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Israel
Jun 8, 2024 17:50:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2024 17:50:41 GMT
Hostages rescued by the idf, Collateral damage. Comments awaited I’m honestly surprised any are still alive.
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Israel
Jun 8, 2024 18:54:52 GMT
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Post by musik on Jun 8, 2024 18:54:52 GMT
Hostages rescued by the idf, Collateral damage. Comments awaited Early today they said it was 4 people. Maybe more during the day?
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Post by stokeson on Jun 8, 2024 19:58:10 GMT
Hostages rescued by the idf, Collateral damage. Comments awaited Yes 4 hostages rescued (very good news) 104 palestinians killed and 400 injured but lets not talk about that.....
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Post by themistocles on Jun 8, 2024 20:17:34 GMT
Hostages rescued by the idf, Collateral damage. Comments awaited Yes 4 hostages rescued (very good news) 104 palestinians killed and 400 injured but lets not talk about that..... Where did you get those figures? No Hamas casualties? The Hamas narrative to any IDF success is usually a toxic combination of overinflated casualties coupled with war crimes accusations. Today, it’s hilarious. Legitimate military target.
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Post by stokeson on Jun 9, 2024 11:57:41 GMT
Yes 4 hostages rescued (very good news) 104 palestinians killed and 400 injured but lets not talk about that..... Where did you get those figures? No Hamas casualties? The Hamas narrative to any IDF success is usually a toxic combination of overinflated casualties coupled with war crimes accusations. Today, it’s hilarious. Legitimate military target. Everyone is a Legitimate target for the IDF including Israelis.....
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 9, 2024 14:19:37 GMT
Yes 4 hostages rescued (very good news) 104 palestinians killed and 400 injured but lets not talk about that..... Where did you get those figures? No Hamas casualties? The Hamas narrative to any IDF success is usually a toxic combination of overinflated casualties coupled with war crimes accusations. Today, it’s hilarious. Legitimate military target. The Israeli government seems to be able to tell us accurately the amount of Hamas terorrists they’ve killed but not the amount of civilians. The truth is many in that government don’t distinguish between the two, don’t take my word for it there’s plenty of quotes where they have said just that…..
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Israel
Jun 9, 2024 17:40:47 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jun 9, 2024 17:40:47 GMT
Bit surprised to hear that Labour will be including recognition of Palestine in their manifesto
Will the Conservatives counter that or say nothing?
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Post by Veritas on Jun 9, 2024 19:17:33 GMT
Bit surprised to hear that Labour will be including recognition of Palestine in their manifesto Will the Conservatives counter that or say nothing? I'm not, they have got an eye on keeping on side a sizeable portion of their support who have always been pro two state solution. It is if course a delicate balance given the nervousness caused by the claims of anti semitism under the Corbyn leadership.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 11, 2024 12:32:25 GMT
That very moment, when you begin to wonder if everything you've ever been told, might actually be all a lie ...
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Post by gawa on Jun 11, 2024 14:10:56 GMT
That very moment, when you begin to wonder if everything you've ever been told, might actually be all a lie ... Literally came to post the same video. It's incredibly sad and hard to watch to be honest. The lady screaming hasn't done anything wrong but it shows the levels of indoctrination amongst some communities. Very sad to watch but I guess sort of highlights the complexities around Zionism and Israel too. I relate to it because the same indoctrination happens within Northern Ireland with protestants and catholics. I remember debating on the Internet in 2010 about Israel and being on the other side of the argument as its common for loyalist/Unionist communities to display Israel flags. And we were told that it's because the catholics support Palestine who are terrorists. It's only when you distance yourself from it and educate yourself independently that you begin to realise the levels of indoctrination within some communities and how its common for people to be shunned if they even question it. Luckily my parents weren't sectarian. But I can relate. And I think there's also comparisons that can be made between zionist extremism and Islamic extremism too.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 11, 2024 14:30:15 GMT
That very moment, when you begin to wonder if everything you've ever been told, might actually be all a lie ... Literally came to post the same video. It's incredibly sad and hard to watch to be honest. The lady screaming hasn't done anything wrong but it shows the levels of indoctrination amongst some communities. Very sad to watch but I guess sort of highlights the complexities around Zionism and Israel too. I relate to it because the same indoctrination happens within Northern Ireland with protestants and catholics. I remember debating on the Internet in 2010 about Israel and being on the other side of the argument as its common for loyalist/Unionist communities to display Israel flags. And we were told that it's because the catholics support Palestine who are terrorists. It's only when you distance yourself from it and educate yourself independently that you begin to realise the levels of indoctrination within some communities and how its common for people to be shunned if they even question it. Luckily my parents weren't sectarian. But I can relate. And I think there's also comparisons that can be made between zionist extremism and Islamic extremism too. Couldn't agree with you more mate, as you say, it's a difficult watch but she's been subjected to a program of brainwashing all her life and when reality actually hits home, it's bound to be extremely painful.
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 5:39:40 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 12, 2024 5:39:40 GMT
Veitch really is a clown but found this video really interesting and some of the characters in it. Not quite sure how much of it’s political posturing but I’m convinced some don’t even know why they’re doing what they’re doing.
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 6:09:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 12, 2024 6:09:48 GMT
Bit surprised to hear that Labour will be including recognition of Palestine in their manifesto Will the Conservatives counter that or say nothing? That is the current government's policy. Cameron has announced this on several occasions in recent visits to the Middle East: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68137220
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 12, 2024 6:17:53 GMT
Bit surprised to hear that Labour will be including recognition of Palestine in their manifesto Will the Conservatives counter that or say nothing? I'm not, they have got an eye on keeping on side a sizeable portion of their support who have always been pro two state solution. It is if course a delicate balance given the nervousness caused by the claims of anti semitism under the Corbyn leadership. There is nothing controversial about the two state solution. The current US and UK governments are in the process of negotiating a two state solution through countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. A precondition is that the Palestinians have to drop Hamas as their political representatives. Labour are just announcing their support for the long term government policy on the matter.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 12, 2024 8:55:06 GMT
Veitch really is a clown but found this video really interesting and some of the characters in it. Not quite sure how much of it’s political posturing but I’m convinced some don’t even know why they’re doing what they’re doing. I was at the University of Manchester Festival on Saturday, my wife works for them and was helping out on one of the stands. I had my daughter and eldest son with me. The march was totally peaceful, around 500 people of all faiths including approx. 30 people identifying as Jews (from banners and t-shirts etc) marched from the top of Oxford Road and past the protest camps opposite the Manchester Museum, I walked alongside them on the pavement with my daughter on my shoulders and there was not one hint of trouble. There were 3 people baiting the protesters from start to finish, and they were this clown Charlie Veitch and his two mates. They were moved on several times by the police (who had a visible but fairly low key operation) but kept coming back to antagonise. It's the second time I've seen him do it as I was at one of the original protests in town near the Arndale when he was doing exactly the same. The bloke's a fucking clown, in most walks of life he'd have got a smack in the mouth which is of course what he's hoping for for likes and views.........
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 9:29:59 GMT
Post by phileetin on Jun 12, 2024 9:29:59 GMT
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 9:41:01 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 12, 2024 9:41:01 GMT
That very moment, when you begin to wonder if everything you've ever been told, might actually be all a lie ... The worst thing about that The women has a small child in a pushchair What sort of human being puts a child through that level of trauma
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 11:26:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 11:26:40 GMT
I'm not, they have got an eye on keeping on side a sizeable portion of their support who have always been pro two state solution. It is if course a delicate balance given the nervousness caused by the claims of anti semitism under the Corbyn leadership. There is nothing controversial about the two state solution. The current US and UK governments are in the process of negotiating a two state solution through countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. A precondition is that the Palestinians have to drop Hamas as their political representatives. Labour are just announcing their support for the long term government policy on the matter. A two state solution sounds like a good idea (it’s better than nothing) until you see that there’s nothing left in Gaza. It’s been blown to pieces. How many decades will it be until it actually becomes livable again?
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 11:57:00 GMT
Post by lordb on Jun 12, 2024 11:57:00 GMT
There is nothing controversial about the two state solution. The current US and UK governments are in the process of negotiating a two state solution through countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. A precondition is that the Palestinians have to drop Hamas as their political representatives. Labour are just announcing their support for the long term government policy on the matter. A two state solution sounds like a good idea (it’s better than nothing) until you see that there’s nothing left in Gaza. It’s been blown to pieces. How many decades will it be until it actually becomes livable again? if the will was there it could be done very quickly as it was after WW2 in various destroyed cities
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 12, 2024 12:09:09 GMT
I don't think anyone would deny there are circumstances where Hamas are imbedded in the civilian population, I certainly wouldn't. But what I don't believe in any shape or form is every single indiscriminate attack is because Hamas are hidden amongst ordinary Palestinians, and neither do most of the organisations on the ground who witness this and are discredited by the Israeli government as anti-Semites and/or Hamas sympathisers. The IDF are serial liars, that's just a documented fact as far as I'm concerned. They've been doing it in the West Bank and Gaza way before Oct 7th...............
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Israel
Jun 12, 2024 12:40:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 12, 2024 12:40:42 GMT
A two state solution sounds like a good idea (it’s better than nothing) until you see that there’s nothing left in Gaza. It’s been blown to pieces. How many decades will it be until it actually becomes livable again? if the will was there it could be done very quickly as it was after WW2 in various destroyed cities Yes it could be done but would would require money from the international community which I think would happened there if a long term political solution is agreed. Without that the destruction will just happen again. On paper there may well be other solutions but the only one I can make out that anyone with any real influence is working on is the two state solution. No-one seems to be advocating a unified single state other than the Isreali government whose vision is either oppression or eradication of the Palestinian people or Iran and their allies who want the exact opposite.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 12, 2024 15:40:44 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 12, 2024 16:43:24 GMT
Where is Netanyahu and his war cabinet?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 13, 2024 7:25:30 GMT
Just to veer away from the conflict for a minute, if you want to know why the definition of anti-Semitism is so muddled these days, watch the first 15 minutes of this your head will explode (and the rest is interesting to be fair). When did anti-Semitism stop just being the hatred of Jews simply for being Jewish?
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Israel
Jun 13, 2024 10:37:00 GMT
Post by foster on Jun 13, 2024 10:37:00 GMT
That very moment, when you begin to wonder if everything you've ever been told, might actually be all a lie ... The worst thing about that The women has a small child in a pushchair What sort of human being puts a child through that level of trauma Would love it if there was a meme of her face when she says 'How are you people like this!!' and then we send her to Rwanda. Perfect ending.
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Israel
Jun 13, 2024 16:15:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by roylandstoke on Jun 13, 2024 16:15:57 GMT
Just to veer away from the conflict for a minute, if you want to know why the definition of anti-Semitism is so muddled these days, watch the first 15 minutes of this your head will explode (and the rest is interesting to be fair). When did anti-Semitism stop just being the hatred of Jews simply for being Jewish? Don’t know of it’s anti-Semitic but I found that man to be an arrogant, patronising twat.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 13, 2024 20:15:33 GMT
Literally came to post the same video. It's incredibly sad and hard to watch to be honest. The lady screaming hasn't done anything wrong but it shows the levels of indoctrination amongst some communities. Very sad to watch but I guess sort of highlights the complexities around Zionism and Israel too. I relate to it because the same indoctrination happens within Northern Ireland with protestants and catholics. I remember debating on the Internet in 2010 about Israel and being on the other side of the argument as its common for loyalist/Unionist communities to display Israel flags. And we were told that it's because the catholics support Palestine who are terrorists. It's only when you distance yourself from it and educate yourself independently that you begin to realise the levels of indoctrination within some communities and how its common for people to be shunned if they even question it. Luckily my parents weren't sectarian. But I can relate. And I think there's also comparisons that can be made between zionist extremism and Islamic extremism too. Couldn't agree with you more mate, as you say, it's a difficult watch but she's been subjected to a program of brainwashing all her life and when reality actually hits home, it's bound to be extremely painful. How can you so blithely dismiss this as the "reality of her own brainwashing" that is causing her reaction? She's displaying abject, incredulous horror at what she is seeing and it's entirely understandable, and justified, imo. Especially when the mob around her starts taunting her and chanting at her (and her infant child). It's intensely distressing to watch. I feel a bit like her when I occasionally dip into this thread to be honest
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Israel
Jun 13, 2024 22:43:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 13, 2024 22:43:35 GMT
Couldn't agree with you more mate, as you say, it's a difficult watch but she's been subjected to a program of brainwashing all her life and when reality actually hits home, it's bound to be extremely painful. How can you so blithely dismiss this as the "reality of her own brainwashing" that is causing her reaction? She's displaying abject, incredulous horror at what she is seeing What is it that you think she is reacting to?
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 14, 2024 1:19:55 GMT
How can you so blithely dismiss this as the "reality of her own brainwashing" that is causing her reaction? She's displaying abject, incredulous horror at what she is seeing What is it that you think she is reacting to? Something like a profound and visceral sense of abandonment and betrayal. Outrage at the existence of her (and their) homeland being attacked by her own people. The victim-blaming, the incredulity at them siding with the enemy in a war triggered by an unspeakably cruel antisemitic massacre. Quite possibly fear for her child’s future. That’s if I had to guess, obviously I can’t speak for her. You won’t agree with the legitimacy of that I’m sure. Fine, but I’m taking issue with the characterisation of her as “brainwashed”. Her reaction is emotional but understandable and in step with mainstream opinion - they are the radicals here, not her. This thread is now so completely one-sided that I think that kind of thing is lost.
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Israel
Jun 14, 2024 2:42:43 GMT
Post by wannabee on Jun 14, 2024 2:42:43 GMT
What is it that you think she is reacting to? Something like a profound and visceral sense of abandonment and betrayal. Outrage at the existence of her (and their) homeland being attacked by her own people. The victim-blaming, the incredulity at them siding with the enemy in a war triggered by an unspeakably cruel antisemitic massacre. Quite possibly fear for her child’s future. That’s if I had to guess, obviously I can’t speak for her. You won’t agree with the legitimacy of that I’m sure. Fine, but I’m taking issue with the characterisation of her as “brainwashed”. Her reaction is emotional but understandable and in step with mainstream opinion - they are the radicals here, not her. This thread is now so completely one-sided that I think that kind of thing is lost. To save Bandwidth I'll reply to both of your posts here I can accept that her actions were not as a result of "Brainwashing" but then logic follows that the Jewish group of men who were protesting against the Zionist Israeli Regime, were equally not Brainwashed, unless you contend otherwise. I also agree with you that it was extremely distressing that a Mother would irresponsibly endanger "an infant child" while intent on confronting and provoking a peaceful protest. Considering her partner or at least her friend was nearby, she had no reason to put her child in harms way if she was iso intent on causing a provocation., fortunately the peaceful protesters had no interest in rising to her provocations. I'm really not sure what mainstream you have canvassed when two days ago UNHCR said this GENEVA (12 June 2024) – Israeli authorities are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity committed during the military operations and attacks in Gaza since 7 October 2023, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, said in a new report today. The Commission also found that Palestinian armed groups are responsible for war crimes committed in Israel.
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