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Post by metalhead on Dec 2, 2022 23:03:43 GMT
Well, that article depicts a bunch of simpletons to me who seem to have spent half a life trying to figure out things that many, possibly most, of us had figured out by the age of 10. But, of course, it carries a typical Guardian overtone as well. The article is interesting for two reasons: 1. It is kicking a religion that's on its arse right now. Nothing like kicking someone on the floor. 2. The big one... It essentially states the opinion that Christianity needs reform. Now that second one very very interesting isn't it? I couldn't agree more that the MAJORITY of religions require reform, Christianity is one of them for sure... Wonder if there's any others?
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Post by musik on Dec 3, 2022 3:00:54 GMT
Those people aren't ready for it yet. It shows clearly in their questions, they have all the wrong perspective and a lot to learn. But in time it will come. It seems to me they only went to church by tradition.
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Post by musik on Dec 3, 2022 3:03:36 GMT
I used to be an athiest but I don't think I am these days. Agnostic/spiritual as you say. It's a strange transition actually and must be far rarer than the opposite. There's a film from 2011 called The Tree of Life. It's an artsy film and, the first time I watched it, I spent most of it wondering when the fuck it was going to start...but it became embedded into my consciousness so I watched it again at a later date. There's a 15 or so minute scene (that sadly I can't find on youtube anymore) that attempts to show the origin of the universe/life up to the present day. Galaxy/star formation / the transition from prokaryote to eukaryote / the evolution of life / the first act of compassion / the apocalypse of the dinosaurs that paved the way for the rise of mammals / etc etc. The start of this scene is showing the creation of the early universe to the soundtrack of Lacrimosa. As barmy as it might sound, on the second viewing, I was deeply moved to a point that could only be described as feeling like a "religious experience". I've seen the Derren Brown episode where he induces this same feeling in an atheist, so I'm obviously sceptical of my own intuition. But the idea that there isn't more depth to existence than what we can perceive, has stopped making sense to me. At the core of most (if not all?) religions is an attempt to connect with this sense of spirituality. But humans are fucked up animals and that primary aim can get lost in a fog of evil & corruption. Agnosticism seems, to me at least, to be the sensible position to take. No-one can ever know one way or the other whether there is or isn't anything beyond the world around us, in which case, to be entirely open-minded about it seems the best decision. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to be similarly non-critical about all that is done in the name of religion, good and bad. Aa, so you don't want to close every door. That's a good start.
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Post by musik on Dec 3, 2022 3:07:42 GMT
I follow no religion but I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic... open minded. Religion isn't all crap. Many of the most beautiful buildings in the world were built by those who followed a religion, but I just wish they would walk in there, say their piece, and then leave everybody else to get on with their own lives. Religion is only bad when it becomes a cult and those who follow it will do anything to harm others. I suppose I'm a bit spiritual. Some religious music can move me to tears, so maybe real religion is the inexplicable soul inside all of us that reacts to love and beautiful sounds and sights. OS. The point is: It stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others.
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Post by musik on Dec 3, 2022 10:42:02 GMT
I once died in this life and went to Heaven. I got the answers to many question there. I had lived more than 1 million lives so there was no more existence for me to learn about. I could stay and be close united to the Creator. Most creatures of course haven't lived that long and havn't a choice. But I did choose to return; once more. But if You wonder something about life and existence, why we're here or something, I might help. Please take it seriously. Do you think that is a unique experience, or do you think that others may have had that experience? Every individual is unique and so therefore every experience is unique. Noone could have had the exact same experience, but what's interesting is that many have shared similar experiences. It happened to me 20+ years ago, and about 10 years after that I read about people with similar experiences and it said it didn't matter if they were christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists or atheists, they had all experienced "the same thing", meaning the tunnel, the light, the place they got to and all that.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 3, 2022 12:14:47 GMT
Do you think that is a unique experience, or do you think that others may have had that experience? Every individual is unique and so therefore every experience is unique. Noone could have had the exact same experience, but what's interesting is that many have shared similar experiences. It happened to me 20+ years ago, and about 10 years after that I read about people with similar experiences and it said it didn't matter if they were christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists or atheists, they had all experienced "the same thing", meaning the tunnel, the light, the place they got to and all that. “ I once died in this life and went to Heaven. I got the answers to many question there. I had lived more than 1 million lives so there was no more existence for me to learn about. I could stay and be close united to the Creator. Most creatures of course haven't lived that long and havn't a choice. But I did choose to return; once more.” How did you become aware of your answers and how did you become aware that you have lived more than one million lives? Were all of these lives lived as a human? You said earlier that there is no one more religious than you. You still haven’t explained that to me. Does it mean that you think you have reached some kind of higher or highest astral plane or whatever you may call it. And, if so, why did you choose to return? And finally, for now, is the life you are living now the same life that you were living when you “died” about 20+ years ago, or is this counted as a different life? Sorry for so many questions. I’m not taking the piss or anything, and am genuinely interested in your answers.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 3, 2022 13:38:25 GMT
Agnosticism seems, to me at least, to be the sensible position to take. No-one can ever know one way or the other whether there is or isn't anything beyond the world around us, in which case, to be entirely open-minded about it seems the best decision. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to be similarly non-critical about all that is done in the name of religion, good and bad. Aa, so you don't want to close every door. That's a good start. Of course not. As I said, people's individual personal faith doesn't bother or affect me at all. If you look at their modern lives and compare them to how their chosen sacred texts say they should be living, I think the hypocrisy is pretty plain to see, but as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, that hypocrisy of living a modern life at odds with what their sacred text tells them is a long way from being the biggest crime in the world! Had a nice chat yesterday with a bloke I bought a tree off and he ended with "god bless", so presumably he was a Christian. Perfectly pleasant and nice way to end a conversation, I thought, just not something that ever occurs to me to say because I don't have any active faith. It's the industry of organised religion, its power, history of corruption and abuses and on-going influence that I have the problem with.
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Post by musik on Dec 3, 2022 19:13:10 GMT
Every individual is unique and so therefore every experience is unique. Noone could have had the exact same experience, but what's interesting is that many have shared similar experiences. It happened to me 20+ years ago, and about 10 years after that I read about people with similar experiences and it said it didn't matter if they were christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists or atheists, they had all experienced "the same thing", meaning the tunnel, the light, the place they got to and all that. “ I once died in this life and went to Heaven. I got the answers to many question there. I had lived more than 1 million lives so there was no more existence for me to learn about. I could stay and be close united to the Creator. Most creatures of course haven't lived that long and havn't a choice. But I did choose to return; once more.” 1) How did you become aware of your answers and how did you become aware that you have lived more than one million lives? 2) Were all of these lives lived as a human? You said earlier that there is no one more religious than you. You still haven’t explained that to me. 3) Does it mean that you think you have reached some kind of higher or highest astral plane or whatever you may call it. 4) And, if so, why did you choose to return? 5) And finally, for now, is the life you are living now the same life that you were living when you “died” about 20+ years ago, or is this counted as a different life? Sorry for so many questions. I’m not taking the piss or anything, and am genuinely interested in your answers. 1) I became aware since I was told by transmission. 2) I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it. 3) It's all about levels of knowledge. Gathering. And when you've lived an enough amount of lives you won't be blinded by the lights there anymore when you return, that's for beginners. 4) Since it was my own fault, I hadn't listened to my body signals. It wasn't time. I felt I had still more things to accomplish. Besides, there were no women ... And to answer one of the most frequent questions I get, No, I didn't recognize one single person I've known in life. 5) It's the same life but still with some bodily differences.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 3, 2022 21:39:12 GMT
Always get a chuckle on here from the people who claim to be Christians but who’d have considered Jesus a snowflake.
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Post by musik on Dec 4, 2022 12:57:22 GMT
Always get a chuckle on here from the people who claim to be Christians but who’d have considered Jesus a snowflake. You mean they think Jesus could transform into anything?
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Post by musik on Dec 4, 2022 13:07:58 GMT
You refer to reincarnation (or at least some form of that), which is usually more of a feature of Eastern religion than the Abrahamic faiths. Is there a recognised religion that your belief is aligned with? No. People have given names to a variety of different religions. But the aim with all true religions is always the same.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 4, 2022 13:31:12 GMT
“ I once died in this life and went to Heaven. I got the answers to many question there. I had lived more than 1 million lives so there was no more existence for me to learn about. I could stay and be close united to the Creator. Most creatures of course haven't lived that long and havn't a choice. But I did choose to return; once more.” 1) How did you become aware of your answers and how did you become aware that you have lived more than one million lives? 2) Were all of these lives lived as a human? You said earlier that there is no one more religious than you. You still haven’t explained that to me. 3) Does it mean that you think you have reached some kind of higher or highest astral plane or whatever you may call it. 4) And, if so, why did you choose to return? 5) And finally, for now, is the life you are living now the same life that you were living when you “died” about 20+ years ago, or is this counted as a different life? Sorry for so many questions. I’m not taking the piss or anything, and am genuinely interested in your answers. 1) I became aware since I was told by transmission. 2) I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it. 3) It's all about levels of knowledge. Gathering. And when you've lived an enough amount of lives you won't be blinded by the lights there anymore when you return, that's for beginners. 4) Since it was my own fault, I hadn't listened to my body signals. It wasn't time. I felt I had still more things to accomplish. Besides, there were no women ... And to answer one of the most frequent questions I get, No, I didn't recognize one single person I've known in life. 5) It's the same life but still with some bodily differences. “ I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it.” Have you lived all of these lives here on Earth? Does a new life begin at the very moment the old one ends for you?
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 4, 2022 13:50:25 GMT
I follow no religion but I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic... open minded. Religion isn't all crap. Many of the most beautiful buildings in the world were built by those who followed a religion, but I just wish they would walk in there, say their piece, and then leave everybody else to get on with their own lives. Religion is only bad when it becomes a cult and those who follow it will do anything to harm others. I suppose I'm a bit spiritual. Some religious music can move me to tears, so maybe real religion is the inexplicable soul inside all of us that reacts to love and beautiful sounds and sights. OS. The point is: It stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others. Not so, musik. Following a religion is just a tool for those who for those who need a vehicle to see beyond normal existence. To get to the plane of existence where you seem to be, you don't need to follow any religion to do it. For many who follow a religion, they cannot follow that religion without they harm others who they believe don't follow in the 'true faith'. And in many cases, they will even harm others who follow their own faith but don't take the same route to get there. For examples, Protestant/Catholic: Sunni/Shia. Whatever, your views on reincarnation have certainly opened a Pandora's Box. I like it. To help you in your cause, my late wife once woke me up because I was having a dream and talking in my sleep in fluent Chinese. OS.
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Post by elystokie on Dec 4, 2022 13:51:51 GMT
1) I became aware since I was told by transmission. 2) I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it. 3) It's all about levels of knowledge. Gathering. And when you've lived an enough amount of lives you won't be blinded by the lights there anymore when you return, that's for beginners. 4) Since it was my own fault, I hadn't listened to my body signals. It wasn't time. I felt I had still more things to accomplish. Besides, there were no women ... And to answer one of the most frequent questions I get, No, I didn't recognize one single person I've known in life. 5) It's the same life but still with some bodily differences. “ I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it.” Have you lived all of these lives here on Earth? Does a new life begin at the very moment the old one ends for you? Reminds me of Quantum Leap that used to be on the telebox a while back, good wholesome TV and always a moral tale
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2022 13:57:03 GMT
“ I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it.” Have you lived all of these lives here on Earth? Does a new life begin at the very moment the old one ends for you? Reminds me of Quantum Leap that used to be on the telebox a while back, good wholesome TV and always a moral tale "Oh, boy..."!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 4, 2022 14:14:08 GMT
The point is: It stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others. Not so, musik. Following a religion is just a tool for those who for those who need a vehicle to see beyond normal existence. To get to the plane of existence where you seem to be, you don't need to follow any religion to do it. For many who follow a religion, they cannot follow that religion without they harm others who they believe don't follow in the 'true faith'. And in many cases, they will even harm others who follow their own faith but don't take the same route to get there. For examples, Protestant/Catholic: Sunni/Shia. Whatever, your views on reincarnation have certainly opened a Pandora's Box. I like it. To help you in your cause, my late wife once woke me up because I was having a dream and talking in my sleep in fluent Chinese. OS. Mandarin or Cantonese?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2022 14:25:18 GMT
Not so, musik. Following a religion is just a tool for those who for those who need a vehicle to see beyond normal existence. To get to the plane of existence where you seem to be, you don't need to follow any religion to do it. For many who follow a religion, they cannot follow that religion without they harm others who they believe don't follow in the 'true faith'. And in many cases, they will even harm others who follow their own faith but don't take the same route to get there. For examples, Protestant/Catholic: Sunni/Shia. Whatever, your views on reincarnation have certainly opened a Pandora's Box. I like it. To help you in your cause, my late wife once woke me up because I was having a dream and talking in my sleep in fluent Chinese. OS. Mandarin or Cantonese? And how did she know?!
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 4, 2022 14:44:45 GMT
She said it was "Chinese" simply because it sounded Oriental. It could have been ancient Martian for all I know. Maybe, following music's experiences, I'm descended from a Mongolian Emperor. She said I was ranting at somebody. OS.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 4, 2022 15:39:45 GMT
Christianity or any other Religion, is just brain washing people into believing in their God, Gods.
Just an ancient Way of keeping you into towing the line.
If you have a loved one who is really ill,they pray to God to help,but if they die,it's Gods will.They can't lose,they have all the bases covered.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 4, 2022 17:20:33 GMT
“ I haven't lived all these lives as a human, far from it.” Have you lived all of these lives here on Earth? Does a new life begin at the very moment the old one ends for you? Reminds me of Quantum Leap that used to be on the telebox a while back, good wholesome TV and always a moral tale I don’t remember that programme, but I do remember the Sinclair Q.L.
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Post by musik on Dec 4, 2022 19:33:41 GMT
The point is: It stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others. Not so, musik. Following a religion is just a tool for those who for those who need a vehicle to see beyond normal existence. To get to the plane of existence where you seem to be, you don't need to follow any religion to do it. For many who follow a religion, they cannot follow that religion without they harm others who they believe don't follow in the 'true faith'. And in many cases, they will even harm others who follow their own faith but don't take the same route to get there. For examples, Protestant/Catholic: Sunni/Shia. Whatever, your views on reincarnation have certainly opened a Pandora's Box. I like it. To help you in your cause, my late wife once woke me up because I was having a dream and talking in my sleep in fluent Chinese. OS. Religion means reverance of the sacred or worship of God. You wrote "for many who follow a religion, they can't follow that religion without (doing) harm (to) others who they believe don't follow in the true faith". But if they do that, they aren't worshiping God. That's why I wrote "it stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others". And you wrote: "To get to the plane of existence, you don't need to follow any religion to do it". You must figure it out by yourself how to get the gift. It doesn't guarantee you will be a religious person just because you join an organized way to worship God, a certain -ism. On the contrary, seeking the truth is about going inside. So, to clarify, religious and religion is about reverance of the sacred. Therefore, harming others is a contradiction.
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Post by dexter97 on Dec 5, 2022 9:37:40 GMT
Those people aren't ready for it yet. It shows clearly in their questions, they have all the wrong perspective and a lot to learn. But in time it will come. It seems to me they only went to church by tradition. That’s true of most people, I suspect. Like most people of my age, I grew up a Christian. I went to C of E primary and secondary schools, attended church regularly for a year or two when I was a lad (even serving as an altar boy for a while), did well in my ‘O’ Level RE (there wasn’t much I didn’t know about the Synoptic Gospels), and even though I’d long since renounced the faith before I left school, I enjoyed studying religion, thanks mainly to an excellent teacher. I feel that I hold my atheist views from a reasonably well-informed position, unlike many God-fearing types, to whom the Bible might as well be an End User Licence Agreement – Just scroll to the bottom without reading it and click on ‘I Agree’. I’m quite a scientific person, which would tend to steer me towards a very materialistic (and even nihilistic) view of creation, but a number of personal experiences have left me with the belief that consciousness exists beyond physical limitations. I have the idea that its nature might be similar to the way we now understand energy interacts with the Higgs field to give particles mass. This could mean there’s a single universal consciousness that ours is just an interconnected part of, and this is where Dharmic religions chime a bit more with me. I have no idea what its purpose or implications might be, but my attempt to rationalise spirituality is an interesting distraction to occupy me while I attempt to navigate this meaningless existence.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 5, 2022 10:42:12 GMT
Those people aren't ready for it yet. It shows clearly in their questions, they have all the wrong perspective and a lot to learn. But in time it will come. It seems to me they only went to church by tradition. That’s true of most people, I suspect. Like most people of my age, I grew up a Christian. I went to C of E primary and secondary schools, attended church regularly for a year or two when I was a lad (even serving as an altar boy for a while), did well in my ‘O’ Level RE (there wasn’t much I didn’t know about the Synoptic Gospels), and even though I’d long since renounced the faith before I left school, I enjoyed studying religion, thanks mainly to an excellent teacher. I feel that I hold my atheist views from a reasonably well-informed position, unlike many God-fearing types, to whom the Bible might as well be an End User Licence Agreement – Just scroll to the bottom without reading it and click on ‘I Agree’. I’m quite a scientific person, which would tend to steer me towards a very materialistic (and even nihilistic) view of creation, but a number of personal experiences have left me with the belief that consciousness exists beyond physical limitations. I have the idea that its nature might be similar to the way we now understand energy interacts with the Higgs field to give particles mass. This could mean there’s a single universal consciousness that ours is just an interconnected part of, and this is where Dharmic religions chime a bit more with me. I have no idea what its purpose or implications might be, but my attempt to rationalise spirituality is an interesting distraction to occupy me while I attempt to navigate this meaningless existence. Quite a few years ago I recommended a book to Musik, through these pages, titled Beyond Biocentrism. The first half of it examines and explains aspects of quantum mechanics. The second half of it examines eastern philosophies and beliefs. In its words, it is about “rethinking time, space, consciousness and the illusion of death”. In view of what you’ve written above, I would recommend it to you (and anyone else who might be interested). I think you would find it an interesting read.
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Post by dexter97 on Dec 5, 2022 10:57:40 GMT
That’s true of most people, I suspect. Like most people of my age, I grew up a Christian. I went to C of E primary and secondary schools, attended church regularly for a year or two when I was a lad (even serving as an altar boy for a while), did well in my ‘O’ Level RE (there wasn’t much I didn’t know about the Synoptic Gospels), and even though I’d long since renounced the faith before I left school, I enjoyed studying religion, thanks mainly to an excellent teacher. I feel that I hold my atheist views from a reasonably well-informed position, unlike many God-fearing types, to whom the Bible might as well be an End User Licence Agreement – Just scroll to the bottom without reading it and click on ‘I Agree’. I’m quite a scientific person, which would tend to steer me towards a very materialistic (and even nihilistic) view of creation, but a number of personal experiences have left me with the belief that consciousness exists beyond physical limitations. I have the idea that its nature might be similar to the way we now understand energy interacts with the Higgs field to give particles mass. This could mean there’s a single universal consciousness that ours is just an interconnected part of, and this is where Dharmic religions chime a bit more with me. I have no idea what its purpose or implications might be, but my attempt to rationalise spirituality is an interesting distraction to occupy me while I attempt to navigate this meaningless existence. Quite a few years ago I recommended a book to Musik, through these pages, titled Beyond Biocentrism. The first half of it examines and explains aspects of quantum mechanics. The second half of it examines eastern philosophies and beliefs. In its words, it is about “rethinking time, space, consciousness and the illusion of death”. In view of what you’ve written above, I would recommend it to you (and anyone else who might be interested). I think you would find it an interesting read. I'll put it on my list for Santa.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 5, 2022 13:18:14 GMT
If death is an illusion does that mean we have always existed and will always do so? How does that explain the fact that there are billions more people on the planet now than previously? Where have all these new entities come from?
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Post by elystokie on Dec 5, 2022 13:56:23 GMT
If death is an illusion does that mean we have always existed and will always do so? How does that explain the fact that there are billions more people on the planet now than previously? Where have all these new entities come from? Ah, that's where musik's point number 2 comes in where he says all these lives he's lived haven't necessarily been as a human, "far from it"
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 5, 2022 14:25:53 GMT
Not so, musik. Following a religion is just a tool for those who for those who need a vehicle to see beyond normal existence. To get to the plane of existence where you seem to be, you don't need to follow any religion to do it. For many who follow a religion, they cannot follow that religion without they harm others who they believe don't follow in the 'true faith'. And in many cases, they will even harm others who follow their own faith but don't take the same route to get there. For examples, Protestant/Catholic: Sunni/Shia. Whatever, your views on reincarnation have certainly opened a Pandora's Box. I like it. To help you in your cause, my late wife once woke me up because I was having a dream and talking in my sleep in fluent Chinese. OS. Religion means reverance of the sacred or worship of God. You wrote "for many who follow a religion, they can't follow that religion without (doing) harm (to) others who they believe don't follow in the true faith". But if they do that, they aren't worshiping God. That's why I wrote "it stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others". And you wrote: "To get to the plane of existence, you don't need to follow any religion to do it". You must figure it out by yourself how to get the gift. It doesn't guarantee you will be a religious person just because you join an organized way to worship God, a certain -ism. On the contrary, seeking the truth is about going inside. So, to clarify, religious and religion is about reverance of the sacred. Therefore, harming others is a contradiction. Sorry music, but again I must disagree with you. The only creatures who have a religion are human beings and of all life on Earth, human beings are the most faulty ones. Religion is a faulty thesis and one invented by a virus-like entity. I would go as far as saying religion is more the tool of the Devil rather than that of an omnipotent creator, in whatever form it takes... if such a thing actually exists. Creationism; existentialism, and most 'isms' are fallible human illogical ideas. They don't represent reality as far as we know. That's why I'm an agnostic. The human brain is the most complex of organs. You have described what your brain thinks is your 'reality', but to most others, your way of thinking is completely alien to our species. As human beings, we should be logical in our thinking. It's why we've come to be the most powerful creature on this planet. Mathematics is logic but only really understood by the rarest of human beings. Einstein being the ultimate example of what sort of mind can lead us to genuine reality. But is the human brain fallible? A diet of hallucinogenic substances can change it from a logical entity into an illogical one that can open doors to a different type of existence. But that existence only exists within your mind and not in the real world. A dream can do the same thing. So, my serious question to you is, do you think you're a new type of Einstein who really does understand reality or have you been partaking of too much weed? OS. Ps. I'm enjoying this debate. Empty Kodac ink cartridge and a cup of tea.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 5, 2022 16:28:38 GMT
Religion means reverance of the sacred or worship of God. You wrote "for many who follow a religion, they can't follow that religion without (doing) harm (to) others who they believe don't follow in the true faith". But if they do that, they aren't worshiping God. That's why I wrote "it stops being a religion when those who follow it will do anything to harm others". And you wrote: "To get to the plane of existence, you don't need to follow any religion to do it". You must figure it out by yourself how to get the gift. It doesn't guarantee you will be a religious person just because you join an organized way to worship God, a certain -ism. On the contrary, seeking the truth is about going inside. So, to clarify, religious and religion is about reverance of the sacred. Therefore, harming others is a contradiction. Sorry music, but again I must disagree with you. The only creatures who have a religion are human beings and of all life on Earth, human beings are the most faulty ones. Religion is a faulty thesis and one invented by a virus-like entity. I would go as far as saying religion is more the tool of the Devil rather than that of an omnipotent creator, in whatever form it takes... if such a thing actually exists. Creationism; existentialism, and most 'isms' are fallible human illogical ideas. They don't represent reality as far as we know. That's why I'm an agnostic. The human brain is the most complex of organs. You have described what your brain thinks is your 'reality', but to most others, your way of thinking is completely alien to our species. As human beings, we should be logical in our thinking. It's why we've come to be the most powerful creature on this planet. Mathematics is logic but only really understood by the rarest of human beings. Einstein being the ultimate example of what sort of mind can lead us to genuine reality. But is the human brain fallible? A diet of hallucinogenic substances can change it from a logical entity into an illogical one that can open doors to a different type of existence. But that existence only exists within your mind and not in the real world. A dream can do the same thing. So, my serious question to you is, do you think you're a new type of Einstein who really does understand reality or have you been partaking of too much weed? OS. Ps. I'm enjoying this debate. Empty Kodac ink cartridge and a cup of tea. I largely agree with what you’ve written above, but…….. “ As human beings, we should be logical in our thinking. It's why we've come to be the most powerful creature on this planet.” The ability to use logic is only part of that. We also have an insatiable curiosity about our surroundings and the natural laws which govern us. Our species is continually testing and examining ‘what-ifs’ rather than continuing to do things the way we’ve always done them because we don’t have the imagination to, er, imagine any other way. Like you, though, I’m enjoying this thread as it is the kind of discussion which does allow you to explore and test your imagination.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 5, 2022 17:34:16 GMT
If death is an illusion does that mean we have always existed and will always do so? How does that explain the fact that there are billions more people on the planet now than previously? Where have all these new entities come from? Ah, that's where musik's point number 2 comes in where he says all these lives he's lived haven't necessarily been as a human, "far from it" I did consider that! For 3500 million years the majority of the planet was essentially barren, sterile, with life confined to shallow, warm seas in the form of simple, single celled bacteria. So, where did all this additional life come from that now covers the entirety of the earth?! Mathematically and biologically it just doesn't work if death is not the end of one individual...
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Post by elystokie on Dec 5, 2022 17:37:37 GMT
Ah, that's where musik's point number 2 comes in where he says all these lives he's lived haven't necessarily been as a human, "far from it" I did consider that! For 3500 million years the majority of the planet was essentially barren, sterile, with life confined to shallow, warm seas in the form of simple, single celled bacteria. So, where did all this additional life come from that now covers the entirety of the earth?! Mathematically and biologically it just doesn't work. I'm guessing you won't accept twins, triplets etc?
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