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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 29, 2024 22:06:10 GMT
So she had indeed worked out that Jaz couldn't (by his actions) be a traitor and that he had just simply made a mistake in suggesting that there actually was one left, so it was he who had to go for making that mistake, rather than Harry, who was on the same page as her in believing that all three of them were faithful?
If she (or anyone in that position) believes there are no traitors left, then as far as she's concerned she's having to get rid of a faithful and will then share the money with the other. In that position it's pretty obvious she's going to choose the person she's closest to and spent more time with isn't it? She HAS t o vote for someone, she clearly 100% thought they were both faithful which is why she chose to end the game. I don't get why you think that just because Jaz thought there was a traitor left then that somehow means Mollie must 100% believe he's right about it. It's not about whether Jaz was right or not, it's about Mollie making logical deductions when presented with the facts in front of her.
I think we have both agreed that she knew that Jaz couldn't (based on his actions) be a traitor but she couldn't have established the same guarantee with Harry (he wanted to end it there and then).
Ergo, there was still a chance (no matter how slim in her mind) that Harry was a traitor. Therefore, the only way she can lose, is to not vote Harry out. She's in a win/win situation, if she votes Harry out and he isn't a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 33% to 50% (without any risk to herself) and if Harry is a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 0% to 50%.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 29, 2024 22:24:19 GMT
If she (or anyone in that position) believes there are no traitors left, then as far as she's concerned she's having to get rid of a faithful and will then share the money with the other. In that position it's pretty obvious she's going to choose the person she's closest to and spent more time with isn't it? She HAS t o vote for someone, she clearly 100% thought they were both faithful which is why she chose to end the game. I don't get why you think that just because Jaz thought there was a traitor left then that somehow means Mollie must 100% believe he's right about it. It's not about whether Jaz was right or not, it's about Mollie making logical deductions when presented with the facts in front of her.
I think we have both agreed that she knew that Jaz couldn't (based on his actions) be a traitor but she couldn't have established the same guarantee with Harry (he wanted to end it there and then).
Ergo, there was still a chance (no matter how slim in her mind) that Harry was a traitor. Therefore, the only way she can lose, is to not vote Harry out. She's in a win/win situation, if she votes Harry out and he isn't a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 33% to 50% (without any risk to herself) and if Harry is a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 0% to 50%. If you're going from a purely financial sense, then yes I totally agree. As you say, if she thinks both are faithfuls then she's still increasing her pot share anyway. I just don't think she was feeling that ruthless about the monetary side of it by then. She was clearly finding the entire final round table emotionally difficult in general, regardless of the Harry situation. I genuinely think, she actually was amazed she'd even got that far and was happy to take £30k she never thought she'd get and just get it finished. I don't think that not going for as much as possible makes her thick though, just grateful for what she thought she'd got.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 29, 2024 22:49:14 GMT
It's not about whether Jaz was right or not, it's about Mollie making logical deductions when presented with the facts in front of her.
I think we have both agreed that she knew that Jaz couldn't (based on his actions) be a traitor but she couldn't have established the same guarantee with Harry (he wanted to end it there and then).
Ergo, there was still a chance (no matter how slim in her mind) that Harry was a traitor. Therefore, the only way she can lose, is to not vote Harry out. She's in a win/win situation, if she votes Harry out and he isn't a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 33% to 50% (without any risk to herself) and if Harry is a traitor, then she's just increased her share of the pot from 0% to 50%. If you're going from a purely financial sense, then yes I totally agree. As you say, if she thinks both are faithfuls then she's still increasing her pot share anyway. I just don't think she was feeling that ruthless about the monetary side of it by then. She was clearly finding the entire final round table emotionally difficult in general, regardless of the Harry situation. I genuinely think, she actually was amazed she'd even got that far and was happy to take £30k she never thought she'd get and just get it finished. I don't think that not going for as much as possible makes her thick though, just grateful for what she thought she'd got.
That was the entire point of the competition.
And she could have guaranteed herself money by deduction.
But she didn't, she messed up.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 29, 2024 23:07:29 GMT
If you're going from a purely financial sense, then yes I totally agree. As you say, if she thinks both are faithfuls then she's still increasing her pot share anyway. I just don't think she was feeling that ruthless about the monetary side of it by then. She was clearly finding the entire final round table emotionally difficult in general, regardless of the Harry situation. I genuinely think, she actually was amazed she'd even got that far and was happy to take £30k she never thought she'd get and just get it finished. I don't think that not going for as much as possible makes her thick though, just grateful for what she thought she'd got.
That was the entire point of the competition.
And she could have guaranteed herself money by deduction.
But she didn't, she messed up.
I don't think she was ever ruthless enough to be going for the whole pot herself. Like I say, she was very emotional before she found out Harry was a traitor so was just wanting the game to end and genuinely thought it was with 2 faithfuls. It's easy for us to say how we'd strategise sat in our armchairs after seeing everything on TV that none of them did and we also have no idea how stressful it was for them. In the aftershow Harry himself said how totally drained everyone was towards the end. Being forced to only see/speak to/interact with people who you know you can't trust and some are 100% definitely lying to you every single day for days on end can't be a particularly fun or positive environment to be in. I genuinely thought she was happy to share it 3 ways rather than push her luck for more dosh and she just wanted to get the whole thing over with. I don't think any of that makes someone thick.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 29, 2024 23:12:10 GMT
I’m not sure how many more series the show can run for in its current state. I said this at work today but there’s always got to be a traitor in the final hasn’t there? For it to be interesting.
I wonder how hard it is as a contestant to think like a producer when you’re in the game because when you do that, more things become easier to work out.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 29, 2024 23:14:42 GMT
That was the entire point of the competition.
And she could have guaranteed herself money by deduction.
But she didn't, she messed up.
I don't think she was ever ruthless enough to be going for the whole pot herself. Like I say, she was very emotional before she found out Harry was a traitor so was just wanting the game to end and genuinely thought it was with 2 faithfuls. It's easy for us to say how we'd strategise sat in our armchairs after seeing everything on TV that none of them did and we also have no idea how stressful it was for them. In the aftershow Harry himself said how totally drained everyone was towards the end. Being forced to only see/speak to/interact with people who you know you can't trust and some are 100% definitely lying to you every single day for days on end can't be a particularly fun or positive environment to be in. I genuinely thought she was happy to share it 3 ways rather than push her luck for more dosh and she just wanted to get the whole thing over with. I don't think any of that makes someone thick. She might indeed have been happy to share it three ways. But in being happy to do that, she ended up with nowt. That's why Harry won and she ended up with fuck all, she simply wasn't up to it. For the first time in the entire show, she had to do some deduction and she was found massively wanting, the biggest loser was actually Jaz.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 29, 2024 23:26:07 GMT
I don't think she was ever ruthless enough to be going for the whole pot herself. Like I say, she was very emotional before she found out Harry was a traitor so was just wanting the game to end and genuinely thought it was with 2 faithfuls. It's easy for us to say how we'd strategise sat in our armchairs after seeing everything on TV that none of them did and we also have no idea how stressful it was for them. In the aftershow Harry himself said how totally drained everyone was towards the end. Being forced to only see/speak to/interact with people who you know you can't trust and some are 100% definitely lying to you every single day for days on end can't be a particularly fun or positive environment to be in. I genuinely thought she was happy to share it 3 ways rather than push her luck for more dosh and she just wanted to get the whole thing over with. I don't think any of that makes someone thick. She might indeed have been happy to share it three ways. But in being happy to do that, she ended up with nowt. That's why Harry won and she ended up with fuck all, she simply wasn't up to it. Mentally/emotionally maybe not at that final table but that doesn't make someone dim. It just means they went through a situation that none of us did whilst we sat at home, comfy and not having to live in a backstabbing, bitchy environment with literally everyone around us for days on end. I'm pretty sure that you (and all of us) would make a wrong decision at some point if we were actually in there, maybe due to the pressure of the environment, maybe due to emotions but I certainly wouldn't think that would make you dim or stupid. Human, yes. You're basing it all on what she could have won (and the fact she "got nowt" is hindsight...no-one apart from Jaz thought they may be a traitor left and even Jaz wasn't sure himself) and I just don't think that her not being ruthless enough to go for more of the pot makes someone dim at all. I've mentioned how emotional they were, how Harry said they were all drained i.e. am basing it on what the players themselves said. You're basing it on you watching it on telly with no pressure and not having been through it. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a young person to think "You know what? I never thought I'd even get to the final,so the first chance of getting a decent wedge, I'm taking it" especially when she's already in bloody tears over the whole thing.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 30, 2024 0:39:18 GMT
She might indeed have been happy to share it three ways. But in being happy to do that, she ended up with nowt. That's why Harry won and she ended up with fuck all, she simply wasn't up to it. Mentally/emotionally maybe not at that final table but that doesn't make someone dim. It just means they went through a situation that none of us did whilst we sat at home, comfy and not having to live in a backstabbing, bitchy environment with literally everyone around us for days on end. I'm pretty sure that you (and all of us) would make a wrong decision at some point if we were actually in there, maybe due to the pressure of the environment, maybe due to emotions but I certainly wouldn't think that would make you dim or stupid. Human, yes. You're basing it all on what she could have won (and the fact she "got nowt" is hindsight...no-one apart from Jaz thought they may be a traitor left and even Jaz wasn't sure himself) and I just don't think that her not being ruthless enough to go for more of the pot makes someone dim at all. I've mentioned how emotional they were, how Harry said they were all drained i.e. am basing it on what the players themselves said. You're basing it on you watching it on telly with no pressure and not having been through it. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a young person to think "You know what? I never thought I'd even get to the final,so the first chance of getting a decent wedge, I'm taking it" especially when she's already in bloody tears over the whole thing. Yeah, that's what I said ... she wasn't up to it. Harry and Jaz were. It's like saying, when we're watching MOTD that we shouldn't comment from the comfort of our arm chairs on whether the contestants in that competition had what it takes to win. The entire POINT of the programme is for people to be able to sit at home, in the comfort of their own arm chairs and be able to comment on the performance of the CONTESTANTS (she wasn't dragged off the streets against her will to play you know). At the end of the day, she wasn't a very good contestant, to be a successful contestant, you needed to be able to compete under pressure, keep your emotions intact and be both logical and ruthless when necessary. By your own admission, she wasn't any of those things.
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Post by ParaPsych on Jan 30, 2024 0:55:06 GMT
Mentally/emotionally maybe not at that final table but that doesn't make someone dim. It just means they went through a situation that none of us did whilst we sat at home, comfy and not having to live in a backstabbing, bitchy environment with literally everyone around us for days on end. I'm pretty sure that you (and all of us) would make a wrong decision at some point if we were actually in there, maybe due to the pressure of the environment, maybe due to emotions but I certainly wouldn't think that would make you dim or stupid. Human, yes. You're basing it all on what she could have won (and the fact she "got nowt" is hindsight...no-one apart from Jaz thought they may be a traitor left and even Jaz wasn't sure himself) and I just don't think that her not being ruthless enough to go for more of the pot makes someone dim at all. I've mentioned how emotional they were, how Harry said they were all drained i.e. am basing it on what the players themselves said. You're basing it on you watching it on telly with no pressure and not having been through it. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a young person to think "You know what? I never thought I'd even get to the final,so the first chance of getting a decent wedge, I'm taking it" especially when she's already in bloody tears over the whole thing. Yeah, that's what I said ... she wasn't up to it. Harry and Jaz were. It's like saying, when we're watching MOTD that we shouldn't comment from the comfort of our arm chairs on whether the contestants in that competition had what it takes to win. The entire POINT of the programme is for people to be able to sit at home, in the comfort of their own arm chairs and be able to comment on the performance of the CONTESTANTS (she wasn't dragged off the streets against her will to play you know). At the end of the day, she wasn't a very good contestant, to be a successful contestant, you needed to be able to compete under pressure, keep your emotions intact and be both logical and ruthless when necessary. By your own admission, she wasn't any of those things. She wasn't a very good contestant, but it made for great TV. If everyone was logical and ruthless I do wonder if it'd have quite the same pull. It'd just be an extended version of Jasper Carrot's Golden Balls.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 30, 2024 0:58:18 GMT
Yeah, that's what I said ... she wasn't up to it. Harry and Jaz were. It's like saying, when we're watching MOTD that we shouldn't comment from the comfort of our arm chairs on whether the contestants in that competition had what it takes to win. The entire POINT of the programme is for people to be able to sit at home, in the comfort of their own arm chairs and be able to comment on the performance of the CONTESTANTS (she wasn't dragged off the streets against her will to play you know). At the end of the day, she wasn't a very good contestant, to be a successful contestant, you needed to be able to compete under pressure, keep your emotions intact and be both logical and ruthless when necessary. By your own admission, she wasn't any of those things. She wasn't a very good contestant, but it made for great TV. If everyone was logical and ruthless I do wonder if it'd have quite the same pull. It'd just be an extended version of Jasper Carrot's Golden Balls. Exactly.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 30, 2024 1:38:38 GMT
Mentally/emotionally maybe not at that final table but that doesn't make someone dim. It just means they went through a situation that none of us did whilst we sat at home, comfy and not having to live in a backstabbing, bitchy environment with literally everyone around us for days on end. I'm pretty sure that you (and all of us) would make a wrong decision at some point if we were actually in there, maybe due to the pressure of the environment, maybe due to emotions but I certainly wouldn't think that would make you dim or stupid. Human, yes. You're basing it all on what she could have won (and the fact she "got nowt" is hindsight...no-one apart from Jaz thought they may be a traitor left and even Jaz wasn't sure himself) and I just don't think that her not being ruthless enough to go for more of the pot makes someone dim at all. I've mentioned how emotional they were, how Harry said they were all drained i.e. am basing it on what the players themselves said. You're basing it on you watching it on telly with no pressure and not having been through it. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a young person to think "You know what? I never thought I'd even get to the final,so the first chance of getting a decent wedge, I'm taking it" especially when she's already in bloody tears over the whole thing. Yeah, that's what I said ... she wasn't up to it. Harry and Jaz were. It's like saying, when we're watching MOTD that we shouldn't comment from the comfort of our arm chairs on whether the contestants in that competition had what it takes to win. The entire POINT of the programme is for people to be able to sit at home, in the comfort of their own arm chairs and be able to comment on the performance of the CONTESTANTS (she wasn't dragged off the streets against her will to play you know). At the end of the day, she wasn't a very good contestant, to be a successful contestant, you needed to be able to compete under pressure, keep your emotions intact and be both logical and ruthless when necessary. By your own admission, she wasn't any of those things. Calm down Paul it's only a TV show, you don't HAVE to be right you know? The bizarre thing is that one of your first posts to me was I being "a bit harsh on Jaz" because I poimted out he lost it himself by thinking he could oust a traitor by literally doing nothing, whilst you're here calling a decision a young girl made which she thought would secure her a life changing amount at her age, whilst in floods of tears "compete idiocy" and "she wasn't up to it". This isn't the military for Christ's sake, give the girl a break. Chill!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 30, 2024 1:42:39 GMT
Yeah, that's what I said ... she wasn't up to it. Harry and Jaz were. It's like saying, when we're watching MOTD that we shouldn't comment from the comfort of our arm chairs on whether the contestants in that competition had what it takes to win. The entire POINT of the programme is for people to be able to sit at home, in the comfort of their own arm chairs and be able to comment on the performance of the CONTESTANTS (she wasn't dragged off the streets against her will to play you know). At the end of the day, she wasn't a very good contestant, to be a successful contestant, you needed to be able to compete under pressure, keep your emotions intact and be both logical and ruthless when necessary. By your own admission, she wasn't any of those things. Calm down Paul it's only a TV show, you don't HAVE to be right you know? The bizarre thing is that one of your first posts to me was I being "a bit harsh on Jaz" because I poimted out he lost it himself by thinking he could oust a traitor by literally doing nothing, whilst you're here calling a decision a young girl made which she thought would secure her a life changing amount at her age, whilst in floods of tears "compete idiocy" and "she wasn't up to it". This isn't the military for Christ's sake, give the girl a break. Chill!
I think you might need to find yourself a mirror Millsy.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 30, 2024 5:53:24 GMT
Anyone watching the Australian version?... and I thought the faithful in the UK one were gullible idiots 🤣🤣 quite entertaining though when you get into it tbf.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 30, 2024 6:11:50 GMT
Interesting chat from you lot, cheers 👍
I thought like Paul Spencer overall, Molly failed at deduction. But then the emotional pain (to her) of kicking out Harry if he were faithful might have been too much. So from that point of view it could have been logical.
She deserved to lose. I think Jaz did about the best he could, he didn't have the easy charm of Paul or Harry so had to bide his time. If Molly thought rationally and really wanted to win then he would have pulled it off.
Overall a blinding performance from Harry.
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Post by mrnovember on Jan 30, 2024 7:19:11 GMT
Anyone watching the Australian version?... and I thought the faithful in the UK one were gullible idiots 🤣🤣 quite entertaining though when you get into it tbf. Binged season 2 over the last week or two. They're all absolute fuckwits it's ridiculous.
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Post by deeside2 on Jan 30, 2024 8:51:17 GMT
Not seen the Aussie one yet, was planning to take a look this weekend. Is it worth watching ? What about the U.S. version - any good ?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 30, 2024 9:31:37 GMT
Not seen the Aussie one yet, was planning to take a look this weekend. Is it worth watching ? What about the U.S. version - any good ? I really enjoyed the aussie version season 1 but they've followed the American route and planted 3 or 4 "famous" people in for season 2 for some reason. There are also 9 episodes instead of 12 but I'd say it's worth watching for the sheer stupidity alone, some of the banishments really are crazy.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jan 30, 2024 9:56:53 GMT
Just wondering what would have happened if Andrew was the final Traitor and the three remaining individuals were all Faithful.
Would they have stopped the game there or made them go again, as they did do?
I suspect the latter, in which case in future seasons it's entirely plausible now that we'll see Faithfuls banish another at the end and f*ck them out of thousands of pounds.
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Post by adri2008 on Jan 30, 2024 13:58:29 GMT
Just wondering what would have happened if Andrew was the final Traitor and the three remaining individuals were all Faithful. Would they have stopped the game there or made them go again, as they did do? I suspect the latter, in which case in future seasons it's entirely plausible now that we'll see Faithfuls banish another at the end and f*ck them out of thousands of pounds. It's up to them to bring it to a close isn't it? - I think if in any doubt at all, you have to get rid as a faithful which will no doubt eventually lead to someone missing out at the very end. I guess it's only like a normal banishment though - just a bit more brutal as you are on the edge of getting a share of the money. It's what I found frustrating about Mollie - Jaz had made things extremely easy for her and from a logically perspective, there was no decision to make apart from take your guaranteed £45k.
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Post by lordb on Jan 30, 2024 15:12:31 GMT
Anyone watching the Australian version?... and I thought the faithful in the UK one were gullible idiots 🤣🤣 quite entertaining though when you get into it tbf. First series is brilliant couldn't watch the second series, turned off halfway through the first episode
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 30, 2024 15:31:58 GMT
Just wondering what would have happened if Andrew was the final Traitor and the three remaining individuals were all Faithful. Would they have stopped the game there or made them go again, as they did do? I suspect the latter, in which case in future seasons it's entirely plausible now that we'll see Faithfuls banish another at the end and f*ck them out of thousands of pounds. It's up to them to bring it to a close isn't it? - I think if in any doubt at all, you have to get rid as a faithful which will no doubt eventually lead to someone missing out at the very end. I guess it's only like a normal banishment though - just a bit more brutal as you are on the edge of getting a share of the money.It's what I found frustrating about Mollie - Jaz had made things extremely easy for her and from a logically perspective, there was no decision to make apart from take your guaranteed £45k. From the edit, this is why I'd have thought it was obvious Harry was a traitor. You'd be going fcuking ballistic if you were a faithful and Jaz was about to shaft you of your 3rd. He was still so calm.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 30, 2024 16:19:39 GMT
IMO, people will learn from this season and act differently next season. Then there'll be emotional people like Mollie who can't understand why there are these new strategies and that'll create new drama and twists.
Could keep it fresh for longer.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 30, 2024 16:54:24 GMT
Anyone watching the Australian version?... and I thought the faithful in the UK one were gullible idiots 🤣🤣 quite entertaining though when you get into it tbf. First series is brilliant couldn't watch the second series, turned off halfway through the first episode I felt like turning it off too but it won me around again.
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Post by mrnovember on Jan 30, 2024 16:54:34 GMT
Would it work if, as viewers, we weren't told who The Traitors were? Just trying to think of ways to keep it fresh. A few pages back, someone mentioned being able to donate the shield which I thought was a good idea.
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Post by skip on Jan 30, 2024 17:20:16 GMT
Would it work if, as viewers, we weren't told who The Traitors were? Just trying to think of ways to keep it fresh. A few pages back, someone mentioned being able to donate the shield which I thought was a good idea. The game will undoubtedly change each series. This time, no one was kicked out of the original line, and no-one brought back in. As Harry won by recruiting and killing traitors, everyone will be on their game with that method. It has to change each time to prevent people applying to enter thinking they can beat the system. It's one reason why it is such smart television.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 30, 2024 18:49:39 GMT
Definitely think that in season 3, the reward for correctly pulling the sword out of the stone, should mean you are given the opportunity to kill one of the others in plain sight.
That would be so unbelievably brutal.
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Post by skip on Jan 30, 2024 22:07:00 GMT
Definitely think that in season 3, the reward for correctly pulling the sword out of the stone, should mean you are given the opportunity to kill one of the others in plain sight. That would be so unbelievably brutal. I was hoping that was going to be the reward. And then I did think, perhaps a bit much.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 30, 2024 22:44:26 GMT
Definitely think that in season 3, the reward for correctly pulling the sword out of the stone, should mean you are given the opportunity to kill one of the others in plain sight. That would be so unbelievably brutal. I think they need to do more killing in plain sight in general i.e. the Miles/Diana type. They need to level the playing the field somehow and give the faithfuls at least some kind of a chance and keep the traitors on their toes, and it could make for some great suspense, making everyone have to quite literally watch their back all day. Will be interesting to see the new twists next series P.S. soz about last night fella. no offence meant
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Post by deeside2 on Jan 31, 2024 6:54:00 GMT
I watched some of the first series of U.S Traitors last night. There are some horrendous characters aren't there - Brandy and Kate in particular. I might just skip to the final episode, don't think I can stand watching them all the way through.
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Post by scarlet on Feb 6, 2024 11:48:19 GMT
I’ve just finished season 2 of the Aussie version. Well worth a watch. Quite a few loose cannons in there and the last few round tables were insane.
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