|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2024 8:31:47 GMT
No one has shed a tear for Nasarallah on here from what I’ve read…… Families in Iran still remember pre 1979. Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic have been beyond a disaster that for country. You're not allowed to say it, not even whisper it. Near enough every (non fighting) Iranian would go back to Pahlavi in an instant. They hate Hezbollah more than us. Yep I understand the history. We approved one democratically elected government being overthrown in 1953, but we didn't like the one in 1979. That pattern is continued throughout history across the globe......
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 8:40:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by emretezzy on Oct 2, 2024 8:40:42 GMT
Israel won't go anywhere near Iran. They'll target proxy leaders through precise hits. And because these cowards live in Hospitals you're probably going to get some collateral. Israel will go after Hezbolooah in a serious way in southern Lebannon, build a border buffer. Then go back home. I'd be surprised if Israel wasn't at least considering to use this as an excuse to go after Iran's nuclear programme. It depends what the US has green lighted them to do I guess. There is a less than zero chance Israel goes after Iran directly.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 8:45:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 8:45:11 GMT
No one has shed a tear for Nasarallah on here from what I’ve read…… Families in Iran still remember pre 1979. Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic have been beyond a disaster that for country. You're not allowed to say it, not even whisper it. Near enough every (non fighting) Iranian would go back to Pahlavi in an instant. They hate Hezbollah more than us. Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 8:47:13 GMT
I mean I’m just struggling with the whole one side totally good and one side totally bad. How can we condemn action from one side and not the other? Doesn’t matter whether it’s Israel, Russia or anyone else, killing civilians in the name of war should never be accepted. I might be old fashioned but I was always under the impression that war just leads to more war. There are never any ‘winners’. 100% agree mate. Its not the leaders who usually suffer, its civillians. Everyone else is simply cannon fodder.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 8:54:23 GMT
Post by dutchstokie on Oct 2, 2024 8:54:23 GMT
When I read this post it got me thinking about this whole situation......to the point where its just so confusing. If we're brutally honest now, this has been going on for decades and sadly it doesnt look like stopping. So the simple question for all parties in this is: What does Israel want..? What do Lebanon/Hesbollah want ? Theres so much tit for tat retaliations and with this sad conflict going on for so long, people forget what it is each group actually wants and are trying to achieve...at least for me it does.
|
|
|
Post by emretezzy on Oct 2, 2024 8:55:42 GMT
Families in Iran still remember pre 1979. Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic have been beyond a disaster that for country. You're not allowed to say it, not even whisper it. Near enough every (non fighting) Iranian would go back to Pahlavi in an instant. They hate Hezbollah more than us. Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers. I've got multiple Iranian friends GAWA. Some expatriates and some living there. They all prefer, and talk of, pre Islamic state rule. Sorry you find that hard to believe.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:01:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by emretezzy on Oct 2, 2024 9:01:41 GMT
Families in Iran still remember pre 1979. Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic have been beyond a disaster that for country. You're not allowed to say it, not even whisper it. Near enough every (non fighting) Iranian would go back to Pahlavi in an instant. They hate Hezbollah more than us. Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers. Presume you say the same nonsense about the green line in Beirut as well? It's not propaganda, it's not the west etc... Beirut was literally one of the best places in the world before the green line.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:22:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 9:22:01 GMT
Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers. I've got multiple Iranian friends GAWA. Some expatriates and some living there. They all prefer, and talk of, pre Islamic state rule. Sorry you find that hard to believe. I'm sure you may well have a few Iranian friends. I used to have an Iranian girlfriend so I have an idea too on their history. Maybe the ones you know are more of the Niyak Ghorbani sort who aren't well liked by the Iranian people or reflective of their views.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:25:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 9:25:05 GMT
Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers. Presume you say the same nonsense about the green line in Beirut as well? It's not propaganda, it's not the west etc... Beirut was literally one of the best places in the world before the green line. I'll stick to reading the history books for getting my history thanks. I think you're right. Iranians preferred being led by an oppressive Monarchy who made foreigners rich of their natural resources. My bad.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:27:00 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Oct 2, 2024 9:27:00 GMT
When I read this post it got me thinking about this whole situation......to the point where its just so confusing. If we're brutally honest now, this has been going on for decades and sadly it doesnt look like stopping. So the simple question for all parties in this is: What does Israel want..? What do Lebanon/Hesbollah want ? Theres so much tit for tat retaliations and with this sad conflict going on for so long, people forget what it is each group actually wants and are trying to achieve...at least for me it does. Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election. If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country".
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:30:40 GMT
Post by Eggybread on Oct 2, 2024 9:30:40 GMT
Makes me sick to my bones that we as a country are helping Israel,to defend itself.What about the Palestinians,Jordanians,Lebanese the Gazans who all suffer terribly with astronomical losses compared to Israel. Just wrong. Jordanians? Ironically the only place unsafe in Jordan is the border buffer with Syria. Everywhere else is lovely. Seems like I am the only one on here who's glad Nasrallah has been wiped off the face of the earth along with the, near on, Billions of Muslims who live under their persecution. Iran have turned up to a gun fight with a Super Soaker 3000. I know you lot get your knickers in a severe twist, but fundamentally Hamas and Hezbollah are fucking shit heads who hide with families, rape pillage and cause general misery to anyone under them. I'd defy any of you go and spend a day under the rule of one of these fuckers. You'd soon be moaning about free speech then. yes the Jordanians I cannot remember anyone helping the Jordanians out in the 6 day war.15,000 arabs died and not a finger was lifted to help them.The jews have caused trouble in the area ever since they got there when (Russian Polish ,Lithuanian jews ) were persecuted and they moved to Palestine.And what did they start to do straight away .Land grabbing,kill arabs and with their money and allies starting to destroy and take over Palestine.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:33:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 9:33:23 GMT
When I read this post it got me thinking about this whole situation......to the point where its just so confusing. If we're brutally honest now, this has been going on for decades and sadly it doesnt look like stopping. So the simple question for all parties in this is: What does Israel want..? What do Lebanon/Hesbollah want ? Theres so much tit for tat retaliations and with this sad conflict going on for so long, people forget what it is each group actually wants and are trying to achieve...at least for me it does. Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election. If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It's a shame that we weren't willing, along with France, to form an alliance with the Soviet Union in 1939 which offered a guarantee to protect Poland and other balkan states. Soviets were very aware of Nazi Germany threat and came to UK/France to make an agreement but they refused. In the end the Soviets, who were fighting Japan at the time and aware of the growing nazi threat had to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This allowed the Soviets to create a buffer zone in Poland from the looming threat of Nazi Germany and allowed them to reorganise their defences as they were engaged in a conflict with the Japanese at the time. In the end it was the Soviet army who killed 80% of the Nazis and did more than any other European country in fighting them. Had France and UK agreed to the original pact maybe alot more lives could have been saved.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Oct 2, 2024 9:39:25 GMT
Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election. If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It's a shame that we weren't willing, along with France, to form an alliance with the Soviet Union in 1939 which offered a guarantee to protect Poland and other balkan states. Soviets were very aware of Nazi Germany threat and came to UK/France to make an agreement but they refused. In the end the Soviets, who were fighting Japan at the time and aware of the growing nazi threat had to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This allowed the Soviets to create a buffer zone in Poland from the looming threat of Nazi Germany and allowed them to reorganise their defences as they were engaged in a conflict with the Japanese at the time. In the end it was the Soviet army who killed 80% of the Nazis and did more than any other European country in fighting them. Had France and UK agreed to the original pact maybe alot more lives could have been saved. www.azquotes.com/quote/265341
|
|
|
Post by emretezzy on Oct 2, 2024 9:40:45 GMT
Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election. If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It's a shame that we weren't willing, along with France, to form an alliance with the Soviet Union in 1939 which offered a guarantee to protect Poland and other balkan states. Soviets were very aware of Nazi Germany threat and came to UK/France to make an agreement but they refused. In the end the Soviets, who were fighting Japan at the time and aware of the growing nazi threat had to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This allowed the Soviets to create a buffer zone in Poland from the looming threat of Nazi Germany and allowed them to reorganise their defences as they were engaged in a conflict with the Japanese at the time. In the end it was the Soviet army who killed 80% of the Nazis and did more than any other European country in fighting them. Had France and UK agreed to the original pact maybe alot more lives could have been saved. Pro Stalin. That's a wind up GAWA surely. Congrats on the Iranian girlfriend though. Some of the nicest looking women on the planet. Not that you'd know in Iran mind.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:43:01 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2024 9:43:01 GMT
Pre 1979? You're fecking right they do and that's why they hold the west in a bad light. They remember the puppet monarchy put in place by the west which extracted their natural resources for western profits. It was actually the women in Iran which were fundamental to the uprising and overthrowing the puppet monarchy who served western interests and sold out their people for their own greed. Let me guess though... You seen a video from the bbc of people wearing jeans in Iran in the 70s and so you believe that they all preferred it then because it looks like the west? Even though they were being exploited and oppressed and it was the Workers who uprise to take back control of their country. Propoganda 101. Look under the covers. I've got multiple Iranian friends GAWA. Some expatriates and some living there. They all prefer, and talk of, pre Islamic state rule. Sorry you find that hard to believe. Ditto, but if you talk to their parents who were around in the 40's and 50's they would have a different story to tell......
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Oct 2, 2024 9:46:06 GMT
I'd be surprised if Israel wasn't at least considering to use this as an excuse to go after Iran's nuclear programme. It depends what the US has green lighted them to do I guess. There is a less than zero chance Israel goes after Iran directly. Think the exact opposite is true Israel is now duty bound to respond,within days,to Iran's missile attack That can only mean a direct attack on Iran,not on one of it's proxy's
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:48:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Oct 2, 2024 9:48:37 GMT
It's a shame that we weren't willing, along with France, to form an alliance with the Soviet Union in 1939 which offered a guarantee to protect Poland and other balkan states. Soviets were very aware of Nazi Germany threat and came to UK/France to make an agreement but they refused. In the end the Soviets, who were fighting Japan at the time and aware of the growing nazi threat had to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This allowed the Soviets to create a buffer zone in Poland from the looming threat of Nazi Germany and allowed them to reorganise their defences as they were engaged in a conflict with the Japanese at the time. In the end it was the Soviet army who killed 80% of the Nazis and did more than any other European country in fighting them. Had France and UK agreed to the original pact maybe alot more lives could have been saved. www.azquotes.com/quote/265341I think that's an enormous stretch Soviets were in the grip of full on bat shit crazy paranoid Stalin era,very difficult to predict what they would or wouldn't do other than to say nothing was off the table at any time However having said that you still might be right!
|
|
|
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 9:52:57 GMT
Iran's attack is a message and a show of force. The attack was extensively telegraphed for over 2 weeks, and Iran gave advance warning to the US in order to avoid an all-out war.
There were also no NOTAMs issued in Iranian airspace, which usually signals an imminent attack. Iran also decided to carry out the attack with ballistic missiles only, which arrive in Israel within less than 15 minutes, giving Israel virtually no time to respond. Most US aircraft carriers had recently left, something Iran was waiting for. Everything shows that Iran really aimed to re-establish deterrence this time, while still not going 'all-out'.
All in all, it seems that today is for real. We'll have to wait to assess the damage, and Israel will try to cover up as much as possible, as usual. From the videos that are available, it appears that there were at least 60-70 impacts in total across various Israeli military targets - the Mossad base in Tel Aviv, the Nevatim Airbase in the Negev, the Hatzerim Base, the IDF's radar array, and the gathering places of Israeli tanks. We won't know for sure until the satellite images get released in a few days.
Until then, we wait for a potential Israeli response - but Iranian media reports that IRIAF fighter jets, including F-14 Tomcats and F-4 Phantoms, are now continuously patrolling the skies to confront any possible Israeli aerial threat. Last time (April 2024), there was virtually none, but this time seems different. In any case, this was only the first wave, and the IRGC has prepared for an unprecedented exchange that could last multiple months.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 9:53:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2024 9:53:37 GMT
It's a shame that we weren't willing, along with France, to form an alliance with the Soviet Union in 1939 which offered a guarantee to protect Poland and other balkan states. Soviets were very aware of Nazi Germany threat and came to UK/France to make an agreement but they refused. In the end the Soviets, who were fighting Japan at the time and aware of the growing nazi threat had to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This allowed the Soviets to create a buffer zone in Poland from the looming threat of Nazi Germany and allowed them to reorganise their defences as they were engaged in a conflict with the Japanese at the time. In the end it was the Soviet army who killed 80% of the Nazis and did more than any other European country in fighting them. Had France and UK agreed to the original pact maybe alot more lives could have been saved. Pro Stalin. That's a wind up GAWA surely. Congrats on the Iranian girlfriend though. Some of the nicest looking women on the planet. Not that you'd know in Iran mind. Not at all. The Soviet Union were instrumental in fighting the nazis. Stalin had his problems and did some bad things but when it came to the nazis the Soviets were key to winning the war. Haha it was about 15 years ago and came from a holiday romance and then she fecked off to Bristol for uni and that was that. But yeh Persian women are stunning.
|
|
|
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 9:57:01 GMT
I don't think it's been posted before, but for the avoidance of doubt Israel's aims appear to be, both explicitly and implicitly:
- Killing all replacements of Sayyed Nasrallah - Killing Hezbollah's leadership military and political - Killing Hezbollah's medium and lower rank commanders - Denying Hezbollah any new weapons - Denying Hezbollah the ability to recover - Denying Hezbollah the ability to survive - Destroying the Ridwan fighting Force - Increasing the mandate of the UN and the Lebanese army to control south Lebanon and active fight any resistance - Regime change in Lebanon that will politically side-line Hezbollah
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2024 10:02:27 GMT
When I read this post it got me thinking about this whole situation......to the point where its just so confusing. If we're brutally honest now, this has been going on for decades and sadly it doesnt look like stopping. So the simple question for all parties in this is: What does Israel want..? What do Lebanon/Hesbollah want ? Theres so much tit for tat retaliations and with this sad conflict going on for so long, people forget what it is each group actually wants and are trying to achieve...at least for me it does. Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election.
If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It wants to do that by constantly breaking international law, by stealing the land and livelihoods of the people already living there. Are you telling me in all seriousness I as a British citizen should full show support to such a country? Respectfully, fuck that.............
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Oct 2, 2024 10:18:43 GMT
"Stalin had his problems and did some bad things..." Not sure how to respond to that.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 2, 2024 10:39:07 GMT
Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election.
If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It wants to do that by constantly breaking international law, by stealing the land and livelihoods of the people already living there. Are you telling me in all seriousness I as a British citizen should full show support to such a country? Respectfully, fuck that............. Indeed his final line in quotation marks, is both staggeringly ignorant and beyond ironic.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 11:23:36 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 11:23:36 GMT
Israel wants to live in peace, with a democratically elected government, which could be changed at their next election.
If a terrorist organization was firing rockets that could hit my home, I'd expect the British government to do whatever is necessary to stop them. We (all democracies) should support Israel and Ukraine the way we supported Poland in 1939. If you don't stand up against the despots they will take over you. "It is my country today, tomorrow it will be your country". It wants to do that by constantly breaking international law, by stealing the land and livelihoods of the people already living there. Are you telling me in all seriousness I as a British citizen should full show support to such a country? Respectfully, fuck that............. It's slightly more nuanced than that. It's fairly common knowledge that the Israeli armed forces this week thwarted another October 7th style terrorist operation by Hezbollah in the Galilee region. It's precisely why Israeli troops carried out dozens of cross-border attacks even before the official start of ground operations in southern Lebanon, destroying numerous Hezbollah positions, tunnels and facilities. Whilst Israel is deliberately ambiguous about the scope of its incursion into southern Lebanon, its actions are only obvious in the context that the Israeli escalation in Lebanon threatens the diplomatic achievement that took place in New York. It's why you have to consider that, shortly after the Hamas attack on October 7, thousands of terrorists were positioned near the Lebanese border to storm the Galilee and carry out a similar massacre there. IDF showed in a press briefing Hezbollah maps outlining detailed plans for the thwarted mass invasion. So, whilst I agree that Israel has to answer for its own actions and is no saint on any diplomatic level...when Israel is faced with another October 7th attack coming at it (that's the point of the incursion into Lebanon - to prevent any attempt to carry out an operation similar to what happened on October 7 in the Gaza envelope, by destroying tunnels that Hezbollah could use to cross the border) it's a bit more nuanced than just saying "fuck Israel". It's also a bit rich (at best) for UK observers to give the people of Israel absolutely no degree of empathy when the UK itself created that state by taking land off people, creating a conflict amongst peoples, and then not seek to protect the people it helped put there in the first place.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 12:05:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 2, 2024 12:05:21 GMT
It wants to do that by constantly breaking international law, by stealing the land and livelihoods of the people already living there. Are you telling me in all seriousness I as a British citizen should full show support to such a country? Respectfully, fuck that............. It's slightly more nuanced than that. It's fairly common knowledge that the Israeli armed forces this week thwarted another October 7th style terrorist operation by Hezbollah in the Galilee region. It's precisely why Israeli troops carried out dozens of cross-border attacks even before the official start of ground operations in southern Lebanon, destroying numerous Hezbollah positions, tunnels and facilities. Whilst Israel is deliberately ambiguous about the scope of its incursion into southern Lebanon, its actions are only obvious in the context that the Israeli escalation in Lebanon threatens the diplomatic achievement that took place in New York. It's why you have to consider that, shortly after the Hamas attack on October 7, thousands of terrorists were positioned near the Lebanese border to storm the Galilee and carry out a similar massacre there. IDF showed in a press briefing Hezbollah maps outlining detailed plans for the thwarted mass invasion. So, whilst I agree that Israel has to answer for its own actions and is no saint on any diplomatic level...when Israel is faced with another October 7th attack coming at it (that's the point of the incursion into Lebanon - to prevent any attempt to carry out an operation similar to what happened on October 7 in the Gaza envelope, by destroying tunnels that Hezbollah could use to cross the border) it's a bit more nuanced than just saying "fuck Israel". It's also a bit rich (at best) for UK observers to give the people of Israel absolutely no degree of empathy when the UK itself created that state by taking land off people, creating a conflict amongst peoples, and then not seek to protect the people it helped put there in the first place. You are correct to begin by saying that the topic is very nuanced, so it surprises me that the rest of your post contains very little. To simply accept, without question, that the IDF justification for it's cross border attacks as being the truth, I find a little odd at best. Especially considering their reputation for flat out lying in the past. Now I'm not saying that parts of what they claim might not be true but there appears to be very little nuance shown by yourself in reporting what did or indeed did not take place. And again, I find it a rather twisted logic for you to suggest ... "It's also a bit rich (at best) for UK observers to give the people of Israel absolutely no degree of empathy when the UK itself created that state by taking land off people, creating a conflict amongst peoples, and then not seek to protect the people it helped put there in the first place" Well what about a degree of empathy for the people who were ALREADY there? Why the emphasis on being empathic towards the people who you suggest were 'put' there? Indeed 'put' is actually a very strange choice of word to use.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2024 12:07:09 GMT
It wants to do that by constantly breaking international law, by stealing the land and livelihoods of the people already living there. Are you telling me in all seriousness I as a British citizen should full show support to such a country? Respectfully, fuck that............. It's slightly more nuanced than that. It's fairly common knowledge that the Israeli armed forces this week thwarted another October 7th style terrorist operation by Hezbollah in the Galilee region. It's precisely why Israeli troops carried out dozens of cross-border attacks even before the official start of ground operations in southern Lebanon, destroying numerous Hezbollah positions, tunnels and facilities. Whilst Israel is deliberately ambiguous about the scope of its incursion into southern Lebanon, its actions are only obvious in the context that the Israeli escalation in Lebanon threatens the diplomatic achievement that took place in New York. It's why you have to consider that, shortly after the Hamas attack on October 7, thousands of terrorists were positioned near the Lebanese border to storm the Galilee and carry out a similar massacre there. IDF showed in a press briefing Hezbollah maps outlining detailed plans for the thwarted mass invasion. So, whilst I agree that Israel has to answer for its own actions and is no saint on any diplomatic level...when Israel is faced with another October 7th attack coming at it (that's the point of the incursion into Lebanon - to prevent any attempt to carry out an operation similar to what happened on October 7 in the Gaza envelope, by destroying tunnels that Hezbollah could use to cross the border) it's a bit more nuanced than just saying "fuck Israel". It's also a bit rich (at best) for UK observers to give the people of Israel absolutely no degree of empathy when the UK itself created that state by taking land off people, creating a conflict amongst peoples, and then not seek to protect the people it helped put there in the first place. I'm have total empathy with all Israeli's who by a fate of geography find themselves embroiled in this conflict. I have absolutely no empathy for any Israeli that knowingly lives on land illegally occupied, even less so for those who live in properties where the owners have been forcibly removed....
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 12:48:30 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 12:48:30 GMT
It's slightly more nuanced than that. It's fairly common knowledge that the Israeli armed forces this week thwarted another October 7th style terrorist operation by Hezbollah in the Galilee region. It's precisely why Israeli troops carried out dozens of cross-border attacks even before the official start of ground operations in southern Lebanon, destroying numerous Hezbollah positions, tunnels and facilities. Whilst Israel is deliberately ambiguous about the scope of its incursion into southern Lebanon, its actions are only obvious in the context that the Israeli escalation in Lebanon threatens the diplomatic achievement that took place in New York. It's why you have to consider that, shortly after the Hamas attack on October 7, thousands of terrorists were positioned near the Lebanese border to storm the Galilee and carry out a similar massacre there. IDF showed in a press briefing Hezbollah maps outlining detailed plans for the thwarted mass invasion. So, whilst I agree that Israel has to answer for its own actions and is no saint on any diplomatic level...when Israel is faced with another October 7th attack coming at it (that's the point of the incursion into Lebanon - to prevent any attempt to carry out an operation similar to what happened on October 7 in the Gaza envelope, by destroying tunnels that Hezbollah could use to cross the border) it's a bit more nuanced than just saying "fuck Israel". It's also a bit rich (at best) for UK observers to give the people of Israel absolutely no degree of empathy when the UK itself created that state by taking land off people, creating a conflict amongst peoples, and then not seek to protect the people it helped put there in the first place. I'm have total empathy with all Israeli's who by a fate of geography find themselves embroiled in this conflict. I have absolutely no empathy for any Israeli that knowingly lives on land illegally occupied, even less so for those who live in properties where the owners have been forcibly removed.... Like I said, it's slightly more nuanced than "fuck Israel".
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 12:52:27 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 12:52:27 GMT
Rather helpfully, Israel is now saying it is barring UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres from entering the country because he did not unequivocally condemn Iran's missile attack.
""Anyone who cannot unequivocally condemn Iran's heinous attack on Israel, as nearly all the countries of the world have done, does not deserve to set foot on Israeli soil," Katz said.
"Israel will continue to defend its citizens and uphold its national dignity, with or without Antonio Guterres."
Guterres on Tuesday issued a brief statement referencing only the "latest attacks in the Middle East" and condemning the conflict "with escalation after escalation".
(https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8781482/israel-bars-un-secretary-general-from-entering-country/)
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 2, 2024 13:01:03 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 2, 2024 13:01:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2024 13:36:59 GMT
I'm have total empathy with all Israeli's who by a fate of geography find themselves embroiled in this conflict. I have absolutely no empathy for any Israeli that knowingly lives on land illegally occupied, even less so for those who live in properties where the owners have been forcibly removed.... Like I said, it's slightly more nuanced than "fuck Israel". I didn't say "fuck Israel"........
|
|