's land. At first, Paul tried to reason with him, but Isiah wasn’t interested in being a good neighbor. He vandalized Paul's property, destroyed his crops, and even cut off Paul’s access to water and electricity. As time went on, Isiah's attacks grew more violent—he started using weapons from Andy, killing members of Paul’s family, and turning what used to be a peaceful home into a war zone. Paul’s son, **Harry**, had grown up watching his family suffer under Isiah's cruelty. He wasn’t perfect—he had made mistakes of his own—but his rage was born out of seeing his family’s pain. In a desperate attempt to protect what little remained, Harry began to fight back. But what could Harry do against Isiah’s arsenal of guns, tanks, and missiles, all supplied by Andy? Isiah had even built a massive dome over his property, making Harry’s retaliation seem like little more than throwing pebbles at a fortress. To the north of Isiah lived **Larry**, another neighbor who watched all of this with growing concern. Isiah’s family had already vandalized some of Larry’s land, and Larry feared his family might be next to suffer like Paul’s. His son, **Henry**, much like Harry, decided to defend their property. But their attempts to stand up to Isiah felt hopeless—Isiah was too powerful, with Andy’s constant support bolstering him at every turn. Meanwhile, in another part of Middle Earth, lived **Ian**, who had his own history with Andy. Many years ago, Ian’s land had been exploited by Andy’s direct relatives, with Andy stealing the best resources. Ian had fought hard to drive Andy's influence away and had since lived relatively peacefully. Seeing Paul and Larry’s struggles against Isiah, Ian couldn’t help but feel sympathetic. He remembered what it was like to be oppressed by Andy’s greed and decided to offer support to Harry and Henry, helping them resist Isiah in any way he could. As all of this played out, something troubling began to happen. Andy and Isiah’s families had grown immensely powerful—not just in wealth and weapons, but also in the realm of ideas. Through their control of media, journalism, and social platforms, they controlled the narrative in Middle Earth. Anytime someone spoke out against Isiah’s tyranny, Andy’s family would brand them as bully sympathizers, accusing them of spreading fake news. The truth was drowned out by Andy and Isiah’s propaganda, and many in Middle Earth started to believe that Harry and Henry were the aggressors, rather than victims responding to years of abuse. Isiah’s family, with Andy’s backing, used their influence to twist the story. They framed Paul and Larry’s children as dangerous troublemakers, conveniently ignoring the years of suffering Isiah had inflicted on them. The media portrayed Isiah as a protector, even as he used missiles, tanks, and all sorts of force without care, destroying lives with impunity. They painted him as a hero defending his home, never mentioning that it was a home built on stolen land. And the dome—impenetrable and vast—stood as a symbol of his arrogance, shielding him from any consequences. Despite the massive imbalance of power, Andy and Isiah insisted that anyone who challenged them was part of a conspiracy, part of a malicious effort to undermine them. They claimed they were the real victims, even as Paul, Larry, and their families struggled to survive. While all neighbors in Middle Earth had their disagreements, the way Isiah treated Paul and Larry was inhumane, unlike any of the normal squabbles neighbors might have. In the end, Paul and Larry's families had little choice but to keep resisting, knowing that their retaliation, however justified, could never match the sheer force of Isiah's power. They knew that without change, without the truth coming to light, Middle Earth would remain a land of injustice, controlled by those who had the money, the weapons, and the ability to shape the story however they pleased. Doesn't really sit right with me that you've kept a typical Jewish name as the main bad guy but then subbed out Arabic names as the portrayed victims for common English names. Why not replace all names with those of a similar origin? It's just subliminal messaging, aiming to relate Palestinians (including Hamas and Hezbollah terror groups) to Westerners, whilst all the while retaining Israelis as the bad guys. ...and if you're going to use to use middle earth as the location then you should have used names from Lord of the Rings. Probably because Israel begins Is, and so does Isiah. And Ian is one letter off Iran. I struggle with men's names beginning with I the only other I know is Ivan. Middle Earth again is similar to Middle East...
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 3, 2024 8:14:47 GMT
Doesn't really sit right with me that you've kept a typical Jewish name as the main bad guy but then subbed out Arabic names as the portrayed victims for common English names. Why not replace all names with those of a similar origin? It's just subliminal messaging, aiming to relate Palestinians (including Hamas and Hezbollah terror groups) to Westerners, whilst all the while retaining Israelis as the bad guys. ...and if you're going to use to use middle earth as the location then you should have used names from Lord of the Rings. Probably because Israel begins Is, and so does Isiah. And Ian is one letter off Iran. I struggle with men's names beginning with I the only other I know is Ivan. Middle Earth again is similar to Middle East... Someone hasn't read their Isaac and Ishmael, I see 😉
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 8:49:05 GMT
Nevermind Israel being backed with weapons. Feels like the oatcake has been loaded with a few weapons over the last week 🤣
The war porn enthusiasts have landed.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2024 8:51:40 GMT
The original post I replied to was asking what the endgame of the protagonists in this conflict is. Regardless of why or when Hezbollah came into existence the fact is it was founded, with the explicit support of the regime in Iran, in order to seek the eradication of the state of Isreal. And before Hezbollah was formed there already were people who were committed to eradicating the state of Isreal - Hezbollah is just an organised manifestation of that agenda. So my question remains - given the stated aim of Hezbollah is the eradication of the state of Isreal how does this end? It strikes me there are three options: 1 Hezbollah succeed in eradicating the state of Isreal. Unlikely given Isreal's military strength and the backing it gets fron the West and the West is not going to walk away and let that happen. 2 Isreal succeeds in its ground offensive and eradicates Hezbollah. Unlikely - it may significantly weaken it but is unlikely to eradicate it. 3 There is a regime change in Isreal, there is a reconciliation with the Palestinians and Hezbollah disbands itself. Lovely idea, not going to happen - the commitment to eradicating the state of Isreal runs deep. This conflict is going to run for generations. The best that can happen is that some form of accord between the Jewish and Muslim communities in Isreal, those dedicated to eradicating the state of Isreal get marginalised, the Lebonese people turn on Hezbollah and remove them from positions of power and there is a regime change in Iran. Regardless of the atrocities, deception and manipulation undertaken by the state of Isreal the question remains does the State of Isreal have the right to fight in order to maintain its existence against an enemy dedicated to its eradication and should the West support them in so doing? For me it is yes on both counts but that does not mean I support what the Isreali government is doing to the people of Palestine and tbe Lebanon. So Paul and others, simple question - does the state of Israel have the right to exist and do they have right to defend themselves against groups whose stated aim is to eradicate it?Yes. Israel and its people has/have a legitimate right to exist as much as Kosovans, Ukrainians or anyone else. Anyone arguing against that is part of the problem, rather than the solution. Agreed. The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state but whether what they do is legitimate and appropriate. And yes I believe they are guilty of over stepping the mark, particularly in relation to the people of Gaza and turning a blind eye to the land grab in the north, but I don't think they can just do nothing.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 9:05:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 3, 2024 9:05:15 GMT
The Prime Minister the day before yesterday on tv, and our social minister as well: "The antisemitism must come to an end. It's mostly a threat from the left sided politicians around Europe."
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 10:19:25 GMT
Yes. Israel and its people has/have a legitimate right to exist as much as Kosovans, Ukrainians or anyone else. Anyone arguing against that is part of the problem, rather than the solution. Agreed. The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state but whether what they do is legitimate and appropriate. And yes I believe they are guilty of over stepping the mark, particularly in relation to the people of Gaza and turning a blind eye to the land grab in the north, but I don't think they can just do nothing. Sounds like you've been living under a rock for a few decades. One simple question which you can get the answer to from Google. How many Israelis have died compared to Palestines and Lebanese since well any decade or year of your liking. Such a ridiculous statement to make. "Committed to the eradication of israel" don't make me fucking laugh. It's not the Israelis dying. It's not Israel with multiple land evasions slaughtering 100s. Its not Israel who keeps losing its land to the other regimes. Its not Israel who has armed settlers taking over their homes. So if you want to talk about commitment to eradicating another country. Then maybe you should have turned on the news once in the last 12 months. Maybe then you'd see actual evidence of what eradicating another state looks like in practice. So going back to this: "The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state" And given the monumental evidence which shows Israel is the one actively trying to eradicate states. Does this mean you have no issue with Hamas, Hezbollah or any other resistance group taking action against the IDF who are committed to the eradication of their states? Or are we simply here to regurgitate the propoganda and ignore the actual facts. Tell me about the death toll and which countries borders are getting bigger and which countries borders are getting smaller. Then come and talk to me about eradication of states. What you're doing is pedalling propoganda and apologism for a genocide and making excuses for it. Pick up a history book for goodness sake.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 10:56:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 10:56:41 GMT
What an absolute waste of life for these soldiers. Born in Israel and forced to conscript with no choice of their own for a terrorist state.
More bodies put through the meat grinder just like in other conflicts in the world. And for what? What sort of life is that?
This stuff will never end especially while it continues to be bankrolled by America thousands of miles away who never feel the reprecussions or impacts of war on their soil. Only then where their people suffer will the politicians maybe listen.
Evil.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 11:05:10 GMT
Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 11:05:10 GMT
Doesn't really sit right with me that you've kept a typical Jewish name as the main bad guy but then subbed out Arabic names as the portrayed victims for common English names. Why not replace all names with those of a similar origin? It's just subliminal messaging, aiming to relate Palestinians (including Hamas and Hezbollah terror groups) to Westerners, whilst all the while retaining Israelis as the bad guys. ...and if you're going to use to use middle earth as the location then you should have used names from Lord of the Rings. Probably because Israel begins Is, and so does Isiah. And Ian is one letter off Iran. I struggle with men's names beginning with I the only other I know is Ivan. Middle Earth again is similar to Middle East... Still, seems quite antisemitic to me mate, when the entire situation is a lot more nuanced. A kids story with all of Israel being the protagonists and all the victims as westerners just doesn't seem right. I'm not in favour of Israel at all. I'm just stating how the 'story' comes across to a neutral.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 11:16:44 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 11:16:44 GMT
What led to the creation of Hezbollah, you make it sound like they just randomly woke up one morning and decided to start hating on Israel? If you watch the short video I posted at the top of this page, that newsreal is from THREE years BEFORE Hezbollah was even created. The original post I replied to was asking what the endgame of the protagonists in this conflict is. Regardless of why or when Hezbollah came into existence the fact is it was founded, with the explicit support of the regime in Iran, in order to seek the eradication of the state of Isreal. And before Hezbollah was formed there already were people who were committed to eradicating the state of Isreal - Hezbollah is just an organised manifestation of that agenda. So my question remains - given the stated aim of Hezbollah is the eradication of the state of Isreal how does this end? It strikes me there are three options: 1 Hezbollah succeed in eradicating the state of Isreal. Unlikely given Isreal's military strength and the backing it gets fron the West and the West is not going to walk away and let that happen. 2 Isreal succeeds in its ground offensive and eradicates Hezbollah. Unlikely - it may significantly weaken it but is unlikely to eradicate it. 3 There is a regime change in Isreal, there is a reconciliation with the Palestinians and Hezbollah disbands itself. Lovely idea, not going to happen - the commitment to eradicating the state of Isreal runs deep. This conflict is going to run for generations. The best that can happen is that some form of accord between the Jewish and Muslim communities in Isreal, those dedicated to eradicating the state of Isreal get marginalised, the Lebonese people turn on Hezbollah and remove them from positions of power and there is a regime change in Iran. Regardless of the atrocities, deception and manipulation undertaken by the state of Isreal the question remains does the State of Isreal have the right to fight in order to maintain its existence against an enemy dedicated to its eradication and should the West support them in so doing? For me it is yes on both counts but that does not mean I support what the Isreali government is doing to the people of Palestine and tbe Lebanon. So Paul and others, simple question - does the state of Isreal have the right to exist and do they have right to defend themselves against groups whose stated aim is to eradicate it? Such a jaundiced response. I even went to the bother of replying to you yesterday, with a much more constructive option than the three you have listed but you ignored it. Try not to just look at it from Israel's perspective ...
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 11:36:14 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2024 11:36:14 GMT
Agreed. The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state but whether what they do is legitimate and appropriate. And yes I believe they are guilty of over stepping the mark, particularly in relation to the people of Gaza and turning a blind eye to the land grab in the north, but I don't think they can just do nothing. Sounds like you've been living under a rock for a few decades. One simple question which you can get the answer to from Google. How many Israelis have died compared to Palestines and Lebanese since well any decade or year of your liking. Such a ridiculous statement to make. "Committed to the eradication of israel" don't make me fucking laugh. It's not the Israelis dying. It's not Israel with multiple land evasions slaughtering 100s. Its not Israel who keeps losing its land to the other regimes. Its not Israel who has armed settlers taking over their homes. So if you want to talk about commitment to eradicating another country. Then maybe you should have turned on the news once in the last 12 months. Maybe then you'd see actual evidence of what eradicating another state looks like in practice. So going back to this: "The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state" And given the monumental evidence which shows Israel is the one actively trying to eradicate states. Does this mean you have no issue with Hamas, Hezbollah or any other resistance group taking action against the IDF who are committed to the eradication of their states? Or are we simply here to regurgitate the propoganda and ignore the actual facts. Tell me about the death toll and which countries borders are getting bigger and which countries borders are getting smaller. Then come and talk to me about eradication of states. What you're doing is pedalling propoganda and apologism for a genocide and making excuses for it. Pick up a history book for goodness sake. I'm done absolutely nothing of the sort. I've repeatedly condemned Isreal for some of their actions but I'm not prepared to characterise the situation as a battle between the untouchable good guys and the irredeemable bad guys - that's just childish. Hezbollah are terrorist organisation committed to the eradication of the state of Isreal. The fact that they have yet to acheive it or the fact that they don't appear to have the means to do it is by the by. That is the purpose of their existence. Isreal is not committed to the eradication of any states. Palestine is not a state (although I think it should be). Hezbollah is not a state. Isreal hasn't called for the eradication of the states of Lebanon or Iran. Isreal has the right to defend itself against groups dedicated to its eradication. If I'm living under a rock you are living in an ideological bubble where anything Isreal does is automatically wrong. It really isn't as simple or as black and white as you make out no matter what your books tell you. As to me regurgitating propaganda you really need to look yourself in the mirror on that one.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 11:50:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2024 11:50:29 GMT
The original post I replied to was asking what the endgame of the protagonists in this conflict is. Regardless of why or when Hezbollah came into existence the fact is it was founded, with the explicit support of the regime in Iran, in order to seek the eradication of the state of Isreal. And before Hezbollah was formed there already were people who were committed to eradicating the state of Isreal - Hezbollah is just an organised manifestation of that agenda. So my question remains - given the stated aim of Hezbollah is the eradication of the state of Isreal how does this end? It strikes me there are three options: 1 Hezbollah succeed in eradicating the state of Isreal. Unlikely given Isreal's military strength and the backing it gets fron the West and the West is not going to walk away and let that happen. 2 Isreal succeeds in its ground offensive and eradicates Hezbollah. Unlikely - it may significantly weaken it but is unlikely to eradicate it. 3 There is a regime change in Isreal, there is a reconciliation with the Palestinians and Hezbollah disbands itself. Lovely idea, not going to happen - the commitment to eradicating the state of Isreal runs deep. This conflict is going to run for generations. The best that can happen is that some form of accord between the Jewish and Muslim communities in Isreal, those dedicated to eradicating the state of Isreal get marginalised, the Lebonese people turn on Hezbollah and remove them from positions of power and there is a regime change in Iran. Regardless of the atrocities, deception and manipulation undertaken by the state of Isreal the question remains does the State of Isreal have the right to fight in order to maintain its existence against an enemy dedicated to its eradication and should the West support them in so doing? For me it is yes on both counts but that does not mean I support what the Isreali government is doing to the people of Palestine and tbe Lebanon. So Paul and others, simple question - does the state of Isreal have the right to exist and do they have right to defend themselves against groups whose stated aim is to eradicate it? Such a jaundiced response. I even went to the bother of replying to you yesterday, with a much more constructive option than the three you have listed but you ignored it. Try not to just look at it from Israel's perspective ... Jaundiced? Looking at it only from one perspective? Really? I've repeatedly condemned Isreal for some of their actions and I've also condemned Hamas for some of there's. To my knowledge you haven't once accepted that the state of Isreal has the right to defend itself. So once again 2 very simple and straightforward questions: 1 Is Hezbollah a terrorist organisation, backed by the Iranian regime, whose key objective is to eradicate the state of Isreal. 2 Has the state of Isreal the right to take action against those threatening its very existence. Simple yes or no - no deflection and petty name calling.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 11:52:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by Davef on Oct 3, 2024 11:52:32 GMT
What an absolute waste of life for these soldiers. Born in Israel and forced to conscript with no choice of their own for a terrorist state. More bodies put through the meat grinder just like in other conflicts in the world. And for what? What sort of life is that? This stuff will never end especially while it continues to be bankrolled by America thousands of miles away who never feel the reprecussions or impacts of war on their soil. Only then where their people suffer will the politicians maybe listen. Evil. That is apparently a video from October 7th 2023. I think you should consider deleting this post.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2024 12:03:22 GMT
Such a jaundiced response. I even went to the bother of replying to you yesterday, with a much more constructive option than the three you have listed but you ignored it. Try not to just look at it from Israel's perspective ... Jaundiced? Looking at it only from one perspective? Really? I've repeatedly condemned Isreal for some of their actions and I've also condemned Hamas for some of there's. To my knowledge you haven't once accepted that the state of Isreal has the right to defend itself. So once again 2 very simple and straightforward questions: 1 Is Hezbollah a terrorist organisation, backed by the Iranian regime, whose key objective is to eradicate the state of Isreal. 2 Has the state of Isreal the right to take action against those threatening its very existence. Simple yes or no - no deflection and petty name calling. Look if you actually took the time to open the links I provide you with, you wouldn't even need to ask such ridiculous questions. And if you want to have a grown up conversation, it maybe better to step back, have a breather and not construct such obviously biased questions. In doing so, you're kind of making my point about your jaundiced perspective, for me. Indeed you're not very far away from ... 1) Is Israel a terrorist state, backed by the USA, who's key objective is to eradicate Palestine? 2) Do the Palestinians have the right to take action against those threatening their very existence? Now I'm not the one asking those questions but can you now see, that just by switching the main protagonists around, how biased YOUR ones actually are? And of course, there's nothing wrong in showing that bias but please, at least be honest about it.
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Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 12:04:17 GMT
Seems that there a few on here that like to give history lessons but come up with absolutely fuck all in terms of solutions. They also completely overlook the fact that Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah will never give in to a 2 state solution.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 12:05:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 12:05:56 GMT
What an absolute waste of life for these soldiers. Born in Israel and forced to conscript with no choice of their own for a terrorist state. More bodies put through the meat grinder just like in other conflicts in the world. And for what? What sort of life is that? This stuff will never end especially while it continues to be bankrolled by America thousands of miles away who never feel the reprecussions or impacts of war on their soil. Only then where their people suffer will the politicians maybe listen. Evil. That is apparently a video from October 7th 2023. I think you should consider deleting this post. You can do it for me if you so wish. Doesn't matter what date they died. Its still a waste of life. I take no joy in watching anyone die even if its IDF soldiers who are taking part in war crimes. They're just cannon fodder and disposibal to the evil leaders.
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 12:18:59 GMT
Sounds like you've been living under a rock for a few decades. One simple question which you can get the answer to from Google. How many Israelis have died compared to Palestines and Lebanese since well any decade or year of your liking. Such a ridiculous statement to make. "Committed to the eradication of israel" don't make me fucking laugh. It's not the Israelis dying. It's not Israel with multiple land evasions slaughtering 100s. Its not Israel who keeps losing its land to the other regimes. Its not Israel who has armed settlers taking over their homes. So if you want to talk about commitment to eradicating another country. Then maybe you should have turned on the news once in the last 12 months. Maybe then you'd see actual evidence of what eradicating another state looks like in practice. So going back to this: "The issue for me is therefore not the fact the Isreali government has taken action against those committed to the eradication of Isreal as a nation state" And given the monumental evidence which shows Israel is the one actively trying to eradicate states. Does this mean you have no issue with Hamas, Hezbollah or any other resistance group taking action against the IDF who are committed to the eradication of their states? Or are we simply here to regurgitate the propoganda and ignore the actual facts. Tell me about the death toll and which countries borders are getting bigger and which countries borders are getting smaller. Then come and talk to me about eradication of states. What you're doing is pedalling propoganda and apologism for a genocide and making excuses for it. Pick up a history book for goodness sake. I'm done absolutely nothing of the sort. I've repeatedly condemned Isreal for some of their actions but I'm not prepared to characterise the situation as a battle between the untouchable good guys and the irredeemable bad guys - that's just childish. Hezbollah are terrorist organisation committed to the eradication of the state of Isreal. The fact that they have yet to acheive it or the fact that they don't appear to have the means to do it is by the by. That is the purpose of their existence. Isreal is not committed to the eradication of any states. Palestine is not a state (although I think it should be). Hezbollah is not a state. Isreal hasn't called for the eradication of the states of Lebanon or Iran. Isreal has the right to defend itself against groups dedicated to its eradication. If I'm living under a rock you are living in an ideological bubble where anything Isreal does is automatically wrong. It really isn't as simple or as black and white as you make out no matter what your books tell you. As to me regurgitating propaganda you really need to look yourself in the mirror on that one. So Israel isn't committed to the eradication of Palestine. And you've just said Palestine isn't a state too... According to whom is it not a state? The majority of the countries in the United Nations recognise it as one. Why don't you? Is the refusal to acknowledge a state not effectively supporting the eradication of it? And you yourself refuse to even acknowledge its existance so are you also in support of its eradication? Or why do you not recognise it despite majority of countries recognising it. Please answer my questions in relation to number of deaths, number of land invasions and changing of borders. I don't understand the mental gymnastics where everyone is wanting to eradicate Israel and its simply defending itself when it's the one who's borders keep growing, its the one who keeps commiting acts of terror, its the one who has significantly more blood on its hands. And its the one who created hamas and hezbollah through doing the above. You make out that organically out of nowhere people just decided they hate Israel and planned to eradicate it. You skip past and whitewash why these groups who "want to eradicate israel" were formed. For as long as you're willing to gloss over the events which led to their formation you'll never have a proper understanding. I presume you're a staunch opponent of the ANC in South Africa and believe they were terrorists who organically grew out of nowhere despite being treated equally and fairly? They just longed for killing and terrorism? It wasn't the actions of a government or anything or being treated unfairly and oppressed which caused it. They're just born hating these people out of the womb?
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Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 12:19:28 GMT
I'd like to hear some solutions for how some posters would convince terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to accept a long standing truce and two state solution?...and Iran.
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Israel
Oct 3, 2024 13:26:09 GMT
Post by foster on Oct 3, 2024 13:26:09 GMT
I'd like to hear some solutions for how some posters would convince terror groups like Gone quiet.... anybody? Without a solution to this, there is no point complaining about Israels course of action. You can criticise their methods, but it doesn't provide a solution. It's excessive yes, abhorrent yes, but there is also no place for these two terror groups and you can't reasonably expect Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah to live peacefully next door to each other. How this conflict came to be and the history behind it is irrelevant if you seriously want to find a solution. So again, does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, to accept a long standing truce and two state solution?
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Post by gawa on Oct 3, 2024 14:48:59 GMT
Gone quiet.... anybody? Without a solution to this, there is no point complaining about Israels course of action. You can criticise their methods, but it doesn't provide a solution. It's excessive yes, abhorrent yes, but there is also no place for these two terror groups and you can't reasonably expect Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah to live peacefully next door to each other. How this conflict came to be and the history behind it is irrelevant if you seriously want to find a solution. So again, does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, to accept a long standing truce and two state solution? Before any path to peace between Israel and the wider Palestinian people can commence, my own view is that the US, EU, Russia and China all need to accept that the Iranian Regime needs to be crippled and eliminated. Iran is funding all of the terrorist organisations in the area and is the main antagonist in the region. Iran is the only country stood to gain anything from instability in the region. Literally every other Arab and Gulf state in the vicinity of Iran suffers with body counts because of it. Wedded to that is, of course, Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied Territories. I think you're falling for propoganda 101 there mate. Iran has done more to fight Al Qaeda and ISIS than any country in the region. But they're the ones funding terrorism? They're not the ones finding side by side with Al Qaeda in Yemen. You might want to look towards the other side of the antlantic for that. It is however interesting that ISIS have started attacking Moscow in recent months. Irans biggest crime is having a revolution where they took back control of their country and their vast natural resources. Would you be as supportive of Iran if this conflict was happening in Latin America? And Iran had puppet governments setup to extract wealth from soverign nations through valuable resources? And Iran was arming and bankrolling their proxys against to fight any Latin America country who doesn't dare follow their orders? Despite the slave trade, the colonisation, the imperialistion etc.. our media does a great job in making people believe we are the "good guys" in every situation.
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